jim what oh because if you wore a Red Sox jersey anybody would say anything that's right no whatever i'm sure two votes will be nay recording four World Series last 20 years be quiet come on
good evening and welcome to the April 2nd 2025 Yarmouth Planning Board meeting i am John Crowley chair this is to formally advise that as required by Massachusetts General Laws chapter 3A paragraphs 18 to 25 and pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2021 and an
act relative to extending certain state of emergency accommodations signed into law on June 16 2021 the Armouth Planning Board will hold a public meeting on April 2nd 2025 at 5:30 p.m the public is welcome to attend in person this evening or via alternative public access
provided on the notice of meeting available on the town of Yarmouth website i'd like to begin by taking roll call susan Brida here deedra Gwen here will Rubenstein here jim Sabin yes peter Slovak here ken Smith here joanne
Crowley chair seeing that we have a a quorum present I'll now call the meeting to order join me in the pledge of allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands one nation under God
indivisible with liberty and justice for all thank you on our agenda tonight we have just a couple of items uh the first is the local comprehensive plan our town planner Kathy Williams will review with
us a staff meeting that she had with u the Cape Cod Commission uh provide an update on the community planning grant and uh review the draft LCP that we all received in our packets um so Kathy I'm
going to turn it over to you uh to give us an update on a couple of things and then we'll we'll go jump right back to the local comprehensive plan sure i just want to point out that Jeff Bag from BSC Group is also on kind of listening to get your guys feedback on on some of the
stuff with regard to the LCP welcome Jeff hi everybody thanks for having me virtually um Jeff and I met with Khloe and Martha from the Cape Cod Commission and kind of gave them an update of kind of where we were uh in the process um and then also
I think we got a generally a favorable review from them with regard to what we have been doing there were some areas that they kind of had mentioned as maybe taking note of the capital improvement plan that chapter can be a little bit tricky and different communities have done it different ways i think we're in very good good standing with our capital
improvement program which goes out 10 years uh that we should be able to um to write that plan to a satisfactory uh to the commission there's also a discussion on the targeted action plan um which was a little confusing to me and I think we might have to um get some more clarity once we provide them with the draft but
they wanted to talk about whether um there was a difference between the action plan and then the matrix the action plan I think is kind of the things that you have seen here but they did want to have those extra couple little couple extra little things beyond just like not just um continue with our
municipal wastewater program but what are some of the actual actions that you would need to take in order to continue with that which I think we have in here and then the actual matrix is something that once we get the action items down uh Jeff and his crew can kind of put together then we start identifying responsible parties we talk start
looking at the time frames with which we think we're going to get them done and then also the kind of the priorities of everything i think the vast majority of the things that are in here and as action items I would consider to be relatively high priority or they wouldn't necessarily be in here um so we also talked about um providing them with
the draft which we hope to have a first uh draft in in May and maybe even providing them with some smaller chunks uh maybe different sections um for them to review because it might take them a couple weeks two to three weeks for them to have it reviewed by all of their various um people in their department
but it really did seem like um so far I think we're on track for certification um with the um Cape Cod Commission um subsequent to hopefully an approval at the fall special town meeting on our local comprehensive plan so that was a relatively positive meeting um kind of
we're kind of on track gave us a few heads up on things we needed to pay a little extra attention to um which we're doing and and we're kind of moving forward um one of the other things on that um just a quick one in terms of a timing we're scheduled to meet with the board oh yes we May May 6 sixth so it
would be sometime after that we would submit to the commission correct yeah right now we we we are kind of like need to give periodic updates to the select board and right now thank you for Joan for bringing it up at the last meeting um the next time we'd be available be the May 6th meeting with the select
board i think that's just something that um you know Joanne and I would give a just an update of where of where we stand we've got a lot of great work done we got a lot of great information from our community meetings and kind of let BSC concentrate on um modifying the existing conditions and moving forward with developing that that draft um what
one other component um of the the community planning grant that we had I don't know whether anyone's familiar with that we received a $100,000 community planning grant um we are asked um BSC group and they have provided us with a scope to help us out with with one of the steps with regard to that um
has to basically do with mixeduse developments along Route 28 what can we do um to make them look uh exactly the way we want them as well as what can we do what are some of the pitfalls whether it's zoning or fun financing and then also kind of what can we do to incentivize that so they're going to be
doing some benchmarking of some successful mixeduse projects in the Commonwealth that we can take a look at uh and then they're also going to be doing a uh a good regulatory review of our um zoning bylaw to take a look at that um and then of course we'll have a a community meeting obviously presenting
information to you guys uh and then a summary of the report this all needs to be done by the end of the fiscal year so June 30th so that's going to be something that they're going to be working co concurrently with all the great work that they're um doing for us already on on the LCP we also have um an
RFQ request for uh quotes out there for the next step of this planning grant which is essentially to take all this great benchmarking and and zoning analysis that BSC's going group's going to do and then actually develop some renderings of different size projects what what would like a generic mixeduse
project might might look like on a small lot on a medium lot and a and on a large lot so that we can start letting people get a better idea of the what this might look like we did a lot of that in the VCOD when we were trying to get that pro approved but that's been over 10 years people forget so it's another way of
kind of bringing it to um to people's attention uh we're also going to see about organizing and facilitating a panel discussion with business leaders and different mixeduse developers bill Scott the assistant town administrator knows knows of several people um that could be part of this group really to
kind of find out how were you able to do these mixeduse projects successfully what were some of the the things that you needed to overcome and how can we help incentivize that type of thing i think we all know that we need have a housing problem we need to put housing somewhere people are a little resistant to put it in our residential neighborhoods we don't want to lose our
commercial corridor so mixed use is the magic answer so how do we promote that and get people um to be doing that so those are a couple things that are going on in addition to um the initial LCP work that that BSC group was working on kathy remind me the community planning
grant is a state or federal grant uh it's a state grant through um housing and livable communities okay and who is who is overseeing that grant you um yes we also have hired an interim um
economic development coordinator uh Jay Grandandy who works part-time and he's been helping us move some of these things forward so he's been helping kind of in the background and he's helping with the with the grant the administration there's a whole bunch of administrative things that are associated with the grant uh and hopefully he'll be continuing with that
but once once we get um obviously working with BSC group it would be me uh and then the other RFQ and we get quotes back from from they're mainly architectural firms that we sent it out to uh we would then I would then you know be working with them as well i'm I'm not sure if I'm having a brain freeze i don't think I am how is this
related maybe Peter to what CEDC was doing and trying to allocate some funding for just different it is different that's the market analysis and I think that's something where we need to come back uh before CEDC uh to talk about that a little bit they give some
funds I think um I think we might need a little bit more money because some more money was spent in one area I think the diff then was going to go that was going to go to the marketing study but that's really kind of to check our demographics check our area what are the different types of uses that would we need here and how can we kind of and if they're
what we want how do we try and market it and attract people to come here but again associated with the route 28 corridor if I recall yeah mainly the route 28 cor main our commercial quarters but has has there been a kind has there been a we haven't seen anything at this CDC hasn't seen anything out of that yet so we gave I
think $75,000 that's what I'm remembering it was 75 grand still 75 and part of it was used for some of the things Bill Scott needed to do and take care of and part of it still there I think the diff there was grant some grant writing that was involved and then there was the market study um so again I
apologize for so many questions on the community plan grant um uh we've had this we we applied for this last year yes okay and and it recently awarded
awarded and then we had an RFP process yeah i we're behind on the grant i think originally you know we were hoping that we would have an economic development coordinator position filled we have been trying for two years now since Kyle left to try and fill that position we just haven't found a really good candidate we
were lucky to find Jay um as a kind of an interim person to help us along but we're behind on that that's why there was a big push in in separating out some of the work to get BSC Group to do it um before the end of the fiscal year the RFQ also has some work being pushed very heavily for the end of the fiscal year
kathy the grant ends in June is that what you're saying but this sounds like it will it could be very it could play a a really important role here in the LCP the whole intent was to have these studies being happening concurrently including the
market study concurrently with what we were doing with the LCP so they could then be incorporated in we'll have to see where we are um with those and obviously the action items there is some action items um under the economy section related to these already so we'll just wherever we
are we'll have to then say the action item is to continue with this and identify what that is so we're not going to have all the answers like we're kind of hoping to have all the answers from these studies uh to incorporate and we're not going to quite be there that's all um do you want to move on sure
absolutely um please there's a lot of information in here and I think it it's indicative of all of the great information that has been collected through all the different community meetings the open house that we had the community uh meeting that we had in January all of the different interviews
that we have done and staff has done with a wide variety of committees and groups um basically to identify kind of moving forward with the action items a lot of the action items in here and it's you might think where's that action item when you thought it might be here well maybe it's over here
so that you really have to go through the whole thing and identify that all the different action items I tried to put them in the right spot maybe we need to move them around but I was um trying to put them in the most applicable um location all of the natural systems with the exception of the coastal resiliency that's essentially coming out of the
open space and recreation plan the only things that kind of got added was talking about the route six bass river bridge which I believe Joanne had mentioned u previously viously is something that we wanted to bring up and also um one of the interviews with the Hyannis Park Civic Association was that Hyannis PAS community working group and
what they're trying to do um with concerns with the PIFA uh from the uh fire trainings facility and then the airport so that's something that got added in there and then also maybe um taking another look at storm water regulations in general right now our storm water regulations just really
apply to one acre or more maybe we want to have something in our in our uh general zoning bylaw with regard to that um I wasn't planning on going line by line because I didn't want you all to glaze over uh while doing this um I
think Joanne and I I had discussed it a little bit today and she had kind of gone over some of the highlights of some of the things that she wanted was kind of hoping maybe to get the input from all the all the uh planning board members on your initial thoughts on these things you'll notice that there's some highlighted uh areas in here which
are not just necessarily questions for you but questions for town staff i did send this out to town staff uh a week and a half ago um hopefully because I want to make sure that these are action items that that a that's appropriate for them they're working on it this particular way or maybe they're also doing some additional things and they would want us to add that in as an
action item a lot of times you know thinking in action items are putting them in the LCP might ultimately help us with a future grant so you may see some things in here and we put a bunch of stuff that's in the kitchen sink and the open space and recck plan kind of because we wanted to make sure that we um could highlight that uh in a grant
application for example we got the park grant for the Riverwalk Park and we were able to say goal number blank in the open space and recck plan it was specifically referenced so So what what Kathy and I talked about um this afternoon so for tonight's
discussion since this is I I think truly a work in progress i mean this is the first kind of time we've seen what the what it's going to look like i mean I think we all agreed the last time um on the kind of the format of this we did
make some suggestions um as to moving some things around and I think this draft incorporates that uh but I I think the most efficient way to do this because if we go through it line by line we'll be here till tomorrow and it I
don't know know that would necessarily serve a really good purpose so what I what I what I thought and and Kathy and I thought might be a good idea is each of us go through some major comments about where where you are with it now or
specific if there are things that have been left out or general organization of how it looks um uh Kathy is intends to send out um a word document where we can actually physically make the changes if
we so want which I think would be very helpful and we get that back to Kathy and then she'll have all of our comments in in in a in a format that she can bundle together and um and sort through so what I thought I'd do is I I I would
start and just give you an example of how I looked at this um I Um as some of you may know I have a a a tendency to want to diagram every sentence uh and I tried not to do that it's the pro being
a product of Catholic schools um so my my one over over kind of overarching um uh suggestion is that the key issues in each one need to be in the same format
they need to be either a statement or um a an objective um uh uh description of the issue and not tr trend into being a solution or trend into being an action item i mean
I'll use it as an example to me as the first one and under under natural systems maintaining and improving drinking water quality well that feels like an action that's not a definition of the issue m so in each one of them I mean I got stuck on page one and then I
said stop you have to read the whole thing uh and so I did so I think that's where I am on that I'd be curious if everybody feels kind of Ken Mr madam Chair and Kathy just that's actually very much how I feel about it
and I mean I think there's a lot of information here that truly haven't completely digested but the question I guess that I had this being kind of the first I guess real draft of the information all being put together I was looking at more from the back end
because I think the statements of the issues are really very accurate of what we're seeing as issues here in Yarmouth but are the action items supposed to be kind of this is the direction that we want to see the town go and if they are
some of like unbelievably broad that I said it's so broad that it's very candid almost pointless you know I just like I circled a few as I was going through it today at work and then right now you know continuing to support the work of the community housing committee and affordable housing trust to reach the
10% goal that's just one item and I mean that's down on an action item as far as key goals on housing um and that's a great statement we all want to see that happen but how do we get there and that's where I I was kind of going from
the action standpoint and maybe I'm going about it all wrong i guess that's why I'm looking for some clarity here are the action items supposed to be the solution how we get to some of these problems y because you know like the one for example this one earlier about
traffic and congestion congestion and speed of roadways but that's all it says so that's a great goal to have to reduce congestion on Route 28 or on any road in Yarmouth but how do you get there because every road is a different problem so I I guess I just was looking
is what are the actions supposed to be and maybe we can turn to Jeff to help us with that right now um of what that because to me I look at the action that's telling me okay this is the action to solve or get to a repair to
some of these issues it may be on that if I may cat but I'm going to let you answer but on I think um these an LCP is meant to be broad it's it's not meant to be you know um an
identifying every element of an action plan that would contribute to the accomplishment of the goals or addressing the issues um and and some of them are too broad i I would agree with
you um but others um could be the language could be revised to say something like identify those roadways where there are speeding issues um rather than just a general brut but that's where the refinement comes in and
those kind of comments are exactly what we want because where I'm going it and I and I madam chair I don't disagree with you but when you use the term LCP local consent of plan correct to me it's an LCS when it makes a broad statement it's not really to me it's a plan to nothing
you know so I have a question madam chair after Susan Susan will go first but I want I just like about this issue I okay but I just want Kathy to give us a a bit you know the LCP does have its own definitions so to speak but go ahead
but it has components as well sorry that are way more specific for instance and this is why I wanted to jump in I apologize for instance the open space and w plan is literally these are the things that we need to do whereas and that lives there but it doesn't and Ken you're not wrong about saying that you
know the majority of people are probably not going to may choose not to dive into each of the specific plans for instance the housing production plan which I imagine is way more specific than the housing goals that we saw here osrp same thing so part of the challenge is is how
do you get people you know to go deeper but then not overwhelm them at the top level when you're pointing out that this is the components of this LCP are actually not just this top level it's all the foundation underneath in terms of the actual action but that doesn't
necessarily mean that we're going to get people there unless we actually literally drive them there once they come to the top of the pyramid if they want to get deeper does that make any sense i'm sorry to interrupt but I thought it was relevant i think some of the things I kind of wanted to get give
credit for all of the committees that we have because they're very laborious for staff to do and a lot of the like other um LCPs might say you know put together affordable housing trust you know we already have one we already have a
community housing committee we already have an energy committee that's doing a lot of great work we already have a great recycling and solid waste committee a lot of other plans might just say form those types of groups but we have them so I kind of was thinking maybe we needed to give them a little bit of a shout out that maybe it's not continuous support maybe it's something
worded a little bit differently um but but that's why things like that are in there but I'm more inclined to um be more specific like with the fourth one there complete the study being conducted by the University of Massachusetts Ammerst Dahu so I'm fine taking some of
these things out i know that um Jeff was saying that maybe we don't need to say that we need to update the open space and rec plan every seven years or the housing production plan every five years maybe those aren't things that we need we need to incorporate in here so there's certainly things to that can be narrowed down but I guess I think
there's a lot of actual specificity with it with regard to this so if we want and and actually more specificity in some of the than some of the other plans that I've actually looked at and so you know we may we may want to take some stuff out yeah that's Kathy that that's where
I was going i I less is more to me i think if we had the you know some of the stuff in here I believe it could come out and I think it's a great idea if you send it around in a word form rather than us trying to dissect it here at the table is let us take a stab at it and
send it back maybe we're wrong i mean I what I don't want to be misunderstood there is some tremendous work in here and there's been some tremendous work by the people that have come to this room to give us this information but I've always believed less is more and I think that if we just narrow this down to the
stuff that we need in there that's where it should go agreed and I agree with um what Joanne said with regard to the key issues we're just trying to get them down and I wasn't sure exactly how to phrase them but we do want them to be clearly identifying the issues and not starting to move into the answers so I
think there's there's certainly phraseology and word smithing that definitely needs to happen and elimination this is this is a little bit like the existing conditions plan where it has a lot of everything in it and quite frankly I do agree that things could come up yeah that's good that's
good um that's generally my my comments i had some specific ones with Kathy i'll use as an example uh what she mentioned before um I'm looking at the action items and I'm saying "Hey where is um
where is the dredging of Dennis?" you know that Dennis is going to do a Kelly Bay and then sure enough you get to page 14 and there it is it's just in a different category i was looking and Kathy and when when she and I spoke were
she had to kind of put them in one place or another rather than repeat them um and uh I I had questions on culverts um uh what else oh I did have I did have um
some some some some questions with overlap Kathy there seem to be some some areas where there isn't an overlap um I I can give you the specifics when
you send it out uh but I just saw that that there were action items that kind of appeared in that seemed to be the same that appeared in two different places okay i noted I had a little difficulty with regard to the fire station feasibility study because it seems like it was somewhat related to coastal resiliency but it was also
somewhat related to town services so but definitely anything you see like that let me know or again if things are missing you know a study or something that you know that's going on that you think it would be a great action item to continue with then let us know that is Madam Chair yes could I have a
discussion with regards to built systems action item number one can you tell us what page please Jim that would be page eight of 21 thank you so one says "Revise the architectural and site design standards and consider making
them mandatory for new development raise and replace and for substantial redevelopment i guess my issue with that is later on we talk about promoting development and when we're putting mandatory things
on it makes it more restrictive and harder to promote economic redevelopment if we're saying hey you know we want you to build in our town but um you got to go through this committee too you know we've added a new one now so you're going to go through this site design
review so the this is design review committee the revised architectural and site design design review committee um does the review for the architectural site design standards right now they're very confusing and I would like to simplify them but make it clear that
when you are raising and replacing an entire property and you can then decide where you're going to put your parking that you do it in a nice way using the word simplify as opposed to revise might then connect to the idea of of the economic redevelopment as opposed to
just saying revise right Jim what if it's No I'm looking at my You want the mandatory i'm looking at the word making them mandatory okay i was also focusing on the front end thing simplify ma mandatory right now um a lot of times when people go to um design review
committee if it's a commercial development south of Route Six it's advisory you can you can follow it or you don't have to follow it most people if they have to get some type of special permit through the zoning board of appeals are very accommodating and there's also some developers who are like "Oh yeah that's a great idea i see what you're talking
about let's let's go ahead and move forward and do that." Um but if it's advisory then you have no design standards a lot of other communities have whole site plan review special permits through the through the planning board haritch has has them um I don't
think that's anything that we want to be doing um I think that there are some very simple basic good design standards that are not rocket science that everyone should be should be adhering to um a as the planning board's
representative to design review um I don't disagree i think it's it's important that we try to create a um sense of similarity if you will and cohesiveness amongst the architectural
design and standards i think you all know I travel quite a bit and sometimes I go to places and try to figure out what the heck they were doing and then there are areas that it just makes sense where all the buildings are kind of Houston Texas is a perfect example no there's no zoning and it and it's a mess
um and I'm not suggesting that we eliminate it but I'm just trying to wrap my head around how we consider doing that without making it mandatory and maybe it's mandatory to go there but not mandatory to listen to them is right now
what's going on i mean we have our meetings and and we we have one gentleman who's been in front of us three times four and you know changing it doesn't cost them anything to go it costs the members of the board and
Kathy's time but it doesn't cost an individual a fee to go in front of design review um the architectural site design standards are mandatory for the road to the maximum extent possible for
um hotel motel overlay district and for the VCOD right so there are places where it is mandatory it's just you know sometimes people are literally raising and replacing and it's advisory and so maybe it's just if you're raising and replacing or you have
a whole new development don't we want Route 28 to look a certain way yes that's the whole point of So that's what this is this is trying to get at or Station A for that matter yeah and and you know the other thing is is maybe what what things look like on
White's path we is much simpler than what we want things to look like on on Route 28 so the right now the standards apply to every business district and it may not but again the not so Joe Small can come
in and because he's mandatorily required to come to design review doesn't have to put that third window on the second floor if you're if you're making its compliance to the standards and if you have simple reasonable standards maybe they put in that window
maybe they you have to have a front door entrance to Route 28 those are all basic design standards that make Yarmouth look better yes if you don't have those and it's all just you know if you feel like it you know 28 the way it looks today
I'm concerned i mean we keep saying what's our vision for Route 28 now that sewing is coming i think this is going to help us get there and I think the mixed use study will help us get to what what are these things that we would want to be looking at as well i don't want to do anything that's going to um impede
people coming to the town of ownorous i mean even even they're really not ownorous standards their basic development standards no one should object to that right they're not Nobody wants a big giant rectangular box you know so we want it to look a certain way that doesn't mean it has to be
goldplated but there are very simple ways of doing it i think Yarmouth Commons looks very nice that actually looks super nice and a lot of that is ex is details that they put in with the trim work right um but that wasn't required by the zoning but the
modulations in the building the roof line and that type of thing that was required because it was a um H mod project so think about it do the I mean I think we the the language there though is
consider making them we we can't we we we can't make a mandatory would there'd have to be a whole process of go through the zoning bylaw to um so leaving it somewhat open or maybe if it's softer language you want but we want a review
applicable yeah we we don't we Jim oh I agree I just I just when I read it I was like comes across that you know as somebody who's a coming to town reading that would really you get me to have to do this too so maybe it's the word
mandatory or maybe we can say that we should promote um use of architectural design i'm not sure yet let me think about the wording but maybe just the word mandatory comes down as like you know I mean we all heard it a million times that the town
is not businessfriendly i think I've heard that since I was 10 um so when I see words like mandatory it's maybe just consider making them applicable to Yeah well we can all think to a lot of things right now they're just not applicable to everything yeah so anyway that's just my
two cents on the issue good one any anyone anyone else i I've finished up with my general comments and Kathy and I did chat before um if I can just add Madam Chair that I think the growth policy changes work perfect i I
think I don't see any need to change page one if anybody I mean read quite well to me i thought it was good i did have a question on that kathy Long Pond intersection which one which one is that
oh with Route 28 and and 28 yeah these are all Yeah and I had a question if um it includes this area here because I think that's pretty much a major
area is is this part of the area near the Bass River in the Longpoint Pond intersection or what i don't know how you define I I kind of think it's in between yeah yeah so I mean do you want to say the entire entire I mean I mean
Route 28 from the Bass River Bridge to the Hyannis border but this seems simplify it keep it simple right no but it does say the route 28 cor and then this just highlights certain such as from the community meeting we were asking pointed
questions in the land use section of where do you want to see things going and these were kind of I think the highlight but I think the overall sentiment was as Jim said all of 28 from Bass River Bridge down to the East Main Street anything else Jim no I'm good i'll shut
up now for the minute who's next i Is this is the document supposed to quantify any of these points you know because I always find you know we can go back to the last LCP and we when we look
at this 10 years from now how are we going to know if we were successful you know and I don't know if this is you know you know you read the key issues more housing types more commercial simplify you know limit better need to preserve i mean if it doesn't is it
supposed to you know in the housing section you know to attain the 10% goal we're at like 3% right 4% 5% it's taking a long time to get to 5% i mean should we I mean you just we're going to be chasing 10% for maybe forever right that
ADUs are that way yep right but I I just don't know if there's any way to quantify any of this so that we can look back for measures of success measures of success um there there is a section in the LCP um the template that says say you can
add those type of things how would you benchmark whether you're successful or not um I don't want it to get into the case of uh it being too the specificity being really rigid you know you you've
developed 32 you know that type of quantitative but I think there might be some ways of of identifying whether we've been successful i don't know if Jeff has Jeff Bag has anything um that he might want to offer on that but they do allow for us to have ways of
measuring the success madam Chair yes you know I see exactly where where um Peter's coming from you know one of the problems that when we do these we don't assign
responsibility action item ABC who's responsible for doing that so what happens what's going to happen with this i sad to say is what happens with other LCPs it got put on a shelf and nobody went back and looked at it and said you know we were trying to achieve this who
was supposed to do that who's going to do that so until we can assign and we can't but until maybe a board of selectmen and town administrators take the end product and go through it and say well if this is an action item who's responsible for
the action item and how are we going to get it done then we've written this entire thing and stuck it on a shelf because nobody's going to do anything unless people are held accountable for the action items that's in the matrix where you would assign responsibility the benefit that will be there staff's already working on a lot of this oh
absolutely so there's already people working on it and and have been assigned to them and it's on their list of things to do so I don't I don't think that that's an issue i think it's a question of it's just we don't see it yet it's not this that's the next step in terms
of where this draft is going you got to agree on kind of the baseline here and then the assignments I think Kathy if I'm right will flow from that it may be a committee assignment it may be a departmental assignment it's really the board the the leadership of the town the board of selectment is going to be
responsible for implementing this plan that's right so so um you're right we all know where certain places are going to land but their direction and their attention to it on a on a routine basis will will give us the success benchmarks
that Jim's looking for i think they're going to turn it back to us they'll turn it back to the town they're going to turn it back to us they'll turn the implementation back to us but the ultimate success of the plan they are responsible they are the leaders of the town they don't and and and also the community if they don't fund some of
these things you know it's in thereact but that's the documentation we tried this we went to town meeting it was voted down we tried this other thing it got voted down or oh wait a minute we tried this and we were successful those are all the documentations of what's happening with the LCP i view this as being something that we would look at
annually uh to try and get an idea of what progress has been made on these different items annually so that we would know and there should be one board of selecting meeting dedicated to that set their goals they set their goals each year so maybe meeting A is review
of the comprehensive plan it's successful and then maybe their next meeting then they then they could but I'm not trying to tell the board to elect me how to run their meetings but yeah how how often do they go back to the vision statement that you know this committee worked on before I came on but for a long time so how often do they go
back to that and I don't go to every select board meeting well it must come you know I I don't know that it gets referenced very often i mean I think it got referenced in the library um study the library study they went through it you know piece by piece really in a very
thorough way and when I'm involved with CPA and any of those projects that we evaluate um I make sure that that the questions are asked which of the which of the um pieces of the vision plan is
this addressing um and in in fact I made some recommendation that um in there should always be that linkage when you submit the application read the vision plan and tell us which piece of it you think this
project addresses accountability Jim um and same for some of the projects for CEDC um that are awarded um or or any other kind of the capital plan uh could be the same but I mean I I do try to do
that at my committee meetings and um I would encourage everyone as they continue in theirs to do the same um it's always in my folder um but getting back to your question about metrics and because I I think quants are good too um
the some of the pieces that are in here that will be part of this or references like the housing production plan I think is very quantitative um I don't know I you know I can't recall if open space and wreck it it is and it isn't I would say it's very
tactical it's like this is this is the issue and this is what you need to do to start making that issue better or solving that problem whether it's fields or wetlands or open space but it doesn't necessarily it's not as quantitative but
it's very very actionoriented and literally tied you can literally follow the through line from issue to action and then some of the actions are even broken well many of them are broken into sub actions as well yeah a different so not quantitative but definitely
actionoriented yes maybe there are some areas I mean and two good examples you know if you see some things that you think maybe we can wrap a metric on um let's do it um and see what we can what we can find
um any anyone else I had two small things but Susan was that was did you want to I was just going to say it's sort of a reiteration what what um said earlier about a stronger crosswalk between the issue and the action um just and most of it I think
would fall on a verb as Peter said you know measure this do this whatever inquire measure more more insist whatever the a but just maybe a stronger crosswalk and every action doesn't necessarily have to crosswalk with a key issue but it would be great if it did um
and that way it it's easier for the citizens to track I think you know this is what the key issue was and here's the action item associated with that and I'm not trying to toot the horn of the o open space and recommen but because you were chair no it's not no it's literally has nothing to do with that I'm I'm
serious but what I liked about it because again I think all of you are seeing that the amount of work that goes into whatever the plan is or whatever the committee's uh work is is that you worry that it is a little that it's too squishy and there and forgetting about
if there's anybody who's going to actually hold this plan accountable the question is well what is it that they're actually holding in their hands is it is it going to turn into mush and the OSRP is literally the opposite of that and I'm sure in comparison the housing production plan is also as good but
what's I guess it's sort of like the end of the pen ends of the pendulum it's like the OSRP is like very much okay are you concerned about the parks okay well read page four because there's five different issues and three different ways that we're going to hopefully work on it that isn't necessarily true in
every subpiece of the LCP but maybe we can aspire to be more like the OSRP when we can with without as as uh Ken was saying without overwhelming people and making them run away i don't know it's it's a balance it's a dance i
also think that you may find that there's a lot of people are just going to read the action plan right so you have to have enough detail in these things so people know what you're talking about right um but also you know not so much that it goes on for 50 pages
um so it's a fine line for sure madam Chair Miss Bren are you finished yes I am okay i just wanted to bring up one um on page 12 action number two for the life of me even though it was only six months ago I cannot remember what we
decided at special town meeting about the general bylaw on single plastic use containers i cannot remember what action the town took it got extended the implement i think they were going to uh extend it to next that's right it's been extended it got kicked fall to the fall
uh I believe it's been extended to January 1 2026 I believe okay so that's what I just needed thank you for the reminder because I that's when I read this i just wanted to sort of like square it with well what did we actually just talk about as a town we kicked it
down the road okay that's what I That's not fair it was it was a petitioned article so what happens when you get a petitioned article true Kathy yes you did get kick it and it was petitioned for good reason you kick something down the street for good reason at the same time they're true simultaneously yes
trust it it helps our businesses um so when a petitioned article goes through it doesn't get vetted by town staff it doesn't get the research it doesn't do all the stuff that we do when we do a zoning so as good intentioned as it was and it passed a town meeting it really wasn't implementable the way it was
written so we said instead of implementing it here where we're being told by our businesses that you're we're going to have all kinds of troubles implementing this because it's too rigid it's all plastics we got nothing to work with anymore and now we're going to amend that and come back and amend it at town meetings so that it can be properly
implemented in January understood but a huge part of that discussion though had to do with the speed at which our department of health was moving in order to actually get the to get the bylaw which I felt was a little unfair because as a petitioned article there's no town staff that's been assigned to it i see
it just it just Okay here's a petition i see okay i'm already working on 50 things and then all of a sudden so poor Jay tried to jump in and help and he kind of got Yeah that's where Yeah that it wasn't wasn't so pretty yeah some of the move forward and and be the
person and then it turned out to be an kind of an unfair attack on him well there was a couple problems with the with it number one there was many pieces of it that they just you know I I run a restaurant i run a community that has a restaurant in it that we have to go
items that are plastic and there are a lot of really good stuff that's not plastic and biodegradable and there's some stuff that right now there isn't a good alternative that is what the petitioned article stated that they want
a biodegradable product and so that was part of it and then the second part of it is you write this article and who's going to be the enforcement arm of it to really you know it's great to have an article that says you can't use plastic and all that stuff but who's going to
enforce it um and I know the board of health and all that but do they have the manpower to go out and say I'm using the wrong to-go containers for my residents you know so that's really what it was is to try and make it it was not kicked down the road it was
advised to push it down a little bit to give us a chance to get everything up to speed and actually work with our vendors and trying okay what are the alternatives right thank you Madam Chair i just wanted to ask that because I couldn't remember how that got decided and then I had one more thing Jim uh
Madam Chair I'd just like to make a public service announcement to those people who are considering petitioning the town of Yarmouth for anything that they come to town hall and speak with the town's staff and work with them so that when it gets to the planning board or something that that article is
perfectly crafted in a way that we have none of these discussions in the future and has staff backup as Kathy was saying well what you know a perfect example of it is was the ADU one where you know the petitioners article didn't jive with our our bylaws and etc but I mean it happens
often so I'm you know to those of you in the public who are considering a petition article come to town hall and work with town staff so that we get it right the first time that's all we we just have to be careful because if 50,000 people could come to town staff and want us to write their petitioned articles for them and we're not going to
do that right we have 20,000 people in town i don't think Jim was advocating for that no but there's five people who probably based on that will probably come 50 times yeah they act like 50 five people are watching just something to think about but a lot of times when people bring an issue to us then the
planning board has regularly said you know what we agree with you we're going to take it on we're going to work with the community and we're going to come with something so that's kind of the way I think to do it not to do it through any petitioned articles but see if you can't work within the system to get all these committees and boards on board and
help let them help you if it's a good if it's a good amendment move it forward well our founding fathers intended in in the first amendment to the Constitution to have the petition be a a vessel for filing grievance with your community or
your government so step one is to find out if you have a grievance you know if we're willing to work with you then you probably don't um you know and that's the whole idea of the the petition is that to file grievance with your your government for something you think they should be doing madam Chair
thank you i have one last thing i promise yes please Mr rubenstein page three number eight i just would like to point out that I want to point out my ignorance about the the depth of the PAS issue in our town and it wasn't until I watched I think it was the March 18th
select board meeting which was two select board meetings ago that I was pretty blown away because I hadn't I knew that it was bad and I knew that it was a concern but when you I encourage anyone who doesn't really understand the issue or wants to learn more about it to
watch that 45 minutes or so and the presentations by the um by the PAS community working group and the back and forth with our select board um and to that end I I just I just feel like I know it's a nitpick but instead of continue working with I think it should
say support i think it should be because our select board was pretty fired up as they should be and it just felt like that needed a little more oomph again notwithstanding whoever may read this and how they may interpret it but it feels like that's consistent with what the select board has already said and I would imagine none of us would have an
objection thank you and then they want to put the fire training facilities in Yammer well I'm not Jim you're connecting all kinds of dots that I am just focusing on number eight where instead of continue working with I would strike that and just use the word support can't we say continue working with and support i was just trying to
again good support is important i think the word and it does say support later i just wanted to flip it and just start with a hey we're behind you and as opposed to continue working with is kind of mushy and again I know madam chair we'll do this we'll fix it in post as they say we'll do it when the word document comes around but again I would
encourage anybody who's heard this p heard about PFAS and doesn't know what it is to watch that 45 minutes of the March 18th 2025 planning board meeting wow Susan just wow big deal oh yeah much bigger appreciation for what is going on and also for our friends in Barnstable
you know it's certainly a big big important issue as well there hyiana's Park had always taken that on as an issue because they're big airport issues very big airport and we sort of were interested but not really interested but then once you get a presentation you become very interested it's extremely
important and that gentleman who's been tracking this for 25 years who I apologize I've forgotten his name who's you know certainly on the side of wanting to get this right and then of course no surprise the amount of let's just say uh inertia from our friends at the state of Massachusetts which I can
tell you from the water resources advisory committee is Not we're not alone in that fact it's pretty stunning it is when we were um engaged with fighting the windmills in Lewis Bay that PAS came out that's the first time I ever heard about it because one of the stations I think that the windmill
people wanted to put was up up something up in there and Hyenas Park said "Oh my god you know you've got the PAS up there what's up?" And then when you learn about it it's very dangerous yeah it's a it's a Well thank you Madam Chair i just wanted to advocate for that one small
thing and I promise all my other stuff as you mentioned earlier we will fix it in post and we'll use the suggestion tool on Google on uh on Microsoft Word what was the date of this march 18th 2025 so it was two it was two weeks ago two weeks ago it was really powerful
watching very very when you understand the depth of it my my daughter worked for the CEDC and when you understand the depths of PAS and what it can do to people Yeah and the issues here in Cape Cod she actually worked right here in Barnes County and it's pretty
frightening it really is you watch it makes you want to bring back the use of plastic water bottles and you know but it also connects to but it does connect to the airport issue which is also a town of Yarmouth issue and all the things that Christine was talking about at that meeting so it is not as simple as and of course as Jim just brought up
the fire to foot training academy like there's a bunch of stuff tied up in this issue and it's quite it's quite quite interesting thank you madam chair and madam chair just one last thing just to confirm Kathy I did I texted a friend that had better information than I did
it is 126 that the pla the petition plastic article was pushed off to thank you so Madam Chair I understand our instructions our homework is to take this home beat it up and send everything back to Kathy with a due date of No I
think she's sending us an electronic word document if you could track changes right that would be back to put your name at the top so that I know who who obviously I'll know but that's by multiple names
and a timet Kathy that you would like this by what's reasonable guys nothing next week i'll be here next meeting well hold on this is negotiation 101 we never make the first offer so we will wait and hear what you and Jeff have to say um I'm kidding Kathy
whatever you Whatever you'd like two weeks is Yeah next meeting next meeting but if you get it to the next meeting I don't know i'm not going to have a chance to coales to the chair you may say something that directly you know I don't know what you want to do i'm not
going to be able to um make any coalescing any of the comments or make any changes if it's in two weeks sooner is better but two weeks would be max what's your deadline and what's your schedule right how about Jeff we haven't heard from Jeff maybe Jeff should tell
us he's passed out yeah Jeff raised his hand hey will Jeff Jeff rais clerk jeff has got his hand raised why can't first the nice if the nice gentleman in the back could click the okay button we can actually see Jeff's face if you wouldn't mind for the nice gentleman in the back
of the in the operation center Liam if you I am here I didn't pass out or anything I've been listening he's awake Susan um Kathy I defer to Kathy I think just on the timeline I think if if you could
get comments back to Kathy sooner rather than later I think that works the best like within two weeks weeks um Kathy's been doing a tremendous job kind of helping set the stage for us to come back to you guys um we had we we are hoping to come back to you in May so
whether it's the first meeting in May or the second meeting in May with that sort of sort of second pass at the existing conditions and what Kathy put together in your discussion tonight is is super helpful for how we craft that um so so I
would push for sooner rather than later because I think this is not the last time you you'll see it i think we're hoping to take all the input and then put it back in front of you again in May so you know I think they'll it's it's that iterative process madam Chair can I ask Jeff a quick question about that you
mentioned the matrix and we won't talk about red pill or blue pill and that's you know that might have gone over some people's heads but I don't care um when does the matrix of it all start to come in because again some of these I think we're all worried we're concerned about some of the process but the process all
of it hasn't been revealed yet again with the pills but you understand why I'm asking can you can you update us on that please Jeff yeah I mean generally speaking I think the matrix will come a little bit closer to the end um just because it is it is the place where
every potential action gets gets put into a a section um you know our general timeline right now was and we spoke with Kathy about this is to try to get the existing conditions section back to you in preferably in early May and then we
owe we owe you all sort of some draft chapters um the housing the housing chapter and the capital um the capital facilities chapter and we had targeted trying to get that to you by the end of May so that you have sort of the a more
complete draft the whole draft um and then embedded with that is the targeted action plan and I think I think the targeted action plan really is actually going to be important to set the stage for the matrix so it's kind of a
existing conditions right um the targeted action plan and then the matrix so yes the movie was right Madam Chair is basically what he's saying okay I got it one of the other things that you'll see in here is I also took a shot at the goal
so each one has a goal now I tried to take a look at you know what what was in the original vision plan and see if we could make that goal i also looked at the uh Cape Cod Commission's RPP goals they're very generic um but I tried to
to do that so when you're looking through it um also take a look at the goal as well as the action items and then again uh if you have any other key issues that you think need to be identified again I totally agree we need to do some word smithing on them to make sure that they're in the right format
um but yeah when you're when you're looking at it look at that as well yeah and if I could add to that too because I I think I waited too long to talk because I have a little quick list of things to just offer um the document that Kathy gave you guys is is really great and it's a perfect outline just I
think as a reminder the the format that we're going to be working working into is similar to um sandwich and so you know the the document will have an executive summary and then it'll kind of be this the the middle the most robust
section is this existing conditions and we gave you like too much the first time but the second the second pass is going to be some really key statistics under each of these topics and then it's going to be the key issues which that document that you have in front of you is starting to identify the
key issues and then it'll kind of cap off with um recent actions by the town andor kind of like references to the to the most important plans that that talk about everything in more detail um we'll have a housing chapter
capital facilities and then there's this kind of shift in the in the do in the document template there's a shift to the targeted action plan and what we're starting to look at is what Kathy has there for the goal and the actions um
all they all kind of end up in that targeted action plan section and I did we did start to kind of lay it out in terms of like how it might appear in a format and we think that the way it's structured right now is the goal it
would be this overarching goal for the for the general topic say natural systems or open space and then it'll have those action items will be um encapsulated in that targeted action plan and so I I did take a shot at kind
of graphically comparing where where we want to go with the Yarmouths and comparing it to to a couple other LCPs that we know got certified by the commission and so I think we're on the right path um to do this so it'll be kind of much
easier to read for for people who who get this document and want to thumb through it so I think that'll start to really come back to you guys in May so you can start to help see the detailed the content and then how it might lay out um if I could just say I think two
more things was um as you're going through it over the next week or two I think things that are missing is going to be super helpful i think this is the this is the one of the most important times that if we can capture things that you think are missing and make sure they're in there that would help us um I
think word smithing and making sure everything is in the proper verb tense and and things like that and making sure they're objective statements i think we're we're going to get through that pretty soon and that'll be an action item we can take your input and then make sure that we're we're doing that
[Music] um the only other thing I had on my notes was about performance measures i think Peter asked it i think it's a great question and I think that's going to take a little more thought yeah and I think Kathy said something really pertinent which is there's going to be a
fine line where we don't we can't we can't within the scope of the project and we probably don't want to be too specific in terms of the town should allow you know 26 ADUs like I think some of those types of things are going to be
difficult to measure but I think we we have to sharpen our pencils on how we're going to handle that with you guys too so that'll be something forthcoming um and then I think really the last thing it was something about um the select board that was the discussion
with the select board and and we did look at their goals for FY24 I think it was and FY25 and they seem to be really in line with the majority of these highlevel items that are are being identified in
the LCP so I think that there should you should be applauding yourself as a community that the select board goal goals are really in line with the the key themes that we're seeing um and I think the the the effort that we'll go through over the next couple months you know we're we're looking to kind of get
a complete draft wrapped up and done by the end of June no actually sorry I think it was August on the timeline so we have the summer to refine all this with you with you all but I think um one of the things that we heard from the Cape Cod Commission which I don't think
we've rectified yet is making some of the actions targeted which I think implied some level of prioritization um and I think I think that's what they were trying to talk to us about is the targeted action plan is not the list of every single action it's
kind of these targeted actions that will allow a bunch of other activities to to fall under them so Kathy and I haven't spoke at length about that but I think like the PAS issue is one of those really important targeted action plan items that's that's super critical and I
think as Will said it it touches all these other components and I think you're you know the wastewater um project over the the next 30 years is one of those that leads the way for a lot of these other projects to to fall under them and so we have to work
together as to how to kind of illustrate that for people so sorry that I waited too long to talk so I just threw a bunch of stuff out there but those were my quick comments thank you Jeff can I just ask a quick question certainly um one of the things is is when we have a draft then we we
need more public input on the draft so I guess I wanted to talk to Jeff a little bit we haven't we haven't talked about it but we had talked maybe briefly about a survey or is this a case where we're going to be doing it through uh just a general here's the draft it's open for you know a 45day public comment provide
comments to me i mean how are we going to be getting the public input on the action items i have a suggestion Madam Chair yes well all of us have all of us have subcommittee assignments various of various you know ways and means some of them meet more than others
but at least we could take it upon ourselves to to advocate you know for that kind of input in our own sub other assignments i know that's a supplemental thing that's not a primary right i think the way it was kind of way I have been thinking about it was that I was hoping
to get comments from town staff before I presented it to you and then get your input back and then present it to and then send it out to the committees because the committees did a great job they really helped us out a lot staff really helped us out a lot people did answer a lot of questions for us which I appreciate just to make sure that
there's nothing like fully sideways on what they they want to do um and then so that that gets incorporated into the draft that then gets presented to the public i just I made that suggestion in addition to a survey which you know is not a bad thing and certainly people do enjoy and we've
had we've had some nice public engagement throughout this process in person on Zoom and otherwise but I just also thought I didn't Thank you for explaining Kathy i understand the issue better now than me just saying well we should tell our committees i got it but I guess I'm I'm curious on what Jeff and
again maybe Jeff and I just need to talk about this a little bit more but at some point we need to talk about the next level of public engagement um because not the public other than you know if they happen to see the packet doesn't really know where we're going um so we need to make sure that we're vetting these things um with them so yeah Kathy
if if if the committee you know if the board is willing to give us a little bit of leeway to get through like we want to present some more some more complete information to you in May and I think that would be a good time for us to talk about what do we do next for communication because I guess we would
have in theory we would have between May and about August you know to to figure out a you know I think a survey is is important i think I think that's a one of going to be the one of the best ways for us to re-engage because I think
we're we might be past the point of bringing people into you know a large meeting room and workshop stuff i think we're we're at the point of making sure that you know like like the questions we're asking you guys did we miss anything um what are what are the issues that you think are most important um but
we should probably strategize about that and talk you know about a game plan for kind of a final outreach either prior to the planning board holding the public hearing um and andor prior to town meeting i think that's going to be kind of the emphasis is that people are aware
of this before it gets to town meeting and and we have not fleshed out the best way to do that just yet madam Chair Mr saving i know we all hate meetings but maybe um I think when we had our original focus groups there were
probably 50 people the number online and number on people and we probably have a list of some of those people maybe it' be possible to bring some of them back in a in a you couple hour focus group of you know hand select a handful of those people and bring them back and you know
they are aware of what we are doing from the get-go so bring them back as a quick focus group as you're rather than trying to put together a survey monkey or something like that that might be a just as effective way i don't know just a
thought it's a tricky one because there's so much information and how do you like present that to people in a coherent comprehensive way that's why I'm always impressed by the presentations the commission does because they usually have very detailed wide scoping things
so it's a lot of data to go through it is it is and you know I don't know i mean Madam Chair can I just comment on it yes Mr chair and Kathy I guess my comment just sitting there thinking about it i think a survey is a great idea but as we talked about you know what do you send in the survey just the
action items and there's enough meat there i mean this in the end is going to end up being a living document that we're asking whether it be the select board or town staff or whoever to use as a guide i'd love to get some public engagement just as Jim said with what's
in this document and have we gone down the right road or have we steered off into the farm you know so and actually the the times we have had public engagement they've been very successful uh the initial one and then the one we just hit a while ago and well attended
and very successful pleasantly surprised but we also have to be respectful of where Jeff's coming from having done this in many many communities and where we are in the timeline and that we may have to modify our expectations about getting physically people in a room anymore but I don't
disagree that it's always been a positive experience but at you know but we're at the we're at the three quarter poll as we head towards you know the most three most important horse races of the year i think if we can get the action items slim down you know maybe
the survey is is a little bit more generic you know that doesn't go into this level of detail and it's you know one to five what do you how important is it to you and if we're getting five in five and that's kind of what we did in the open space in rec five you know everyone was like this is all important okay so we know that we're on the right track because everyone thinks this is
relatively important there was room for comments and people were certainly willing to share their comments especially about wait for it pickle ball okay sorry we hear some pickle ball comments anyway yeah Jeff and I can can brainstorm a little bit more about that we also don't want to have the open
space and rec plan um survey was way too long oh yeah way too long so I think we'd have to really a gift card at the end yeah I think so yeah I'm willing to have a conversation with Kathy and bring it back to the planning board i think I think a survey to to help validate a lot of the key
especially the key actions that the town will be taking over the next 10 years i think I think a survey is a good platform for that and maybe a a combination of what Jim said maybe a focus group if not making sure that those people who have been enga engaged get to take that survey just to I think
a lot of what we would want to do now is validate the key ideas right and a survey like Kathy said ranking ranking certain things um is a relatively easy process for people and it's not as laborious as taking you know the open
space plan surveys are are often really long and I think at the tail end we probably would want to make it so that we're just raising continuing to raise awareness for people so if they're clicking on buttons that say you know um continue to uh pursue PAS treatment um
continue the wastewater treatment project focus on Route 28 for development you know protect the beaches and and waterways i think I think that validation would be really critical for us to have to kind of cap off the plan so um Kathy and I will put our heads together and come up with a plan for for
kind of the the last you know couple months of the project sounds great thank you Jeff uh anything more on the on the plan okay uh next on our agenda is uh uh
Madaki's utilization committee update yes um well you'll be happy to know that the um the MUK consultant has been selected and it's BSC group so Jeff and Heather are also going to be
helping the town um with co taking all those different ideas those one ideas that all these different land use teams come up with and then coalesing that and trying to come up with the different uh three different uh concept plans for for further review um so we did and I'm
going to let Peter talk about the CEDC meeting um but the next one um the next meeting uh for the recreation is on April 9th at at 6 pm and then open spaces uh April 15th at 5:00 pm um CEDC
also has another meeting later uh the economic group on April 28th so all of this is on the schedule that's on the town website under the Madakis Utilization Project sort of encourage everybody to take a look at that um Bill Scott's also added a bunch more information on there he's has every each
group has all their brainstorming has been summarized and is included on there as well as some additional background reports um so he's as new information comes around it gets puts on put on that web page so I would encourage people to to take a look at that and the next MUK
meeting is April 14th where BST group is going to be kind of introducing themselves and going over the schedule of their work mixed use before Madam Chair can I ask Jeff a quick question sports complex how big is the staff of BSC
would you you said how big is the staff just out of curiosity is it the uh Well BSC it's broken up into different groups or divisions so the planning the planning division is um Heather is the director and myself and
there's another person in the office named Oxa and she and I are both senior planners and then we have Adam who I think most of you actually met Adam is is the staff planner and then kind of attached sort of to the side is the vice president uh of the company is Jeff
Fasser so he's a landscape architect and a certified planner so he's kind of overseeing the planning division and then from there we have you know ecologists and engineers and um transportation folk who are are all in different departments and they all have
separate staff groups and things like that four and a half people that's what I heard him say four and a half he said planning division yeah some are attached four full one part no but I mean that's the scope yeah we we are actually having a staff meeting um with BSC group
tomorrow to kind of talk about the work that they're doing for us and then uh the extra work we gave them and then the the muck so they they're going to be very very busy um but they now the one of the things that's very valuable is they now know yarmit you know they know
all the players in town hall they you know they they have a really good understanding of our community that to start with a new consultant they wouldn't have and it would be kind of an educational process there so and there was a tree there was a tree uh you know a a structure of how BSE works with the
other components so we also have GIS people and so there was a proposal submitted that has kind of that framework for how BSE would handle that and then Kathy this might be too much but we did have a subconsultant as an architect from from Yarmouth on board
with that project to help with some of the um estimates of probable costs and floor plans and and some of the potential rendering so we had to you know put together a team for that i agree it is it is good to have a company that has familiarity with with
the town i know there's other um organizations of private companies that have done quite a lot of work in the engineering areas and others that they have a working knowledge with the town so it's beneficial to do that so good
and Samson and Samson did the open space and w plan right they've done a lot of That's one of the ones that comes to mind is got a lot of work in town that they know us yeah they're also working on the recreational field study and for the
capital plan yep you're right so I didn't know whether Peter wanted to talk a little bit about CDC so two meetings down one to go um essentially you know it you know people look at I mean many of you have already been on
CDC so you sort of know you know what we're working with and I think people well I think the CDC is looked at as the um the economic development group and we all know that you know um you know our meeting our last meeting not not muk
meeting was uh two hours two hours 30 minutes and an hour and 50 minutes was spent on you know sand castles and puppet puppet shows and different things you know so we're limited you know in in terms of what we can churn out for economic development and I think we're
we're we're this is outside of the muck obviously part of what you know is going on now but I think we're getting there but our involvement in the muck committee I think we're going through the exercise as many other committees are and it's it's a matter of you know
what can we do to create an economic development opportunity at Madakis and I think what I think where we're steering sort of our attention to is trying to find out how we can get back to Route
28 you know how can we take maybe some of the town's needs whether it's a fire station expanding the school using Madakis for those sort of things so that we can maybe get back to focusing on 28 because what truly can we get economic
development out of Madakis it's all going to be you know the ripple effect of what so that being said our ideas are standalone indooroutdoor sports complex uh sports complex with event
space and some mixeduse development including sports events retail housing of some type and I think that's where we're at we left the meeting and those were the ideas that I think we sort of funneled
into three and whether or not those are the last three or the three it's some variation of those three things that I think we're looking at um to give you an idea of where the other um the chamber side was before the
meeting their ideas were put together in a packet you know all of our ideas came together in one packet but I mean some of their ideas were you know included such examples as um Tanglewood you know some place like
Tanglewood tangle Wood did you say Tanglewood okay um music venue we could use an event space like the um Mass Mutual Center Boston Convention Center i mean some pretty you know
Yes ambitious did those come from the chamber or were those from the consultant trying to come up with examples based on the consultant listened to what the chamber was saying and came back with those ideas now the consultant came back with those ideas
well know the consultant I was I I don't know how they they got to paper but that's was the consultant's understanding of what the chamber group was saying now at the same time um sports complexes like the sports complex
like um Starwood and Handover Longplex Family Sports Center Tiver and Rhode Island Fort Kicks Taton um Fort Kicks Golf and Sports Center Norfolk Mass um so some other smaller venues that would include um indoor courts outdoor courts
um maybe a pool um something for seniors you know um gymnasium for seniors pickle ball actually didn't come up i actually didn't unless they didn't hear it pickle ball didn't come up um got it covered if this court is going to be pickled after
Sandy gymnasium um you know some of our ideas were um part of our part of our ideas too were was you know a walkable mixeduse um project that included
um a combination of office space maybe having the hospital come on board um taking some of the office um needs of the hospital away from the hospital and maybe bringing them towards Madakis
okay as Mr scott said you know a lot of that is nonprofit and that's not going to really enhance our tax base so maybe not office you know um I don't even know how much the hospital has really reached
out to us and ever you're shaking your head no that's kind of not to my knowledge right and and to I mean they had all of that land on Addicts Lane they purposely didn't do anything with they sold it off they've actually used Right right and they're using it for something else now because you know
there's a whole bunch of regulations that go into hospitals and sites for hospitals there's federal funding that comes into play with the hub is at the central hub and I don't know the numbers I've been told by my boss about why they
built and where they built it it's all about federal subsidies and how much money they can get out of the feds to build complexes within a certain radius of there will be none anymore well yeah I'm not I'm not making that comment sus not going there yeah I'm not going there
i'm talking about in the past um 10 years ago that was the that was the build in what were you saying so that was why the stuff on Addex Lane got built because as the crow flies it was a certain distance from the hospital and also had to do with you know housing density within the region there's a
whole formula a federal formula where you get reimbured by the feds well as Susan said that's probably dried up so but it is educational that there hasn't been a further expansion of the medical use of that property in fact it's been my understanding right Ken they've actually the hospital has sold oh no
it's done i just remember when to make it more when they did the DRRi for the tower that they're building now people were pushing them towards the addicts lane and there was a very legitimate reason why they couldn't go there or they needed to get all types of different types of approvals for that
site to be a medical there was two there was two reasons why they didn't go over there with what they built on the hospital grounds one being permitting with the town and two being infrastructure the infrastructure to support you know electrical sewage all
that stuff was already pretty existing which brings us to back to Madakis because it's those issues are going to be driving a lot of what actually happens on that site right and last time I checked there was no sewers well okay so Bill Scott did say right he um
applied for grants to bring the sewer down behind is that right Kath yeah he he's applying for I think um he put his letter kind of our interest into the onetop the applications I don't believe are due until June but was for like a 15% design of a sewer system coming down
that particular way what might happen uh if we could maybe extend that also up to the um exit 7 or 72 area because right now there's no retail there but who knows if you have a sewer line coming down that might make some sense of maybe doing some reasonzoning in that particular area too and you have the
rail trail coming down there you got the rail trail coming allegedly in the near future Oh it's already already clearing the trees i know but you know until it until it happens happens it isn't happen already all right so you know so some some combination of a sports complex I think
is where we're at you know some combination of a mixeduse development sports events retail housing um creating rec recreational opportunities for um residents um you know we we they did have good representation on their side
certainly from um you know the hotel the restaurant um other stakeholders you know that that you know came came forward with some great ideas so I I think it was you know it's productive but at the same time you know um I'm an appraiser right you highest and best use
what can we do there we don't know and um so this is this is it's it's a it's an exercise you And um but I I think some good things came out of it and um we'll see we'll see what the final three are but there'll be some variation of those
whatever I just said those three you know they're all very similar so um but there are you know one of the things that came up at the first meeting you know that I had mentioned and and it was already in motion was you know we need a
new we need a new fire station over in Bass River so you know and everybody know it's I'm I'm assuming it's old right so I'm I'm assuming we do and older than you we're going to have all this housing on Route 28 and it's going to probably be there's going to be more people and more housing units so it only makes sense so and we need a new school
and you know does it make sense to we need a new library right so does it make sense to sort of consolidate some of these things and give us back some of the Route 28 acreage land whether it's this building whether it's um some part
of the I I don't know but there you know the chamber building you know at the four corners at the the intersection there doesn't make much sense to build a fire station over there you got to get station three right around the corner yeah well no but maybe the fire station goes here yeah this land fire station
across the street and a great big open field so many dominoes i don't know it's only money right um so that's where we're at [Music] i'm I do have an update on housing
because we met on March 17th um and uh they came up with three scenarios obviously all housing one would be just mixed residential uh and they had a moderate
and an elevated uh uh proposal of um using six acres for approximately 62 units or using 12 acres for 135 units um the next one was mixed
residential and specialized housing this was a discussion which I I think in my opinion is going to go nowhere about collaborating with the Yarmouth Housing Authority it's just not it's just not going to happen they're a state agency
um and I can't imagine that um having some kind of a cooperative agreement with them is is in the is in the short term doable um so um but on the committee is a member of
the Yarmouth Housing Authority um so on CHC uh so um you know and that was there's this program called soldier on which is primarily for vets that are it's kind of
congregate housing um single room kind of thing um and again that was kind of a specialized um use uh that we that the Yarmouth housing authority member had had brought forward how I
mean just the land and the relationship and the legality of it would very very difficult to I think to to move forward um anyway the third scenario was mixeduse residential and community uses
uh including uh a gyms game rooms uh daycare center wellness center um and small shops maybe with housing above uh so those were the three that we came up with and our next meeting um is at the
end of April I think i forget when see when we're meeting kathy I thought you were done um just saved you a meeting Madam Chair yeah I thought that was your third one was on the March 17th meeting um and I think um it's been you're
funnel your funnel i think you're funnel down the funnel anymore um I believe that Mary had um run it by the Affordable Housing Trust and I think she might be running it by the community housing committee um but I think they do have the the elevated and the the um the
more moderate option um related more towards the first one that you were talking about with the six acres 62 units and 12 acres but I think they went down to like 124 units kept it to like double right now the housing production plan requires um like 62 units to be
created annually so they just said either you know one year's worth on this site or maybe maximum would be the the higher one would be the two units um and I think still leaving some ability open there for like some collaboration in those numbers with veterans i think there was some affordable housing that
was that was um home ownership like six to 12 units of that and then they were also talking I think about 6 to 12 units of um some type of housing that might be related to municipal employees i'm sorry I didn't print it out i wish I had yeah um madam chair may maybe deerra knows
from community housing committee a little I I it was a difficult meeting first of all it was delayed for almost 40 minutes because of technical and I was zooming in um so you know I may I may have missed the end just because of the technical difficulties it was not
really not it wasn't it wasn't a great meeting but I didn't realize that we had actually come to some decisions towards the end they did come to some decisions There was an actual there was a vote um of some kind well it was sort of a
summary by the uh consultant the Barrett consulting people a summary of what they felt the consensus had been and they would be writing it up and that as Kathy said 124 units as the max the elevated
yep okay um and there affordable 124 affordable they're talking about um only 125 units i think 25 to 50% of it would be affordable yeah in that range so there would be some some market rate units a lot of mixed discussion
discussion about the affordable versus market rate and the size of the units and all that and they they did come to some conclusions i didn't get it all written down but I I have what the proposal was it was for 45 onebedroom and studio 42 bedrooms and 15
threebedrooms and of them 25% of all of them would be affordable i think I think the the way they they did the range at the end was to follow the um I think it was the lip stand the local um program I think I think it was 25 to
50% went to the affordable housing trust and I think they made some minor edits to it and I think it's going to the community housing committee you haven't seen it no I haven't seen anything yet so you should see something uh coming back they had met together the affordable housing trust and and community housing committee and then
they took all that great information bear summarized it they sent it to the affordable housing trust they had a few minor edits and now it's going to go to the community housing committee to get your final approval on it before it gets submitted to mach was my understanding okay madam Chair no more than I do and Dedra that's good and and there was a
lot of discussion about the the fact that housing does require the sewer a lot more than some of the other uses and that there also will be a lot of need for parking and um and we did talk about parking maybe infrastructure in general
yeah and and they talked about uh putting the housing in the back corner sort of and and having room for all the other uses they did talk about locations where they thought that sort of thing and the the one question I I didn't get to raise there and I hate to take
everybody's time but you know there is a if I understand Mr iraq there is a cap there is a capacity that we've we that the that this the water um wastewater treatment plant will have even if we get
all of these agreements eventually and and we so the the and there is some if I remember this discussion with between you and Kathy at one point we've built in some growth yeah that doesn't exist now some some housing that doesn't exist
I'm wondering if this kind of a large project um is one that that would accommodate that that the sewage treatment plant could even if there were a sewer do we would it have the the the capacity to accommodate this this many
units yeah I think when we were looking at the in the grow in that growth addition yeah I think maybe right now um it's like 750,000 gallons per day of potential future growth uh so I think there's a good chunk i think the key is
you know can you get rid of the effluent um but the the comprehensive wastewater plan was like the 3.54 million gallons per day and that included about 750,000 gallons of growth of growth well it will it will require some cooperation from our friends at the state department of
environmental protection in order for us to even have phase one to be handled much less anything beautiful and wonderful that we tried to do on the medication the vast majority of that growth was obviously happening in phase one right so a big chunk of that money the the gallonage was coming from phase
one phase one oh okay okay madam chair could I ask a quick question how many more units do we need to create to get to 10% oh I I don't know what 600 600 no I don't think it's that many Kath
i I do i thought Mary had made a only reason I asked that is because here I look at we have it's the life mission of certain individuals and committees to get to 10% yeah you got a 70 acre parcel of
land and you're talking about so many units affordable and so many units not affordable make them all affordable and get to your damn 10% i don't understand why you wouldn't do that c can I say like the the anomaly of the subsidized housing inventory is
if you have a uh rental build apartment building and maybe only 25% of them are affordable you get to count all of them on your subsidized housing inventory for rental apartments so even though we say we have
600 it it it may not be truly 600 subsidized it's just one of those an anomalies that how they calculate it i mean I'm all in favor my personal preference is the the sports complex um idea but gee if we're trying to
eliminate the the issue of affordable housing and you've got 70 plus acres to play with you can take a serious whack out of that number if you given up a once in a-lifetime economic development opportunity not if you do it the right way you could have both can be right at the same time you could build a sports
comp complex with housing that's why we have that's why we have a buck committee that's why we have a funnel jim exactly that's That's the funnel if you're listening we hear you bro can I just make the comments funnel i'm on I'm on the I'm on a committee that's never met so you're finished and I've never met um
so we haven't met the education hasn't met either probably want to know and it will never because you have no federal funding i had and probably will never get it um but I had an idea so I spoke to Kathy and I said you know I have this idea what should I do with it and then I said maybe I'll give it to Peter because
he's on the economic development you know on the economic development group and then is working with the muck you know I looked at this a little bit differently i looked at it from the point of view is what what does the town have and what the developers want we
have assets in terms of location we have a lot of buildings a lot of the town owns a lot of land along 28 which is our main corridor our commercial corridor uh not all of it but a good chunk of it we own this site we own the site across the street we own the corner of West Yamath
and Route 28 we have the senior center we've got some very valuable pieces of property along 28 um so my thinking was you know we we've got that and developers would want that because of location they bring money and expertise and we bring the asset to the to the big
table and then from that relationship we try to get we now we want to have something at Madakis that's the jewel and the crown but we also would like some open space stuff we'd like maybe some housing we looking at I looked at
all the subcommittees could we accommodate the needs of each one of these subcommittees in a broader look at what we have in terms of assets and so I was my proposal was to have the town look at what we own along 28 also to the senior center
um and and try to talk to developers and say look we've got would you be interested in partnering with us developing these other sites you'll have an opportunity on 28 to make money particularly if you do like I don't know a decent hotel or restaurants whatever it is and we will share with you we'll
give you our asset for let's say you have a 25 you have 100red-year ground lease we always retain the property but you're going to have a 100redy year ground lease 25 years you make all profits and or 15 years at the end of the 16th year we start sharing in some of the profits so that we so that we
become more of a partner but we give we we partner with them on the asset they bring the expertise and the money but don't limit it just to medic incorporate some of the other sites that we own along 28 because that's that is economic development matakis is the jewel in the
crown and unfortunately it's not on 28 but it's a huge site so the combination of that site and and the size of it and some passes along 28 maybe we could put a bundle together and say to developers are you interested in this we'll we're going to we'll we if you if you we want
the town hall site okay but you've got to you've got to replace that over at Madakis at a minimum that's got to go over to Madakis and would have you know a one-stop shop would have a you know town hall and maybe piggyback the sports you know complex on that because you
have a lot of open space you could have meeting rooms so it was sort of like it's a fairly you know simple idea you know we've got stuff you've got stuff uh we don't have what you have we don't have money and we don't have a lot of expertise but and we've got location and that and for developers that is the
that's the mother's milk of development is a great location um I sort of sent Peter an email with sort of outlining that and I think I sent it to to but so I if I never go to the Bill Scott got it bill Scott if I never go to the um I
think he is working on city services subcommittee oh that's my idea basically your idea is Reese's Peanut Butter Cups chocolate peanut butter it's OPM it's other people's money it's great no but I'm saying it's it's I got it because
we've had some sites along 28 that we own that are are very valuable i mean the corner of 28 and and uh West Yamato throat opposite the cemetery we don't own the corner i thought we owned that site one lot over we owe a lot one lot one lot over okay all right so we Susan
would you be willing to concede that our libraries are also valuable properties on Route 28 definitely absolutely not Not the West Yamouth one but the others of course because that's not on Route 28 all right i'd like I'd like to I'd like to get back on track here yes ma'am i'd like to get back on track because But
that was So I don't know what to do with that but it's it's now on the record so that's that's a good thing thank you um I appreciate that um Can I add one more thing yes you may okay whatever happens at Madakis you know the B3 zoning down the street is not very
accommodating to you know and that's something that I had mentioned early on the first meeting that's you know you want a cup of coffee you're going to go to Hyannis or where you going to go if you're at Madakis i mean because every you know the B3 is all pretty much
office allowed by right right restaurants not allowed by right and that's everything but it's not an interchange you can't even have a little convenience store on Midtec Drive no so something Well that would have to change but I mean if we're going to go
also the home of our adult entertainment district as well no not Midtech Drive that's not the Not specifically i'm talking about that that general area at Anel Howlet I think is that the cutoff that's the only road or adult that's one road adult Ancel Howlet Adult
Entertainment District there's a lot of land that's wellhead protection there too so but there is definitely some parcels that would benefit from some zoning especially if you can bring the sewers up there because it is in the zone too
okay moving on meeting minutes may I have a motion to accept the minutes of January 15th so moved second any discussion all in favor i I I may I have a motion to accept the minutes of March
5th 2025 so moved second any discussion they were very well written yes they were very well written as always thank you i All in favor i unanimous unanimous um anything correspondents or staff
updates kath I think we updates oh unless Mr sabin do you have a committee update um I do um although it is not mentioned in the comprehensive plans community systems community character and cultural
heritage um I'd like to remind the public that the pockets river landing boardwalk planks are still for sale and the board of selectman just accepted over $12,000 in purchases for boardwalk planks so maybe we'll get it added to
the community character and cultural heritage section of the uh LCP but in the meantime $350 for single $450 for for a nonprofit and 550 for a business and there are a bunch of them already out there so Jim when do we get to
launch our kayaks next summer I would guess october it'd be Yeah it'd be fall before you you this year oh heck the entrance is really up think the Kathy Williams lights are up the foundation's they were installed this week so now you've got the bridge
and it looks very very nice it's pretty cool the foundation is in for the bathroom facilities the boardwalk they're starting to put the blanks along the so you don't stick your head in progress cool um look for some more drone footage also yeah it's it's coming along it's pretty cool great thank you
yeah we just had we just put in a big batch of I think it might be the last batch of engravings that are going to Robert B hour to have engraved and put out um because they want to be pretty much they want to wrap up the uh the boardwalk in
the near future but we do have the veterans ones are going to be going down I believe tomorrow um so the second batch of the engravings have all been engraved so it's exciting keep them checks coming anything Kath from staff updates or
anything else you want to Yeah the only thing I wanted to talk about is um the hazard mitigation plan we're having a community meeting next Wednesday uh April 9th at 5:30 here in this room and also remote access it's on the main calendar on the town website uh kind of
talking about um you know the benefits of an purpose of an H hazard mitigation plan um where we are in the process the results of the survey that we had done uh and then also start talking maybe about some uh action items that might uh get some public input on on those as we
move forward with that we're hoping to have that done by the end of the year uh as well a lot of those ideas for action items that we've been working on have been incorporated into uh the documents you guys went through this evening specifically related um a lot of them to the coastal resiliency
i'm sorry that anything else i'm sure there's more things I can't um our next meeting is April 16th right and then we have town meeting at the end of the month 29th put that in because we don't have anything is that the 29th the 29th yeah yeah just as good point yeah
there's nothing from us some committee members will be there for other committees um and then what what's the meeting in May ke May May 7th may 7th yep okay all right any other any other questions
or concerns okay madam Chairman I'd like to make a motion to adjourn this wonderful meeting that we've had this evening second all in favor i thank you Mr s you're quite welcome Madam Chair all right all right all right recording
stopped then we have a bigap again