Good evening uh and welcome to the July recording in progress and welcome to the July 16th 2025 Yarmouth planning board meeting. I am Joan Crowley chair. The public is welcome to attend our meetings in person or via al alternative public access
provided on the town of Yarmouth website. Our meetings are generally held on Wednesdays the 1st and third of the month but additional meetings are added um as necessary. I will begin by call taking roll call. Susan Brida here. Deedra Gaguin
here. Will Rubenstein I'm here. Welcome Will. Jim Sabin Peter Slovak here. Ken Smith here. Joanne Crowley present. Um, seeing we have a quorum, I'll now call the meeting to order. And
uh, I would like to ask you to join us in the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and
justice for all. Thank you. Um the first item on our agenda uh are zoning amendments that uh we are um interested in perhaps uh moving forward for the special town meeting in
uh the fall. Um they are regarding retail sales of commercial fish and shellfish in residential zoning districts on-site boat storage and I guess additional RVs as well would be covered under that
right Kath recreational vehicles would be covered under that. Yes, but we're only talking about boats tonight. Yeah. And then also um our consideration as to where we might be going with um our uh ability for zoning
amendments regarding accessory dwelling units. Um I I see that the public is here. Some members of the public are here tonight and our building commissioner Mark Grills. Thank you Mark for joining us. Um I just want to do a quick overview about zoning amendments.
Um remember that the planning board considers um input from various members of the community. We we have two items on the agenda tonight. The third one on ADUs is one that has been legislated by the Commonwealth. So we're required to
address that at some point. But the two that are on the agenda tonight. So we go through this process. Tonight is the first time that we've seen some drafts. Um, and any members of the public tonight who are here who would like to comment on them, I'd welcome them uh to
uh share their opinions. We will have our own discussion about some options that Kathy and some of the attorneys involved with the with the um with the petitioners, if you will, not technically petitioners, but the people
of interest um have put forward. Um, but this is a one, this is like the second step in the process and there'll be more steps as we go along before it gets to a final determination as to what the zoning amendment change will actually look like. So, I'd like to start with um
the first one. Uh, Kathy, maybe you can run us through um retail sales of commercial fish, shellfish in residential zoning districts. Sure. I think you have in your packet and it's up there on the screen is we did get some good information from our May 7th meeting. Got a lot of productive
comments and we also got some additional information um from John Taly's attorney um Jonathan Paloney um with regard to some of the suggested amendments that he had. We did take a look at them. The first one had to do with um to allow
residential sale of fish and lobster um predating the 1982 zoning bylaw. Um this is somewhat problematic because there is still that question of whether selling from the home was ever allowed. Um so even before 1982. So we don't want to we don't want to try to solve a problem then not solve it. Um the second option
was to amend the B4 forestry fishing hunting use by adding note uh footnote 7 which indicates retail sales requires special permit. And I note that this may be the simplest and most direct option and that's the one that I I drafted up and had discussions with the building commissioner as well as town council.
The third one is really just adding a new category use category H3B for the sale of agricultural products and sale of fish and shellfish. That's really similar to to option B. Uh above. We also received some information from attorney Ari Baragle from the Institute of Justice and some of the uh comments
and proposed amendments that he had mentioned was to allow for the sale of freshly caught seafood from one's home as an accessory use with certain provisions. I outlined the definition of an accessory use is a use customarily incidental to and secondary to allowed use and not detrimental to the
neighborhood. And selling commercial um caught commercially caught seafood does not really appear to be a typical uh or customary in a residential neighborhood. The other the second option there is creating a new use category for the sale of freshly caught seafood consistent with the same permissions as a farmers
market. Um, this would be somewhat uh similar to the option C above where we' be adding a new use category. However, farmers markets are really for a collective of vendors to to sell something and it's um limited to town property and regulated by a select board policy. So, that didn't quite seem to
fit either. Um, and then the third option was mentioned was to modify I'm sorry to modify the home occupancy section to allow for retail sales signs and non-resident employees. um which would then of course allow for the sale of fish and shellfish in residential
neighborhoods. Um making these modifications to home occupation um is a little bit more encompassing I think than what we were thinking about uh to really solve the current problem at hand. And we do know from some of the um input that we received from the public for things like accessory apartments that people are already concerned about
the movement of commercial um endeavors into residential neighborhoods. So, in reviewing all of these um and talking with uh town council, as I mentioned, we came up with some draft amendments for consideration by the board. I'm just going to get to those so everyone can
see them. So, basically, this is the um the use table and just doing a modification to the use table. Um talking about adding retail sales for fishing, I kind of separated it out from forestry and hunting. We didn't necessarily want to add retail sale capabilities for that. We don't want someone starting to sell
trapped rabbits at their homes and that type of thing. So, there's a different category a B5 that's just for fishing and it includes allowing for the the note seven there for uh retail sales via special permit from and I modified note seven here to just clarify that it's
from the zoning board of appeals. Occasionally you guys are the um special permit granting authority but it's really the zoning board of appeals. And then in addition to any other applicable special requirements, individuals selling legally harvested or caught seafood, including but not limited to fish, shellfish, lobsters, and crabs
shall be in compliance with all applicable local, state, and federal regulations. They only sell what they have personally caught or harvested. And the seafood must be sold whole and not prepared or processed. I actually used some of the language from some of the attorneys in this. Um, they had talked specifically about selling it whole,
which I thought made a lot of sense to include in here. Um, the highlighted section has to do with signage. Um, I just put something in there for discussion purposes of limiting signage in residential zoning districts limited to one A-frame sign uh not to exceed six square feet in an area to be located on
the property during the hours of operation which shall be conditioned via the special permit. That's somewhat similar to what we allowed for food trucks where someone could have an A-frame sign out while they're open so people knew that they were kind of open for business at that time. I do know there was some con uh question of off-
premises signs, but if you allow it for one business, you're going to have to allow it for everybody. Uh, and to be fair, I think we want to um not not delve into off- premises signs at at this time. One other thing that got changed is I did notice that the seven uh special permit requirement was
included in the B1 and the B2 zoning districts for the B1 use, B2 use. Um, and they are already allowed by right. So, we don't want to create a special permit requirement for someone who could sell fish by right in a B uh B2 zoning district. That's what Mr. Tali is
actually doing right now on town own land. He's selling it retail. Um, and then I just added that one of the notes was that there really was in some of the documents that went to the zoning board of appeals was that there's really no definition for fishing in our zoning bylaw. So, we included catching,
harvesting, or taking a finfish, shellfish, lobsters, crabs, or other seafood from a natural habitat just to kind of identify what fishing uh entails. Okay. Um, members of the board, any uh questions or comments? U Miss Brida,
does anyone have an update on how successful the operation on Route 28 has been? Don't. Um, I've driven by I stopped in, right, and and spoke uh uh with the um Mr. Tali
and uh he seemed to be doing okay. The location seemed to be working for him at the point, but that was several weeks ago. So that's my only personal I've driven by several times on Fridays and it seemed to be very successful on a couple of Fridays. the cars were packed
down West Yamoth and you know the parking lot was full when when that um arrangement was set up. Was there a requirement that he report back to the town or how how was anyone going to follow up whether that was a successful uh engagement or not?
That was all done through the town administrator's office in the select board. So I'm not privy to that but probably not. my my understanding it was a temporary endeavor in order to accommodate this season so he didn't lose this season of sales and then while we were working on the zoning amendment
for the fall was there any discussion Kathy are you aware of when when this was set up that if it was successful it could be continued on that spot as opposed to don't know okay um is there any way you could follow up on that to see if in fact that was ever
contemplated that that may be that that the 28 arrangement may be made more permanent uh because it seemed very successful and of course the location is wonderful. Um I don't know if that was ever discussed but if you could just verify whether it
was ever discussed as maybe if it was successful would that be an accessible alternative to Mr. Tally. I can check on that. Yeah. Okay. And then um I just did a couple in terms of some of the language Kathy um as you know I'm always very concerned
about using adjectives freshly caught. How do you determine freshly caught and h and who's going to monitor that? Is that going to be under the special use permit? Um would the health I would assume the health department would have to have some sort of role in determining
whether there's sufficient ice or refrigeration or whatever is required to keep fish fresh. And then so that's on site, but the term freshly cut, how do you how's one going to monitor freshly cut. I know I they need to be inspected by the
health department to make sure that they're properly handling food product like any person selling fish. Um but I think a lot of times if it's becomes a particular issue, the town would get notified by somebody and then that would be something. He doesn't want to be selling fish. That's
No, I agree. I agree. And we certainly don't want people buying fish that makes them sick, right? Um, you know, if it goes bad. So, I just don't but it's things like that. I mean, it's freshly caught within 24 hours. I just don't know how we would interpret that. And I don't want to open up any
health situations where, you know, the the fisherman claim 48 hours is freshly caught and the town is saying no, it isn't. Um, so I don't know whether we should maybe discuss that a little bit further. What are you referring to here, Susan? It says freshly caught the sila. Freshly caught, freshly caught. How how is the
town and how we going to monitor that? Those are the recommendations from the attorney bargo. Right. So maybe he could maybe someone could answer that. That's not what we're looking at. We're looking at this on the page one of one. Um none of that language is in the amendment that we're looking at right now.
Right. But I thought you said you wanted general questions. I do. Okay. But what Kathy has done is is kind of sifted through the comments from two sets of attorneys. one who tried to, and we appreciate it, go through our actual zoning amendment and
do a red line, do inserts, do a bunch of different things. Um, and so she has presented her memo with the outline of where she recommends we go because some of the recommendations from the from both attorneys can't be really are not
doable. Um, and so the language freshly caught is not ours. It's not Kathy's. It's not the towns. It's what an attorney representing the um the Mr. Tally had put through. So that is not what we're
considering here. What we're considering are the the table, the change in the use table that Kathy has put together and the change in note 7. That's what we're looking at. So part of this and this is, you know, Kathy and I talked this
morning, this afternoon about this. We've got some really good information from both sets of from both attorneys and um what we're trying to do is make it work in terms of how the zoning bylaw works for us and the language and how
it's constructed kind of the the the way it would work best for us and the language and changes that both of the attorneys took Kathy molded them into this one change to the ta use table and note seven to make it really simple.
So that's what we're trying to do. We don't want to get into the language of the of the amendment, but the use table and the note are what we're really focusing on. Okay. So you're asking whether we support the note. What do we think about the use table? The draft. Yeah. Well, in general, I think doing
designer zoning changes is dangerous. Um I think it opens up Pandora's box for anyone that wants to have something at home that that is currently not allowed. So, as a as a public policy, I think they're dangerous. Um, and I'm not sure we even need it if in fact there's an alternative, if that Route 28, you know,
agreement worked out and we could even expand that to have other fishermen because this is my understanding based on the hearing that we had. Uh, Mr. Trolley is the only one in town that this would affect. Is that correct or did I misunderstand that at the night of the hearing? That that is what we were told. So, we're doing one zoning amendment for
one person. Um, and if we can take care of Mrs. Tallyy's concerns by the 28th situation if we could extend that maybe make it a little more permanent rather than maybe do something with an agreement with a report requirement or something in my opinion
way preferable than changing zoning particularly when you start talking about signage. If someone next to me was selling fish and had a five, you know, a big sign outside, I would not be happy about it. Um, so I think it's is a public policy. I think it's dangerous. I don't think it's necessary if we can
find an alternative and the town seemed to have done a good job with that 28 agreement. If that can be extended, if there's somehow that can be memorialized, that might be the solution. It was just a use of town owned land, right? Application, which anybody can do.
Um, it's on the Sha Lenor property, which we don't know whether that might be something the town decides to sell in a couple years. So, it's not necessarily a case where like where the farmers market is. That's that's a different that's land bank that will never be sold. That's part of the town's
inventory of land for forever, right? But he even said he was only going to be doing this for a few more years. So, that may be again that may be it may be a solution. I think it's a preferable solution than changing zoning. This almost looks like spot zoning in a way.
um because it is for one person for one particular problem when I think there may be another solution that is easier to implement and does not set a precedent. I'm concerned about the pre again the president setting nature. Um people are going to come forward and say I want to do this and it's not allowed.
You let Mr. Tally do it. Why can't I do it? Um so that's my opinion of Thank you. There we go. Um, I I I I didn't mean to interrupt, but I I think what's important for the agenda is that we just
focus on what Kathy has kind of prepared for us for us going forward. Um, and the the background from the other attorneys is important for us to have, but um what's in front of us for consideration tonight is this draft number one. and um
your you know your comments are are um are noted are well noted are well noted by Kathy uh other members of the board. Madam Chair, yes, Mr. The only thing I might um suggest is that it does say um have personally caught but maybe personally caught by
the homeowner. I mean there there was language in here from one of the attorneys that said something similar to that. Yes. Let me see what that says. Right. So we that's related to freshly caught seafood from one's home
that was down under the accessory uh use but what they have person sell what they have personally caught or harvested they caught it and they live there and they sell it there.
That's that's the okay otherwise you could have a lot of fishermen just going to one place. I wouldn't say homeowner because it might be a tenant. Um, so the resident of the home. Sure.
Yeah. Are any other comments from the board? Uh, I Madam Chair, may I may I may I ask a question? Uh, yes, Mr. Rubenstein. Thank you. Thanks. Thank you. You know, I forget sometimes because you're not sitting next to me
that, you know, people are up there on the big screen. It's all right. It's only for these very special times of year when I can't physically be there and I I wish I could be. Um, I think Miss Brad brought up some really good points. Is it possible given the reasonable question about how
things are going um is it possible that Mr. Tali or Mr. Taly's representatives are actually on the call and are you interested at this point in the process in hearing from them because that may clear up any confusion or doubt about how things are going which could lead to other conversations either tonight or in
the future. There are three people with their hands up. So, very good point, Will. Thank you, Madam Chair. And then after they speak, I would love the chance, depending on how that goes, to circle back to a couple things, but perhaps I won't need to after we hear what we hear. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Rubenstein. Um, so who have we got, Kath? I can't got some hands up. Jonathan, Paul, is it the lawyer? I was just unmuted. Oh, okay. Ar, welcome, Mr. Varel. Hi. Um, thank you all for for inviting my uh my participation. Um, yes, I can I
can speak a little bit about John's current situation and I'd like to make a couple of um comments about the proceeding discussion. So, John is able to sell lobsters in his temporary location. Um, the concern, as I think one member already mentioned, is that
this is a temporary location. It's not where he wants to be operating. Um, and it could be pulled out from under him at any given time because it's not his property and it's the property of the government. So, it's not even as though he has an agreement with a private landlord. Um, he he's in a in a situation with little to no leverage.
And so, the the idea would for would be for him to be able to continue operating as his home at his home as he's done for decades. Um, on the question of fresh, John typically uh if not exclusively sells live lobster. There's nothing more fresh than that. Um, and he has a track
record of decades of sales without any food born illness or anything like that. So, you know, I understand and appreciate the concern about food safety, but I just don't think it's something um that's present here. So, ultimately, John would like to be able to return to to sale on his property. Um it's as fresh as it gets. Um he would be
selling what he catches, what he is personally on the vessel for, which was some of the language that I suggested in my proposal that it be isolated to people who not only um harvest the fish, but who are on the vessel. So, there's no doubt about whether you're the participant um who's who's catching it.
Um but ultimately I think you know this is also an opportunity for um this body to um be more welcoming uh and adaptive when it comes to homebased businesses. Um I don't think we're opening the door here or we're suggesting that you open the door here for rampant homebased business use, but I think it would be a
a rather modest um modification to allow people to operate small businesses from their homes um if they're exclusively u you know conducted within the home and don't create nuisances for their neighbors. I would add a word of caution about signage. Um the US Supreme Court
has been pretty clear that to the extent that somebody is able to put a sign in their yard of certain dimensions, the government can't really regulate what that sign can say. And so I would just suggest to to this body before it pushes anything over to the city council um that it check see what what John might
be able to put in his front yard as a political sign for example and just make sure that um the signage restrictions are consistent with what he might be able to say on any other topic. Uh thank you Mr. Vle. Um any any
questions from the board? Uh I have one. Um, I just want to make sure I understood when you would when you mentioned a participant on the vessel. Yeah. So, Mr. Tally has two friends on the vessel
and they catch lobsters. Are we is is your suggestion that they can sell lobsters from their home? I don't think so. And I don't I don't think that's the way that um either our proposed language or um this body's proposed uh footnote would operate. I think what it would mean would be two
things. you have to be the homeowner um and you have to be the person who is on the vessel. So uh you know I I think between those two things that is pretty limiting. So your recommendation is that the person be the homeowner
and the vessel owner as well. You could e if you want to be more precise to limit it even more I guess to address your concern you could say the the owner yes of the vessel rather than just present on the vessel. Okay. Um, and so therefore, other
participants fishing on the vessel wouldn't have the same privileges, so to speak, as the owner of the vessel and owner of the home. That's right. I I think that would be unnecessarily narrow. I'm not I'm not aware of um I don't think it especially
likely that there's going to be an explosion of at home lobster sales uh in Yarmouth, but if that were what this body wanted to do, I think that is one way to to narrow it exclusively. I I I don't think that this is an instance of spot zoning. Um but I I do think that
that is one way to address the specific problem. Um but speaking in more general and broad terms, I think also is going to address this while also allowing people to do other harmless historically recognized things from their homes. I appreciate that. Thanks for the clarification. Yep.
Um any other questions for Mr. Vargo? Um Madam Chair? Um, yes. This is Jim Sabin. Oh, Jim Sabin. Welcome. You say present. I did say present, but I must have been muted.
Oh, I'm sorry. Welcome. I hope you're feeling okay. Uh, no, I'm not. Oh. Uh but anyway, um I'm pretty comfortable with with the the comments that have just been made and uh the fact that a special permit would be required
um probably gives a little bit more comfort to to those that are concerned with what their neighbors are doing. Um and and I appreciate that we've had some feedback from Mr. Tally's uh attorneys, and I'm assuming Mr. Tally has has participated in that conversation with
them. So, um, I'm pretty comfortable with the changes that that Kathy has has, uh, brought forward. Thank you. Um, and thanks for zooming in. We appreciate it calling in. Um, Mr. Rubenstein, do you have any comments? Madam Chair, there's one. Yes, Madam Chair, I just wanted to
mention that I agree. I I understand where Miss Brit is coming from about some of the health department concerns, but I think if I saw this correctly, the wording does say in note 7 shall be in compliance with all applicable local, state, and federal regulations. So I I
feel like that should cover us there and I hopefully would also make those town departments happy as well. Um and I agree with Mr. Sabin in general. I'm comfortable in the direction where this is headed. Can you just remind the group where we are in the timetable and when a
possible public hearing would be an official public hearing on these or I guess it would be all the amendments at the same time. Yes, Kathy. I I would think that we would have our um public hearing sometime in September in preparation for what is tentatively the November 17th.
It may get pushed a little bit. I think the local comprehensive plan is going to we're going to have to decide on that public hearing first and make sure that that's an issue um resolved and then we can have I don't want to do the two together. I'd like to have two separate meetings. Um so sometime um probably mid
September and or as early as early or as late as early October. But if we get resolved and we come to a comfortable that that would be great. We can do it. Right. That's the reason why I asked because we're now going because by the time we do have our our actual hearing um on the amendments, the official
public hearing, we'll have another couple of months worth of data and some feedback from maybe Mr. Bargle and Mr. Taly himself and we'll just know a lot more in a couple of months. But I do feel like we've got a really good uh platform to stand on moving forward. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Mr. Rubenstein.
Is there someone else? One more. One more. Hi. Uh Jonathan Paloney here. Thank you, Mr. Paloney. Um I just wanted to uh make a few comments as well. Um and might be rehashing some things that have already
been said, but I'll just kind of go through some of the things that came up for me. I think the first thing that I want to say is just to re-emphasize that this what you're what you're changing the zoning bylaw to do is to provide for a special permit hearing. Mhm.
And so I think there is um a process built in there that really addresses a lot of the questions that I hear coming up um in terms of just giving the zoning board or the planning board, whoever the special permit granting authority might
be, the ability to check um who is applying for this permit. um what their operation is going to be, how it's going to be conducted, what it's going to be for, that you have that
opportunity to vet all of that and set any necessary conditions that you want to set. Um and I think that is why this is exactly not spot zoning. Um it does potentially affect only one person. Um,
I think we're all kind of aware that John Tally may be the only person who is actually doing this kind of operation. Uh, but because it's broadly applicable because you're modifying the zoning for pretty much every zoning district except for the B1 and B2, uh,
where it's already allowed. Um, it's not just affecting John Tally's property. So that that's also kind of a built-in limitation because practically speaking, nobody's jumping at the gun to try and go out and sell lobsters or fish from
their home. It's probably unlikely that anybody really wants to do that because it's not a it's not a money-making venture. John's just been doing this as his livelihood for as long as he has and he would like to continue doing that. Um, so in terms of how things are going at the at the where he's selling fish
right now, I know John is there right now selling lobsters. Um, it seems to be going pretty well, but he would obviously prefer to be doing it at his house. That's where he has everything set up. Um, and it's much more
convenient for him to just operate from his house. And as you know, it's never been a problem in the neighborhood for anyone for that to be there. So, I mean, right now he has to cart things down in coolers and bring them to this other location in order to sell them there. I
think it's it's certainly added work for him to do that, but he's certainly happy that he's been able to have that opportunity. Um, so I think just in terms of the language for Footnote 7, I think you you have everything that you
need in there. um it might even go overboard a little bit where you know with the language where it's saying seafood has to be holed whole and not prepared or processed. I think a lot of that is already covered by state law if
not local and federal regulations. So you you know I think keeping things simple is sometimes better and like I said you have this special permit regime built into this process that really covers a lot. Um, so you probably you don't need to get super into the weeds
about uh whether this is who's on the boat and whether they're going to be able to sell fish because you're going to have already gone through that process before you grant the special permit. Um, one thing I did want to touch on though that I think is important is is the
signage. Um, and I I will keep it brief, but just practically speaking, if you have somebody like John selling from his home, he obviously needs to let people know that he's there. And so having a sign on his property,
um, I don't think is a problem. It's a pretty small sign. It could even just be one of those campaign signs that anybody can stick on their property just to let people know that that's where it is. Um, but I would ask you to consider some kind of
process for allowing an off- premises sign to be put out so that people know where to go. Um, and you see that for example with the farmers market. There's lots of signs around so that people know this is the day for the farmers market.
It's happening at this time. This is where you go. It lets people know go to the farmers market. And so for the same reason, it would be helpful to have signs to guide people that there are lobbers for sale here. Come this way and you can buy
a lobster. Um I think where again this is a special permit process that there are conditions that can go into through the special permit process. I mean, you could put language into footnote 7 limiting how many off- premises signs there would
be allowed or what size you would be allowed or you could just have that as part of the special permit process itself. Um, but I would just ask for some consideration around that because obviously if you're running a business,
you need to let people know that you're open for business. Um, and I think everything else, you know, really makes sense. I really appreciate the attention that you've put into this and trying to craft something. Um,
I think this really is significant. It it certainly helps John do what he wants to continue doing. Um, and I think he'll probably continue doing what he's doing until he retires. I can't say when that will be. Um, but the the work that
you're putting into this is definitely appreciated. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Paloney. Any questions for Mr. Paloney? Um, okay. Uh, any other questions from the board? Uh, couple of things. I'm I'm feeling like I we want to move this
forward and I want to try to have an amendment that is clean and simple and we appreciate Mr. Palon's comments, but I I I feel the ne I feel it
necessary for the board to have a brief discussion about off- premises signs now and make a determination now about how we feel about them. So, Mr. Paloni has asked that there be some change to um
Note 7 that would include some, you know, arbitrary number of off- premises signs for home occupation use. Um and I'd like to get the sense of the board as to whether or not we want to even consider having any kind of
language in note 7 with regard to that. So I'd like to start with Mr. Smith if I may. Sure, Madam Chair. Just a little clarification just irregardless to why we're here what we're talking about this zoning change. Didn't this whole issue truly start from a signage issue?
Yes, it did. I think that right there spells a lot of it out right said there. Mr. Slobec, I would not be in favor of off- premise science language in this. Miss Vera, definitely not in favor.
Miss Gwin, I don't think so. Okay. Um, and myself, uh, I I I think we should, um, uh, not consider some attempted language, um, on this. Um, I'm a seamstress. Um, and I
live at Madam Chair, I'm going to come back to you, Will. I haven't forgotten about you. Um uh and I I want to put up signs on station a I don't I don't mean to belittle this
but that's what it would come to I think in some ways. Um and so that's why off premises signs whether they're political or not size political size I think um is a step I think uh just a little bit too
far for us. Mr. Rubenstein. Oh thank you Madam Chair. That was actually Mr. Sabin then interrupted you just for the record. I'm sorry. It's okay. We're friends. We're friends. Oh, he won't he won't mind that I'm calling him out. Um I'm a little bit torn. Uh but I would imagine if we don't
include off- premises signage language in here, would it still be possible for Mr. Tali in this case to ask for one at his special permit hearing with the zoning board of appeals? Kathy, I don't think so. So, I think it would
be a variance, but yeah, it would be something unless you specifically say you it's it's open to special permit authorization. It would be viewed as a variance if it doesn't meet the off- premises sign section of 303. Got it. And that's why I'm bringing it up because, as you know, our friends in the zoning board of appeals deal with
signage all the time, whereas this body, I don't believe, often does except in these kinds of cases. So, part of me feels like if we have the process in place through the zoning board of appeals,
I wouldn't want to eliminate the possibility of that conversation with the zoning board of appeals by whatever we do with our own amendment. Am I making any sense here? You are, but it would be a request for a variance because there's no language. There's absent the language is absent in
the bylaw. So, therefore, you're asking for a variance, not a special permit. Okay. So in that case, Mr. Tally could still ask for an off- premises sign through the process that's already written into the bylaw. It just won't be permission for the sign won't be in the bylaw itself.
Mr. Tally can ask for whatever he wants, right? For the zoning, this doesn't have to be written into the actual note. No, no, no. Which is what we don't we we don't want. No, I get it. I I've heard I've heard everybody and I I'm just just trying to talk it out loud because this is one of the first times and I've been on the board almost five years where we've
gotten deep into signs. It just hasn't happened too much. A good point. A good point, Mr. S Mr. Sabin. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Madam Chair. Um I'm kind of a if it's good for the goose, it's good for the gander. And if we're not enforcing realtor signs at the end of
the street that says open house five blocks away or we're allowing the um farmers market to put signs out directing people from Forest Road all the way over to Old Main Street, then I'm having a hard time justifying
preventing someone such as Mr. Tully from being able to do something similar. So, I think that's that's the rub I have on it is that if we're allowing other people to do it, how can we tell him he can't? But not Thank you, Mr. Shaven. I I'd like to
recognize our building commissioner, Mark Grills. Um, and he would like to respond to this issue about signing. Uh, Madam Chair, members of the board, Mark Gills, building commissioner. The farmers market is allowed to have signs in accordance with this the board of selectman's sign policy for off- premise
signs and those are for nonprofits. So, they can apply through my office and indicate where they're going to put their signs and then it that gets approved through uh the town administrator's office. The real estate signs are allowed in accordance with our bylaw in in the temporary sign section
specifically. So, there's a few signs that are allowed. Real estate signs are one of them. Thank you. And did are the real estate signs the ones that are actually on the property? No. No, they can be off. They're off premise. Off- premise temporary signs. They they are allowed. They are allowed. Yes. Section
303.4.1.4.1. Off-remise real estate signs. Off open house signs may be displayed from 10 to 4 on Saturdays, Sundays, and holidays. All such signs must be placed on private property with permission of the owner. Only two such signs will be allowed to be displayed for any property
for sale or lease. Only one such sign will be allowed to be displayed on any one lot. Such signs which such signs will not exceed six square feet in area. No perimeter fee is required. Thank you, Mr. GS. Thanks for the clarification. Thank you.
Okay. Okay. Um I do think we have a sense from the board about on premises signs that we will not be um at this point uh amend you know in our draft two when we get there um including any um any provision
for off-remise signs at this point. Um again the as I mentioned at the beginning this goes through a process and we will have a public hearing and we'll have probably another meeting on this and as we hear the voices of the
public um that may change. uh we may be influenced to adjust that, but as of right now, the way we're interpreting our zoning bylaw seems to be uh one where off- premise signs for home occupations um home occupations
uh selling lobsters uh would be something that we're not uh going to consider right now. Um any other comments or questions on this? I wanted to know if any members of the public were here who wanted to talk about that or Ari has a stand up. Oh, okay. Arie,
hi. Thank you again. Yep. Thank you again. Um I I will say this this discussion comes up a lot in my experience. A lot of towns and localities nationwide um have sign codes that are um you know, frankly not quite
up to date with what the US Supreme Court has said about on premises and off- premises signage and commercial signage generally. Um, I I think it's probably wise to not include a a specific signage provision or language in the
footnote. Um, because I think what that would mean is that it would leave John subject to the more general um, off- premises sign code that the town has. Again, the big word of caution here is drawing distinctions between whether they're on premises or off- premises,
drawing distinctions between some signs and others. Um, the general rule of thumb when you're crafting these sign codes, which we help localities with all the time, and we have model language that I can I'm happy to send over. Um, but the general rule of thumb is that if you have to read the sign to determine
whether it is or is not permissible, that is probably an unconstitutional signage ordinance. Um, generally speaking, localities can regulate um, you know, size parameters, you know, where you can put them and whatnot. um but a an ordinance or system of
ordinances that would for example allow you to advertise an open house but not the sale of lobster or one type of business but not another um is is very likely unconstitutional under the first amendment. And I'm happy to supply some some helpful language to you all if you think that would be helpful as you
continue to work on this. Well, we appreciate your comments, Mr. Vargo. Um we we've lived with our signage um uh provisions in the zoning bylaw for um a a long time and we we we have not run into this u issue in the
past uh but we appreciate your uh opinion on this. Um again any other members of the public who would like to speak on this? Any members? Hi. Uh just Jonathan Pony I'm going to make one last brief comment. Uh thank you Madam Chair. So just I
wanted to clarify I think from Will's comment uh just wanted to clarify something about kind of the practicality of this and the reason why I think it could be helpful to include some language in footnote 7 to allow the special permit process to include an
evaluation of off- premises signs. I I've indicated that for business it it may be helpful to have an off- premises sign. If you disagree with that, that's totally fine. But I I just want to be clear that relying on someone to apply
for a variance is going to be very hard to get. In fact, too bad. That was the process that John went through at the very beginning to try and legalize his operation and as you know, it was denied. So var variances are by definition very hard to get and uh to
actually regulate it, it would make sense to have that in the special permit process and in order to do that put it into footnote 7 specifically just to say any evaluation of off premises signs shall be done through the special permit
process. I mean it could be that general. Mhm. Um but just to create that process like Bill was talking about so that the zoning board could actually evaluate it and put conditions on it however they see fit. Um and and you don't have to
grant special permisits either. So it's not that just because you can apply for one that the zoning board has to grant you an off- premises sign. Um, but they would be able to evaluate the characteristics, the operation, and
whether or not it's going to be a detriment. So, I I will just put that out there and um happy to see how this process unfolds. Thank you. Again, Mr. Pony, we appreciate your your your um opinion on this. Um the town of
Yarmmouth has a zoning bylaws that have been in existence for a while and off- premises signage ex with the exception of a couple of um noted uh uh uh particular commercial uh uses particularly real estate um is not
something the town apparently has been fond of and our zoning bylaw reflects that. Um, and I really would like not to have this small issue that we're trying to help a per literally a person and hopefully there may be other lobster men
in town figure out how we might be able to put forward to the town meeting a proposal so that he may continue his work. If you want to if if you and your client want to muck it up, excuse me, with signage,
it will it will definitely not go anywhere. Um, so I would recommend we keep it clean and simple. It's about home occupation and use of the property for selling lobsters. Um, that's where
we are. And if if the signage issue, uh, which is what got as Mr. Smith mentioned, which is what unfortunately triggered this, that um that uh the signage on 28 was not was not allowed. I would I would prefer not to um cloud
this issue and make it more difficult for us to do our job to try to help Mr. Toli by including any language with regard to off- premises signage. And I think you've heard most of the members of the board, Mr. save and I think I might disagree a little bit but I think
most members of the board uh think that this should not be an issue connected to this particular amendment and I I I hope members of the board are okay with what I just said Mr. Rubenstein you're okay
I'm okay in the sense that I also think Mr. Paloni has a point. Um, but I also I Yeah, I I don't I I'm struggling cuz I'm a business owner myself and I'm trying to imagine
uh running a business and not having some of the very basic blocking and tackling that I would want to be able to have in order to run that business. Um, but also I understand why there's very few exceptions as Mr. grills already
discussed in our zoning bylaw for off- premises signs. So, I guess what I'm saying, Madam Chair, is I'm squarely stuck in the middle, but I also recognize that I'm in the minority when it comes to the overall sentiment of the board. Thank you. All right. Thank you, Madam Chair. Jim Sabin. Yeah, Mr. Sabin.
Uh, never mind what Will said. Thank you. Okay. All right. So, I think we've reviewed this. Are we good, Kath, on this one? Yes. It sounds like I will look into adding language about owner of the
vessel and by resident of the property. I um how would are there on other home occupations? Can a tenant be a seamstress? And Mr. Grills, I can see you nodding. So it you
don't need to own the property to I don't want to be limited to the home owner. Or maybe you do, but I don't think you do. Um, you want it to be the resident, the person who's living there, that's their residence and they're living there lawfully and they don't have to be on the deed. Right. Okay. Right. Okay. All right.
So, I can give that a try for next time. Great. Uh, any any other comments for Kath? Okay. Um, let's go on to the next one, which is uh boat storage. Ay, you want to walk us through a little
bit on that? find the language. We've had a lot of um we appreciate again Mr. Grills is here to help us with this. He's definitely the expert in the bylaw. He's in it every single day. Um we've
had a lot of talks about on-site boat storage since 2018. Actually, I tried to do a little bit of a summary here of the um the draft article that went before the we mentioned this on May 7th. It's in the memo. and um and then also talking about what
what Mark had originally discussed which was on a paved surface on a registered trailer and then trying to kind of combine that with some of the comments that I had heard at the May 7th meeting with regard to length of the um length of the boat on a on a trailer and
whether we wanted to keep it on at some type of hardened surface or leave or the driveway. It seems like in talking to Mark that the most of the people are doing it um parking it in their driveway in their are parking it in their in their
driveway. Um so so I proposed some language here, multiple options. One of them is just to include a length and arbitrarily Mark and I were looking on online and came up with 28 feet. It's highlighted in yellow for obvious discussion purposes. We did add the registered trailer. Um, and then we did
uh add back in in the drive in the driveway up. Joanne had a very interesting comment this to when we talked today about she reading this she's under the impression that you still couldn't store at any time a boat behind the front face of your building
and I don't think that's the case. You could do that but this is the exception to also allow for something in addition. So I think maybe we might want to do a little clarification on that. So it says if camping or recreational equipment, the definition of recreational equipment includes boats, but maybe we want to specifically include boats so people
understand. You can always continue to do what you're doing today is storing your boat behind the front face and you can do it all year long. Um this is just saying, you know, we want to provide another option for people as a coastal community have their boat. Could I could I ask clarification? Yeah,
sure. Does that mean two boats could be stored on one lot? one in Beck and then one in the Yes, that's okay. So, so we're expanding by 100% the opportunity to park a boat on on a in a residential neighborhood. Well, that's
either either right now they can do but this would expand it by they could do two correct mark under this if we Mr. Grills. Yeah. Are you reading that's because that's how I'm reading it. They have the right let's get a clarification here. We're we're looking at the on page what have
we got page two of three. the draft 2019 article and Kathy has put in uh um in italicized language um a change there. So this is what I'm looking at. Is this are we looking at the same thing? go to the actual amendment
that's that's keep going. It's like uh page two right right here because I I was confused on this as well. the the the language in that number two under boat storage, the draft
article that we looked at in 2019, um the language that existed was the regular language and then we added italicized language and it didn't it did not pass the uh board of selectment. Um
so that's what we went forward with in 2019 that total paragraph. Okay. So that if you had recreate, you know, a boat, um I believe it was only one boat on the property, but Mark, I would appreciate your your your comments
on this. Madam Chair, there are people that own several boats and they're right now if they're parked behind the front line of the house. If they have one in the backyard and one on each side, we don't care as long as they're registered to them. If they're registered to other people, then it looks like a boat storage yard and you know, then we might
write a violation. But today's um boat the today's bylaw section 401 um I just lost it. I had it um says nothing about the number of boats you can store. But what the additional um language says is that if you also have a boat that you want to store in your driveway, you can
store that boat in the driveway as long as all the other boats comply with the bylaw, meaning behind the front line of the property. So you could store more than two more than one on Yeah, you can today. As long as they're registered to you. Today it's in it's got to be it's behind the front line. The new would allow multiples multiple boats
allow one boat in the driveway and one in Okay, correct. So you could actually if you could you could actually have if you have a big house you could have two in back and one in the driveway. So you would basically have three. Yeah. The majority of these are small properties that they don't have a lot of room. They can't cut down the trees
beside their house allowed. That would be if it's not if the two votes as you say are in back of the and you could put this would allow them to put a third one in the driveway. Correct. Okay, enough said. No, no, good clarification. Um,
the question would be with registered. It doesn't say to whom it needs to be registered. It could be his buddy that lives in which which happens frequently. I'm sure Mark is aware of that that he's he right. So I I think there it's not very often that we get multiple boats on a property, but you know when
we do, we ask for the right drive through my neighborhood. Yeah. Um what it's too busy. What I'd like to do, Cath Kathy, I think I jumped ahead of you here. Can you just run through quickly your memo and you kind of bring us back to
the future, bring us back to the past rather? Um, and then reminding us where Mr. Grills was with us when we were trying to get the draft article in 2019. And now you've got a couple of options for us, right? Starting on page two of three and three of three.
Yes. Yeah. So, the the first one is is simple, adding the addition and including the length in the registered trailer and identifying it in the driveway. I know that when we were talking about accessory apartments, we were concerned that people would be parking it in the grass on the front of
their house and all of those types of things. Um, and the second option came out of the the comments that we received from the select board back in 2019 where they were concerned that they would have all year long you'd have a storage of a shrink wrapped boat in someone's
driveway and that what did that look like? So, this second one is basically saying um you can have your boat boat in the driveway only from April 1st to November 1st. That still means you can store it year, you know, in the winter or whatever in the back of the behind
the front face of your building. But this is just saying that when you're using your boat all the time in and out, in and out in and out during the active boating season, you can have it in your driveway. What does what is what does adequate on-site parking there mean? How are we going to determine what's adequate?
If the people are parking in the road, then they don't have adequate parking on their property. All right. And and driveway, does it need to be paved? I'm looking I'm I'm interested in the second one here where it limits it to the seasonal use, but does the um in the driveway, does it need to be paved? There was a lot of It's your call.
Okay. Yeah. Could you What did you say, Mark? That's your call. Whether or not it's paved. So, we're silent on that at this point. The way it's written. Yeah. So, so paved means asphalt imper It could be concrete, but
could be concrete. Could it be crushed stone? Could be a prepared surface, not not your lawn. So, prepared surface, crushed gravel, you know, anything like that. But I put something in writing back whenever I wrote that um just to give something to start with. So,
Madam Chair, yes, Mr. Sabin, good evening again. Just a couple of quick comments. Um, I don't think we need to concern ourselves about, you know, property owners starting to start their own little marinas. The average
person probably has a, you know, 27 foot boat and maybe a dinghy to service that. They don't have, you know, three 27 foot boats. We're not we're not Newport, Rhode Island. We're Yarm. Most people can't afford that many boats. So, it's not likely that we're going to have an
issue of of overparking of boats. Um, the second thing is with regards to the issue of parking uh in the driveway or a hard surface. Often I think if you drive through the community, you'll see that somebody may have their their boat
parked in their driveway in front of their garage but have adequate space next to that where they may park it in the winter months when they're not using it. So I think you know keeping in mind that there are alternatives to be in you
know making somebody pour a new driveway just to park that second vehicle might be a little bit ownorous and uh you know as long as there are other options from putting the vehicle uh or the boat vehicle meaning recreational vehicle um
in front of the and restricting access to the home. I don't think we need to start saying it has to have a paved parking spot or anything like that. That's my opinion. Yeah. So, Mr. Sab, if I may ask, um,
with regard to the two draft options that Kathy has written, what what changes would you are you suggesting there? Let me get it back in front of me if you bear with me one quick second.
Uh, Somehow I've gone to seafood. I don't want to be a seafood. So I don't think we need to restrict seasonal. I mean most people I mean keep in mind we no longer have um you know dry dock marine for people to park their
boats. So you know if we start saying people you can't park a boat in your yard in the winter months, where are we going to let them put them? Um, that's that's that's a huge issue. You know, um, there's probably 50 60 boats that got
parked at at, you know, dry dock that that will now have to find new homes. Many of the Yarmouth residents. So, if we start restricting them from putting them in the in their yards in the winter months, we're causing chaos in the boating community.
There's a new boat place going into dry dock, so they're going to be reopening, right? Okay. I'm not aware of that. That's good then. But um may madam chair, may I? Yes, Mr. Gross. The I guess where this starts is that
the majority of people can put their boat or their RV beside their house. They just weren't aware of the bylaw. So, when we notify them, they just move it. There are some instances with small properties, people have small properties or where their house is located on the property, they can't they just can't fit
the boat in there without encroaching on their neighbors property. So this doesn't affect a huge number of people in town. They can't place the boats there, but it does affect some. So it's not like it's not like everywhere in town everybody needs to store their boat, but
it gives them an option to do that. Sometimes, surprisingly enough, um people can't back their boats up. So they have a circular driveway and they drive into the circular driveway and they can't back it up beside their house. They'd probably ruin their boat. So, you know, we've we've run into
instances where they put in a circular driveway so they could drive their boat straight through the driveway. Um, you know, I feel for the person, but, you know, some some backup lessons might be in order, but um you know, it's these are just a couple of instances that we've had, but the majority of people do
move their boats. So, um comments from the board and questions for Mark uh and or Kathy. I'm in favor of the seasonal uh restriction. I think that does or will help when eliminate the shrink wrapage
the the having something like that sit year round shrink wrapped because some will out in your your front buffer area in that driveway so you can't see down the end of your street you walk out of your house fire trucks or fire you know whatever is you know I think you need if this if somebody truly
is a boater and they're going to be using it then it should be maybe limited to seasonal could but I Mean they can it can be shrink wrapped if it follows what's existing meaning behind the front line of the house. Right. That's right.
Um and so even if the house is 10t off the street, they can still have a shrink wrap boat 10t off the street. Right beside their house. Yes. As long as they're be behind. Okay.
Um Okay. Um, Sus, Miss Bura, the um the boats and the trailers, what about language that says it must be owned by the people that own the house because, as you know, many people will rent out a spot on their driveway to let someone else park their boat there.
I'm not aware of that, but I'm sure it's possible. It happens all the time. Um, should we add language or would you would you recommend that we add language that said the boat all boats on premises have got to be owned by the owner of the house or somehow have an ownership provision to the res.
Pardon me. Then you get back to people who might be renting. Yeah. Occupant of the dwelling. Same thing. So it covers everybody. So someone could rent a house all summer. Mhm. store two boats on the property,
one regular and then a second one under this and the second one in the driveway could be rented to someone that lives in Plymouth unless they live there. But how are you going to monitor that the dwelling? Yeah. But how are you going to how are you going to monitor that when somebody complains? Can you check registration mark of a
boat to I can call DNR? They'll do it for me. Okay. But the only way we would know something like that comes up grills is if a neighbor calls it report. Correct. And so that's how it works. I mean, um,
Madam Chair, Mr. Smith, Jim has his hand up again. I I'm in favor just real quick. I'm in favor of the seasonal draft. Seasonal second. Okay. I I also like the seasonal limit.
Uh, Mr. Rubenstein. I don't I don't know. I'm I'm not trying to be the contrarian tonight, but I I as someone who doesn't have a boat, I'm trying to put myself in their in in the shoes of someone who does. And for the
town to to to limit my ability to store my boat, I don't know. I I I guess we'll hear more at the hearing if we do put this proposed language in for the seasonal restriction. we'll probably hear loud and clear one way or the other about whether this is a good thing or
not. So, I guess I'm going to defer until we have our public hearing. Um, and also I would like to though throw ask just real quickly of Mr. Grills what his thought is on the seasonal restriction and and its enforcement issues if any. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Mr. GS, the people that store their boat um and they're in Florida, they have a hard time moving their boat from Florida. So we find a lot of those that they stored their boat in the improper place and they have to find someone to move the boat for them. So it doesn't matter to me either way, however you want to
however you want to do this. But again, we a lot of these just come through complaint. Okay. And the people they can still store their boat. Um to Will's what the point Will's making, we're not telling them they can't store the boat. It just has to be behind the house in the middle of winter, not shrink wrap. In fact, we're set.
We're expanding their ability to store boats because there are no setbacks. No, that is that is all true, Peter. And and I guess we'll hear definitively when we have our public hearing. You know, if this is actually a big deal and I'm overthinking it. Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll Mr. Sabin.
Uh again, what Will said, um I think when we get to the point of having this discussion with the community at large, that'll be something that'll be vetted out. I I personally don't see an issue with having a vehicle or or an boat shrink wrapped uh for a few
months during the winter months. Uh particular if there's no other alternative for people. Um my second question is one of which how does the corner lot apply uh coming into mind? There's a particular sailboat that's been shrink wrapped uh over off of Wood
Road and Forest Road that's been shrink wrapped for years. And I'm trying to decide where does the front lot line apply for something like that? Is it the the street address or is it the side? How do you decide what's the front?
The front is defined in the zoning bylaw in section 401. Um the the rear or the front line of the building. not it doesn't define a lot. It's the front line of the building. So if you have a corner lot and you place it on the side of the of the building, even though it
may be a front, it's still beside behind the front line of the building. That's how it's always been interpreted through my office. Got it. Just for general purpose. And that clearly conforms to that particular vote that I'm referring to conforms to what you're indicating. U but I was just
kind of wondering where you picked that front low. But again, I I think we'll just have to wait till we have more comment from the public with regards to shrink wrapping your your boats over the winter. That's all.
Any other comments from Do you anything? Uh uh Susan. Okay. Can I just ask one final question? This is sort of a retro question. Um remind me again why we are doing this. Was this this the incident of the gentleman that had the circular driveway?
And why why why are we contemplating this? What was the issue that we were trying to solve? I forget what what brought this to our attention. Madam Chair, I believe there was issues with people that didn't have the room on a smaller lot to store their boat behind their house. That's where I believe this issue came up from.
And they wanted to be able to store it in the driveway. That is correct. Okay. Right. Um and we had we had wanted to move forward with this before, right? Um and uh uh we had received, you know, public
approval on it and the board of selectman at the time had a different opinion. Um I've got a a couple of questions. Um with um all due respect, I am a boat owner, as is Mr. Sabin, I
know. Um couple of things. One, um my boat is stored not on a trailer because I don't own a trailer. It's on uh blocks. Um and so ship shops comes in and puts it on jacks and shrink wraps
it. It's all set in my driveway behind the house. Um limiting it to so that under the current bylaw, I'm fine. should I have a need to put it in a
different place. Um, and it's not behind the front of my house. Um, why would we want to limit it to being on a trailer? uh blocks are, you know, there's
actually because it's mobile and they're if you have it on a trailer, it's not going to be a really big boat. You know, if they're on if they're on, you know, on stilts, they're they're usually larger boats. And so I was trying to get it to this board and
eventually to town meeting, something that could be, you know, easily voted on. All right, we're not going to have a yacht parked out on my front lawn. You know, we're looking at boats on trailers that can be easily relocated. Um, and provided it's registered and the trailer is registered because you, you know, we also have our,
you know, we've had a few complaints about junk boats. They're just junk. They just sit there, fill up with water, and they become me mosquito breeders. So, you know, these are all things that we deal with on a regular basis. I I do have concerns of I do have Mine is just a little 18-footer, right?
Um, and I don't own a trailer and it's on jack stands. Well, again, that's a discussion for you guys and presents. I'm just saying from my perspective, I think, right, having that additional restriction of being on a registered trailer might not
necessarily be necessary because there there are all sorts of limitations as to what how big a boat you can have in the first place to park in your driveway. Um, you're not going to have a 40 foot Viking in your driveway, but maybe some people do. Um, uh, not me. Uh um and the
other the other question I had was regard to the length. Um right now there is no restriction on length. Um as long as you are behind the front line of your of your property. Um and I I'm wondering why why we want
to to to have a number there 28 ft. The thought process was that a a smaller boat could be towed by a personal vehicle, a pickup truck. You wouldn't have to call a semi in to relocate your, you know, 40 foot vessel. Um, and that was the thought behind that. You can
have no number there for, you know, I just need language in the bylaw to address this. That's all for you to for you to me. It doesn't matter. Yeah, I I I know, Mark. I know. I'm sure. Yes, m Mr. Mr. I think I think when you get to the Viking and the 40 and the 45
foot, your boat is now 20t tall, you know, or 25 ft tall. I mean, I have my neighbor has more than that that rises well above the top of my fence and block the sun during the winter at sometimes. So, you put that now in a driveway out front
and that's going that's quite a sight, I think. So, I think good good point. You're absolutely right. Uh, by the time you take Yeah, Mr. Sen, might I weigh in again, please? Yes, please. Um, I I don't have so much of an issue with with with length. Um, I will speak
from my own personal experience of having a simple 27 foot cattle in a sailboat that does not go on a trailer that must be moved by a moving company. Dry Dock would pick it up every year and put it on stansions in my yard. um
because that's the way you store a 27 foot sailboat and not on a trailer. So by requiring trailers, similar boats to that 28 and and if you look around in the fleets, they're typically, you know, 30 ft or less um
for sailboats, but sailboats are not typically transported on trailers. So, I think that's something we need to take a serious look at because if we restrict it to sailor uh trailers, then you're restricting sailors because we don't use trailers.
I I I have to share with you, Mr. Sabin, my own experience as well, uh as the owner of a 31T sailboat that was um more stored in my driveway. Um and uh it it
um it it had to come in, you know, by dry dock and then it's on on blocks um and stansions. Um and with uh again with Mr. Slovak's comment, I mean, when you get a sailboat, you're going to have a
five-ft keel or a 4ft keel, then you're going to have the boat. You won't necessarily have the mast, but it's going to be big. I mean, it's it sailboats in particular are not going to be they're going to be different than a than a than a than a than a um a
motorboat. Um and visually, I don't know how you you know how we can um have an amendment that takes all of that into consideration, but we'll hear from the public and we'll see what they say. But sailboat storage and motorboat
storage are I think two different um two different looks. Do we have any idea? I think we also have a discussion with regards to length. I think that's one if I understand Peter's concern. And if you're putting a 42 foot yacht in your yard, then that's a little bit different than a 30 foot. So, so I think maybe a
discussion with regards to length restrictions might be also appropriate. Right. Um for for anything in front of the front line of the house. Correct. Right. Right. Okay. Yep. Um, so if I'm hearing you, Jim, the um the 28 foot
length in for this exception is okay with you. I think it's open for discussion. I 28's a good start. I don't know if 32 is a better number or or 22 is a better number, but I think that's a good start. Okay. Um
or nothing, Madam Chair. Or nothing. Or nothing. Or nothing. Yeah, I think there should be some I mean I think that's just the the length as a as a whole is a discussion to for us to figure out.
I don't have a preference on on length. Um well that I guess that's my that's that's my question. Do we want do we want to be neutral on this and leave it open and let the public tell us what they think an appropriate length is? Um,
or do we do we want to start have a starting point where we have a we have a fixed number? I think it's easy to have a fixed number because then they have something to comment on as opposed to the lottery where you throw it out and get 53 answers and then how do you figure out which is the right one.
Well, you figure you're never going to figure out which is the right one. Whether we write the right number here that we believe and the public thinks something completely different. You know, I think we're getting hung up on semantics here. I think the bottom line is we we know we
need to have a public hearing. I think I think the direction we're going is the right direction, but I think we should hear what the public has to say. Okay. Um and if I heard everyone um Mr. Smith, do you um uh option number two was one with the um seasonal
restriction? No. Um I I just think that the again um I'm wondering if you would consider the registered trailer issue. I'd like to be silent on that if we could, but um that's just where I'm going. I'm
trying to get a sense of consensus to give Kathy something to walk away with. Madam Chair, I don't have an issue at all with the registered trailer. I agree with you that there's I've owned several boats at a time and had boats on trailers and boats on blocks that I was working on. They were all behind the
house. Um so I understand the issues here. My only issue with the seasonal portion of it was I do have a problem leaving a shrink wrap boat sitting in the front driveway all year long. So my how we write it so that that boat is in
use and being used and parked accessibly in the driveway. So it's a quick haul down to the dock. That's how I interpret this whole thing. How we write that. I think we have to mash a lot of stuff together to make it work. That was my only reason that I agreed with Peter on the seasonal aspect. You know, I I
trailered my boats all over Cape Cod. And when you're trying to maneuver boats around boats, it's a pain in the neck, and I'd be the first to say it, but I also tried to respect my neighbors, too, and not have the boat sitting in the driveway all all winter long or all or for that matter all summer long, shrink
wrap, because I used to shrink wrap it myself. So, yeah. Okay, Madam Chair. Yes. I guess I would say if you're going to talk with the restriction, I think the maximum length in the registered trailer is less important because it's exactly what Ken's saying. They're going to park it there because they're going to be using it all the time. So, it's
going to be movable. Um, and I think, you know, we talk about sailboats and all of those things. They can still do it behind the face of the building is do you want a bunch of boats, you know, like a big sailboat in the front. So, we have we have something. So, what are we trying to give the extra for? And I
think it mostly is for trailered motorboats for people who going back and forth to the for people to enjoy their boat. That's that's what it's for. So Kathy, you're saying we I think was the point you were making and it it should be registered to the homeowner or to the occupant. To the occupant,
right? Yeah. Because I think I think otherwise you're going to open yourself. I mean, this will increase somewhere along the line the number of boats that are going to come into neighborhoods. Yes, it will. It'll make it easier. You can double it. You can maybe someone should create an app where you can start renting your driveway out for boat storage. So
Susan said um that exists for pools so might as well exist for boats too. So um so I think it needs to be limited to the homeowner registered to that document. Ya. Y um how does how does uh given the
discussion about size, how does KL Williams uh Kyle Lewis's um Lawson's memo fit? Are we do we have to be concerned about this gallon issue? Um it's okay. No, that's for the creation of boat storage um lots, you know, for for big
boat storage places in ADUs in particular. They have a hard time doing it. So, okay. I I wish there was and I'm going on here, but I wish there was a way we could make this more likely to happen for somebody for a developer to be able to store boats.
Actually, our bylaw references 310 CMR that law that he references and that's that's a um a storm water management law. It's it's out of our hands. So, the state it's in the state's purview. It's allowed by special permit in the B2 zoning district.
Right. So, so the the ones that exist in B3, I know um dry dock was pre-existing nonforming because it came over from station A. So that existed for a long time, but how about down off of Corporation Road? Big Wave Craig is down there. Is that all special permit? And yes, they went through the process.
All right. So it is possible the special permit and the process they went through and I think it was like 2004 or five. Is that still available to somebody else today? Well, the process is still available, but I think the 310 CMR changed was modified to make that more restrictive. So, um, we went through
this years ago on Corporation Road. There were a couple of lots down there that have boats on them that's not supposed to be there. They, you know, they had to pave it. They had to collect all their storm water. They had to have alarms. They had to have the the service of um staff member every day going out to the parking lot to make sure that
that there wasn't fuel because because the boats have to be stored full to meet fire department regulations. They want the boat stored 90% full, I think. Uh so there's no fumes because the fumes are more flammable than the fuel itself. So um there's there's a lot of regulations
when it comes to creating a boat a boat storage lot in the APD in the APD. Okay. But we have other options. We we could car Kathy, I know you said route 28 wasn't something maybe that we wanted to talk about. It's one of those things where I never really thought about it until the you
know you kind of asked the question and it is does say an F4 is special permit in the B2 zoning district. I think there's somewhere where the trampoline place was they had some boat storage there. It wasn't a lot but a lot of them stored in back of that and there was that was boat sales.
Sorry. Okay. Um, what do I do? It's where I am. Um, I uh I have a sense from the board that um your draft option number two is one that um most of the board uh feels might be the best one to put forward at this
point. Mhm. Um and we'll see where where the public uh where the public goes um with the length and the registered trailer or just a reference that it needs to be the boat needs to be registered to the occupant of the property. That's correct. So we're getting rid of length trailer
and just occupant registered. I like length. No, like length like length. Okay. Are we getting rid of registered trailer or are we getting rid of anything in this other or are we just adding registered to the occupant of the property? after the discussion we were talking about getting rid of the trailer
portion but just leaving it to the registered occupant. Yeah, I think again from my perspective um the the registered trailer just is an added um an added item that we could be silent
on. And the boat the boat's got to be on something whether it's movable or not. Um it's got to be on something. Um, and sometimes you can't you can't get your boat in by April 1, quite frankly here on Cape Cod. You just can't get it in.
Um, and we've mentioned dry dock a couple of times and dry dock um is a a company that comes and takes boats that are on stions and sometimes you can't get it in until May one. So the seasonality
time frame I I think is one that um is and and quite and at the end of it um again I'm being personal about this but you know my boat comes out of the water Thanksgiving time because November is a good month. So, I I again, we're going
to let the public, you know, help us determine what the best way is to put this, but my personal opinion, the the the range on the on the April 1 to November, personally, I think we could be more flexible with that. I also think we could be more flexible on whether or
not it's on a registered trailer or not, but I I'm more than willing to go forward with the way it's written now and see see what the public has to say. So, we're leaving in the trailer. That seems to be the sense of the board. So, we'll leave it in. Yeah. Can I Can I ask for a clarification? I think that's where the board is.
Okay. But the registered trailer requirement applies only to the second boat. Under the original zoning, you could have you could have your boat in the backyard on blocks and there'd be no problem. That's correct. Is that correct? That's correct. Okay. So, it's just a requirement to the for the second boat
for the boat in the driveway. Correct. In front of the in front of the building. Okay. Okay, Cat, do you have enough? I think so. It's pretty simple. Okay, great. Oh, the one thing that we did talk about um you and I talked about was um we're going to go before uh the
select board on August 12th to give them an update on the draft LCP, which we're going to be talking about in a little bit. But I'm wondering whether because they were so against what we had proposed previously, whether we would like to get some input from them before we get too far along in this process and maybe ask if we could just have a quick
uh agenda item after the LCP update to kind of talk about this just to give them an update where we are and see if they have any comments. I'd hate to get all the way through and then come up with the same exact problem that we had before. And there were two members of the board who voted against this currently still on the board. currently
on the board. The board of selectment, not the planning board, but the board of selection. I I think I'm the only one from the planning board from back then, 2018. Yeah, I think so. I was on zoning. So, not I Oh, maybe if you were on there was there were some comments from you, but
maybe it was from from us being on it was there. Here we go. So, you I can ask and see if we can be put on. I remember the comments, but I think I was on zoning at the time. You were on GDA before you came here. Yeah. I don't know if you wanted to let anyone from the public.
Yeah, I do. I do. Um, any members in the public are here. Thank you for um joining us this evening. If you'd like it to say anything, uh, Mr. Gity, right? Do I have it right? Gallagher. Sorry. I should know better. I'm Irish. Yes. You have to come to the podium, sir.
I'd like to come. Do you want me to go up here? Sure. You sit here or you can sit next to Mark. No, I want to thank you for your nice note. Oh, you're very welcome. Uh, we we rarely get thank you notes.
Yeah, appreciate it very much. First of all, thanks so much for uh having uh Officer Alvin Childs. I'm I'm not a resident. So, I want to make that clear for the record again. on the fourth on the 7th when we came uh here, Officer
Charles um who was a police officer in Brewster, he could not be here tonight. So, he uh thanks you for the attention you gave him regarding his boat uh in his driveway and um he's on duty tonight. So um I'm
here to continue the process and dialogue with all of you and uh we found it very very very positive. We were very very gracious. You listened and that's critical uh in our process of a
democracy. I know because I've been there. But I will say this um it was been painful. It's been painful for Mr. s in the process.
We are making great pro uh uh heading forward. We're looking at some very good things. We thank you for listening and the the amendments that we are presently looking at
seem very positive and we thank you for that. Mr. Charles is not trying to be an advocate for voters, but he has found himself and myself in that position, which we really
appreciate because the lack of transparency on the boating, whether you have it in your driveway or you don't, is very, very weak in this town. The enforcement was terrible. It's disgusting. But and he had to go through
that pain to represent the other voters who do not know do not know what the rules and laws are regarding a boat in your driveway. They just don't
know it. And we hope that will change in the future as we get some new language to move forward. So, thank you for that. We've gone over the to look at that um the recommendations
size 28 ft. I would say from my 60 years of boating on Cape Cod in the town of Barnstable that as I said at the last meeting that size of boat he has a 24 foot open open
we call a center console tetop probably the average boat you're going to see in a driveway other than maybe a you know another size boat on a trailer um in Barnstable I have had the privilege
to have a boat. I started boating when I was 10 years old. I'm 74 today. And my brother has a boat today. He has a 24-footer. Very similar. Again, T-top that kind of set very very popular. I think anyone
that knows boating, I would hope you sir would know that. Y I can't say the statistically that it's the average but I would say it's very close and what's happened is in our town
we have had no issue. So I hope the merit of what I'm saying and take me for my trust in my confidence and my understanding of voting. We've had no issue absolutely no issue
in the town of Barnsville to my knowledge of complaints. Now I can tell you personally on my street we have several boats in Hyennisport area where I came from in the summers. We had no issues. I'm in Centerville
now. We have boats. We had Alden's boat in our driveway for the winter because Yama said, "Get it out." So we did. We followed that rule after he was un unfairly punished.
And so the neighbors on our street, a survey as small as it is, did not complain about the shrink wrap in the driveway. The comments were positive, overwhelmingly
positive because they understand. Even people who don't own both would say that looks great. I had the same experience when we had a boat. And I had a 20 foot I had 24 foot Makeo. My
brother has a a 24 25 foot and his boat is in his driveway. He just put it in the other day because he they they were away. They were shrink about 40 years. Not one person complained about it. Matter of fact,
they said the shrink wrap is a beautiful thing because it's professionally done. It looks clean. And I can't I can't make someone none of us can say, "Hey, you like the boat or you don't." if they got a problem with a shrink wrap boat in a
driveway. I I don't know how to reason with that kind of thinking. That's beyond my I don't know how you how any of us approach someone. We we we appreciate your comments. What what's most important to us is the specific language we have here tonight.
Um and it sounds like you are okay with generally the size of the boat 28 ft. Yes. And that's where we want to go. I don't mean to cut you off. Um, but we really we have other um items on our agenda that we need to cover this
evening. We were so glad that you came at our last meeting. We understand your position. Um, and we're going to you'll be back again because this will be on our agenda again. So, we appreciate that. Thank you. Um, and as we go forward, just pay attention to our agendas as they come out.
Oh, we will. We thank you for that. We thank you for that. Just one final comment that Officer Child wanted you to know. If you're not aware, I'm sure the inspector must be aware of it. Hope he is, that there's a a a lot storage lot up down the road that's come down forest
and the one that Wendy's restaurant. What's that road? Old town. It's old townhouse, I believe. Has that been closed? That's the one we were talking about. It's been sold. I'm sorry if I couldn't hear everything. That's okay. But um it's been sold. What that does, so you know, I think you know the impact of that. You cannot get
a moing anymore. You cannot get if you can afford a slip in a marina. So all the economics that I mentioned back on the 7th, I hope you understand that all connected. We do. So we thank you for that. Appreciate that. We will keep in touch. Um
you go to the selectman on the 12th of August. We're going to be going to them to talk about the draft local comprehensive plan, but then we're going to ask them. Okay. Will that be the first meeting with them on the draft? Yes. Yes. Yes, it will. They typically don't take public comment, just so you know, except for
the first 15 minutes of their meeting. Mr. Luckman, don't have public comment in the first Except for the beginning. Except for the first 15 minutes of the meeting. 15 minutes. I just don't want you to think that you can talk at that time when you need to come. If I need to, you know, we're just
trying to have a a positive moving forward. I understand. We appreciate you coming to We really appreciate Thank you so much. We'll we'll keep keep the process going. U that's Mr. Ger his opinion um that he put in this I believe as he did in I
think the 8 2018. Yes. Did you put something in 2018? Yeah. I'm thanking you for that. And so on graph though I hope you'll take that seriously because I don't find it an issue. Thanks.
Okay. Thanks so much. Thank you Madam Chair. I just Mr. A fun fact, my um the owner of Dry Dock was a friend of mine and I I asked what percentage of his boats were Yarmouth residents and he said about 20%. So quite a bit less than somebody might might have
just 20%. Oh, you think about it. There aren't many storage yards elsewhere, right? And they they they're pretty big. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Um, one more uh zoning amendment. Kath,
no. The whole point is no. No. As much as I really wanted to get to that, there's just with all the planning studies and all the other activities we have going on. I'm not even going to pretend that I can get to it and it won't give us enough time to get the public understanding what's going on in it.
So, we'll we'll plan on that for annual meeting. Hopefully. Yeah. Maybe. Yeah. Maybe. Okay. Madam Chair, can I ask a quick question about that? I completely understand. Thank you, Madam Chair. I understand what what Kathy is saying. Can we since Mark is sitting in the room, maybe he can
help shed some light on this. What are the practical impacts of delaying an amendment to match up with the state? Are there practical impacts that we need to worry about or essentially not if we bring it up in 10 months?
We're I'm enforcing 760 CMR now. That's what I'm required to enforce. So, um I don't think that you could I don't think that you have the ability to regulate that through zoning, you know, and very, you know, can't be very restrictive when it comes to that law that they wrote.
So, um right now it doesn't it's not having any effect. I think I have eight applications that we've issued uh permit or we have six that we've issued, two that haven't been issued yet. I just provided a report to the state. um they want to know how many of these units
we've we've issued and how many we've not issued um since since the beginning of this law in February. So um it's pretty straightforward. It's not it's not super odd to enforce. And how many did you not issue? Mark two, but we're waiting on information.
Okay. So, and how many have you issued, Mark? I Six. Six. Thank you. One of them has occupancy. One of them has occupancy. Okay. Um, moving on to next item on the
agenda, the local comprehensive plan. C. Couple of things. Um, Cape Cod Commission has gotten back to us on what the initial dra um draft was. They haven't gotten back to us on capital yet. They did. Oh, they did. Okay.
They Yeah, it was on the draft LCP and capital information. Okay. Um, and then we're going to go through schedule meetings and then the final reports from our two consultants. Um, I think that the the email that she that
uh Chloe provided and Martha Heer provided um the first the email actually identified things that we need to make sure that we've included in some fashion for certification purposes and then they also attached um what they considered some suggestions of things that we might want to include within the document
itself. Um the the concern that they had is their LCP um regulations do require that we talk in some way about the Cape Cod place types in the growth policy. I think this is a case where um we can we can pro I've already talked to Jeff Bag
about this that we can um probably include something that talks about we're going to be protecting our natural areas which is the vast majority of us of our of the town of Yarmouth and that we want to be working towards converting Route 28 which is our suburban commercial more towards walkable villages uh activity
centers. uh and just kind of a couple sentences might be able to accommodate that. And then maybe when we'll get to the land use section, we'll actually include the place type map that they've generated. Um and then talk a little bit more explicit explicitly about it in in there. And I think that that would
probably cover it. They just need to make sure that we've talked about it in some fashion so that they can check it off. Um the the biggest issue was related to the targeted uh action plan and we can talk about that a little bit more uh in the implementation matrix. Um I had a separate meeting with them
because I wasn't quite clear on what they were trying to get at here and we talked about doing with the implementation matrix is just really kind of condensing um the action items. They don't need to be as detailed as we have them in the verbiage because that's really so people will fully understand what's going on. But by the time you get
to the matrix, we just want to give a general blurb of it and then start looking at time frames and looking at um uh funding resources and responsible parties. Um, and what what you have or you're looking at right now is what I kind of did for the natural systems. Uh, originally when I came up with the
action items, you know, a lot of them were just things that I wrote them down as they came to my mind, not necessarily trying to put them in any particular order. I tried to reorder them a little bit based on some of the things that I heard. It's hard because a lot of them are all important and it's hard to so they're not necessarily within a direct
one, two, three, four ranking because so many of them are so important or equally important, but I tried to put them into um an order that might make sense. You have um also in there uh you have the action items themselves. I didn't redline the changes because it would be
too confusing. But I did make a few minor changes to some of the some of the wording mainly related to the water um water supply because there was a lot of bullet items under that first number one that didn't really make sense to be under that bullet. So there's a few
modifications um that I made there. I tried to match the time frames to things like what we had in the capital um plan and also what we had um lots of them in the open space and recreation plan. had some time frames and also um the funding
sources for for that. So, I gave this section a try, a little homework for you guys to kind of take a look at, see if you would kind of agree with it. I also want to do the other two systems, the built systems and the community systems. And I'm hoping to get that done by the end of the week so I can distribute it
to you guys as well as to town staff because I think they're going to pay more attention now when they're their uh names are next to it as responsible parties and I'm I'm hoping u I did run um things like the transportation by the town engineer and she's like yeah we're working on all these things anyway. I
think that's the key to these things that shouldn't be too surprising for people because they're things I know that they're working on already. um there shouldn't be any huge um unexpected surprises. The time frames, they might have some very specific, well, I'm not getting to that till five to seven years from now or whatever. So,
that that that would be very helpful to get their input on that. So, that's kind of that second one. And then um there's a bunch of different chapters um that we didn't send to them that BSC group is working on and one of them is, you know, a whole chapter where we talk about our public engagement process, how we worked
with the Cape Cod Commission. We still need to include the goal, the community goals. We have them, but they don't have this the chapter on it. Um, yeah. And I'm just looking through here. And then they're going to update, you know, some recent action items as we
keep moving forward. We keep got to keep updating them until the last minute um about things that are going on in town. A lot of great things. Um, so I I think they're working on a bunch of stuff as well as figures and maps and formatting. So, they're trying to put together what is basically a full
complete draft. Um, I'm working on the matrix and action items and they're kind of working on everything else and kind of hopefully will blend together nicely um when we get there. I don't know if you wanted to go through this. They also included suggestions of things that we might want to consider including. Um,
but I take these as suggestions. Um, and it's kind of up to you guys um how you want to proceed with that. Um the first section is the natural resources and they just mentioned that the open space and recck plan they've now allow you to go instead of a seven-year plan to go to
a 10-year plan. We need to modify our action plan by September in order to qualify that. We have every intention of doing that. So the open space and rec plan will be a 10-year plan uh instead of a seven-year plan. So it's just kind of that's just kind of a FYI make sure you know about that. Um the second one
had to do with um looking for some type of emergency situation redundancy with our water system. I think that was very helpful with Barnstable when they had the problems with the POS in their wells. We were able to interconnect and provide them with water. I don't know that was maybe four years ago while they
um got their uh POS treatment going on those two on those two wells. I put in an email to to Lori Vasal. I'm trying to find out whether those whether that interconnection still exists for that redundancy. It obviously makes more sense for for Barnstable than it does for Dennis because
we have a giant river between us. We have a river between us. It's a little difficult. Um the Arma storm water regulations, they they kind of said this in the open space and recreation uh plan as well is we always are concentrating on nitrogen
removal for our marine estuaries, but now how about phosphorus for our ponds and our freshwater resources. So just adding phosphorus in there um to that action item. So as we go through these cap from your perspective, these are all reasonable
suggestions. Nope. Are these that we just went through are they reasonable? The first one we don't need to do anything. The second one I just need to double check with Lori. I've kind of included it as a redundancy comment in what you have. Um and then I adding the phosphorus is fine.
Okay. Um with regard to um the transportation, I talked to Amanda about the safe routes to school. We can't participate that until we have gone through the complete streets process, but we already are talking about doing that. There's an action item. we can add a little thing
and then participate in the safe uh routes to school. So that's that's a good suggestion. Um you know and they're kind of the second one is the town wants to consider expansion of pedestrian bike infrastructure on roadways as we are doing things like sewer expansions and
that type of thing. They keep mentioning this. They mention it also in capital like anytime you're doing something try to layer your infrastructure together which we do. you know, we're doing the sewer, but we're also while we're there, we're doing the water mane, and then on top of that, we'll get the streetscape done. So, that we're already kind of
doing doing that type of work. So, we can see if there's like a little ver a little word or two we can add in on that. Um, the third one has to do with establishing more committees, and both Amanda and I are adamantly against that. That's a big no. Um, so that's a no. Um, I think the the
point is is we want to Yeah, that's a really big no. We want to have public input and we've been doing a great job engaging the public and getting their input, but staff can be much faster and nimler if we can work on these projects ourselves without having to have open meeting laws, agendas,
minutes, and all of those things. Um, it doesn't mean we're not going to get tons of public input on these things. We will, but it does it doesn't need to be governed and run by by a committee. Um, the safety campaigns related to vision zero, both Amanda and I kind of thought we we already mentioned the vision zero action plans. we don't need
to do anything anything addition to that. So, that would kind of be not really. Um, under community design, you know, it's kind of a a good point. Staff knows that the protections offered to buildings within Old King's Highway District are different than those in the National Register and just kind of acknowledge
those differences. It's probably a sentence or something that we can add in. I don't have a problem with that. Just on that, Kathy, I I'm I don't want to belabor this and it's getting late. Why would a comment like that be needed in a local comprehensive plan? I don't
like a fact, you know. Yeah, they're they two thing two different districts exist and they have different requirements. I mean, the local comprehensive plan isn't meant to be the encyclopedia about everything about the town. So when
comments like this come in from the commission, we I I appreciate them, but I'm wondering, you know, how how how detailed the plan is supposed to be. I think these is a sentence. Okay. Personally, it's up to you guys. Um it's
just but I think you know lots of people may may or may not know that there are very distinct um and but the question then so we make the sentence and then someone will say well what are they? So, is the local comprehensive plan supposed to
um I'd like to we probably won't have it for for the draft that goes to the public, but it would be really great to have all the kinds of links links to the old Kings Highway, links to this, links to that. So, if you want to learn more, this is where you go. I see. I see. Commission has done a great job relying
on links in in their reports to keep it to keep it down. They do. They do a great job on that. you could spend more time delving into the links than you ever did re then you forgot where you are and you try to go back and you're like ah where was I um anyway and then the other one is just you know whether we want to mention the
demolition delay bylaw um I I I don't have feel as strongly about including that it it's just one of those things where um it just delays it for six months it doesn't prevent it from happening but again we could mention it if you guys want to
I don't see We need to Yeah. I don't Yeah. Go. Mark, you were going to say something. Yeah. The demolition delay um in Old Kings Highway is not for 6 months. It's Oh, 12. No, it's not. Oh, what is it? No, we just found We just figured we
just had an attorney point that out to us. They They want you to redesign your project. Come up with a better plan. Oh, really? Yes. Oh, it's in it's Oh, so there's no demolition. There is a demolition delay, meaning you're not doing your project. But it's not defined.
You got to come up with a better way. Period. In old Kings Highway, in Old King's Highway, the South Yarmouth Historic District, that's that's different. That's a six-month demolition delay. Demolition delay applies to any building over 75 years. Correct.
So, any building over 75 years old, even like uh Oh, my house is getting there. Yeah, I think something. Yeah. 75 years. 75 years which is creeping yeah creeping up on us to a lot of we did have a lot of 60s7s
houses and yeah so that might be something to think about you think about the development boom in the 50s I mean 75 years is coming up real quick so so because of that additional information do we want to add anything about it no
no I think I think not all right so no thank you um and Then as we move on, solid waste. You know, this is something where I'm going to we're already kind of doing this. Staff recommends adding a sentence or two about the potential role
of the Yarmouth Railhead Transfer Station property in regional solutions for improved waste management. It's already a commercial transfer station. It's already regional. What else? It's already regional. So I I was unclear on exactly what would we mention? Right. Right.
So that's a no. I mean, unless we don't don't refer to it at all, but I think I vaguely remember that we do. But yeah, I thought there was something in there about it because it's the rail. It's the end of the rail head basically. And that's why Yeah. Okay. Um
and you know, this is kind of one of those things where another one where um this makes me think that they just didn't have a lot to say because we did such a good job. Yeah, I think so. Seriousness. Yep. you know, about, you know, just referencing and
coordinating construction projects. Again, you know, if you're doing a roadway project, you know, maybe you want to do the water uh at the same time if it needs to. I would think that's a no-brainer. That's our plan right along. So, I think it's a sentence of saying,
"Yeah, that's our that's our intention." Yeah. Right. It's what we do now. That's right. And they say that well, it's the standard practice for the town. They just kind of want to explicitly describe the town's intent and process. It's all done through the CIP process and through
DPW and management. You know, it's like good town management. Um, oh, and you know, this is like it would be help to confirm that the major capital facilities infrastructure projects are being designed and cited with resiliency in mind. Um I think that
that's becoming a bigger issue for the entire town of Yarmouth. I think it's um something that we are doing. I think we even have an action but I think we do mention that's right. It's already being built into the wastewater project. So I mean I can say that much. I think this was a cut and paste
bullet points. I don't think Peter. Um and then the you know I did talk to Amanda about the EV chargers. Um, I mean the c the capital plan specifically says it's not for small projects and I'm sorry but an EV
charging station is a relatively small capital project. Um, and that we have them already at town hall DPW at Bayberry and the senior. Those are level two and they're free. So you have to park there for eight hours. Um, you know, I do mention I
think an action item of of installing more level three which is the fast charging ones at places. Um, but we didn't see a reason to add anything in capital on that one. No, the only reason you would is if I think
Ken on capital if you were to bundle them into a site. Yeah. And there would be the accumulation of 10 of them or 20 of them might break the the the um kind of the limit on what you need to have it be capital.
Um, right. So I mean we've done when anyway that's the only reason why or if you did them at all like the Southshore beaches you know if you had them then you bundle those all together and they would be a and if they got to be you know over
10,000 or whatever the new limit is um they do have people who come to DPW and park at the end of the day and charge their cars really for the night. Yeah. Do it here too. Yeah. I've seen it here. Yeah. Come on. I don't think we char it's not it's free. metered, but it's free to them.
It's free to them, not to us. So, they're paying it on their taxes. So, well, if they're local, good point. But I think, you know, the hotels and places like that are being much more proactive, I think, with level three charges because they, you know, want to provide it.
So, so that's that. Okay. Um I think um just to look at a little bit at the schedule, they're just all the things that BSC groups they just we just wrote it down so that we would know that I would know and you would know what they're working on over the next week and a half or two weeks.
They've been working on it for a while. Um so we got the comments back on on the 9th. Um we're talking about it today, but BSC Group is really hoping to have a draft um for your packets next Friday. not this Friday, but next Friday. My
packet may be a little separate from that. Um but um and then we need to possibly have a um I'd like to have a supplemental meeting on July 30th really just to kind of talk about just that, get your guys'
input, any any final edits just to okay that this is what we're going to put out for the for the 30-day public comment and then we'll have it out all of August. Um, and then when we come back, we can, um, we don't have all of the dates here. I didn't get to finish the
schedule, but um, in between that, we'll meet with the select board on the 12th, go give the presentation, kind of get their input. Um, and then when we we're done on the 1, we can in the beginning of of September, see how maybe in the middle of August, we'll see check in and see what kind of comments we have. And
then in September, we can look at that. And then depending on how many we get will be a little bit of a function of when we schedule the um the formal public hearing. I'm thinking it might be later. That might be October 1, but it's
not going to be I think originally we were looking at September 10th. Um uh can we do just a quick check on availability for the 30th? Would be great. Um I know I'm available. Is that two weeks from today or next week? Two weeks.
Two weeks. two weeks. I I will probably be late. Is that I mean I I have to I I'll be coming from something in Falmouth and I'm not sure I'll be able to make it. I'll plan to Okay, great. But I know
and our next meeting isn't until two weeks after that, the 13th of August. No, no, we're the sixth. It would be the next week. It would be the sixth. Would be the sixth. Yeah. Yeah. Oh god. I know. I'm sorry. We're kind of having to meet kind of as we get stuff done.
The schedule is really compressed. It's not August 5th. It is August 6th. My my mistake. Okay. So, we need to get a sense of who might be available for the 30th. So, Susan, yes, I am. Dedra may be late. Peter. Okay.
I'm available. Mr. Sabin. Mr. Sabin has exited the building. Um, well, maybe he sent me a message that he had to leave. Sorry, Madam Chair. Uh, I'm still trying to be the clerk even when I'm not there. Um, unfortunately
because of camp responsibilities, I will be not I won't I won't be on the cape on the 30th. Okay. All right. I will not be. Sorry. Well, we'll make sure you get a copy of the draft and and I will I am doing my best to look at
it in my spare time. I promise. And I know we still have a little bit of distance left in this race. Yeah. Um, so if you do have comments though, we'll uh before we issue it on August fir August 1st, right? Yeah. Hopefully there's not a ton of
comments. A lot a lot of comments, you know, if you have something that's a burning issue. Um, just make sure you I promise I will email that to Kathy. Thank you. That'd be great. That'd be great. Okay. Uh, sorry Kathy. I just wanted to get Oh, I appreciate make sure that we could do it on 30th.
So your homework initially is just, you know, do you have any comments on the natural systems and then hopefully by the end of the week you can get the other ones and let me know for these two that you gave us tonight. You you want us to do a little bit of homework and I would appreciate that. Check that check in with Kathy as to
comments as soon as you can. Um Kathy is on vacation next week. Um and we're not going to bother her. Uh but any any comments that we can get um either uh by the end of the week or the following week would be good. Yeah. Um it would Yeah, I probably will
end up working next Friday just because I'm going to get the stuff from Jeff and I need to compile it and get the packet out to you guys. All right. Um so yeah, send send me whatever whatever you have. Even peace meal, you know, the natural systems you didn't get to before whatever. Um I keep concentrating on the natural
systems because they're the first and I feel really good about them, but we need to concentrate. It is a good chapter for sure on the other stuff for sure. But yeah, that would be great. Okay. Are we are we done with the other two with the union and the we not bother to review those?
Um they've been this is it. Um I don't think there's anything shocking in here that's different than what was presented on the um 25th is they're just kind of basically compiling all this information uh in in one particular place. Uh so we
have the report. Um, I do think that somewhere in the land use section we need to talk about this and I know that Jeff's going to add something in recent town actions kind of more detail on what this is happening. Uh, and then, you know, maybe some more generic uh,
action item related to, you know, reviewing these in more detail and considering these recommendations or something just because we really haven't had a chance to digest any of it. As Susan pointed out, we haven't really discussed it other than, you know, hearing about it at the meeting. So, there's some things in here that, you
know, probably won't necessarily fly in Yarmouth that we all know our community um more than consultants do sometimes, but um it's certainly good information that needs to be, you know, reviewed as we move forward. Madam Chair, can I just clarify because
I wasn't at the pre our previous meeting, we are still working backwards from November 17th, right, as a proposed special town meeting date. Yes. Correct. Okay. Thank you. Um so Kathy uh with regard to the uh the
BSC group report um it's mostly with regard to their recommendations which begins on page 13. Um those are these are being incorporated in some way as considerations in the LCP. What?
No, it's going I'm going to we're going to reference this. Okay. and we'll reference this as the results of it and then we'll say we need to look at these recommendations more closely. I'm not going to pull out any of these recommendations. Okay, great. Okay, we're not that far along.
Yeah. Okay, that sounds good. Okay. Anything else on local comprehensive plan? N um on to meeting minutes. May I have a motion to accept the minutes of June 25th? Talk about MUK. What? You want to talk about Muk?
Oh, sorry. I missed Muk. It's right here on my list. Muk number three. Sorry. Really quickly, um the MUK had their workshop meeting last night. Um BSC group. Same same crew. Um Jeff was there
uh as well as as Adam and Heather uh and Jeff Fasser. Um just gave a presentation of kind of where we are with the land use groups. gave a summary of the survey and then we ended up uh having a bunch of facilitated questions. We broke up into breakout groups. We had three groups in here, one
group in the conference room. We had like 35 people in person and then they had two breakout groups um with about 12 people on on online. Um a little bit less than obviously what we had at the um January LCP, but they just did a survey and I
find that lots of people are like, I just provided my input in a survey. So sometimes they don't necessarily um come to a workshop. And then uh in addition to answering the facilitated questions, we also um did a little mapping exercises with different squares of where we might want where would you like
to see some housing? Where would you like to see fields? You know, they had a bunch of different blocks that kind of represented kind of standard sizes. So it will help them kind of develop some bubble diagrams of okay, we want recreation over here, maybe the school goes here, maybe housing goes here, and that type of thing. um for and all of
that's going to be compiled and summarized um at the muck meeting on August 11th without the without the assistant town administrator who's sort of spearheading or bringing this to the finish line. Is there somebody or question? Oh, okay. I
um there's been no transition like formal transition. Um I'm trying to help as much as I can. Obviously, my number one goal has to be the local comprehensive plan because we can't let that slip. Um but yeah, I've been helping as much as I can. Um then
there's also the library. Um um sounds and I'll let Susan give an update on that, but they also met on Monday and that process is moving forward, but they are interviewing people for the assistant town administrator. They've been back lots of people with suits and fancy clothes.
If you know any if you know anyone, send them have them call. So So that maybe that's the the idea of of um of transitioning to them. I I've always kind of been involved in the mech just because I want to keep tabs on it for the local comprehensive plan and Bill's been very good about saying
that's my role. Um but with him not there, they they you know the consultants need some help. They need to have things answered and stuff. So I'm trying to fill that role at least temporarily. His last day was Friday. Last Friday. Monday. Monday.
A steel day. A steel day. Do you want to move? Anything else on on mukb and basically they're going to start, you know, after they get all that workshop and input from the muk the consultant's going to start looking at, you know, developing some some concept
plan, three concepts. So they're going to do that probably over the rest of the summer into the like, you know, midfeb not February, midepptember. The whole idea is to get that done by the end of the year as well. At least the three concepts to the select board for their
I don't know if did you notice that economic development and housing was down the bottom of the the surveyed list. It seems it wasn't certainly one of the top top really bottom third the full survey results with even with the um the written comments which are
very interesting and I recommend people read those if you want to get a full understanding of people who took the survey are on that Madakis utilization project website. So now, may I have a motion? So moved. Second. I move I move the minutes of June 25th
be All in favor. Oh, do we have to do a roll call with Will? With We have to do a roll call. Will Sorry, I am mucking things up. See what I did there? Abstain. Okay. Uh, Mr. Smith, I. Uh, Mr. Slovak. Hi,
Miss Britta. Hi, Miss Gwin. Hi. uh and myself I units are approved. Uh we just got the uh committee update on Muk. Susan, you want to give us a brief library? We met Monday. Um and Kathy was
there. Um the the schedule is very aggressive because they have a they have a state deadline. So we're meeting constantly sometimes twice a week from now until uh you know until we they actually have a sub get the stuff submitted to the state. We are going to have a public,
what are we calling it, Kathy? A public community meeting on the 17th of September. Two in one day. One in the afternoon for people that cannot attend at night and one at night for people that cannot be the during the day. It's the It's the 13th of August. No, I thought they moved it back because
we didn't Was it the 13th or the 17th? I'll get the date. It's the 13th. It's in August. It's either the 13th. I thought they moved it because we didn't have enough time to get it originally going to be on the 7th and they moved it a week training and they moved it to the 13th. They could get this room.
That's right. So, it's going to be on the 13th and it will be twice. There'll be two meetings that day. One at 1 and one at 7 o'clock. Um and it's basically u it's really a concept meeting. No decisions just this is where we are. What are your thoughts? Um and it will
be a large part will be discussion of the site uh which is the site of course right across the street. Uh but they're moving very aggressively. The architect was there. They've already started doing some blocking and stacking in terms of where they want space to go. Um, it's going to be a very lively discussion
because there's a lot of discussion about space and do we do we little things like do we need little toilet little toilets in the kids bathrooms or do we do regular those things although they sound mundane have a big impact on the budget. Um, so those are the kinds of things
that we have to get involved in. Uh, but they are moving very aggressively. They're they're on target. They were down here. They visited the site. The survey works almost done. Uh, and we're meeting, as I said, we're meeting constantly to keep this thing on schedule because we cannot miss the time
frame. So, Madam Chair, would you allow one quick question from Miss Brida? Absolutely. Thank you. What are the implications for the seaside festival if the library is built in that location? Well, that was funny. You should say that, Will, because that was a major
topic of discussion Monday night. The sentiment I apologize because of work. I just No, that's all right. It's they're they're you know everyone's got tons of meetings to go to. The sentiment right now um will is that there will be virtually no impact. Uh first of all certainly for this year there'll be no impact because nothing's going to be
happening. No construction and um the the concept the site is so huge that no matter where they put the library on the site there's going to be plenty of open space to accommodate the SEAC festival which is a major major concern of a lot
of people in the town. Um, and the architects are very aware of that as are the library people. Uh, and certainly Monday night the general sentiment seemed to be there's going to be enough space to accommodate the seaside festival regardless of where they put the library. Um, so that's what the now
that may change, but right now that's that seems to be it is not going to be in jeopardy. There's still going to be a very large area. or whether that's the area specifically where they have all their underground electric and water. There might need to be some work as part of the library to to address that so that
they have all of that. But it's still going to be fairly large area because the whole idea is a town common. Yeah. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Susan. Well, well, while while I have you uh will um any rack updates.
Oh, I have an update. Yes. Um, I was unable to attend the meeting, but I watched the entire video earlier today. Um, there are a few things. I know the select board hasn't met. So, I'll just start with the biggest headline. The select board hasn't met since June 24th. The rack met on July 7th. And as it
relates to pump station number two, there has been no progress on the location. Um, the town is still negotiating a solution. Jeff Colby was, this is me re quoting Jeff Colby. Um the select board uh has been meeting in
executive session. He says there are multiple parties involved. Um so we're still not in a resolution there. And it does have some implications because while the the contractor that originally won the
bid uh which is uh Digot Construction is still holding their quote. But it is remains to be seen whether or not that has to be completely redone. if the location of the pump station moves. All right. So, I just wanted to start with the most
what I would say urgent part of the uh wastewater project. I understand there are other things that are urgent, but to me that is the most urgent in terms of all of phase one continuing to move in in the timeline that it's supposed to
move in. Um, so unfortunately because of my job, I'm not able to pay too close attention to select board meetings, but I would ask all of us on the planning board if you do hear of things because the rack only meets once a month. Um, if there is a resolution that the select board, you know, comes down from the
mountain with the tablets and says, "This is where the pump station's going to be and we've worked it all out." I would appreciate some communication to me personally would be really nice to know and then we can start telling and asking people because on our committee as you can imagine a lot of our committee members on the rack are
getting that question asked of us constantly and so the more that we can share with each other if we hear things especially from the select board I'd appreciate it. Um also the uh the plant the the facility is certainly underway. Uh we've got lots of earthwork going on,
lots of excavation, foundations are coming um and have started. Um as far as the discharge, the state, as you know, uh the D has been working with us since they only issued us a permit that is I'm just going to say it inadequate. Um and
so we are working uh they are working to their credit and making some good progress according to Jeff. Um which is kind of interesting. There's going to be at Bayberry a main recharge area buried under the driving range and some proposed new parking lots. So, that's
kind of interesting. And we're actually doing a pilot test along some of the fairways this fall and winter to see um with some manholes actually and some ways of um hopefully being able to take
a lot of the extra load. Um, we also talked about the engineers are now talking about using the existing force vein that goes down Buck Island Road, but now using in the opposite direction to the golf course, which means that we'd have to build a pump station at the septic plant, which is not the end of
the world, but we need to push that extra flow into these new storage pads and storage areas that I just referenced at the golf course. Again, we have time to figure this out, and there'll be pilot tests this winter, but it can't be gravity fed. It has to be pumped. Um, I cannot speak for Madam Chair, but I was
told at this RACK meeting on the video I watched that Station Avenue is paved. Is that true? That is true. There you go. How about near your house, Madam Chair? All paved. Lovely. Okay. So, again, that meeting was a week ago, so I'm glad to hear that
that is true. Um, my only disappointment is from two access points, I'm only 100 feet away. Understood. in the sewer. I'm only 100 ft away from the sewer. Yeah, the dome. And I'm going to have to wait. Yeah. Oh, you mean you're 100t?
I'm 100t away from the house on my street that is going to have a connection. So, I'm two houses away. Um, so phase two, you keep reminding us that phase two is open for negotiation. So, well, I mean, again,
maybe I should join in there. Well, I but I will say this truly that starting in the fall, we will be having discussions about phase two because it will be time to start thinking about and talking about phase two. Um, despite the fact that, you know, contract six is
still not quite done. However, I have some other good news. Um, according to what I heard that in terms of the construction for all the water and the sewer work on 28, again, in the sections that have already been done, that that is done. Um, and in fact, the town, Jeff
KBY said, is going to do the final paving of the Route 28 sections that have been under construction. The town is going to do that obviously, except for where Mas dot is now going to come in, as we know, farther down 28 when they start that intriguing roundabout
project, whenever that's going to be. Um, let's see. Uh the good news is Western Parker's River which is contract five um we now have an intent of award DP is now doing its dance its approval dance um
digit construction did get it um and they will be starting in the midfall so that's again 28 west of Parkers River to Higgins Crow so that is moving that is going forward unfortunately contract six which is connected to that directly to the west am I doing that right
yeah you're doing right yes thank Thank you. Thank you, Ken. Um, that's the one that's being held up by the pump station location and at some point relatively soon, they've got to get this resolved or else the dominoes stop falling and that's not what anybody wants. So, I will continue to keep you updated.
And then lastly, because of this progress now shifting and construction work shifting down 28 to the west that uh DPW and the Armouth police, I know Mike Bryant retired, but they have a new contact at the Armouth Police. Um and they will be starting to reach out to
business owners soon because detours need to be established. Neighborhoods are going to be impacted. Um when that work starts in the fall and now apparently in the next week, few weeks, uh DPW and the police will be talking to
the business owners and homeowners in those areas about what's coming in the fall. Last but certainly not least, Jeff Colby and Spiro Mitukostas, who's the chair of the rack, will be at the select board meeting next Tuesday night, which will be the first select board meeting, I think, in about a month. Um, except
for the goal setting one I think they just had. And there'll be a presentation by Jeff where maybe he'll have more insight and maybe there will be a solution to the pump station issue uh at that point. And then the rack, I'm sure, uh, Representative Spiro, I'm sure, uh, will make it clear that we're very open
to having people come and participate in our meetings and or, uh, you know, tell us how things are going because as we know, Madam Chair, residents are not shy, nor should they be. Thank you very much. Yeah. Thank you, Will. Can I ask just one question? Will, just a quick question for you. Has there been any discussion at all about doing any
type of temporary milling and temporary paving to Route 28 in the sections that the work has been done in before winter because I don't see how they could even plow that road. So I Yeah. Well, it's it feels to me that's a good question, Ken. It feels to me that that the town of Yarmouth is going
to be doing a final pave this fall. Okay. Of the sections that were just completed. So, I guess my short answer is yes. and it will be done by DPW because I just I didn't quite know this but I did learn it um from watching them watching the meeting is that the final
pave was actually not in the bids uh for either Robert Hour or Ravoli. Um so the town has basically said you know what we're going to do it and we're going to do it our way and we're going to do it comprehensively but it won't be until the fall. So I I am pretty confident that it'll be done before the winter Ken. Okay.
Thanks Bill. All right. Great. You're welcome. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you. Um, Mr. Slovak, CEDC. CEDC. Well, I mean, Kathy, if you can confirm for me, we're looking for five new members.
Alls I know is that Courtney, Danielle, Joe Manning, and Joe Gibbs resigned. Resigned. And then Steve had Steve O'Neal had already resigned a couple weeks leaves the Peters and the repeat. The Pete and the repeat. Right. Right. and and the other Peter
who wasn't I wasn't at the meeting or it might be six. Uh so I I'm not speaking for Peter but he wasn't there so he didn't have a chance to he he stopped by. It sounds as though he's interested in continuing forward. I mean he he didn't indicate to me anyway that he was thinking of res.
That's that's good because I think he he was nominated to the design review committee so not being there. So this is Courtney Butler resigned. Yeah. There was a there was a select meeting. Um we had our CDC meeting last week and the select meeting was there and and it wasn't um just a select
meeting. It's been a tough couple of years I think for this committee. I mean the committee it's really too bad because this was this was a super committee. um they were really wanted to do and carry out the charge and you know focusing on the you know the chamber
part of it as well as trying to get our feet into the economic development part of it you know which we can never do because you spend so much time dealing with the chamber stuff and I think at the last meeting um you know they were we were looking at doing a rebrand possibly paying for a survey
for a rebrand of Yarmouth because we saw all the changes that are coming that economic development that's and everything we're doing and we said well why don't we you know the chambers had the same contract for 10 years so maybe it's time to look at a rebrand identify really what do we what are we now within reach and a lot of people don't
understand what that means anymore that was 10 years ago or many years ago so um I mean along with that you know we wanted to shift some of the chamber um the chamber contract budgeting money special project money back to us um back
back to um because it's there's a little bit inconsistency. The chamber does their special projects, but then they need extra money. So then they got to come back or we have to revote it. So we were going to just sort of take all of the special projects under your umbrella. Under our umbrella the same way we treat all the special projects. So it wasn't an elimination, but it was more sort of
a consolidation and maybe looking at the chamber contract in another way. It's been the same contract for 10 years and it's really if you look at it, it's written so that only the chamber can right be the winner. It's called soul sourcing which is in some after 10 years it's
almost against the law becomes like an entitlement program at that point. I mean and and the selectman three were mostly supportive and you know want you were there. I was there I thought Courtney did an awesome job. Courtney did a great job but I I think I think by the third or fourth time I was
I listened to it at home but by the third or fourth time I I think I heard one of the select say lack of communication on our part which we've done nothing but communicate really well. You know, we've had the muck thrown at us. We haven't had an economic development coord coordinator for two plus years.
Um, you know, the assistant town administrator maybe saw him once in two years at a meeting. You know, good with memos. The muck thing was thrown at us. We did that. Um, you know, it was supposed to be three MUK meetings. We were told not to attend the first one. We were going to have separate meetings. So, I mean, I think that the CEDC did a
lot of sort of work, you know, to carry out what the what the charge was. And I just think it was clear we weren't going to be able to go in a direction we hope to try to go to and and you know the parade was brought up again
at the last meeting from last year. So they started to rehash something from a year ago and I think that was enough and I wasn't surprised after the meeting I I watched it and I said, "Oh, I bet you they're going to work." It was it was unfortunate because you guys had made a lot of progress.
At least you've shaped things up, right? and I you know so that's where that commits stay had wow we'll see where that goes um it's too bad any other committee
just real quick on keer budget we did have a meeting uh 10 days ago now um with Bill assistant town administrator prior to him leaving just to see where we stood with everything mainly on the software side because Bill had put so much work into streamlining the capital
budget process. We wanted to make sure before he left town that we were set up to move forward with it and the software is in good shape. We all have a pretty good working knowledge of the back end and actually um myself and Sandy and on
the capital budget committee have contact with the software developer now. So if we have issues, we can reach right out to them. Um, but the good part about it was we've streamlined a process to get out to the department heads in town to help them hopefully get their capital
budget plans put together sooner rather than later to give us more time to spend with them and truly get a better understanding of, you know, we can't do everything. So, what is your real needs rather than sitting there and trying to just trying to figure out the last
second say, okay, yep, we're going to do this. when there may be something more important and it just doesn't present that way in the way we've been kind of doing in the past. So, I'm actually excited for the direction we're going with it. So, we will be starting next month. We
have meetings almost every week. So, it's here. It's here. Thank you, Ken. And from housing there were Yes, we had a meeting on Monday. Excuse me. Um and um Mary
presented a a draft regulations from the state of a possible um starter home zoning district which you know I think it's excuse me it's coming up but it's not
going to be enacted for a long time so there'll be review periods but that's something that we'll be involved in obvious obviously because it's zoning and it's basically for the town. A town can establish a an
area wi which has by right zoning of four four houses per acre with a maximum 1850 square feet and um I can't remember what oh yeah you know it just had a lot
of requirements that would make it amendable to small houses. So, it's very interesting and uh there didn't seem to be anything particularly controversial in it. If it comes up, it'll be sent to us, I'm sure. So, I think it's the four houses per acre
that's the controversial part. Exactly. 1500 square feet, right? But but point is that we don't have to do it. So, it's, you know, it's just something. So, this is a proposal from the from the state from the state that housing and livable communities.
Okay. I see. Okay. that Healey administration just out of the box thinking I guess and I don't you know so I since I don't know the processes yet I'm just reporting what I Oh thank you and then there the habitat uh project is ongoing and almost ready to be presented
to the select board and then there's been a um a purchase at 645 Route 28 and they're going to put up a mixeduse building. So where is 625? It is. It is at the corner of Applebee. Across from Jerry's. Yeah. Yeah.
Across from what? Cumberland Farms. Across the street. Yeah. Jerry Seafood. Jerry Seafood. Uh next to Caters. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I guess it's a a an abandoned Chinese farm. Used to be a Yeah. Used to saw the sign. I saw the sign. Green building there. Yeah.
Yeah. And that's going to be two commercial uh units and 11 apartments. Four of them will be affordable and one will be accessible and um one will be a two-bedroom, 10 will be onebedroom
and anyway that's that's what they're planning at the moment. That's what the plan how big that's So Kat, do you know if that's gone to design review? Where in the process is that? Um it it came before the affordable housing trust because they responded to an RFP. So I we've we've seen it um to
provide comments, you know, so that they've kept improving it. I can't tell you how nice it is that to work with someone who's like, "Oh, okay. Yeah, we'll change that." And they're really really really trying to make it look uh as nice as possible. So it hasn't gone through any town permitting yet. It just was went through the affordable housing
trust and I think they gave $450,000 maybe. I didn't I didn't write down they were awarded some money um for the project by the affordable housing trust in response to their RFP and guess they're going to be going out with a bunch more RFPs in the near future.
So this RFP was specific to that site. No, it was specific to I think it might have been like blighted properties or I can't I can't remember exactly what it was but it was you got extra points if you did a mixeduse development. Are you, this is just an opinion I'm asking, but
based on all the work we've done on the mixed use, does this seem to be um kind of in line with where some of the consultant thoughts are are have have been moving in terms of what they're recommending to us or
the design? Yeah, I think the design is looking great. I don't know whether he's put pen to paper with regard to the proforma and how that all works out and I don't I don't think he has anyone particular for the commercial space. So I think hopefully he can get through all the way
to the end and and construct it. But I think having the $450,000 from the affordable housing fact 28 is awesome. Yeah. I mean it's a good spot and you can walk right down to Parker River. It's a great spot. But what I guess what
my question is, we, you know, we've had these two reports tonight. Um, it seems like this is good news in relation to some of the recommendations that have been coming through from the consultants on how it might work on 28. I think, you know, they would always probably would have this was a somewhat
of an odd situation because it's two parcels. The parcel in the back that's the parking that's actually an R25, right? Um, it's only the smaller parcel in the front that's the VC. Um, and that's one of those lots where we probably should have I should have thought about that and incorporated it because it really is
is kind of being developed or has been developed as one lot in the past. And lots of times you'll see that we have gone back that little bit extra um with the VCOD. Um, so he was limited to 11 units and I'm sure he would have preferred to have you know 13 or 14. He
would originally came in I think with um 22. Yeah. and was going to do a chapter 40B, but when he found out that we had this buy right VCOD zoning, he's like, I want to do that. And he's been very, you know, we went through it all with him and he came back with a proposal for the mixed use. Do
you have any is the name is the name of the corporation or the develop who who's developing this? She she see if I wrote it down. Yeah, it's Dennis Kirko, I think. Is it Bay Ridge? Bay Ridge. Bay Ridge. Yep. Okay, that sounds right. Can we can we
put that on the route 28 map? I was going to ask as a project. I think it's in there. You know, the map that we've got with all the So, it's already on there. I'm I I'm I'm questioning myself now. Oh, really?
That's great. Kathy, do we 45 Route 28 in Applebee 18 Applebee former restaurant? It's on there. What are we What are we telling developers about sewer? I mean, some of these projects may not start until they know they're going to be completed when the sewer is there, right? beginning of
2028 is my understanding. I don't know if Will has any more information in terms of when the plant is online when you can start flushing a toilet will flow. Yeah, that is that's been the timeline that I've heard and I think would be consistent with when Ken was serving on
that committee as well. I mean the date early 2028. The date's important too from a financing standpoint. So no. So yeah. So I I think that they have to get at least something flowing to the plant by then or else potential state
finances saying you're not ready and we're not going to give you any more money. So at least in the phases, right? So I think that that date is I won't say etched in absolute stone, but it's an important date.
Agreed. Which again, if you just back all these things up to my earlier update, got to get this pump station thing resolved. And uh any other uh board member items? I do have one. I just noticed that I expired this morning. Go away.
I'm sorry. What? So we need to we uh the reappointment process. Oh, if you just send me an email that you're interested in being reappointed. Okay. And then I'll forward it to Pam and they'll put it on. Yeah. You you're still obligated to serve until someone else is
Great. That's yeah I can I just add three updates um brand new but you were filling a success at with the that site what about great island any action on great island at all Kathy there's some discussions going on behind
the scenes that's not really for public consumption but I think something's happening that's dangerous and there's discussions that are not public that's very dangerous number two the laundry site anything they're just starting to do a project they may not want everyone in their in their brother to know about it.
Good. Put it out there and have people automatically say we hate it. Um the laundry site, anything on the laundry site? Nothing on that. There actually was. Today he made an appointment with me for next week. Okay. Wow. Good. So he's I'm going to actually You're going to get the email tomorrow. Be a lot of development along 28. And then the drive-in site. I noticed
there's a whole new construction thing in front of the drive-in site now. Did you notice that panels or something in front of it as I drove by? In front of the drivein like right at the road. That's a pump station. That's the pump station. That's the pump station. Oh, is that Okay. I was going so fast down 28 to the pump. That's where the pump station.
That's what it was. Okay. Okay. I just wanted Yeah, it looks I didn't realize, but yeah, you're right. It was right on the pump station. Okay. But nothing uh but laundry is moving and there may be something on the because the uh I went to the Great Island Coalowners Association meeting and the
one thing they asked for was what's what's an update on that Great Island? And I said, "We talk about it all the time, but that doesn't seem to be any progress on it." So, I can tell them there may be a teeny tiny bit of something. Teeny quick. Okay.
Um, Cath correspondents or any other staff updates from you? I'm thinking good. Okay. Um, next meeting. So, we're going to meet on the 30th. 30th. And then the 6th and then on August 6th. The only thing I would point out is I'm going to go to
the police night out on August 5th um to kind of do what I did before with some flyers. I'll probably if the library if I can get a flyer from the library about your August 13th meeting, I can certainly distribute that. Okay. Um and then maybe some information on
the muk. So we'll just kind of planning projects in Yarmouth and we can have like a little flyer festival and people can can find out what's going on. So have contact information, links to the websites, how you can get notified and all that stuff. Okay. Okay.
Um, anything else? Okay. So, may I have a motion to adjurnn? So moved. Uh, we'll take a roll call. Mr. Rubenstein, I a second. Ken. Yeah, I second that. Uh, Mr. Smith. I. Mr. Slovak. Hi. Miss Gwen.
I. And uh, Miss Brida. Hi. And me? Yes, meeting is adjourned. Thank you all. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thanks, everybody. Thank you, Will.