Recording in progress. >> Lucky me. >> Good evening and welcome to the March 4th, 2026th Yarmouth Planning Board meeting. I am Joanne Crowley, chair. Public is welcome to attend in person this evening or via alternative public
access provided on the notice of meeting available on the town of uh town of Yarmouth website. I'll begin by taking roll call. Susan Brida >> here. >> Deedra Gaquin >> here. >> Tom Pendleton. Will Rubenstein >> here. >> Peter Slovak >> here. >> Ken Smith
>> here. >> Joanne Crowley present. Seeing that we have a quorum. I'll now call the meeting to order. Please join me in the pledge of >> allegiance. To the flag of the United States of America to the stands
andice for all. I'm able to raise the seat. First item on our agenda this evening is a public hearing on a zoning amendment that we've prepared for the 2026 annual town meeting. I note the time as 5:34.
Uh, I'd like to first uh read the public hearing notice. Um, the order of the public hearing will be as follows. After I read the notice, town planner Kathy Williams will summarize the VCOD amendment. We'll receive any public comments and questions.
Written comments that we've received uh will be summarized. Any questions or concerns from the planning board will be discussed. I will then close the public hearing and then we will have a vote. So, let me read into the record
the public notice. Public hearing notice. Yarmouth planning board. The Yarmouth Planning Board will hold a public hearing on Wednesday, March 4th, 2026 at 5:30 p.m. in the hearing room of the Yarmouth town offices 1146 Route28 South Yarmouth Mass
02664 and via remote access from their website or via telephone 3017158592 and entering webinar ID 898-3641-5124 to consider the following proposed
amendments to section 414 village center overlay district of the army Zoning bylaw number one, amend section 414.6.4 relief to allow for zoning relief for maximum front yard setbacks from Route
28 to be via a special permit rather than a variance. Number two, amend section 414.3 special permits to add special permit criteria for front yard setback
requirements related to land takings or permanent easements taken as part of the Massachusetts Department of Transportation Mass DOT Route 28 corridor improvement projects. Copies of the complete proposed text of the
amendments are available at the planning department in Yarmouth Town offices 1146 Route 28 South Yarmouth Mass 02664 during business hours 8:30 a.m. to 4:30 p.m. Monday through Friday and on the
town of Yarmouth website under the planning division. Any person wishing, interested, or wishing to be heard on this proposal to amend the zoning bylaw should appear at the time and place designated. Written comments will be accepted and should be directed to the planning board care of Kathy Williams,
town planner at kw williamsyarmath.mma. us no later than March 3rd, 2026 at 5:00 pm. Yarmouth planning board chair Joanne Crowley. Kathy, if you will. >> We only have the one article, which is
good. So, what are we trying to do? The purpose of the article uh is related to the VCOD maximum front yard setback. And what we're looking for is to allow relief from the maximum front yard setback um via a special permit rather than a variance along Route 28 in the village center overlay district. So,
what exactly does that mean? Uh our current bylaw um the VCOD was really created to promote having buildings closer to the street so we could create that village feel to uh in order to promote that three of the four villages actually uh are subject to a maximum front yard setback in in addition to the
minimum. So we're used to the minimum set back from a street or from a road or from a property line. We've actually set a maximum one along Route 28 because we wanted those buildings to be a little bit closer. So So what's the issue that's that's arisen? Um, Mass DOT is coming to town and they're looking to do
some Route 28 streetscapes improvements really uh to help us with our pedestrian and bicycle safety and accommodations. Uh, and in order to kind of fit that in um the existing rightway, it's not going to quite fit all of those components. So, they need a little bit of strip takings on some of the properties along
Route 28. That's going to vary by individual property and some people would be very lightly hit and other people might be more significantly hit. Um, so what we've been finding when we're working with developers is they're trying to design to the current lot lines. Um, but by doing so when Mass DOT
comes in and it does that taking, they're going to be creating a non-conformity. Now their building is going to be closer than the minimum front yard setback. They also might be close to um, you know, a traffic amenity that they may not want their building that close to. Um, so in order right now they're saying, "Oh, I know Mass DOT is
coming. They're going to do a strip taking. I'd like to set my building a little bit further back. I got the room to do that. Um, unfortunately, in order to do that and and and be beyond that maximum front yard setback, that would be done via a variance from the zoning board of appeals versus a special
permit. As we all know, variances are a little bit harder to get. There's a different criteria associated with it. Um, and there's less certainty with regard to getting them than with a special permit. So, a lot of people out there might be saying, "What's the Phil Centers overlay district and where's that?" So, um,
we're very used to it. So, it's very hard for us sometimes to um to to kind of forget that other people may not know, but it actually is like runs of approximately like one-third of Route 28. And we start at Winsslow Grey Road in South Sea on on the west end. We come eastward and go um past the Parker's
River. I'm not sure if you can see I can't see my um my arrow. Um comes through all the way along Route 28, past the stop and shop area, all the way almost to Town Hall. And there's four separate villages that are located in there with slightly different standards in in each one of them to hopefully
create a slightly different feel among the villages. Um so what is Mass DOT looking to do? Um this is a typical section that Mass DOT is working on right now. They have almost at 75% design on the portion of the route 28
corridor from Parker's River westward into Barnstable. Um, but just so everyone knows, they're also just going to start getting going on design for the segment from Parker's River eastward to match the uh Bass River Bridge project that's going on now. And they're going
to try and look for a similar section for uniformity throughout throughout the town. So, as you all know, we kind of have our two lanes of traffic. We have maybe a couple couple feet on the sides of shoulders and then we have sidewalks most of the time on both sides, but not always. there's some gaps and there's
some uh some serious issues with handicap accessibility uh as well. So, what they're proposing to do is having two 11 foot travel lanes so our cars are going to be able to and our trucks are going to be able to move around. We're going to have five foot um bike lanes on each side. So, bicyclists who's comfortable being in the roadway will
have a much safer area to be on the south side, which is the left side here. There's going to be a five and a half foot sidewalk with a little curb. Typical sidewalk that you see. But on the south side, what they're looking to do is have a curb, but then a five- foot green strip where you could plant some street trees, uh, and then a 10- foot
wide shared use pathway. So, the south side of Route 28 is going to have a a shared use pathway all the way along, uh, its southern side. Uh, unfortunately, um, the right of way for Route 28, some some sections are 40 feet, some sections widen out for
various reasons, uh, and obviously has less impacts on abuing properties because of that. But you can tell putting in that shared use pathway is really kind of exceeding a little bit and that's where the strip takes takings are coming from. It's important to note that the center line of the road might also be slightly adjusted. So it's not
always hitting just the south side. Sometimes it's going to be a little bit different as we're going along. So how does this impact someone who's actually trying to build something? Uh this is just kind of showing an illustration of a property along Route 28. I wish you
could see my um arrow on the screen, but We basically are showing the minimum front yard setback we set 15 feet here and then the maximum at 25 ft. So you can nicely uh put a building in have some modulations and having it go back and forth and have an interesting architecture within this 15 to 25 foot
area. You can have your driveway coming in off Route 28 and have parking in the rear. All looks great. We're meeting our our goals of the VCOD. But what happens when the mass DOT comes in and they take a strip taking and again for ill illustrative purposes we showed it might vary across the front
here. Uh you can see that trying to once that building is constructed and the and the taking is done we're now like um six feet or nine feet away from the edge of basically the roadway layout. So we're not even meeting the minimum front yard setback uh any any longer. Um,
so one thing I do want to bring up just so that people understand is that um, if they haven't heard about this yet, it's because Mass DOT is is waiting until they finalize the 75% design plans because they want to be sure that they know what the takings that they need before they go ahead and do the
appraisals and the review appraisals and then start reaching out to people about uh, compensation. They have a whole process that they need to go through for fair compensation if they're taking people's land. So, I don't want people to be worried about that. If you haven't been notified yet, it's coming. Uh, and and you will be compensated.
So, what the um the amendment does is allow you designing your project today. You know that the that the taking is coming. It allows you to design your your um building a little bit further back so that you're going to meet the requirements um once the taking is done
uh and allow you to do it through a special permit request from the zoning board of appeals instead of a variance. I think under these circumstances you might be able to get a variance because I think the ZBA would understand these are circumstance outside your control. They're related to the shape of the lot, that type of thing. But it's more, like
I said, it's more of an unknown. So, let's let's make it a little bit easier. let's make it a special permit criteria instead of instead of a variance. Um and again this will help avoid um future nonconformities um once the takings are done. And so what are the next steps? Um today
we have our public hearing um and public comments possible changes. I don't see anybody here. Um and then voting on the recommendation. We're going to go before the uh the select board on March 10th and talk about the zoning articles and hopefully they'll vote to recommend uh
and then on March 24th the select board finalizes the warrant and the annual town meeting is on Tuesday, April 28th. And so just kind of opening it up to questions and comments. I would note that if people out there in the public do have some questions with regard to the Mass DOT corridor project, the ones
going from Parker's River Westwood that's in the 75%, you should contact the Mass DOT project manager Tom Courier at thomas.h.currier curr at doot.state.mma us and it's there up on the screen uh
for you. Um planning board does not have any of these answers so you really need to talk to Mass DOT as a state highway. They're the ones who who have the answers for that. That's it. Questions from the board comments?
>> Makes perfect sense is my comment. >> Gather. Does it affect any of the current projects? We've already sort of reviewed the BCOD projects. The nine unit apartment building on 28. Can't remember the address. >> You mean you had one that was already sort of tight with parking and
>> 811? Is it 811? >> No. No. The former laundry Which one are we talking about? >> Not the laundry. The um >> by the China old Chinese restaurant >> next to the park. >> No, number three. >> It's uh closer to where um >> see that
>> balding used to be there on the other side of the street on the south. >> That's the part that's east of Parker River. So there's no design plans to talk to. >> No, this one's not east. This is um Oh gosh. >> No. Yeah. Which one are you talking? >> It's only a part. It's only eight units of housing. >> That's 811.
>> 811. >> Yep. So that's east of Parker's River and so we don't have any design plans for people to look at. Um so it makes it a little bit harder. That's why it's good that they're going to start getting into the design phase and start doing some preliminary plans so they can start
kind of seeing what it might look like and what the impacts might be. Um the other projects that we have um at 645 Route 28, which you'll be seeing at your next meeting, is a mixeduse development that has um 11 units in it and um two
commercial. And that's really the project that caused a lot of concerns because they were going to really be impacted because they happened to be a slightly larger taking in front of their property. Again, that's the part of the Mass DOT project that's almost at 75%. So they got pretty solid rightaway plan requirements now. So they have a very
good understanding of what they're doing. >> That's the old huran gourmet. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Kathy, we I don't have my street numbers memorized. So in the future on Route 28, if you could just help us with a little more citing information when you say an address, I would speaking of 611 is the
old gardener tile building. >> Ah, got it. >> No, 81 >> 703 is the gardener building. That's okay. >> That's just east of Parker's River. Um, and that one actually benefited from the fact that there's a provision in the VCOD that says if um, your structure is
going to be within 100 feet of the intersection of Route 28 and the Parker's River, you need to be at least 30 feet back because we wanted to make sure that people had the viewscape and a building wasn't going to be right up blocking. Isn't >> that near where the pump station's going? >> Which one? >> Isn't that where the re the relocated
pump station is going for the sewer? >> It's on the other side. Right on the other side. >> Other side. Okay. It's all in that same neighborhood. >> That's where they're relocated. >> Pump station two. No, >> the pump station's on the other side of Packers River. >> There's a pump station 3 that's located at the Parkers River Landing,
>> but pump station 2 is way to the west. >> Oh, I'm sorry. Okay, man. We need a map. I need a map. Sorry. Not everybody else on this board does. My apologies and I interrupted you. Please go ahead, Peter. >> I'm sorry. >> I think this kind of helps you like the six. You can't
>> Well, can you I mean, obviously the people at home are going to suffer, but would you mind just like standing up and pointing some of these places out, please? I'm sorry for the people at home if they can't see it. >> This is 28, >> which is the which unit, >> right? Because the park is next to it.
That's T Y is Parker's River. Okay. >> Yep. Sorry. You can take the mic like Vanna White. >> Yeah, I know. Six dwelling units. Um >> in three duplexes. >> AC. >> So, it's really that one on the the green one. It's really the green one that's the most affected in the short
term by this amendment. >> Correct. And this is the one that that identified the concerns that we that we had. But if you look at the rightaway plans, this this side gets hit >> pretty hard with the shared use pathway in the rightway plans. >> So we want to provide relief, but
understanding that most of the VCOD is actually east of the Parker River in the next phase. So um again, this will give some additional relief from there. I think eventually we're going to need to take a harder look at potential impacts associated with the mass DOT projects, but this is just certain projects. We
wanted to make sure that we weren't holding them up or causing them grief who are generously enough investing in the town of Yarmouth. >> But it does go to your point which is what about the major what about everybody else and their planning and their work? >> The project I was thinking of was across from the old Irish village. There's a
vacant lot on the other side and there was we talked about we were concerned about parking and the fire department turn 81 Silver Cloud or whatever it is right next to the Silver Cloud. >> It's a couple. >> It's a long narrow lot just past Silver
Cloud Tower. >> One of these lots here. >> So, they're on the south side >> and they're going to have the most taking. >> Right. >> Right. It was the wider path. >> Right. And they had a tight site to start. >> Big hydrant issue. >> There were spots, Kathy, correct me if I'm wrong, that the discussion was that
it's going to shift a little to the north even though the path may be to the right. >> Yeah. If you if you look especially like some areas a little bit westward like when you're near Baxter Grismill they wanted to make sure that um maybe that's not the right one. There's some places where they moved the center line a little bit obviously because
there's radiuses and curvatures that they want to enhance uh in in the design but also if there was like an environmental issue or wetland they wanted to give a little bit more room to and they could move the center line. Uh and there are different right ofway widths throughout Route 28. the the um
rightaway in front of 645 Route 28 actually jogs out a little bit. That's why the end on the right side has less of a strip taking than on the west side. So there's a lot of variations um for it. >> They don't shift it north, for example, like down by like
Scapacio's Bakery is >> you'll have you'll have a drive up window because I mean that's how close it is. So >> yeah, there there's some places in especially in western uh Yarmmouth where they have like a one foot green strip
anyway, >> right? >> Uh and there are some people who have parking right up against it that that might be impacted. So I believe Mass Dot is trying to find other alternative locations for parking and or that will be part of their compensation. But you still need X amount of parking to have a
viable property, >> right? Um I think that issue is the parking rate is a big issue at the um Irish place. >> Sons of >> right sons of because they're right up on the sidewalk. >> Those parking spots are going. >> They should go. >> They're going. >> That looks hideous. They should go.
>> Well, there you go. >> And they have plenty of So I don't And I don't think that will impact their ability to do business. They have a huge parking lot back there. >> I don't think they're not that big. >> There's like five along the front of business. There's about There's more than Yeah, there's five or six along the front
>> and then there's a couple up against the building itself >> and then there's the back and then they use the vacant lot next. Yeah. Right. Next to it. Right. >> So, there's certainly lots of unknowns which makes it a little bit more difficult. >> Um and as they get further along with the development and start the design on
the east end, east side of Parker River, we'll know more. So, the fact that they're starting that is positive so that we kind of know what's going on. Um, but there's still still a long way to go. Just trying to look at it from a zoning perspective. >> When you look at the new gas station
that they're building now, it's all it's it's going to it's interesting because it's well, not interesting, but it's it's close to the street, so much closer than everything else is. >> Jark Jark. Yeah. So, when you envision that sort of, you know, not every property, but as Route 28's developed, there's going to be a really close building, then set back close, set back.
It's going to it's going to be interesting to see it. >> Yeah. That's the section of Route 28 that has an 80 foot wide rightway. That was a 1933. I actually looked back because I thought, "Oh, did they take that?" We had had the conversation uh last time as to whether um
>> there's so much that's located within the rightway and I don't know how that actually happened because that's a 1933 >> 80 foot rightway there. >> Yeah. Once you get to the intersection of old is it old right >> Wood Road. >> Wood Road.
>> Wood Road. >> Long Bon Bond Road. >> Long Bond. >> Sorry. Old Maine. >> Old Maine. >> Is that Old Maine? >> Old Maine. Intersection of Old Maine. Then it turns in Route 28 turns into >> down to the bridge. >> Down to the bridge. >> Maybe not all the way down to the bridge.
>> Uh because there was a historic developments there already. But >> I just one other follow-up question if I may, Madam Chair. So the project that we've talked about the most is the one at the old laundromat. That's >> but that
>> the chapter chapter 40B project. >> Yeah, that one. >> But and that's within the VCOD. >> Correct. >> But not part of any plans that we have from Mass DOT on >> but it's because it's east of the river. So we're not there yet. >> Correct. But I guess what I don't
understand is if we know it's coming and the state but the state hasn't the state says it's coming but the state hasn't gotten to the right percentage then as Peter said originally well what do you say to the developers? >> That's the unknown. That's the unknown. And and and I think I think it becomes
more of a of an issue in the VCOD because we don't know because we've had that maximum front yard setback. So we're forcing people to be close. I see. >> Um versus like a 30 foot minimum then you know if you had a 30 foot minimum and they needed to take a 10ft strip or it's not ideal but it's doable but if
you're already at 15 ft and they then that's something different. >> So >> and then so then how do you so Kathy do you feel a responsibility to be proactively talking to people anybody that's east of Parker's River that you
know that have projects that have come before you or before us? I'm usually the person telling people about it. >> So, you are you are I mean, I'm not surprised to hear you say that. That's great. It >> it can be a little bit uncomfortable like um the the uh water park,
>> you know, I think I was the person that mentioned it to them first that that BM's going to potentially be impacted and they needed to reach out to Tom Courier and get the latest plans and and move forward with that. again, they need to go through their whole compensation. And if you're taking away a burm and you
need to reconstruct it, that should be part of your compensation. >> Yeah. >> Mhm. >> And they're expanding. So, the burm is going to be expanding, too. >> Right. But that's why I brought it up is like you might want to build the burm a little bit further away because they're coming. >> That burm's not that big, right?
>> No. And it's works really well. >> Oh, yeah. It's filled with flowers. It's filled with roses. It really looks nice. >> Yeah, they did a nice job. >> Yeah. Anything else from the board? Uh, so may I have a motion to close the public? >> You know, there's no written comments.
>> No written comments. Okay. >> There's somebody online, but they haven't raised their hand. So, >> if if we're at that point, Madam Chair, if you want, >> we are. We are. I don't want to close if someone's there. >> Well, they haven't raised their virtual hand. >> I see a name. >> It says Terry Sorrow. Did I say that
right? >> Something, do you want Do you have any comments you'd like to make? They just muted their mic. >> Yeah. Well, guess not. >> I guess not. >> That's a clear sign. >> Okay. >> The red the red the red the red line
says no. >> Do you need a motion to close the public session? >> Yeah. May May I have a motion to close the public hearing? >> So moved. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I >> I >> uh any further deliberations uh by the board? >> I just want to bring up something that I usually do when we have these kind of
situations. Madam Chair, if either you or Kathy have made the zoning board of appeals aware >> of what's going on and you know >> they'll they'll potentially have some more some more work to do down the road >> over the next one to question mark
number of years. >> Okay. >> Yeah. And invited to the meeting or provide comments. >> Okay. Thank you. >> So um may I have a motion to recommend zoning article one? >> I'm sorry. >> Sorry. Did we vote on closing?
>> Yes, we did. I'm sorry. And the time is >> 556. >> Thank you. Uh, may I have a motion to recommend zoning article one, draft number two, dated February 5th, 2026 to amend zoning
bylaw section 414, village center overlays district to allow zoning relief for maximum front yard setbacks from Route 28 to be via a special permit rather than a variance.
>> So moved. >> Second. Any discussion? All in favor? >> Great. >> No. >> Do we want to um identify who would move, recommend, and explain?
>> Moved and I think dear second. >> No, no, no. I mean the actual motion at town meeting. Sorry. >> I'll do it. Okay. So, I'll include this in um this information about what happened at the
meeting uh in a little memo saying that the planning board has recommended >> and picking up on what will said, you're going to have a map, right? So that you can visually show people if someone says, "I don't understand what you're talking about." You can show that and we can have that include the PowerPoint. >> Good. That slide will help folks at town
meeting, much less the select board. >> Yeah. I was kind of thinking this would be a quick presentation to give at town meeting. >> Yes. Um, >> I think it's reasonable for people to ask. Yeah. So, it's always more reasonable to um >> it's really we're being proactive to
ease the development along 28. That's really what >> the goal of this is. >> It Yeah, it's a simple change from a zoning standpoint, but it opens up a lot of other very very good questions. >> Yeah. So, I'll I'll work up a memo um with the
PowerPoint um for the select board meeting because we're meeting with them on the 10th >> to talk about zoning and also seasonal communities. Um I mentioned it to Joanne. Unfortunately, we're after all of the public hearings the >> on the 10th >> on the 10th.
>> Yeah. that all the hearings that were on the the 25th that got delayed got relocated ahead of that and then there's all that >> the liquor hearing all the gone >> and then there's us at the end >> and get a first sleep in before you.
>> The next item on our agenda is regarding definitive subdivision number 1648H modification two. Uh Kathy, you want to run us through what you need from us tonight? I you, as I understand it, we just need to have this publicly
recognized. >> I have brought the myar and one copy. Um it has gone through the 20-day appeal period with no one appealing. It has been signed off on by the town clerk certifying as such. So, we're just ready to sign officially on the document. Um we can do it at the end of the meeting
because there's there's no one here. And then I will notify them um to come pick up the um the myar. I do need to work up um an agreement which basically just outlines all of the waiverss that we gave all in one place so that they
record that along with the myar and once that's all recorded um what they're going to do is actually ask to release the lot and so we'll release it from all the previous covenants all the previous agreements they're all done and then they'll be able to um get their building permit issued for that for that lot
that's been a lot since 2005 >> Kathy when you say recorded it's recorded at the courthouse Yes, the registry. >> So, we'll sign after the meeting. Is it just Is it just me or >> you? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Uh, next on our agenda are seasonal communities. Uh, discussion on seasonal
communities designation and required zoning amendments associated with it. um and uh a draft letter Kathy has prepared uh to the select board um as well as a summary of the written comments that
many of you sent into her which I want to thank you for and that she's incorporated into this memorandum. >> I think part of the questions are some things um that we can talk about and ask maybe through that Kate planners meeting
that's happening next next Friday. um this Friday. I don't know. It's it's some Friday. Um but I think what what I tried to do was take everything that I heard you guys say previously along with the concerns
that were expressed in the in the last planner memo and try and put it into um something that would go to the select board. There's no attachments to this because Bob Written is already going to include the PowerPoint presentation, the regulations, and some other overview information uh in it. So, this would
just be coming um from you guys. >> Julian, may I speak? >> Yes, of course. >> I had sent in just a quick email this afternoon, you may not have received it. >> I did. >> Um I'm just recommending it that line that says although there are benefits to accepting this designation. >> Yeah, you want to take out this part.
>> I'm recommending it. I like the board's opinion, but I think that's >> I would just I would just start this right here in the first paragraph to right there. It says although there are benefits to accepting the designation, I would just start the sentence with the planning board is put together. I think it's kind of prejuditial and I
personally don't think there are any benefits. So >> that's the first question I asked when I read that. So what are the benefits? >> What are the benefits? Okay. >> So we'll cross that out and start with the >> otherise. I think it's otherwise I think it's good. The only other question I had is um last night at the select board
meeting there seemed to be some select board members who appeared in favor of seasonal communities. >> Definitely. >> Um so I don't know whether I mean you this this um recommendation in bold is pretty strong. I don't know whether you guys wanted to soften it or you feel comfortable
>> keep it bold. I would bold it and make it bigger. >> I when I say bold I meant it's just a bold statement. Uh, and whether you wanted to soften it or couch it in any way or whether you're comfortable with the way it is. >> I think it's perfect. Okay. I think it's very good.
>> Well, that that's >> so just just process-wise, this is up for discussion to be on the Springtown meeting warrant or it will be on the Springtown meeting warrant. >> We don't know. >> We don't know. >> It's a Wasn't on the draft warrant last. >> It's in the draft warrant. But that's still like everything else is up for
discussion over the next x number of meetings to meet all the deadlines. >> Correct. >> So our recommendation or not recommendation will have some impact but yet but then again it could still go on the warrant. Select board can say it's on the warrant and it'll show planning
board does not recommend and it'll show maybe select board does. So I guess >> although I go ahead >> well I just you know part of me gets a little hinky when it comes to you know preventing
in theory the >> let's say 20,000 registered voters to not weigh in >> oh I agree >> on on on this because we have this wonderful mechanism known as town meeting. Don't get me started, but that is the mechanism that we have. And so I feel reluctant to say to sort of tell
the select board they can't let the entire town >> discuss it at least or vote on it unless I'm missing a step in here. >> There is there's a there's a big step. Please. >> There's I think that there is a huge gap in information and you could we could
see it. Dearra and and Susan and I could see it last night at the the select board meeting. There were two members who were um enthusiastically in favor of it. And I can guarantee you, no insult to them,
they have no idea what's in it. >> Yeah. Understood. because I don't know everything that's in it. It is very complicated and we are learning and we need to learn so much more about it. It is not ready for prime time.
>> It simply is not ready for prime time. >> Well, the reason I bring this up, Madam Chair, is because it does say that these pieces have to be adopted within 24 months. And so, I guess what I'm asking is, let's just say it does get recommended to town meeting and let's just say it gets past the town meeting.
It does give us a clock, which is not a short clock to figure this out. I'm not saying that it's okay that there's an information gap that you've identified and you're concerned about, but there also is a provision in here that gives us the time or the select board the time or whatever the agencies and staff
people are the time to work it out. I'm not saying that's a good way to run the railroad, meaning that we've the state has come down from the mountain with these tablets and we don't have to we don't have to stamp them and say yay. And I get all that. I was just trying to understand the 24 months part and
whether that gives you some comfort. No, it does not. In fact, it gives you in fact it's the opposite, right? >> No, it does not opposite. >> Okay, got it. That's why we're having a discussion. >> I think I I think the movable tiny homes is a trap we do not want to get into.
>> Can I ask? >> And that is the sinker for me. >> Okay. And >> and it's not going to be removed from the regulations. It's in there. it's been approved by the legislature. And so that is the one thing that I think uh
for for me as a member of the board and as a member of the public, I would say crashes this immediately. >> And is it because our particular regulations in our town uh make this a hard one to swallow? Because there have been lots of other towns on the Cape that have said yes,
thank you so much, unless I missed a part. >> No, they have. They didn't have the regulations when they voted to accept. >> Oh, because the timing of when they they did this last fall or last spring. >> Nobody's done it recently. >> Okay. So, now if you're a town like East, I'm just using East Ham as an example. Now, they've gotten this memo
that says, "Oh, by the way, tiny houses are part of this and there's nothing you can do about it unless you unvote it or re vote to revoke it." Right? >> That's one of the questions we asked. I think some >> once you get the how do you get out of it? If you if you if you get the design now the remember
the first go round on this season we did not qualify because the percentage of our so they they came back the second year and said everyone's in the everyone's in the >> nobody qualifies >> the 24 hours is kind of misleading as Joanne said because >> 24 months
>> 24 months I'm sorry 24 feels like 24 hours 24 because it's it sounds like it gives you some discretion to do it is a mandatory change you must change your zoning >> within the 24 >> and as Duran pointed about one of them. One of the zoning changes takes away the
town's ability to prohibit mobile homes. >> That's the change. >> Exactly. >> And then you get the, you know, the loft size thing which isn't nearly as ownorous, but that is a serious >> Sure. >> removal from this town of its ability to to manage its land, to manage its
residential, and and is it's mandatory. And and Kathy even asked the question, I think at one of their little workshops, can you can you prohibit it? And they came back and said, "Oh, you can regulate it." Well, there was your answer. It means you can't. So, it's a it's a major major change in in land
use, quite frankly, Kate. >> Um, and I totally agree with you. I think the the members that were enthusiastic do not understand the implications of what's in this in this proposal. >> Thank goodness, there'll be a conversation about it in in a week. >> One would hope. That's what that also
was mentioned last night several times by the select board about having further discussions on this >> uh the uh chairwoman uh post >> uh was of the mind that we need to talk more about this and we need to talk more about it with us.
>> Right. I heard that part. >> Yeah. Uh and so I I thought that was favorable. But the the run to annual town meeting I think is a big mistake. I don't even know how we >> I I I think that's the consensus of the
board as well. >> Definitely. We just don't have enough time to thoroughly vet it and understand it and if we had to make changes, what would they be? What's the implica? There's been no risk in I mean there's just a lot of work that has to be done on this. Uh it is not a simple tiny
homes thing. It's not. It's much more. It's the impact of that and we need an impact understanding and a lot of the residents as you know are not even here now. That's the other thing. And one of the gripes that you hear all the time from from quote the summer people is that things happen and they're not here.
Um this is a significant change and and the closer we get it to, you know, a season where we can get more more citizen participation, the the more feedback we'll get, the more information we'll get, the more reaction we'll get as opposed to being, you know,
criticized for running something through the middle of March when no one's around >> end of April. Sorry. >> Yes. Sorry, whatever. >> I know. Well, that that does make a difference. >> Um, but I understand where you're coming from. >> It would still need to go through the whole zoning amendment process and could very easily be voted down at town meeting,
>> right? >> Um, you know, which would probably result in us being the designation being revoked. We do have the ability to we get into it to do it the same exact process, majority vote at town meeting to say we want to get out of it. So,
there's a lot of mechanisms that that that help us. But um and maybe who knows maybe if there's enough uprise they may want want to modify the regulations and change that. But the fact that you are using a definition uh for a dwelling unit related to
chapter 90 motor vehicles and aircrafts tells you everything you need to know that those two should never be touching. >> Did you say that in the memo? >> Yes. or to pointing out that No, I understand.
>> We can say that at the meeting. >> Um >> Peter, any any any further thoughts? >> I Yeah, I am in agreement with everything. I mean, we're I keep saying this, we're the most densely developed town on >> Cape Cod
>> and um we have problems with water supply. All our wells aren't online. We got PA fast and all we want to do is just add add without solving some of the other problems for >> Mr. Smith. >> Well said what Peter just said. Full agreement. Can
>> I just have one quick followup? Are there other communities that are in the same situation as we are right now that are considering this now that the regulations have actually come down from the mountain? I was looking at this chart. Um but
>> yeah, >> sorry. I guess it's the second table, not the first one. The first one has the ones that already got it. >> No, the first table, >> right? And then the people that are bold actually have adopted it as of January. >> So, our friends in Brewster, Dennis, and Harwitch are in a similar boat
potentially. >> Correct. They Yes, they have not. >> I don't know whether they have it on their annual town meeting. >> Well, I just it might and again, Kathy, you said you were going to a meeting of town planners. Yeah, >> I really do think it would be worth a conversation with those three town planners that or whoever happens to be
at that meeting just to kind of understand like >> are you know we feel like we're on pretty reasonable solid ground here in this particular issue of tiny houses. Is that what you're hearing at your planning board? I'm not saying that their answer would sway us either way, but it you know this is one of the
fascinating >> know if it's on their annual >> That's what I It's one of the fascinating things about living in the place that we do is that we're, you know, a glorious hodgepodge of is it 14 or 15? >> 15 >> 15 towns. Um, despite the fact that we have a regional planning agency, but in
this particular case, it's the state going to the towns, not not to the region. Um, and I would hope and it would seem reasonable that they would have a similar response now that the regulations are live. And also conversely, I wonder how the folks feel
in the towns that did accept it without the regulations knowing that now now that they're going to be allow be forced to accept tiny homes. >> Yeah. >> Or maybe we get a new governor and it goes away. >> I don't know.
>> But there also is a process, like you said, for each town to unhook themselves from these reg, you know, from this through a town meeting vote. Okay. Uh so I think um good we've got one adjustment to the memo uh we're all in agreement with and Susan and
>> just one other comment on the the recommendation line where it says clarifications could be made and outstanding question answered. Is there any way we could just put a comma as well as I don't know something about public participation, encourage public participation, engage the public or I'd
like to interject into that sentence getting the public, you know, we we're going to answer the questions. We're going to do the investigations and we also want the public's reaction. Is there any way we could add some sort of phrase in there about public participation or public reaction or
public involvement, public impact, something like that? >> That's a that's a good idea. >> I'm I'm sure we can trust Kathy to figure that out. >> Just, you know, >> just throw something in there about, you know, our recognition that the public
needs to be aware of this and our role in that. >> Yeah. Maybe community outreach or >> city outreach, something like that. It'll be an interesting discussion next week. I look forward to hearing it. >> Madam Chair, it's it is it is it is frustrating to think that we just finish with the, you know, long-term
comprehensive plan after spending six months on the lobster issue and then we want to get some traction and do something that we want to do, we take care of, and then this might just derail whatever plans we had to actually take care of some of the things that >> we need to take care of.
>> That's right. The selectman don't seem to maybe understand that. Maybe, you know, >> we've been derailed on ADUs. >> Well, yeah, I had a question about that. >> Now, we've been um we may be derailed, but >> I think I think the memo is good, Kathy,
if we put in public outreach or community involvement. >> Something like that. >> Community engagement or something. I'll put something in. >> Yeah. >> And something like as as usual the planning committee's outreach efforts
are the commitment to community in addition to doing the normal stuff. I think >> Peter, are you suggesting we also add something um more specific with regard to the development of the plan and how much you know how how long it took and how thoughtful it was or um
>> right. this wasn't part of the long-term comprehensive plan, right? These these sort of bylaw changes were not part of it. So, you know, >> this is all state driven. >> I mean, that's another sort of example of why we need more time to understand how this might change long-term comprehensive plan.
>> I do say something about on the second page at the top about the movable tiny homes is inconsistent with the vision for our community as outlined in our recently adopted local comprehensive plan. >> Okay. Okay, >> you put that in bold.
>> I can do that if you want. >> Wants the whole thing. >> Bold statement. That should be the title of the memo. A bold statement from the planning board. >> It's It's a fun pun. It's a fun pun and yet it is also true. >> Anything else?
>> Okay. Uh let's move on to short-term rental study and our meeting last night with the select board um with the uh presentation by the Donahghue Institute. >> Kathy, you want to give us a quick summary? I know you were carefully
taking notes, but I can add >> Did the minutes. >> Yeah. So that because >> they were right there. >> You were busy. >> You already fired out the minutes. >> Unbelievable. >> Um >> it was a very good conversation. I thought so. Um, you know, there seemed
to be a lot of strong interest in providing incentives and assistance to encourage people to rent their properties year round. You know, more of the offering the carrots versus the sticks with stricter regulations. Um, understanding that we're going to need multiple strategies would be needed. Um,
as regulating the short-term rentals alone isn't going to be solving our problem because we still have a high percentage of seasonal housing. Putting a cap on short-term rentals doesn't necessarily mean that those are going to turn into year round. They just could be continue to be seasonal um housing units. What I think is very telling of
the data was the percentage of seasonal housing through the decades. >> You haven't seen a big jump. >> You haven't seen a If we saw like a 30% to a, you know, a 38% or something, then I'd be like, yeah, we're losing our year- round housing to that. But that
number's been steady. Um so the the changes might be going from >> seasonal not not renting it to maybe some people doing the short-term rentals. There's definitely some people in there who are the um or the commercial type people, but overall that
the seasonal whether it's privately owned seasonal for your personal use or use the short-term rental is really staying the same. So that made me actually feel a little bit better. Um uh the report um I guess there were some discussions with regard to definitive
answers from the report. I think Bob Written stepped in at this point and did an excellent job of summarizing it. Yeah, he really was. He's noted that short-term rentals um he really felt that they only impact um year- round housing very marginally and are not the
significant driver. You know, our seasonal short-term rentals are five to 8% depending on what data you're using of our housing stock. And this is really far less than what uh other seasonally oriented communities are seeing where they're really concerned about short-term rentals changing the entire
housing market. So, we're not even close close to that. Um and he said as well as if we reduce the number of short-term rentals who are cap there's no guarantee this will generate that year- round affordable. Joanne said the same thing. If you squeeze the box, does affordable housing come out? Probably not. Or not a
lot of it anyway. Um, so it really felt like he gave a nice summary that he didn't feel like there was um the sheer numbers were overwhelming of short-term rentals and really focusing on incentives to convert uh for the conversion. He did talked about not everyone wants to be a landlord uh and
you know what other um legal or financial assistance might be able to provide. So those types of programs to help people and educate people about what converting might mean to them. Um he further noted that you know short-term rentals are a significant um economic driver here in town and you
don't necessarily want to be putting you know water on that engine uh because we really we really need it and again mentioning you know obviously it's for our our wastewater funding is significantly funded or a good chunk of it 75% of short-term rental excise tax
goes to our wastewater program. Um, and then they did talk about he felt they did talk about the fact that our existing short-term rental bylaw and I gave you guys a copy of of that um does provide a lot of safeguards with regard to those quality of life uh issues um
that are being like parking and length of stay. Um and then Tracy um Tracy was very supportive of Bob's comments as well. Um, and she basically also talked about how not only do we need to look at, you know, incentives, but she said
if she you were thinking of anything looking at anything else, she's like, well, maybe we look at the caps on the corporate. Uh and then she also recommended pushing our legislators about something that uh about the legal and judicial system you know the housing court related around um you know the the
tenants uh because people are you know getting burned sometimes being landlords especially during COVID and that type of thing or if you need have a a tenant you need to evict and how long that takes in the process and and and the money it costs. Um, but she did recommend having
a housing forum once everyone had had a chance to digest the short-term rental study and also we had had maybe a chance to kind of look a little bit more closely at the shortterm rental and see if we want to what what think changes we might be interested in making. Um,
Dorcas noted that she was surprised that there were fewer short-term rentals and outside investors than she had thought they would be. And of course, she was also supportive of um incentivizing it to make it more attractive. Uh Joanne did a great job given a summary of the planning board's uh thoughts with regard
to the purpose of the analysis and you know that whether that's really going to be increasing the stock and that the planning board is really focusing on um looking at making improvements to our existing short-term rental zoning ball and not really making whole whole holistic changes and looking at some
other communities that have actually enacted these. Um yeah, and the I guess the last thing is Joanne also talked about maybe looking at the quality of life issues again. Um there's some things in there that I think we just need to kind of pick at it a little
bit. So some changes that have happened um since that was written is now short-term rentals are in the building code and need to be inspected by building officials. So there's some things in there that we might want to tweak how that how that gets worded. I know that Liz had a question about
whether somebody was available within two hours, whether I thought it was, but it's not in there. It just says you need to have a local contact available 24 hours. Um, so looking at at those types of things um would be good. Um, and I
think the real key issue is connecting people who have a complaint about a short-term rental with the people who can actually do something about it. And there seems to be some type of of gap there because a lot of these things are happening um out of regular business hours. So people aren't calling the building department, they're calling the
police and we need to be sure that when these things are happening that that information somehow gets back um to the building department. We need to work with the police department um to to kind of facilitate that. >> Um otherwise I thought it was I thought it was a great conversation. I don't really think we need to do a lot of
holistic stuff, but we do have a couple areas to look at quality of life issue things. you know, maybe we do want to tweak those a little or maybe there's a couple things that we want to add in. Um, looking at the corporate uh a little bit closer. Um, and then a lot of the other things that they're talking about are outside the zoning bylaw, kind of
outside the the planning board's perview. It's more in part of the housing and or affordable housing trust and the incentives and things like that. So, it was good. >> Kathy, I would make one suggestion. I noticed that um the comments of um Mark
Forest are not included anywhere. I don't see them specific to him. >> Questioned, >> he was pretty direct. >> Well, I said that this report may not have provided definitive answers on the extent of short-term rental pressures in the year- round housing, but may be valuable to the planning board for update finetuning this. >> I'm sorry, where? Oh, it's the last
bullet. >> Last bullet. >> It's the last bullet right here. >> Under what section, Kath, >> the first page, >> the initial feedback section on the first page >> right here. I didn't want to get into naming people because then you have to name everybody. >> Well, you named three. >> You did name some people.
>> I named Bob and and Joanne because they gave like President Tracy, Liz, and Doris. >> Oh, later. Yeah, I did because those I could cover all those people, but >> uh I I I'd like to add in something about >> questioning the the consultant as you
know, his his direct question. Is there is there a correlation between um the growth of short-term rentals and the loss of affordable housing? Um and he >> he didn't get he didn't he didn't get an answer, but I
>> but I I know that he feels strongly that there isn't a connection. >> Well, the data shows that very if there's a correlation all it's very weak. >> Um >> until we know the addresses of these properties, we're never going to know. >> You'll never know. >> Never know. Yeah, I mean that goes to
Doris's comment about the corporate um you know because I recall some place I don't know who survived the data that the corporate rentals in Yamoth are extremely low. I mean the numbers are below like a dozen >> um companies around you know and I
forget who where we got that but I remember think study >> yeah I I remember thinking boy that's that's really that's really good news because we don't have you know the company but I was shocked at how low it was um so I'm thinking are we really going to try to do a regulation
for for 12 homes is the juice really worth the squeeze um and and I I think that was one of the ideas that came out last night where there's, >> you know, the research question that Mark asked weeks ago was, is there a nexus
>> between short-term rentals and and affordable housing? And based on that report and the refined report, they went back and made some changes. Um, if there is one, it's very weak. And there's certainly not I don't think they can prove causality that
there's, you know, that the the short-term rentals are having an impact on affordable housing. I just don't think the data is there. And I think that's what Mark wanted to hear. The UMass people weren't ready to say it because they didn't want, you know, how hard it is to prove causality, >> but
the tone was there that we do not have a problem with short-term rentals impacting affordable housing. maybe other reasons that we can't do, you know, we pro, but it's not short-term rentals. >> Yeah, Kathy. >> Yeah, I would just say um you know, some of the data that that Peter has sent out
to us shows that Yarmouth is being actively marketed for commercial investment. So, yes, you know, you're only as good as the data and the errors of margin that the data has. And I think that there's a lot of gaps in the data from um >> the UMass down human. They got they
scraped everything that they could, but there's still a lot of gaps. They never even looked at things related to real estate agents and and that type of thing. Um >> they recycled a lot of their data too from other you know province town reports and other places too. So >> So just did point out that they had
LLC's that could have been masking >> right as that kind of thing. >> So without really diving into the data much more you know minutely than they did we can say that it's not an obvious problem. We can't say it's not a problem and we can't say that it's not going to
be a problem five years from now because we did nothing about it. Right. >> So even if we put something in place to try and deal with that. Um it may save us from having a problem later. And may maybe Peter you could um talk a little bit about the whole idea of the the Delmare where they basically
>> Oh Delmare. Yeah. Delmare out of Orleans. I mean, they're they're a a big this is their business is short-term rentals, you know, and they rent a lot of properties and then they rerent them to, you know, short-term stay. So, >> so it's not the same owner. It's a different owner, but it's a it's a
full-time commercial management business. >> For sure. They take over your property. They they take care of everything for you, you know. >> So, how we word it is something we need to to >> There's more and more of that industry popping up. >> Yes. You know, whether it be >> signs are right there in the yards when you're driving around the
>> street down here. >> Vicasa, isn't Vicasa one? That's >> right. >> Yeah. >> Vicasa, I think those were mentioned in one of the reports. >> Number of properties they had under management. >> There were three or four of them. Delmare, Vicasa, and one or two others. But, >> but just so it's clearly understood,
they're not corporately owned. They're corporately managed. There's a there's a difference. >> Yes. Right. Right. And I can see why people would want to have a manager even if it's just there. >> You don't have to worry about it then turn seasonal house for a couple of weeks.
>> I guess the question is is if you rent your property to Delmare, do you get to use it at all or is it >> you have to you block literally block weeks >> just like a time share. You block weeks for yourself. I I worked for a real estate company that did that at one
point in my career. And >> if you want to use it for the last week of July and the first week of August, you block it for yourself as as owner space. The rest of the time it's for rent. And you do that going into the season, you know. So, >> I was surprised at the number of of um
short-term rentals that were for more than 90 days. I didn't expect it to be that high. >> I was reacting to that as well. Then I realized they mean that the the unit was rented for more than 90 days, but it wasn't the actual rentals on those
charts in the report. >> It wasn't 90 consecutive days. >> No, of course not. It was just 90 days in a year. >> Days during a calendar year. >> 90 days. Yeah. But I was just surprised because I always envisioned it being more of the people like, oh, maybe I'll rent it for like, you know, the eight weeks during the summer or something.
reason typically when I was 60 days I was I was managing it was midappril and school vacation got out and it would actually carry all the way till Christmas in a lot of properties >> the people would come down for Thanksgiving and Christmas here in the Cape with their families >> I was surprised by that >> there was quite a bit of fall and early
winter >> and one of the thing I think we did a really good job and Mark has done a very good job on the quality of life issues and we we we did the the packing the noise the traffic um and by and large I think with although someone mentioned
last night that someone's having a problem hasn't been resolved, but I think the the the callers that we put around our short-term rentals and the to preserve the have have worked very well. >> Um I haven't heard anyone come we had one issue on a street near me. They
called Mark and literally I that's why I thought that two hours was correct. Within two hours um he had called the owner. They called Mark within two hours he called the owner and the owner actually drove down to the cake and took care of it. So
I say gold stars all around on that one. They've done a very good job. >> Actually that local management company is probably more ideal. >> Yes. >> Because because they have to respond right away. >> Not just the response >> the time to respond but the actual execution of the response would be
>> shorter. >> And they probably have staffing and and skill set to fix. does. They have staff. That's all they do. They make sure the trash is picked up. They make sure the the property is in appropriate shape and it's ready to go. It's a whole subset business that's >> come out of the rentals. People now
renting linen, delivering it to the properties, >> you know, it's pretty amazing that you can have your fridge stocked when you show up if that's what you want. So, >> concierge service. >> Can I ask just a question about where we are in the time space continuum?
>> You may this. So just again, I try to be the big picture guy sometimes. So we're working backwards from Septemberish, >> right? Because there'll be a fall town meeting in October or November. So, it feels like even though six months goes very fast, um it feels like there's
still time for what Chairwoman Post recommended, >> a small summit in the next 90 to 120 days at the most and then a public hearing at some point >> later in the summer >> with any or any amendments or anything else. Right. So, we're still like big
picture on course. >> We have the potential to definitely meet meet that. I know we talked maybe about extending the sunset for another year. We're in the middle of the process of something. >> That would be the that would be the simplest correct at this point. >> Yeah. The the other thing is is um you
know maybe we look at the quality of life things and we do one thing understanding that you know what we're going to get rid of the science clause. We're going to add these tweak these these quality of life things but then we'll we'll look more closely at the corporate part >> next time. You know we don't necessarily have to we don't it's not a huge issue
imminent issue. Um, but we want to get ahead of it, but maybe not quite ahead of it enough to get to special town meeting. So, there's certainly something I think I think actually the meeting last night made me feel a little bit more comfortable about the fact that we didn't have as much work to do as maybe
initially thought. >> Yeah, they certainly didn't indicate that they thought there had to be major changes, >> right? >> But don't you think they were sort of satisfied with >> Yeah, >> I agree with you. Yeah, >> thank you, Madam Chair. I just wanted to understand where we are in the big picture.
>> Keep us keep us on track here. Yes. >> Uh, next on our agenda, uh, Madakis utilization committee project update. >> Yes. Um, the blizzard put the kaibos on our on our February 25th community meeting. Um, but it's been this the snow
date was always March 11th and we are going to have our community meeting on March 11th. We did have a snow date. U, but I'm also going to try and do a little bit push more publicity. We got a news item out. um getting the posters over to you know the the libraries and things and there's going to be a social
media push um on Friday. Um and we're going to go over the kind of the whole thing and and the and the design concepts and see what the public has to say. Um so that's going on. Unfortunately, the next MUK meeting is the next night. So I don't uh we were
hoping to have the two weeks so that the consultant could process the comments and present them to the to the muck uh to see uh if they wanted to make any modifications or changes or something. So whether we have that meeting or or not, I'm not sure right now. Uh it kind of depends on whether it's going to be
valuable or not. If there's too many comments and there's too much processing that the BSC group needs to do, it may not make sense to necessarily meet, but we'll figure that one out. But definitely come to the community meeting. at 6 six o'clock here in this room on March 11th. Uh and also by remote access and it's on the town uh
meeting calendar, the town website calendar next week. >> I know >> it's crazy. >> Okay. Thank you, Kathy. Uh next in our agenda, meeting minutes. Uh may I have a
motion to approve the meeting minutes of February 18th? >> Some moved. Second. >> Any discussion? All in favor? >> I >> I >> I will abstain. >> I will abstain as well. >> Still passes.
>> Madam chair, you gonna do these as well? >> No, we're going to wait for the changes >> based on what we talked about earlier. Okay, >> those will be amended. Correct. >> Got it. >> Uh committee updates. >> Can I just mention something? Uh on the agenda last night at the port of
selectman, they had something on the agenda about um policy and regulations for use of the drive-in site. >> Yeah. >> Um I'm wondering as a member of that committee, maybe I should find out from someone what they talked about.
>> It was all about the event space. >> Right. Right. Right. But >> they asked about that last night whether the DICE was involved and it was >> No, we haven't. We >> I know you haven't been involved. We didn't know they if they had said to us, "Come up with some ideas," we would have. But but >> no, I I think at this point they kind of
felt like it's more of a staff level effort on that and Megan Eldridge and Jay Grandandy um have been taking the lead on that. >> Should I convene the DISA? I can at least go over what they recommended and maybe make have some comment from the committee back to the the board of
selectmen. I mean, we're still >> there's still a committee, but I think, you know, >> at some point there'll be a transition and we'll sort of >> I kind of envision that being the ribbon cut in ceremony, >> right? And then it's right. >> Yeah. >> I don't really think so. Okay. Um I mean, you can I can certainly mention it
to Megan and see if she's interested in in having the dice like me and getting input on that. She got a lot of input from the select board last night, so I think she has things to digest. It's not that different. Yeah. Um but one of the key things that they were really interested is having it something uh some clear distinguish
uh between a um a private event and then a town sponsored event. You know, if it's a town event or a town sponsored event, you know, what are our you know, you don't need a $2 million insurance policy or whatever. Uh and and lots of times it's just somebody trying to put
something together to help the town and all of a sudden they're asked about an insurance policy. So just making a differentiation between that and they still have to come up with the fees. They're still looking at uh what the fees would be and you know there's a lot of conversation uh last night with regard to you know the noise levels and
the concerns about that. Um but I think you know a lot of that we had already worked out postcoid with some of the events that we had there. We had the whole sound study done where you needed to orient the stage what the decibb needed to be and so there's been a lot of work that's been done since you know since
>> they move the stage and they >> yeah the orientation of the stage has to be very specific if you're having amplified and maybe you want to limit the number and we had talked about this when we did a solicitation uh about limiting the number of events period because we don't want events constantly all summer long there and then also
limiting the maybe the number of uh concerts that you would potentially have there just to be respectful of the neighbors uh and not be a situation where um they're disrupted all the time with with noise coming. >> Susan, last night's select board packet had the whole draft that Megan wrote of
the policy in case you want to sink your teeth into it. >> Copy of it. And then I think what I what I would recommend is we have one final meeting of the DICE and we sort of formally say we've reviewed the policy and as of the ribbon cutting uh the maintenance and management will that'll
be the time respon and you know sort of formally end the committee after we say we've reviewed >> we need to formally end the committee. I wanted to yeah I wanted to mention that >> this is a good time to do it. They've got the policy ready. They're going to have the ribbon cutting. It's good time to do it. >> Yeah. I wanted, you know, you we need to have a final one to do the final
minutes. >> It's kind of like the open space and wreck ad hoc committee where you basically have a meeting to >> to have a meeting >> and then and then we had a meeting some draft minutes of that. I pre-roisted and then we went out of existence. Yes. >> But I didn't want to do that. That was my favorite. Select board asked us to do
that. But >> the best meeting we've had in 18 months. >> I'll get a copy of what what was in the the packet last night. >> There's still work that needs to be done. It was just kind of a an initial presentation to >> Okay, >> Madam Chair. Yes. Capital budget. I I
attended capital budget meeting because Sandy Fe was unable to run the meeting on Monday. So, I did not go to um to the rack meeting, but um just some of the stuff we did review the draft warrant against our our numbers. Everything
balanced out. Police, fire, DPW, engineering, golf, and wastewater. balance to the penny which was encouraging and we do have a meeting next Monday with the library committee to discuss capital with them to make sure that that gets on the warrant because right now there is no number
assigned to it. Um so after that meeting we'll be able to close our portion of it. I have a presentation with the select board on Tuesday of next week from capital budget >> and then >> then you get it then sail away.
>> Then I get to sail away. >> So that's that is the plan. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Library committee update. >> Yes. >> I I believe that I know we're meeting tomorrow night. We were supposed to have the final budget final costs um the
first week of March. they may have them tomorrow night at tomorrow night's meeting. Uh which is is just a major piece of information that the citizens have to have. Um but given the fact we had the snowstorm and they may have been pushed back but they had committed to
the first week of March if not if not this week certainly next week and then after that the the commitment was they're going to go back to the board of selectman with and and the slip and asked for this a final final walk through >> for the I think it's on the agenda for the 20
>> is it saw at the end of the packet it said is it for the 10th or the 24th >> 24th. Yeah. So for the 24th. >> Yeah. So we So between now and then we'll definitely have to have the numbers and uh you know put the budget together and all that kind of stuff. >> And Susan, it's a sprint to April 28th >> after March 24th.
>> Well, I think the numbers are going to be they you know >> meant the the public I'm talking about the I'm just saying that's that's not a ton of time. >> Yeah. The question would be, you know, does the library guess I think the thinking was the libraries committee presentation in front of the board of selectmen will be of course open and
public and then anyone but we're assuming they know what the numbers are and they won't unless they follow the library committee very very closely. So there's been a lot of concern about outreach and getting the information out to the public but everyone's looking for these numbers. So I don't think it's going to be very difficult, you know,
getting them getting >> No, no. I just meant the opportunity in that one month after March 24th to have more public engagement. Exactly. >> On top of the already significant amount of public >> and one of those weeks is Easter week. >> Why not? >> So So you know, it gets Yeah, it gets very But I I don't
>> to school vacation week in there as well. But I think the library committee is committed to if if the if they were not pressured but they if they were encouraged to have some sort of public meeting they would do it or they would use coming back to us as an opportunity
for a public meeting. Now we didn't ask them to come back um and they would have to get space and all that kind of stuff. We meet routinely. They may ask to come back with the numbers to present them and use this as an opportunity to get the numbers out there. I don't know how they're going to do it but Will's right. They have to get they have to get the
numbers out there. >> Well, next Monday's meeting is a public meeting. So, >> the capital budget meeting is a public meeting. So, >> I mean, there's lots of opportunity and I think they're aware of the fact, in fact, I know they're aware of the fact that the the residents have to know um what the
what we're going to be responsible for >> and then crafting a kick butt presentation for town meeting like those slides and and having the architect, I assume, >> you know, do his thing. I'm not making because I'm not even going to be here. So, >> no. I'm just saying like but you know I mean I know you know this but it's worth
saying like >> the most polished library presentation in the history of library. >> If I had to choose anyone to do the presentation he would be but >> he is not a public you know he's not a committee member he's a contractor. It
would be I think it's always better to have a committee member someone representing the town make those presentations. >> Maybe it can be a tag team thing. >> Yeah it could be. But >> maybe this discussion is something the library board should end. >> Sorry, my apologies, Madam Chair. You're right. But but I would just trying to
find out where the zoning comes in here and I can't it was committee updates. I was but just committs up that the it would not it would not be surprising if they used a standing committee meeting to try to use that as a an opportunity
to get them and this would be one of them. They would be here before. They may not, but they may. I'm not advocating it. see >> uh >> where where are we now? Correspondents, I think Kathy >> or any board member updates, I think.
Sorry. >> Yes, madam chair. I had a question about the blue sky approval because I didn't have a chance to read every single piece of it. I know you attended the hearing. Did they lower it? >> Yes. >> So, and they also made it not a monopole.
>> It is a monopole as opposed to this the tripole. Correct. >> Right. Which we didn't like. >> They basically went back to what was approved by the Cape Cod Commission but lowered it from 110 down to 93 feet. >> And they were able to well it helped
because they I mean if the commission actually had them do balloon >> at 120 which I think is what they originally wanted and they did it at 90. And it's significantly diff it's much shorter amount of time when you're actually looking at it. And it also allowed the um pull to be pushed back
further into the property and retain some of the actual large existing trees >> back of the parking lot. >> Yeah. >> Or to the >> further to the north slightly northwest. >> That's what I meant. >> So that you have like a buffer of existing trees because they were cutting
everything down. Um so hopefully that will help a little bit. Um it was a it was a compromise for sure. And then, Madam Chair, I just want to do a quick followup on the timing of the lobster and the boat parking uh zoning changes are now are they
they're official, right? They've been voted. They've been signed. They went to the state. >> I have not heard. Like I said, they're not official. >> Well, that's why I was asking because I haven't been away. I haven't been here in a while. And >> yeah, they have till like later in the month. They the AG's office typically takes the 90 days, right? And then when
they get the 90 days, um, >> only because our friends who want to park their boats would probably like to get that. >> Yeah. And they're taking lists. >> I think it's March 30th. They have until to get it back from the state. >> I think I think Well, it's 30 days to submit, >> right?
>> So, it was November 17th to basically December 17th and then 90 days from that. And then it needs to be formally posted by the town clerk. So, that usually takes a little while for that to happen. >> So, that's around mid-March is 90 days. say end I would say the end of March, beginning of April. Okay. Should
>> I mean clearly the lobster situation is uh discreet in that form definition of the word but the boat parking one was the one that was on my mind because I don't know about anybody else but I almost I unzipped my jacket today as I was walking around. So it made me think about the spring and also the birds are
very are very loud. I don't know if anybody's noticed. So like and daylight savings time is Sunday. So it feels like boats were on my mind. Madam Chair, um, last one had to do with the ADUs. >> Yeah. >> Um, I wasn't here when Mark was here a couple of weeks ago. >> Um, maybe I'll just email him. Just I'm
always eternally curious about >> the numbers. >> Yeah. Just just >> notwithstanding what the state >> after all of our work is just are people taking advantage of the opportunity? >> A good question. >> I think there has been a bit of an uptick for sure, but not sign not
significant. >> We thought it was going to be a dozen, >> right? a year, something like that. And I just wonder if that is proven out. >> Well, I follow the zoning to see how many special permits and there have not been many. There's been some. >> It's not special permanent anymore. So,
>> but on that the ones that I there haven't been many. >> Okay. Thank you, Madam Chair. >> That was relevant. That was totally relevant, I hope. >> Yes, it was. >> Making sure. Um, on the subject of ADUs,
um, our plans to adjust our >> Yeah. >> zoning bylaws, >> um, it are out there. Okay. All right. We're still thinking about it >> because of the state. >> Yeah. >> We need to reconcile amend ours. We need to reconcile.
>> Happy fall town meeting. >> Yeah, it should be. Yeah, it should be. Again, it's not >> it's I'd like to be able to keep keep in as many things as that we want. like you can't ADUs can't be short-term rentals that we have every right to leave that in there and keep that in there. Um, but
there's a lot of stuff that we have to take out like owner, you know, owner occupancy and all of that stuff. We don't have any choice and no more two parking spaces. We have to take that out. So, it's a matter of going through it. Um, I think, you know, again, waiting until the regulations came out
was always helpful because I know some people made some changes before the regs came out. Um but that's just was the thing where we were just busy with the LCP and whatever. So it would be nice to get that wrapped up and get that figured out. So um was there anything else for special time meeting? I thought there
was something else we >> ask a state regulation question madam chair relevant to this discussion. >> Yes. >> Are there certain times a year like how often does the state get to change its regulations? >> I don't know. >> So I mean it's an ongoing thing. So they
could update those regulations again and again and again and all of a sudden they're going to make us have tiny houses that are ADUs. >> Well, that's not regulation. That's >> No, but I'm just saying like it's it's not that's not the end all and be all these change the last set of changes. >> Correct. >> Because despite all the feedback and
madam chair's >> there could be changes >> participation in that. >> Okay. There could, like I say, there could be an uproar about the movable tiny homes and they put back the word prohibit and let towns decide and that would make me feel much happier.
>> That's just a Beacon Hill decision on a random day and then X number of days after that it becomes official. >> I can't even pretend to know what happens up there. I don't >> Okay, I just meant but it affects us that that's why I was just curious. >> I I just don't know enough about the process to speak about it.
>> Okay. Uh any staff updates, Kathy, that you want to? >> The only staff update is Joanne and I are going to the Cape Cod Commission tomorrow at 3 o'clock into the Mary Pat Flynn conference room which is way up on the hill um to just give a very brief
presentation like less than 10 minutes uh on the LCP uh for certification. Uh and then I did the I did see the the draft approval. They usually send the staff sends it out. Very, very nice,
very complimentary. I kept going to met the rags, met the rags, met the regs. So, uh, we're in very, very good shape um for a nice victory run uh tomorrow afternoon to to get that certified. And this will be the Yarma's first certified LCP ever. >> Congratulations. >> Congratulations.
>> Did your homework when does the clock start again? >> I'm kidding. In about eight years, right? In seven years from now, right? when we have two years left. >> Yeah. I mean, it's a it's typically a 10-year plan. Yeah. >> And I was thinking about it a little bit
about when we would want to schedule our annual reviews because we need a lot of help and a lot of input from a lot of staff and maybe some committees and stuff. So, I didn't want to do some do anything while people are hot and heavy into annual town meeting or trying to do
something real quick for fall time meeting. So, it felt like May, June might be a good time just to kind of think about when we would want to be >> this May. >> No, not this May. >> I'm saying in general of kind of um when we would we could potentially get the
best information out of people uh on where they stand on things because sometimes that's hard. People get busy and it's just a request from Kathy. It's like another >> they got a fire over here that that's burning that they need to put out. Um, so if we can give them like a month to respond or something in a time when
they're not rushing to do something else, that would I think be best for us and then we can present to the select. So just something to think about and I started looking at that um spreadsheet and doing it in in um >> the action plan. >> Yeah. In Excel so we can watch each year
each 10 years we can have it all go out and see what we what we've done already. We've done a lot. >> Yeah. Already on the books. Yeah. really the the goals were kind of set last what August so yeah we're making progress
here >> uh upcoming meetings Kathy >> yes next meeting >> gone >> through a couple of them already >> next meeting is extreme well we have the March 10th we're going to select board for seasonal communities and the zoning
um and then March 18th we actually have a special permit public hearing for a a duplex use on a B2 property at Becker's liquor store. Yeah, I don't think you were here. You're looking at me quizzically. Um they want to do an expansion of the liquor store on the first floor and then have two um
apartments above. So, right Beckers, >> they're going to fix up the parking lot and all that. >> Yes. Yes. They're doing they're doing a really nice job. It looks good. Um they have enough land to allow for a duplex. They have double the lot size by combining their three lots. So, that's a special permit for that use from the
planning board. They're still going to have to go to the zoning board of appeals because they're going to need relief from their not some non-conformancies and that type of thing. Um and then we'll have the two VCOD site plan review projects. The one for 645 Route 28 the old Chinese restaurant. >> Thank you.
>> Um that >> the other one >> and then the 703 Route 28 the old gardener tile east of >> the condo. The condo >> the three duplexes east of Parker River. >> Um >> that'll be an actionpacked night. >> It is. It'll be good fun. All good.
They've all done good job. >> Yeah, it's great. >> On the 18th, Kath, >> the 18th. So, >> after St. Patrick's Day. >> Yeah. So, hopefully everyone can come. >> So, >> any Taco Bell news? >> Yeah, they just submitted um >> Please tell me they're delaying.
>> No, they just submitted their um ZBA permit. Uh I believe it's going to be April 9th. Is that a Thursday? C >> could you just play that out timelinewise? Does that still mean not gonna be ready for this summer? >> No. >> Right. They're gonna >> ready. >> You mean they're gonna They could be
potentially be building it this summer. >> They could >> because you know there's nobody trying to drive up and down Station Avenue in the summer. >> You wasteland. >> Well, I did recommend a peer review, a traffic peer review in my city plan review comments. So, I don't I I would
think that they're not going to it's not going to be I would be shocked if it was one meeting and done. I would think it would be an initial presentation asking for the peer review because we know what it's like. I mean, we heard from the Cape Cod Commission. They did a whole station avenue
>> coring. It's it'll be interesting. That's why I think it's always important especially with traffic because it's so subjective um what percentage you say if traffic's coming from this direction and that direction. It's it's almost, you know, an art in some ways. Um, and >> how many are turning left? How many are
turning right? >> Right. >> That's a huge issue coming out of this shopping center. >> And the pedestrian access is a concern from the DY students because there's no really good way to cross that that intersection to get to that side of the street. >> So, there's there's concerns, you know, and if you're looking at the special permit granting criteria, you know, it's
about con congestion. you're creating congestion or nuisance not just to a neighborhood but also to the town, you know, and as our main corridor, anything that's happening there kind of does impact the whole town, you know, >> when it gets to ZBA, they'll have all that in the packet, right? The traffic,
the the turn lanes, all that stuff will be in there. >> Yes. I mean, they have a traffic study that the that the applicant did that they will include, >> right? Regardless of whether we are in love with that study, it will show all the proposed in exits and turns. It does things like that. and the assumptions
that they made. >> Right. I'll put that aside. I just Okay, got it. >> I do see work going on next door at the Martins's liqu store. So, something's going on there again. So, >> working on it for forever. I hear it's beautiful inside and it's all tiled gorgeously, but I
>> see what's going on. >> We don't know what it is, right? >> Mystery. >> It's a deli of some sort. >> Open it up. >> Allegedly, >> Italian deli, maybe. >> Oh, nice. >> That's That's what I had heard originally. >> That would be great. May I have a motion to adjurnn?
>> Some moved. Second. >> Any discussion? All in favor? >> I. >> All right. Thank you all.