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Yes, >> we're on. >> Okay, the talk. >> Put this away. >> Good evening and welcome to the June uh 17, 2026 Yarmouth Planning Board meeting. I am Joanne Crowley, chair. The

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public is welcome to attend in person this evening or via alternative public access provided on the notice of meeting available on the town of Yarmouth website. I'd like I'd like to call roll call now. Uh Susan Brida present. >> Deedra Gaquin >> present. >> Tom Pendleton

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>> present. >> Will Rubenstein >> here. >> Peter Slovak. >> Ken Smith >> here. >> Joanne Crowley present. Seeing that we have a quorum present, I will now call the meeting to order. Please join me in the pledge of >> allegiance to the flag of the United States of

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America and to the republic for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all. >> Thank you so much. First item on our agenda this evening is

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uh the old main street replanting plan. I believe Amanda Lima is here to join us uh and from the uh Department of Public Works uh to review plans for tree replacement and the storm water storm water retrofit on Old Main Street. Uh in

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our packets this [clears throat] evening uh are the following documents. the June 5th invitation to a Butters along Main Street, uh the May 30th uh decision that we made uh 2024, the scenic road decision, a

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locust map showing trees removed and the replanting plan prepared by Horsely Whitten. So, I'll turn it over to Kathy if you want to run through your uh planner notes and then maybe we'll run it by you, Amanda, and you can walk us through what we're what we're looking at this evening. Thank you.

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>> Yes, certainly. I'm sure you may all remember back to May of 2024, um the town of Yarmouth, DBW, came before us along with the tree warden asking to remove 10 trees along Old Main Street that were impacting their ability to install uh the sewer line uh mostly

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ashes. I believe they were um and ultimately the board decided that u it would be acceptable to remove them, but they wanted to have a replanting plan at at least one to one uh and then to come back within two years uh and present that planting plan uh to the planning

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board as well as to invite neighbors from the old main street area um in order to uh see the presentation of the actual finalized or closely finalized planting plans. They had some ideas at the time back in 2024, but I think they finalized it now. hand it over to Amanda

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a little bit more detail. >> Yeah, thanks for joining us, Amanda. We appreciate it. >> Thank you, Amanda Lima. I'm the town engineer and um I'm going to take just a big picture. I know um I'm here for a specific for the replanting as part of the sewer work, but just to kind of um

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look at all of Old Main Street, a couple in 2023, we um got a grant and was working with APCC and Horesley Whitten to look at improving storm water. Um as part of that, we had a bunch of different conceptual designs in which one of two of them broke up Old Maine

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into two different watersheds. Uh one watershed is about 26 acres and that's to the east and then to the west is 33 acres. Um so the project here tonight um because it's nice to pursue grants and to get this funding for construction. Um

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this one is um currently under design is being funded by the Massachusetts Office of Coastal Zone Management for a grant for coastal habitat and water quality. So the west side of Old Maine discharges to Bass River. So our intent is to improve the water quality by replacing

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the trees as part of the sewer work. We're also going to be d uh directing the storm water runoff to help water the trees and also do the nutrient intake uptake, excuse me, to the nutrients that are going to Bass River. So, there's a a

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bigger picture. Um, so, uh, again, this part is just the west side. So, in the future, we're going to be doing the east side. Um, the cost estimate for the work that was provided in your packet is over a half a million dollars, which will be hopefully funded. We submitted a grant

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this early this spring, and we'll find out by the end of summer. Um, but it's for a half a million dollars to do these pre-trenches, what we call it. um we redirect the catch basin runoff into a perforated pipe and it allows the tree you know to be able to grow and to provide that um the nutrients to the

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tree. So um so again so we're kind of focusing on so when you're looking at the ratios um what we're proposing tonight is uh 14 trees for the 10 that we did take down. However, the 14 trees are only within the area that we took

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down six of the 10 trees. the remaining four will be part of a future storm water project on Old Maine. So, so just to kind of understand kind of where you're at because it's a very large stretch of roadway. So, we're going to even though we've got the sewer in there, um we're going to be continuing

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to improve the storm water quality and that's that's really DPW's goal for that. Um and then within the packet, I wasn't able to have um our consultant or the tree warden here, so I do apologize when it comes to specific trees. Um we're working with Eversource and the

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different arborist um to have here and I don't know if Cath Oh, there you go. Perfect. Um the five different trees that are consultant Horesley Whitten had selected two of them are on all five are all native. Two of them are on the Eversource which um the first one um is

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this service berry and then the second slide is on the Eversource approved list. This one here, this eastern rose bud. Those are the ones that are native which is one of the requirements and also um

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approved by Eversource. So the other three I've submitted to Eversource to see if they would consider um it is good to you know diversify the trees. Um I kind of would like you know if there's certain feedback if you know if we just go with the two species or if you'd like

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to see all five I think that would be good feedback um to hear tonight. Um right now we're currently in 75% design um drawings that have been submitted by the consultant and we'll be working on final if we are selected for the grant which we'll find out at the end of the

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summer we'll get through um 100% we don't need to permit it because we're not near any wetlands and then we would put it out to bid over the winter and then for a spring 2027 um construction window that summarizes I would just point out that all of these trees would be

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underneath overhead utility lines. So, it's really important that Eversource is good with that. And I know we had also talked about maybe locating some of the trees on the south side, but there's a gas man that was mapped in when they did their survey that kind of prohibits them from putting that um any new trees on

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the south side. >> Questions from the board. Miss Bur, >> a couple of tech. What divides east and west? You said this is the west portion. What is the street that divides east and west? >> Have I have the schematics? Let's see. It's

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about It's four parcels to the west of Crosby Street. Is the >> Crosby >> for us? It's how you delineate um the watersheds. That's why that's why they're two separate. >> So that's where you that's where you took the Okay. And then one other does does the utility

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have a have a preference on the trees or they just don't care as long as it's >> for the Eversource. The first two listed are the ones that Eversource has already on their pre-approved list. Um our consultant had came up with a few extras, but then upon review with Kathy, some of them might still end up being

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too tall. Um so I did send them to Eversource to see if they would provide feedback, but if I had to guess, they probably are going to end up sticking with their approved the first two that you saw on the screen >> and I assume that's the 20 the 20 foot and under one they want to keep them

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under. Okay, >> the um watering those trees. Is there an irrigation system in there? They're going to who's going to be in charge of watering these trees once they get planted? >> So, usually Yeah. So, the contractors are responsible for providing

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establishment. Um so, whether that's a watering bag um usually it's that first year really important. But the nice part of this is that we're redirecting the catch basin flow. So every time it does rain, it will go right to the trees first. >> Awesome. >> And whatever if it it reaches its

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capacity, it would overflow and then go back into the existing drainage. That's >> okay. >> Thank you, Julian. >> Anyone else? >> Mr. Pson, >> I have a couple. >> If you could your mic. >> Yeah. Hello. Um just a couple of quick

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questions. How close to the road will these be? And how close will these be to then cross street? So my concern a little bit is just for example this magnolia coming out of a side street or a driveway it it's very low to the ground. Your sight lines aren't going to

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be very good. So um I'm just wondering how will sight lines be protected. So drivers we all know we're getting older. We don't see very well coming out. >> When Kathy and I were discussing it I the the last two I don't was it the last two or

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the last three basically I have a feeling that ever source won't end up it but yeah so we we look for making sure that you can see at least you know three and a half feet and up so we wouldn't be blocking but it is in between we're going to be we're going to be disturbing

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the area from the road edge to the back of the sidewalk. So in every area where we're moving that whole area and putting in basically like a stone bed and the perforated pipe and then we're rebuilding the sidewalk and putting the tree Kathy, can you show which two trees again? I'm sorry that because there's

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five different ones I'm looking at in this packet. >> It's the page >> service and the eastern red >> service to be the last two in the pack >> in the back of the Yeah, this one. Yeah, >> that's why we're trying to page. I was

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trying to just figure out from a height standpoint >> because some of the taller ones I'm just concerned that they're going to get like the trees that were there that get all hacked up once they grow up into the line. So >> So these are mature height of 15 to 20, right? And um the next one is 20 to 30.

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>> Amanda, what's the schedule of this work? >> It would be next spring >> if we are selected for the grant >> of 27, >> right? >> What's the backup plan if you're not selected for the grant? >> Um As of right now, we've been funded continuously. The I mean there is no

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guarantee, but we've uh made a really good progress on our other projects. Um so we are a good candidate, but that is no there is no guarantee, but uh but we if we weren't selected um they did change the way that the grants are submitted in which they combined a bunch

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of grants called the um eco onetop. So they combined a bunch of them all together. So, um, for example, we submitted on packet landing for that parking lot that was raised is within the same grouping as this project for storm water. So, there's different goals. We haven't heard back if they'll

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be selective like, oh, we'll fund this part of your grant. They seem to want to have more flexibility on the state side, which is a little less favorable by the town who has their own initiatives and goals. Um, so if if we're not selected, then um we would either have to figure

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out a way to try to reduce the scope or wait until we're can submit again. >> Madam Chair, >> yeah, Mr. >> Thank you for being here. Um, my first question has to do with have we gotten any feedback from the neighbors, from the people who really are going to be

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the most affected as opposed to us nice people who are doing our best. >> Nate Weton is my senior project manager. Um, he has reached out to the butters that are in this western scope of work. Um he is out on medical that's why he's not joining us and he won't be back for a few more weeks but we do have time. He

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has reached out we heard back from Wanda Butter that would like to have shrubs instead of trees. So we're going to look into that. Um but he has reached out and they did also um refine the survey to make sure that we're not impacting private properties. >> Okay. So it's an ongoing process and a

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lot can happen between now and even after you get the grant. In other words, you know, I I have my opinions and obviously we have a I don't even want to use this word governmental responsibility to to do what we're doing as a planning board, but ultimately a

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lot of what I think I'd love like to see happen should be to make the neighbors happy because they're the ones that are the most, you know, the most affected. So, I guess what I'm asking is, is this an ongoing process with you, the tree warden, Nate, the neighbors, Kathy, Madam Chair? Is that just going to be an ongoing thing?

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>> All my friends live on Old Main Street. >> Well, wow. It's a really big town. It's a really big town. >> What about the rest of town, Madam Chair? Anyway, >> generally, yeah, it was favorable. >> That's the only place where they removed the trees. >> We had a lot of good like technical questions that got asked. I kind of like pushed our consultant and I know they responded to those. Um and u and Nate,

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you know, does a a fantastic job with the public outreach for the people who are directly >> Okay. My my last question has to do with I've been thinking a lot about the fact that we're in a drought and um I'm not a weather person. I just play one on TV and at planning board meetings and I

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noticed that the two trees that are on the Eversource list are not what I would call terribly drought tolerant whereas the other ones are most of the other ones. And I don't know what's going to happen. None of us do. But it doesn't feel like we're ever we're going to be

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getting out of we're going to be getting back into the wet t the wet times anytime soon. So I'm just you know slightly concerned again to the extent that I can and should be. >> That was actually one of my qu are all the new trees in a trench. They're all

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supported by the trench. >> Correct. um which I think is what um Amanda had mentioned earlier that there's going to be when there is rain >> it'll be >> feed the trench if I if I understand you correctly Amanda >> right I'm just concerned isn't we just

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don't seem to get rain here anymore and it hasn't been just anymore it's been for years it's been at least three years >> um by the way I measure things which is our pond >> at camp and it's 20 feet down and it's been that way for three years so I I'm

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I love the fact that it is going to get recycled. I just wonder and I assume there'll be more conversations with the neighbors about how to make sure these awesome trees get put in and then they survive. >> So I I again I it's sort of a strange thing for us to be a part of. Obviously we have a reason to be a part of it, but

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at some level some of the details I even feel weird about asking just because ultimately it doesn't affect my front yard and my front driveway. But I would hope that those conversations would continue with the neighbors and and with all of you as we continue to look to how to put the best long-term trees in

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because again, this was such a great list that you gave us. But it's hard not to notice that some of these like the um Virginiaiana, I'll just leave it at that. Or the the ironwood, good name, uh clearly has a high drought tolerance. Same thing with the there was one other

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the uh the the thornless coxer hawthorne has an excellent drought tolerance but neither of those are on the eversource list. So maybe as you're continuing to look forward if it's possible to find things that are on the Eversource list that just tend more towards they're going to do okay if we

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don't get the kind of rain that we clearly don't seem to get anymore. Thank you, Madam Chair. >> The only thing I would point out is I think there's also a page in here that you have that shows the Eversource list. The only two that are native are those first two that we've been talking about. >> Sure. And I get we're trying to balance

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a lot of uh interests. But anyway, thank you for your time, Miss Lima. Thank you, Madam Chair. >> Yeah, of course. Any other questions uh from the board? Um any further uh deliberations for us? I

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mean, I I've been I I um I'm looking at L9 and L10. uh Amanda and those are the most important um I think documents for us to understand the

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storm water retrofit is something that really doesn't come under our purview but certainly the relocation of the trees and the replanting does um so as I understand it all of the trees that we're thinking of now will be in will be

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in a trench zone so that the likeliood of them getting some water is better than not. >> Correct. >> And they are all on the west side of of Old Main Street. >> Correct. >> Were there any removals on the I I can't

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remember. Were there removals on the east side? >> Yeah, there was four. >> And we are not we are not replacing any of them right in this plan because of the uh natural gas line. Is that what I'm understand? >> This is just so if you're looking at the whole total of the drainage contributes.

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It's over 50 acres. So, we have it gets broken in half based on both outfall pipes that Old Bane goes to go to Bass River. So, this is focusing on the the west side that has one outfall and then eventually we'll be putting in a grant,

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but it will be at a later date would be for the east side. >> And and do you have an estimate of how many trees on the east side, Mike? >> Not at this time. No. >> But there will be some. >> Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, it would be probably the similar density that you know, right now when you're comparing

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the trees that we took out, we're replacing 14 to six. Um, so it probably be something to that order of magnitude. >> And in terms of disruption, um, Old Main Street has been disrupted for years now. Um, and I see that there are, again, I'm

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not an engineer, so I'm not going to be able to understand everything on these drawings, but what kind of disruption and uh, traffic diversions are going to be required for something like this? >> So, we did try to to minimize it on that front. Um, and I, you know, appreciate

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the patience. I know that many from Oldm Maine also have, you know, put in different sign requests and, you know, we're aware of, you know, different fatalities over the years. Um, and and Old Maine is unique in that nature. Um, for this particular work, there's trenches that would just go across the

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road that this basically take if there's a catch basin on either side. Usually the road's crowned and you have a catch basin on either side. So, the one that's right next to the tree trench is pretty easy to direct redirect the flow. Um, but the one that's across the street will have to be piped over. Um, so there there would be a trench across um I

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believe there's uh >> So we're going to what I'm hearing you say is we're going to dig up Old Maine again. >> Unfortunately, yes, we wanted to get this done with the sewer work um but because of the grant timelines unfortunately that that did wasn't was

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not the case and I know that um I I understand the the frustrations with that. >> So if I'm looking at like L L9 I can Um, >> it looks like there's four cross trench. >> There's four total.

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>> So that gray area on L9 is the trench that goes from one side of the street to the other in the far >> in the far corner on L9. L10. >> Yeah. And on L10 as well. >> So there will be four four new cuts.

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Um, >> how quickly can those be done? I mean, is that is that an overnight thing? >> It's not um it's nothing compared to sewer work being 20 plus feet deep. These are only, you know, 5t deep. It's much different than the inconvenience

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for the sewer. >> Okay. >> Uh but there will be noise, >> there will be dust, there will be dirt. Again, I'm just thinking about >> all of my neighbors on Old Maine and

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traffic diversion. Um, so and your anticipation is that this would start in 2027. >> Yes. >> Okay. Spring. >> Yeah. Springtime. >> How long do you think it would take to finish? >> We haven't discussed the duration, but I

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can follow up on that. It's the only reason I ask is the um replacement tree shall be installed within three years of this approval which was in May 30th by ideally I believe the there's a

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little bit more details on the planting windows but they could get them sourced and delivered 15 >> it just may be a case where if you're not done just notifying the planning board and letting us understand Um, Mr.

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Rubenstein just pointed out to me that is a three-year term. Um, so it would be 2027 end of May. >> May of 2027. >> That's what we're talking about. >> That's what we're talking about. >> Um, so they would have to come back for an extension. That's what we were

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talking Sorry. [laughter] >> I wasn't sure. Same conversation. >> It's all my fault. I'm sorry. The clerk The clerk apologizes. >> He's the clerk. >> Yes. It was that was my I was bringing up that point that they were supposed to be installed within three years. So that if that can't happen, then I think that you can just come and notify the

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planning board and ask for a certain extension. Certainly, if they don't get the grant, that's certainly a little bit more complication, but if it's a matter of you're just going to be working on it for a little bit longer next year during construction season, then I think that's something that you guys can just approve

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>> for valid reason. So, so Amanda again, so support from the planning board enhances your opportunities to get the grant or is the grant already been applied for? >> We submitted for it already this past spring. So, you should find out by the end of summer. >> So, any kind of action we take tonight

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doesn't really affect what's going to happen at the state level at this point. >> Okay. Um uh so we have a couple of things for deliberation here for the board. One is

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um if we want to go forward and again focusing on L9 and L10 I think Amanda those are the things that are most interesting to us because that's where we gave you the the tree warden the first approvals. Um, are

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there any are there any suggestions on changes to that? I mean, these are at 75%. It's going to be tough to change >> at some point. Um, but what I think what I'd like to suggest is that um the we

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have a formal motion um that the board approves um especially the the um drawings on L9 and L10. I don't think L1 comes into >> L1 is just the landscaping detail plan. >> Yeah, L1 as well, right? Um

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and I just I'm I'm thinking that um a mo if we want if if everyone's comfortable with it, we can we can have a motion with it. But before we do that, there are members of the public here and I encourage anyone who would like to speak

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um tonight to join in the conversation. uh before we take a vote. >> Okay. >> I don't know if anybody online, Madam Chair, does that include anybody online? We haven't seen any virtual hands yet, but I'll let you know. >> Anyone online uh who's zooming in like

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to join with us here? >> Okay. So Amanda, you'll be back to us at some point um uh when the other side of the street, I guess, uh comes into play, uh because I think that was part of the the original

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>> the original permit, if you will, um that we uh that we >> there's no requirement that it be exactly where it was originally, but obviously we would like to be able to do that. Obviously, they want to do it for a bunch of different storm water nutrient uptake reasons. So, I think

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it's a good synergy between everybody to to get that done. But I think you might consider this as meeting the requirement of the one to one uh if you would like with the request that they come back with the next phase so that we can have these same conversations so people know what's going on on the east side.

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>> Okay. Um, so Kathy's prepared a motion for us to consider uh to approve the old Main Street replanting plan shown on L9, L10, and L11 of the June 2026 plans prepared by Horsley Whitten and

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presented at our meeting this evening um with tree species to be to include the service berry and the eastern rose bud red bud. So moved >> red bud, sorry. >> Yeah, >> I don't know. I don't know if you want to limit it to those particular species, but those are the ones that we know

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Eversource can do. I don't know if you want to put a little caveat at the end or Well, >> yeah. Well, you had you had a good suggestion. >> No, but I think the fact that that will brought up the >> drought resistance. >> There's a couple there that are under 20 that may be a little more drought resistant,

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>> but if it can't be and Ken's Ken's point's right, I mean, it can't be underneath an overhead utility if they're just going to hack. No, but these but one of the ones he pointed out is under >> but unfortunately they're not native and they're not they're not on the eversource list. So I think we're sort of

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>> in a we're in a >> dare I say >> I would assume native takes precedent over everything correct because it's easier to they're easier to grow and more more is that right? >> I'm sorry. >> A native a native species would probably if you had to rank the criteria that

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would probably be the most important. It's required in the decision because that was required by the conservation. >> Okay. So, so native is >> I also think that the first flush maybe I'm wrong with the first flush so even small rainstorms would be directed

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immediately to those. >> Right. So they're intended so the first one inch of rain rain runoff has the most amount of nutrients in it. So all of them except for one is at 83% um meet that first run one inch of runoff. So that's the what is the most concentrated

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for. Yeah. So there's nutrients more. So that >> even small events would go direct would be directed to that versus going to the outfall. >> But then the town is still responsible for maintaining the trees. >> Yes. >> So if we continue to not get any rain or as much as we want despite all the

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really great planning ahead, some some nice people from DPW are going to have to come and water the trees. >> Okay. Well, may maybe we we adjust the language on the motion to say with tree species to include but not limited to.

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>> Yeah. >> Would that work for you, Amanda? >> Uh the service berry and the eastern red bud. >> So moved. >> Second. >> Any discussion? >> All in favor? I

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>> Okay, unanimous. Thank you so much, Amanda. We appreciate you coming. And you're next on the you're next on the agenda. >> Have to reorganize. So, next on our agenda, complete streets policy. Uh the town has completed an

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updated draft complete streets policy. Um, and uh, we received a note through Kathy and Amanda that she's incorporated comments provided to us from the original draft policy which we reviewed a while ago. >> Um, thank you for coming.

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>> Thank you. >> Um, and uh, uh, Kathy is suggesting that we have a memo in support of this. No formal action needs to be taken. Uh but why don't you run through what we have

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here on complete streets, Amanda, if that's okay with you. >> Yeah, I'll just do a little quick snapshot. So, I came to visit uh last August. It's just like exciting. It's [laughter] the last year I've done came at least twice. Um came to the planning board to talk about an idea that um Bob

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Written, our town administrator, had asked for um DPW engineering to pursue, which is the complete policy, which is a mass DOT initiative. Uh and I had given you a synopsis that you know it is the goal is is to fill critical gaps in

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transportation networks giving that Massachusetts municipalities the tools and funding to advance complete streets in their community and that they provide a safe and accessible option for all travel modes walking biking transit vehicles for all ages and abilities and

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um I had shared previously that it's a three tier um program the first tier is adopting the policy which we had drafted and discussed last time the second tier is getting public, you know, input and developing a prioritization plan. And the last step is actually doing more

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projects, which is great to add another funding source. And it's been interesting over the last year, different um fun within Mass DOT, different funding agencies were like, oh, you're not eligible unless you are a complete streets community. And then they decided to remove it all together.

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So now you don't even need to be a complete streets community to get their funing, but they're going to give you more points if you are, which to me would make a lot of sense. So, so I just found it comical over the last year that they've kind of taken this this shift, but um but needless to say um since I've

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been here um the last year um in January went to the disability commission to present the draft policy given the feedback that I got from Joanne. I also asked the Cape Cod Commission to review our draft and they provided comments. In May, I went to the recreation commission

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um also gave them a copy of the d in the intent. Um our those have been our our steps to date. Um we I have a summer intern um Justice who will be setting up tables at both libraries and um also at the senior center and then setting up

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one on the Cape Cod Rail Trail um just to solicit sharing the draft policy. We're going to kind of open it up for like a 30-day public comment and um and then we're going to I asked to go before the select board um August 11th um to share exactly what I just shared with

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you guys tonight on all the outreach that we have done and have completed um for them to consider adopting the policy. >> Okay. Um Kathy, any comments from you? I I didn't realize I thought you were further along, but if you're going to be doing getting a lot more public comment,

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uh maybe you'll be making changes and edits. I don't know whether you would want to wait until it gets the final version that you think are is going to go to this to the select board to to the letter or just we could just um do some type of support of the whole idea of having >> Having support of the idea is is fine.

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Um that I think that would be, you know, helpful. I mean, I'll share that I have, you know, that we started together and are ending together and um and you know, >> but but the the calendar for you is to put it in front of the select board in August,

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>> correct? >> Um and there would be public outreach before then. >> Yeah, we did update the website um to include it. We have the draft policy on there um and you know, contact if you want to um if the public wants to provide comment, we're going to work with um our IT communications department

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to get it posted on social media. So, the kind of the goal and like I mentioned those uh four tabletop outreach opportunities, we'll do those over the next couple weeks um and then wrap it up. >> Madam Chair, >> Mr. Smith, >> you go well. You go.

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>> I just have a suggestion if we have a meeting August 5th, I think it is. >> So, I don't know if the timing works, but but maybe we could see where this is on August 5th before it goes to the select board and then we can write a little memo of of where we what we think when it's August 5th as opposed to July

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June 17th. Just to follow up on your idea, but put it into practice and maybe you know >> that I don't think is necessarily I mean if you provide us with a final draft version you don't necessarily have to come back. I mean there's not going to be a lot of changes. >> I'll let you two decide who >> not going to be a lot of changes versus

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dragging her out for another night meeting. we could just talk about it and and then we could I could even have a draft support memo at that point >> or even in the second meeting in in July depending on the timing of when all the feedback is received but then it would have ample time before August 11th and then we'd see something that's a month

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or six weeks down the road as you suggested. Uh so for tonight any comments that we might have to share with Amanda tonight as she goes forward with the further evolution of this would be helpful I think. So Miss Brut >> just one brief comment Amanda when this

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was developed was there any conversation about the seasonality of particularly kids in the summertime on bikes um and on you know on the main thorough affairs and how we can can we do anything to enhance the safety of

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these kids uh at night leaving work I know it's not an issue in the winter time obviously but I can tell you already you see kids on the motorbikes, no helmets, all that kind of stuff. Was there any was that kind of

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>> there's a lot of conversations about the whole ebike and that evolution that >> right okay that's all I wanted even too new for [laughter] for complete streets and how to incorporate that but um and I know that you know the police take that um >> that matter pretty seriously um yeah

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this is more um when we're putting it together a project for design that we're thinking about >> okay bigger sort of a bigger picture It would be good to have a prioritization plan because I've gotten since I've been here the last seven years, you know, requests here and there about sidewalks. Um, and then, you know, there's some

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Facebook groups that share a little bit more information and, uh, and some, you know, things I hadn't even had heard of and I was like, "Oh, no one's emailed me asking or, you know, requesting anything." We we're doing a lot for complete streets anyway. Um, we're constructing the the one you see on Buck

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Island, right? Um, you know, we did the Higgins Cold shared use path. So, there's we're doing it. This is just allowing us to have additional funding sources because we were going to be limited at one point for the safe routes to school um being able to apply for those projects unless you were a complete streets community but they've

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dropped that requirement. So um and that happened just in this last year and but you never know maybe they bring it back and at least we'll have it as um I had shared before 11 of the 15 communities on the Cape already have an adopted policy. So, and they're all pretty boilerplate. You have to they have a

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whole um requirements you have to score an 80 on and our score is about like an 86. So, it's not like the most conservative measure. Um but it meets the requirements. >> Madam Ch. >> Yeah, Mr. Pendleton. >> Just to follow up with Susan, I agree that a lot more kids on bikes during the

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summer, but also I find it more difficult in wintertime >> when it's darker and a lot of kids on bikes with no lights. I mean, that's that's just that's just a comment. And the other thing, have neighboring towns done this and have you gotten feedback from them? >> Yeah, so 11 communities on the Cape P

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have adopted them. Our neighbors on either side have them. >> Okay. >> And they range from they they first implemented the program in 2016 and everyone was a little hesitant because they thought that they meant that, you know, you had to do certain Yeah. criteria, but that has, you know, been a lot more minimized. If you look at

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online the Cape Cod Commission and we'll have a link on the website, you can click to view all the other towns policies, but there was like a few in 2016 and then there was a bunch in 2022. >> Thank you, >> Madam Chair. One follow. So, we just passed something at Springtown meeting

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relating to the state taking more for the rightway for the for the work that they're about to do on Route 28. So, that had nothing to do with complete streets, but yet we're going to yield. I mean, it's all dovetailing, right? So, >> actually, right. I mean, we we're not officially complete streets, but we are

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going to get a shared use path on the south side of 28 >> while this is all happening. In other words, there's no way that could have been better or a more awesome. We just it's just timing, >> right? >> We don't get any more like we don't get any special consideration or certainly the state just decided as part of the

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tip. They're just going to do it whether we're complete streets or not. >> That's right. I'm just would like to point out that >> and I think it also because it does I mean there's there's caveats in here that provide flexibility for you know different means but when it comes to like commercial redevelopment or

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subdivisions to be thinking about the different modes so I know that even you know recently we had a site plan review for Taco Bell and you know we did provide comments about providing sidewalks and a crossing and you know that seems to be favorable as part of that piece. So it just you know it's

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important to be thinking about all the measures. >> So if I understand Amanda this this this is an important document. It's important to have a policy kind of codified for the town of Yarmouth. Most towns have but it's mostly about being able to say

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yeah I have this and I can apply for state money. >> Yeah. Just similar to the storm water project from the last agenda, our goal is to pursue every you know grant that we can for our projects even if we are already you know doing it. >> Thank you.

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>> So what kind of a motion do we need to? Do we need a motion? We do not need this at all. >> We need just a consensus that we're that I think as Kathy and I discussed earlier that the planning board is in support of this. But I do think the letter from us

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supporting it officially to the select board can come in July. Um and you don't need to come back. Um but we would like to see any changes that you see u in the policy um that you you you've received from the public. Um and then we'll

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reconsider it and we'll put together a support note at that point. >> Could I just ask one other question? >> Um >> All right. Who could help us fund or who could help us with the prioritization plan? >> The Cape Cod Commission. They do them for all the time.

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>> So, this is a case where we do this. We can help. The commission will help us develop that plan. >> The commission will Yeah. >> Okay. >> Correct. Yeah. >> So, there's a bunch of domino There's a bunch of dominoes. Yeah. >> There's a bunch of part of their work, not your work. >> Yeah. You'd have to put in a request for their UPWP and that would get approved

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and they would help with that. Yeah. And it's been really great because they they had vision zero. Um and so we've been compiling all the public feedback that we've gotten to see if there's any like lowhanging fruit that we can do that isn't like a major overhaul. Um but they they've already gotten a lot of the good

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feedback. So this will be, you know, even more important to then be targeting just >> Okay. Uh any other questions or comments for Amanda? Thank you so much for coming. >> Thank you. >> Really appreciate it.

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Next on our agenda is the Habitat for Humanity project. Um in our packets tonight, uh Kathy has provided a draft memo of support to the zoning board of appeals. Um the community housing committee June 10th support memo, a

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project narrative. I think Kathy's um the waiverss Kathy I didn't print them out at home. Do we have the additional >> Yes, you have them on your that right there. >> It's this right there. Okay. >> Thank you. Um and uh some excerpts from

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the architectural and site plans with some So what what we're what we're what we'd like to do um is prepare a support memo to the select board for this. Is it >> zoning board of appeals? zoning board of appeals. Sorry. Um uh with any edits and

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and changes uh from Kathy's notes here. I I had Cath when Kathy and I talked this morning or this afternoon, I had a couple of them, but I'm I'm like to engage the board in any other comments they might have. Um Dearra, you're on the committee, so uh tell us more.

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Well, we did discuss it at great length at the last meeting and um I think Kathy's really covered it very well here, so I don't have a lot to I really don't have much else to say. Um it just looks really good. It they've got they

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seem to have very good control of the parking and traffic and uh everything seems well planned from what we saw at the housing meeting. Um, I did bring I have maybe extra pictures

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that I brought from that meeting, but I don't think they're necessary. You you know they because you've got them all in here. >> The architecture is is very good. >> Very nice. >> And they did make some tweaks because um some of the um orientations weren't towards the street where the front face

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would have been towards the street, but they moved them in order to allow for the potential solar capture. So they put a little bit of embellishments on the end that would be facing the street. Not a lot would add a lot of cost, but the little details that make it reuse the front. So they did they've been very cooperative and they they really have a

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nice mix of different sizes, different styles >> and uh and everything just seems to fit together and >> everybody says they are so great to work with and they've done so well in the past.

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So thank you, Miss Just a couple of factual questions. What is the goal of the housing protection plan? I know that changes slightly annually. Is what is the raw number that we're supposed to >> annually? It's 62 units. >> A year. >> A year?

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>> Yeah. >> So, is there 62 units? We're supposed to do 62 units every single year. >> Yes. >> Until we get to the 10%, >> right? >> 10% of the total. >> Once we reach the 10%. >> Okay. All right,

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>> we're out of the 40bs. >> Do we Does anyone know how close we are to the 10% at this point? >> We're about halfway there. We're about halfway there. >> I thought we were much further along. >> No, we're five to six%. [clears throat] >> What's the rest of the am That's what I >> Five to six%. >> Yes, we're f We're not six, we're five.

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>> Five. Yeah. >> And does anyone know where we stand vis the rest of the Cape? >> I always thought we had a very good number. I mean, does a phenomenal job as you know. I always thought we did we had a very good number.

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>> Um, Orleans is probably at the top. I have a feeling we have so many housing units. >> So to get to 10% of all of our housing units is >> and this does not include federal subsidy, does it? This doesn't include section 8 at all. This is just state

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grants. >> Well, as I dear, you would know, but section 8 is portable. >> I don't think it does. >> You carry it. You carry it to the place where you go to. >> Right. Right. It's not >> It's not the physical building. Correct. So, it's not in the count. >> Right. That's what I thought. Okay. So, it's a permit that someone carries with

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them. It's not attached to an address. >> Exactly. >> Okay. Exactly. >> Okay. And then the square footage. I could not find the square footage for each one of these units. Did I miss that on the chart? How big is a one-bedroom? How many square feet? I could not find

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it. >> I don't know. It's not on here. >> I couldn't find it because I'm always lousy reading these things. Let's see if >> there's lots area but it doesn't show the square footage of the units. Could we

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>> I think at some point it should be included somewhere. Maybe not necessarily in our memo, but we should know what >> maybe it's in DeRus packet from her committee. >> If we if we do the math, it's >> I'll do some math out real quick. Madam Chair, I'm looking at lot size. >> Yep. Yes, the lot size, but not the

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size. All of the minimums. >> Oh, yeah. But I I think it's more >> just in your mind. What the size of the house is helps in relation not just to the lot. >> I'm sorry. 28. >> 728. >> One bedroom is 728.

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>> That number. >> And what Mark, do you have a twobedroom? >> That is the two bed. >> That is the two bedroom. >> No, that's a one bedroom. >> A one bedroom. >> So, should we just multiply times 720? Do we just double and triple? >> I don't think so. >> Okay. I was getting I was just trying to make it easy, Susan.

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>> That's the whole building. We're just looking at bedrooms. >> The two bedroom has got to be a thousand square feet. Mark, right? Wouldn't you think? >> Yeah. But the the one bedroom we know is if you do the 28 by 28, it's >> okay. If Mary probably knows.

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>> Oh, Mary knows. >> Yeah. If someone could just get that so that we have some because I'd like to I'm always visualizing an ADU and comparing it to an ADU. >> Um, you know, we sort of know what an ADU sizes. This would be bigger than an ADU, obviously.

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>> Oh, yeah. >> Two bedroom is a 10,080 square feet. >> Yeah. 1080. >> 8080. >> And can you quickly do threes? >> Getting there. Trying to read this is >> very small. [laughter]

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Is there one threebedroom on this? There is one three bedroom. >> There's two, I believe. >> Two three bedrooms >> on the right side. >> Two bedrooms >> on the on the northeast. >> Oh, that's right. Yep, I see it. I >> mean, it's an awesome >> three bedroom is 1320. >> 1320. Okay, great.

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>> I did take off. Yeah, I did. >> His first rodeo, [laughter] not his first rodeo. >> That helps. >> Sleep on the porch. I mean, they're re they're reasonable sizes. >> Oh, yeah. Wonderful. It's it's a wonderful project. It looks great. >> That is fantastic.

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>> Um, and they're, you know, they're a quality operator. >> The right spot for them. It's [snorts] >> Madam Chair, can I mention a couple things? First of all, it's just, it is incredible when you think about that parcel, what they've been able to do. And I it's like, wow. Because every time

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I drive by there, I'm like, how are they going to do this? >> And they're doing it. And so I know it's been through a whole process and Dedra, you've been in way more of the details than we have and it just it's a credit to everybody who's had to work together to make this work. And yes, we'll get to the waiverss in a minute. The other

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thing I want to point out that I'm it just tickles me because I think it's nice for our friends at the zoning board is that every house comes with a shed. And given all of the stuff that the zoning board has to deal with, here are six new houses that will never have to

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come to them for a shed for a shed hearing. And it's like this is but but it makes me just realize that to the extent that other projects can can somehow consider the idea of anticipating kinds of things not just for more importantly for the folks that actually are going to live and work and

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raise a family there potentially or not. Um, but it's also some of the things like having to then go to the zoning board six months after they get this wonderful home because they hadn't thought it through. But here's here's an example of a project that's being very

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well thought out and hopefully will also benefit our friends at the zoning board by having six less appearances. You're welcome. So, I would say thanks to Habitat for doing that. And it's it's it's neat and it's something that maybe other developers will think about going forward, but they also have different

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motivations. So, we'll leave that for another discussion. >> Storage is always a big component of the community housing committee, and I know Mary is always on on top of that. >> These will be fe simple >> ownership. Yep. >> To buy that lot.

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>> So, they'll be responsible for the maintenance and the upkeep of the lot, the whole Okay. Any any comments? Kathy has prepared this draft memo from us to the zoning board of appeals. Um, and

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their meeting, I believe, is on the 25th, Kathy, if I correct. So, we want to fi try to finalize this tonight. Uh, I've I've given Kathy some uh preliminary comments, but any other comments from the board or edits?

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>> I think it was very well done. >> Great. Thanks. Yeah. Okay. I'll just share with you my one comment would be to drop the final bullet and just have it be part of a final paragraph that would say for these reasons above the

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planning board supports the waiverss uh being requested. Period. >> Period. Just >> thank you for the opportunity for the planning board >> that if that works for everybody. >> Well, Madam Chair, do you do you anticipate you and Kathy as you were thinking about this and maybe Mark can

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help us. Do you anticipate any push back? >> No. >> On this? >> No. >> Okay. >> Absolutely not. >> But obviously they have to list it out and document it all because that's part of the >> Yeah. >> Well, right now there's a lot of waiverss. There's a lot of >> W. No, I know. That's why I meant given the number, but it's all in the context

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of all the other pieces that have already been done. Okay. >> I what why I why I >> Kathy and I talked today uh why I suggested that we strike are reasonable and in line with many of our existing risk. there's going to be someone out there who could say I don't I don't

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agree with that. >> So, and I think but I think from our perspective >> these uh waiverss being requested are are we're in support of them. >> Period. End of story. >> Yes. I I like your suggestion, Madam Chair.

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>> Uh so Kathy and I will work on the final memo uh and we'll get it to the zoning board. >> Would that make that change? >> Would that change? Is that if that's >> we have a consensus on that? Yes. >> So, I'll make it and I'll send it to Dolores to I can send it out to everybody just so you'll have the final.

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>> That sounds great. Thank you, Kath. >> So, you don't need a motion on that at all to >> We don't need a motion on this, Kath. If I recall, no motion. >> Um, next on our agenda this evening, uh, Kathy and I attended the community and economic development committee meeting

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on Monday, uh, where Kathy had prepared, uh, a request for consulting planning services. like to turn it over to Kathy to go through that. Uh again, this is in conjunction with the uh the grant, if

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you will, that we received from the Affordable Housing Trust. We're going to couple that with the CEDC um to get a consultant in place to help us move forward with uh some of the work we have to do in the local comprehensive plan. So, Kath, I'll turn it over to

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you. >> Sure. Um, as Joanne mentioned, I mean, we got the $50,000 from CEDC. They're very kind to us. Um, we also got the 25,000 reallocated from the affordable housing trust and then we had about $19,300 left over um from just previous

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allocations and we were able to use um some of the community planning grant towards the LCP. So, we kind of were able to hoard some of that money. So, that gives us about $94,300. So, about $90,000 we like to always keep a little bit squirreled away in case we come up with a good idea we would like to do an

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amendment on um about $90,000 to hire a consultant. Um a lot of the stuff that's in here uh at the beginning is like the the purpose, the goals and objectives and the community information. Those are kind of the things that we always have to include within a request for proposal, but the meat of it really is

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the um the technical scope of work that's on the third page. And maybe we can kind of go through that a little bit. Um, obviously the first task is always, you know, the meetings, the public engagement, all of that coordination, project management. So, we have the kickoff meeting. Um, I put in

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here having three in-person community meetings. I'm not sure whether I kind of went back forth between two and three, so I don't know how you guys might feel about that u to garner uh input on the proposed amendments. We're going to be meeting all the time on these proposed amendments, but this would be like more of a formal, you know, get the word out,

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a lot of publicity for people to come. We would be presenting uh ideas. So I think we would certainly at least need two but I threw in three. Um also facilitating we had that great stakeholder meeting with developers um as part of the mixed use maybe also

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having as we get further along maybe reconstituting some of those people and kind of show them the ideas that we've come up with and get some of their input. Um, and then the the obviously the meeting with you guys as needed and and maybe I've also said maybe we might want to get input from some other boards

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and committees like the design review committee, maybe community economic development committee might have some ideas. Um, the zoning board of appeals. So, we estimated some three remote meetings for that and then just the general coordination with staff uh that goes on in preparation for all of our meetings that that we then have. So, I

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don't know if you want to go through task by task or whether Susan said no. [laughter] >> Is that a suggestion or a declaration? [laughter] >> That's a declaration. >> Only only because most of these things we've talked about. I just have one

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question, Kathy. Uh when when we did have that stakeholder meeting, there was a lot of conversation about maybe we have too many VCODs and consolidating some of those. Can we get to that discussion with this statement of work? I think we can. >> I don't think it's going to be through that stakeholder meeting. I think it's going to be as part of the discussions

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related to task five >> which is the zoning bylaw amendment. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> That's fine. >> So, so task two is just the resource document reviewing all of that. Great. And I have a list and links to all of the resource documents that we finding a um >> because I thought that was a good

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suggestion. >> Yeah. Look at Yeah, they they always do, but I want to make sure that that you get in there. Don't just glance at it. Um and then also I thought the benchmarking was very good um with regard to the mixed use and maybe we could do something similar with design

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standards investigating what other communities are doing kind of presenting it to us and see if it's in a format that um we're we're interested in doing and then that helps feed into the nest task which isn't really nine I don't know what that >> I was going to ask what is the mysterious task three and do we get to see this the secret

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>> yeah I don't >> the secret memo that has task three in it >> task three is nine >> no no it's it's a little my number I kept moving them around It's like when the word in in Word when they keeps auto formatting. >> I did move them around quite a bit and so I just I just uh Oh, I did eliminate

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the marketing thing. >> Yeah, we'll talk about that in a minute. Um, >> so the design standards obviously we've always been talking about that we have the architectural site design standards. They're very, in my opinion, not necessarily applicable to most of the things that we're doing and maybe making

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them um a little bit more applicable. The goal is to actually have a product at the end with illustrations and graphics that we could adopt and if it's it lives outside the zoning bylaw. So that's something that we could uh adopt through a public hearing, the architectural site design standards and

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then also looking at the PCOD design standards. We had talked about that before and kind of meshing them together a little bit better and maybe not making them quite so difficult to understand. Mark and I kind of pull our hair out a little bit trying to make sure that someone's in compliance and if we're doing that then they're also doing it

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trying to ensure that they're being in compliance. So um making that a little bit easier. Um task five4 um zoning bylaw amendments. That's where we're going to really get into all of those recommendations. I mean BSC group and

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Horsesley Whitten went through quite a bit of detail of our of our overlay districts and had some very specific recommendations on things that they thought might help us to promote mixed use. And I think we just need to dive into those have a matrix, you know, a whole spreadsheet of all of our existing

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overlay districts, what's allowed, and then what we're kind of proposing and and maybe making them mesh up a little bit more so it's not quite so different in each um each VCOD. and maybe even looking at you know the vi the different villages um at that time. Um then task

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the last task there uh is actually task five design review and site plan review processes. So now that we got the design standards and we've got everything in place, you know, we also want to make sure that we have clear design review process and we also have clear site plan review process. We've talked about the mass winds in the economic bond bill

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changing what site plan review is. I don't think it's going to mesh with what's in our bylaw now. So maybe having somebody come and help us mesh all of those things together um so our that our processes are all in line. Um and then also streamlining our our permitting uh

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of trying to make it less having to go to less boards, less committees and making it simpler and easier for people. >> Kathy, I know that the chamber a couple of years ago did a big not a big study, but they had a lot long conversation about the permitting process and trying to streamline it. So they may have some

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good suggestions or good material that the consultants would want to take a look at. >> I think there's there's some things that people want to streamline are we're not streamlining the building code. >> No, [laughter] >> we're not streamlining conservation commission. You know what? But yeah, I think there's some obvious things that

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we can streamline in our zoning and land use process to make things easier. You know, if you guys are being the design uh design review authority, do they need to go to the design review committee? Correct. No. you know, so so thinking about all of those things and and just making it it simpler and making it

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consistent. The VCOD, they come to me for site plan review and design review versus just going to design review for me and then site plan review tomorrow. So, it's just like it's a different process, different forms and people like what am I doing? It's very confusing. >> Yes, it is. And it's difficult to administer on on our level as well. So,

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let's see what we can do to to streamline that. Um, one thing I did mention to to Joanne, uh, is, you know, if we go out with this proposal for $90,000 and we're not maybe not getting a lot of bites, uh, it might be indicated that we're asking too much for

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too little money. So task number seven might be something we could pull out and we could work on ourselves >> versus being something that a consultant I think would be helpful. Just having someone completely immersed just like us in all of these things. They're very, very closely tied together. All of them.

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Um, and then just the last the summary is actually having a we want a document at the end that you clearly are providing us with all the recommendations and then giving that final presentation um to to the planning board. The one thing that we had talked about a little bit uh in CEDC was

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looking at different uses on Route 28, things that might promote more economic development opportunities. Um but there's going to be that market study. We talking about it for a long time, but it's never quite gotten legs. I think with with Megan here and the new CEDC being reconstituted, I think that's going to happen. And let's wait and see

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what that says and then we can kind of look at at what we need to do and potentially look at um for for changes in the use table. There's some things about um residential that we could also look at individually. I know that when the Cape Cod Commission did their

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housing strategies, one of the things was do you really need to have double the minimum lot size in order to have a duplex? So like in if you have a 40,000 square foot lot, do you really need to have an 80,000 square foot lot? These are things that we could talk about amongst ourselves and don't necessarily

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have to be in there, but I think that we would be heavily involved in the market study that's being done. CEDC and plan kind of work together. So what I'm hoping is if I'm not way off, [laughter] I know that Joanne had a couple edits that she was going to provide. Um I'd like to get this to

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procurement and then they can start wrapping it up into an actual RFP and we can go out for proposals. is the timing on this, Kathy? When when uh when are they going to make the decision? >> Well, we need to get the RFP out. So then that's going to take, you know, it's going to take a minimum of three

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months, probably four months before we could consider having a consult until the end of the summer. >> You got to evaluate it. We probably would want someone from the planning board to be on the evaluation team, >> at least one, maybe two. Um but we I expect it to take about 12 months to do it. The problem is timing wise. You

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know, some of like I say, some of these things are can be done outside of town meeting, but there's going to be some things that need that will be included in town meeting. So, we may have be ready to do some things in the fall of of 2027, but we might have to wait and do some things in the spring of 2028 in order to

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>> to get us all there. Um, but there's there's certainly some things that I think um we could get to by next fall that would be meaningful. And again, even if they're outside of the town meeting. Can I ask a far-reaching question? Will I would assume some of the things

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or some of the recommendations we take may be applicable to Madakis once it's developed? No. Yes. >> A whole another zoning review that's part of the next phase. >> Okay. >> So that's your guys are going to be

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working on too. [laughter] >> Thank you. >> Yeah. BSC group is actually continuing. They they mass development has kind of like their house doctors or whatever for different designers or whatever and so they are already approved by them and they have their scope of services. So

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they're going to be looking at >> different zoning. It's going to be an overlay district, you know. Um but there's certainly some ideas for that, but that's also something that we're probably going to need to be looking at and thinking about when we're going to be needing to look at zoning on that. that's going to be a little bit more challenging because when we're pro we're

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talking to people about zoning amendments, we're also talking to people about certain projects. >> So you kind of like have to explain to people the benefit of the project in order to understand the benefit of the zoning >> changing the zoning, right? >> So we we might be a little bit more in

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the forefront of that of that. >> Okay. >> As it moves forward. >> Madam Chair, >> yes, >> I have comment and a question. I think having written and read hundreds of these over the years. It's well written. It's concise. It's good. My only

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question is the first paragraph under the scope kind of gives them an open envelope to kind of say, I want to do this change and that change and then you go back and it's $90,000 and they once you start making changes, money occurs.

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And I'm wondering should this be a not to exceed amount? >> You know what I mean? The way we do it is um we review the technical proposal first and then we identify the quality of them right whether they're highly advantageous advantageous and we rank

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them. >> So this so then my question would be these are changes are made in their proposal and not after the fact. Correct. Okay. >> Yes. >> And then their cost proposal would >> would have to coincide with the amount. Okay. >> Well well technically you know if you

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have two people who are exactly equal in your that it goes to the lowest, right? >> Goes to the lowest price. Okay. >> Yeah, it does. Um, but if you, you know, some lots of times you may, this person's just so good that, yeah, they maybe want an extra $5,000 or whatever,

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but we can justify that. Yeah, I think they're the better choice. Better value. >> Yeah, better value. So, yeah. So, there's a whole process and that's part of the review and probably would have interviews and that type of thing. >> Yeah. >> Are we going to have somebody on the review team? Yeah, I [laughter]

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>> It sounds like you just volunteered. >> I would like to volunteer >> and it's not me. >> That's his volunte. >> We will have at least one, if not two members of the planning board. We don't want to have quorum >> sadistic. You know, [laughter] >> it's interesting. It's to see how

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different people approach things, >> especially if it's best value. >> Madam, >> I have a question. >> Comments? Yeah, >> you want to go? >> No, I'm good. >> Okay. I just have a quick question and maybe this could since Mark is here we could ask him but given the timelines so we're looking at fall 27 at the earliest

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in terms of any town meeting and certainly spring of 28 and you've got you know and that's practically tomorrow because that's practically when the sewer is going to come online which is in 29. So, anybody that wants to try to prepare some sort of awesome project

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with phase one of the sewer system up and running, you know, this may not this may not be great. It's certainly the best we're going to be able to do given the constraints that we have. So, my question is, is there any are there any little teeny tiny improvements that we

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can make that are way quicker than this timeline on like sort of a parallel universe where maybe is there a way that let me say it a different way. Is there any way that Mark and Kathy can have a meeting and come to us in in let's say 60 or 90 days and say we'd like to make

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these administrative changes while this process is going on. It's not going to disturb the process that we're putting in place on this let's say 12 to 16 months TAC but it would make your lives better and easier in the meantime and it doesn't require any town meeting work or

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could we do something at the fall town meeting and you know I know that's practically tomorrow also. Okay, Kathy says no, but I'm just Okay, so let's so let me just erase the concept of town meeting. Aren't there things that we can do administratively or at least through us that would make your life >> public hearings? You could do stuff

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>> that's going to make your life easier having more public hearings. >> Oh, no, no. We can make the changes via public hearings. >> Oh, sorry. I was like, >> no, no, no. That that's the operational standards, the planning board operational standards. That's where the rules and regs and the process for VCOD sits.

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>> Okay. Right. So in other words, if but we don't want to get that lost in this because if it does then you're not going to be we're not going to be able to do anything to make your lives better for for another 18 months. So I would just say politely because we as you know we care a lot about the two of you and all

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the other nice people that support the work that you do in you know in concert. But if there are things that we can do, let's say in the fall even of this year where you've come to us and said, "Madam chair, let's have a public hearing in October so we can do this memo full of

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stuff." I would be in favor of that. But again, it's your workloads, not ours. But I would just hate for us to go 18 months on stuff that maybe >> if it could help you, we could help you sooner. That's it. And if you don't want that, of course, you also have to say

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that also takes work, too, which I respect. But the consultants obviously being hired to do a lot of the work. I just want to know the work that you guys can do with us sooner so that we can get some stuff. >> I think it's the streamlining of the permitting. >> I think it's the streamlining of the permitting

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>> and it's those dis I mean that that just for the BCOD, like I say, that sits in your operational regulations. So that could be fixed a little bit through a public hearing. Um, >> and that's done in con a little bit in concert even with this work. In other

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words, they're going to know about it and be part be aware of it, but it's not going to necessarily mess anything up. >> The only other thing that might be smaller changes, but might have repercussions um as far as town meeting would be, you know, who's the special permit granting authority,

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you know, because right now sometimes the road bylaw you have to go two places. I think it it's appropriate that it stays two places. she comes to you guys for the pretty and it goes to the ZBA for the special permit because you're asking for a lot of changes to our zoning I think it's reasonable to

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have to go to to two people but um just like the HM mod if somebody comes to you needs it comes to you guys if people need a special permit relief um and I know Mark and I kind of disagree a little bit about this but is that the same thing if you're coming already to

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you guys for BCOD site plan review if they need a special permit relief could that be done via you guys. So people don't have to come to you guys for site plan review and then walk trot over here just like 811 did those eight town houses and then have to go over to >> the zoning board of appeals and and and

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get you could have that concurrent in one in one meeting. >> So there is nice sometimes there's nice separations you guys decide the plans you're the visionaries and then the the ZBA kind of implements them. Um, but there might be some things like that

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that would require obviously town meeting >> approval change. But that's the only other thing but an easier thing to do um than than some of the other things that we're talking about. >> Well, I hope you'll consider what what I'm saying and if there are things that we can do as soon as this fall that

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don't involve town meeting, but that involve a public hearing that could benefit the two of you as well as the other department heads and other town staff, then I'm in all favor of. Thank you, Madam Chair. So, so Kathy, you mentioned the operational standards. That that's kind

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of our code of how we operate, right? >> And those changes do not need to go to town meeting, do they? It's a public hearing. It's just a simple public hearing. >> So maybe there are some things in there where the handoffs or the just the BCOD that for some reason got tucked into

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your operational standards. I think because they're so detailed. I mean, there's the there's the checklist and and then there's the application form >> and the operational standards. >> Yes. >> Yep. >> Um, so I guess we're asking you to maybe take a look

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>> um and if there are things that we can, you know, lowhanging fruit, so to speak, that we can move forward on um because the the sewer is coming and, you know, we've already got projects in the in the works that we know are going to be very

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beneficial to us. So the sooner we can start to ease the process for developers, I think the the better. >> Um, very good suggestion. >> The only other thing maybe for fall town meeting is is continuing that conversation that we had with regard to the maximum front yard setbacks.

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>> Um, once you get into like VC4, it's like 80 once you get to the 80 foot wide, I don't think we should change the minimum maximums because Old Main Street eastward, the Mass DOT layout is 80 feet wide. they're fine. They're not going to have any trouble. That's why I think

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when a lot of people look at um the JMAT, to me that doesn't look that close. It looks very kind of typical to some of the other things, the 15 to 25 that we've had, but it's because they have an 80 foot wide rightway. So, their setback's not that much onto their property, but it's that much further

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from the edge of the roadway. So, further along. >> So, that might be something, and I know that we talked a little bit, I think Mary Vilbomb brought it up at the CEDC meeting on Monday. Uh that might be something we want to talk about a little bit of language. What those exact numbers are, it's really hard to know because we do not have a designer on

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board for east of Parker's River. We just know what's west of Parker's River. We know that the section is going to look the same. So we can get some ideas. Uh and it does look like it's hitting the south side more than it's take taking from the north side. So is there a difference between those? You know, so

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that's those are a lot of conversations to have, but that might be something that might help people especially in the BCOD. Uh, any other comments on the scope of work? Kathy wanted to hear from us in terms of uh Kathy, I I'd like to leave in task seven because I think that's an

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important one. Uh, because that's kind of where the rubber meets the road here for us. If they can they can submit a proposal and give us some concrete suggestions, I think that would be helpful. But then again that might be

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if we have to pull that out then we have to go back through the process. >> I understand that. No, I think what what I would find is like if people aren't interested, we put out proposal. The first time we put out the proposal, the RFP for the LCP, we got nothing. Nothing. Nobody.

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>> And then we went back and we we took a bunch of stuff out. Yeah. And we made some changes of not you didn't have to do a a master plan. You just had to be involved in master planning projects and that's when we ended up getting getting two people. So that's what I mean by not getting anything.

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But the but the VCOD site plan review process would be something that we're talking about doing earlier rather than later. Um, and I I just had a a couple of editorial comments uh that I I'll give to Kathy and it had to do with uh

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task four number three or number three task four. I was suggesting that the consultant develop revisions to the architectural and site design standards and the VCOD design standards to modernize them.

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Period. This includes but is not limited to >> continue continue. And then the final sentence um uh the outcome of this process will provide an updated

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architectural design standards and I'll give these to you Kathy. Um, but I I also I wanted to work in some language to because Mark is here that we also want this to benefit and facilitate less work for town staff, you know, to

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make it easier for you guys. Um, however we can facilitate the review process so there are fewer steps that you have to go through, um, uh, I think is going to be important. Um, and I'd like to have that, you know, as part of the proposal.

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Um, so it's not just, uh, for the document, but it's really for your workflow. >> Any other any other comments on this? >> No. Good. >> Okay. So, I'll give you my my notes, Kath.

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We don't need a vote on that. That's just consensus. Uh, short-term rentals. Kathy has a draft uh number three if you want to run through that with us. And Mark is here. >> Thank you, building commissioner.

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Um so there's not a there's not a lot of changes. I did send um an in this draft and an inquiry to town council. In all fairness, I didn't get that to him till Monday morning. So I've not heard back. Um, but I think we're at the point now where we really need to get their input

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u before we move much much further along. The the changes that you're seeing here um under definitions was just we had talked about marital unit and we just I looked it up googled it and in Massachusetts it's just spouses. Um so that's that edit there and then uh

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will asked about hours a day. So that minor change had been added. On the next page, I took the definition for time share fractional in interval ownership units. This is directly from Ptown. I kind of like the way they had it laid out more. So they have same information. It was just slightly laid out a little

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bit different. Um and and some attorney had worked on this for sure. >> Oh yeah, for sure. >> Oh boy. >> Attorneys worked on it with other attorneys for sure. >> So let's not let's not worry our council

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women. >> Um, and then under ineligible units, I mean, there was a request of what was the definition of an apartment access protectedness as defined in the zoning bylaw. Um, I did make I did ask the question um to town council whether um

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it's okay to prohibit short-term rentals on properties that have an ADU or protected ADU. I think you can, but it's I don't know whether it gets into steps on ad use um regulation feet, but I don't think so. Um number four, I didn't add this in, but if you'll notice in the

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use table, I had taken out having allowing for um short-term rentals in the MOD, which is the medical overlay district, and then also the municipal um land. The municipal land is where the wastewater treatment facility is being located. That's it. We're not going to

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have short-term rentals there. We're also not gonna want or want to promote >> like to watch the documentary about it. [laughter] So, let's see what we can do. >> Be a whole new type of tourism. >> Yeah, [laughter] you could argue ecoourism. >> Ecoourism would argue it.

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>> Um, so I would just add those into the BCOD road HM. I know we had talked a lot about 703, which is the duplexes next to Parker's River. >> They can't do it anyway. Our use table says short-term rentals are not allowed in the VCOD, >> right? So, we already had it in there now and I'm just I didn't think about

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it. And then now this is just like hammering it home in addition to including the road um over the district. Road is just B1, B2, B3 um over that. So, the conservation instead of environmental change was made. Um

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just a little clarifications with regard to the overnight occupancy limitations shall be set. >> Jeffy, where are you now? Which at the bottom of page under overnight which is highlighted. >> I think I just put in overnight instead

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of occupancy that'll be used um changes there. I highlighted readily visible from exterior of the dwelling. I want to see it readily visible from the exterior dwelling. I had a question as to whether the chapter 108 requires it to be on the interior dwelling. So I just have to to look at that a little

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bit more closely. Um, one of the things that in some of the other bylaws was this is all about registration of rent of short-term rentals. Some of them had licensing. So, I just asked town council whether there was any benefits to licensing. I don't think so, but I just I didn't know why

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other communities were interested. >> There's a cost on both sides of the table. >> So, that that was just a question to to town council. Um, and then with the parking, we just rewarded it. I highlighted 11 because I don't know if that's too early.

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Um, just no overnight street parking from 11:00 a.m. to 7 a.m. to help eliminate that second sentence. I think Will had that comment. >> It would just Yeah, I think it reads more direct. It does read. It's just very simple. >> Much better. But the 11 is is highlighted because I don't know. It's a

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it's a question mark and maybe that's something that we ask when we start getting some more public input. um whether that's too early >> for folks that live on those streets will have >> 11 to seven is the quiet >> quiet hours. >> So um

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>> maximum yes [snorts] the next one occupancy was also a clarification thing maximum overnight occupancy from 11 to say at 7 a.m. >> Shall be the It does. >> Did you give me the dent? You gave me

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the dented one again. [laughter] >> The dented one. You have to eat the mic. That's why I don't like it. >> Um, >> he can hear you. That helps. Okay. That doesn't help people at home. >> It was clarifying what no other time. So, it was like the maximum overnight occupancy from 11 to 7:00 a.m. shall be

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the occupancy limit set by the building department at no other time during the use of the property. I think this is a comment that Will had to clarify what those times were. >> Um, and then the next things has to do with the

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Maybe we're done. [laughter] >> Oh, thank you. >> Oh, no. >> All right. I don't know what's going on. Um, the other thing had to do with penalties and enforcement, and that's one thing that I sent all of that to town council trying to get, you know, his input. Right now it's listed as um

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being enforced by you know I had a question about enforcability by health and building department supported by the police department and then also I modified um number four the suspension rev revocation non-renewal of certificates um the two is highlighted because I don't know if that's the right

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number either but I basically indicated up to two years as determined by the building commissioner and the applicants may appeal this determination to the select board. Do we have to have an appeal process? >> I think you were going to have trouble if we don't give anybody. It puts him in a bad position,

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>> right? Because if he's making a determination and nobody likes it, then he's getting beat up. No, no, don't beat him up. Take it to the select. I don't think you're going to get anybody going to the select board. >> People have a right to appeal. >> Yeah. >> No matter what. >> Seems seems reasonable.

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>> Agree with it or not, they have a right to appeal. >> So I asked, you know, this >> they have a right to appeal administrative decision. That's true, >> right? not a legal decision. Okay. >> It's not in the this isn't going to be in the zoning bylaw anymore. Normally, his decision is always can can appeal it to the ZBA, >> right?

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>> Uh but this is going to be in a general bylaw. So, it needs to be identify who who would be doing that appeal. So, I did have questions um to that to town council about that in particular. And then the effective date, you know, making sure that we could make it the date of the special town meeting followed by approval. I just want to

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make sure there's not going to be any gaps that's going to cause any problems for us. And I also gave him an overview of what we had talked about of the different type the three articles that we might be looking at, you know, with article one to adopt this new general bylaw, article two to amend the zoning

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bylaw if the general bylaw passes, but it would be withdrawn if it fails, and then we'd have this this third one that would just extend the sunset clause if the general bylaw doesn't pass. And we'll withdraw it if it does. um just to make sure that we if if people aren't happy with us, at least we can maybe

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extend the sunset clause and get a little bit more time. >> Hopefully they approve the general bylaw and approve the changes and and we're all good to go. Um the the sunset clause I still um had that question you guys had had originally to that to town council about could we extend just

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extend it for a longer period of time. I think it's a little moot now that we're talking about going with a general perm general bylaw instead, but I I did want to get that answer for you. Um, and then I did just ask for some clarifying questions on the benefits of the general bylaw versus zoning bylaw just to make

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sure I'm giving you the correct information. I think this is what is correct is that um the general bylaw majority vote and no grandfathering. And I specifically asked him, so if we have in our general bylaw that you can't register more than two as an owner and then five years down the line, we're like, no, that's too much. We want to go

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down to one. We have not created any grandfathering for the two. So that was the direct question to town council. I think that's a good example of showing what something we might want to change. But I think if if it's all in the general bylaw and we can change it and it's not creating grandfathering, I think the sunset clause is a little bit of a >> moot point. And that's just majority

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vote, right, Keith? >> The general bylaw. Correct. Yeah. Versus twothirds for zoning unless it's only housing and then it's majority. >> So that's that's that. Okay. >> Can I ask a quick question? Besides the

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fact that some people just like to be oppositional, uh what can you imagine would be significant push back at a special at any town meeting that would potentially jeopardize this majority vote? What what I'm just I think it's

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worth thinking about, you know, as we're and maybe Madam Chair, I'll withdraw the question and we'll wait for the public hearing. Maybe that makes more sense. >> Um >> I I guess you know what I I'll withdraw. It's okay. I'll withdraw the question because >> I I we don't know yet and I think it's

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uh um >> it puts Kathy in a difficult position. Correct. She doesn't >> So I apologize. I will wait to hear the public comment as to why this is not a good idea. Thank I think how we presented at the public hearing is going to and at town meeting makes makes some good sense. I mean obviously we went

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through the short-term rentals. We kind of gleamed what we thought was what came out of that study and it really had to do with um protecting year-round housing and then we can show what changes we're making in order to promote that. You know reducing the commercialization we can show what proposed changes is doing that. Addressing neighborhood quality of

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life issues. We can show the changes that we're making there. and then minimizing grandfathering. And that's why we had the sunset clause to begin with. Now we're going with the general. >> And the last one would be, and I think Susan certainly was consistent on this, as were many others, and because Mark is here, is the enforcement is, you know,

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we're not >> we're not making it worse, hopefully, >> but there's still an enforcement mechanism that can be actually carried out. Yeah, I think a lot of those are the things that um Joanne and I were talking about that today and I think

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we've talked about at other planning board meetings is things that can happen outside of the bylaws like developing that process for issuing a complaint including the short-term rentals on the town website so people know the contact information. You know, maybe think consider having that one page be a good

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neighbor so that that gets posted on all rentals like on the fridge so people know. um because I think most people probably are good because it's their property and they want to make sure that people are being good neighbors so they don't get complaints, but there's some people who don't care. So something along those lions

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we can ask on the application to get us the information that we might need. Um >> the occupancy I would argue is something that most people who are going to do a short-term rental aren't necessarily going to know unless like you said you have some nice summary that's on No. Right. that that is very clear like oh

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we can only have up to eight people here we can't have the ginormous house party now that >> that's why they say the rental certificate needs to be visible from the inside so that the renters know >> that's like you know but I think the thing that may engender a lot of conversation is

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that huge paragraph in yellow about you know interval >> we're going to let time share fraction answer that question [laughter] this is this is This is a lawyer's delight. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I didn't put out any of your name plates this whole night.

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>> You're a nameless nameless formless board. >> I'm nameless, too. I'm just a >> hopefully the nice gentleman back there hasn't been putting our names up every time we talk. >> Sorry about that. >> Um I I have just a a one question, Kathy, in terms of the gray and the

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yellow and the red. Mhm. >> Um the very last provision for 1810. Um I'm I'm I'm presuming that we want that to go away. >> Correct. >> Okay.

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>> We want that to be deleted. >> I just want to make that that clear. Um any other comments from the questions from the board? Um we have a member of the public here who would like to join us. Please, if you could identify yourself and your uh your address.

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>> My name is Diane Daw. >> Um at the microphone, please. >> I think the microphone is working. We hope. >> I don't know. My name is Yep. My name is Diane Daw. Um I've been a homeowner on Webster Road in the Colonial Acres neighborhood for 30 years. I've lived

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across the street from a sixbedroom, threebath rental. There have been problems. Um, I'm thank you for your attention to this and I'm I'm very grateful that you're really

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looking at it and listening to people and I know you've heard from Mr. Pallaya. I attended the last meeting via Zoom. I was lucky enough to be here this evening. Um, I know he's mentioned our concerns and he's the public voice of

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the group of neighbors in the Colonial Acres area. Uh the occupancy is a big issue and I've had 10 cars across the street from my home. I've had 17 people at one

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weekend. I've had 20 people another weekend. And I think if you can clarify the occupancy, is it two people per bedroom? Is it how many beds they can squeeze into the bedroom? and makes have some

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clarification on that because people are putting, you know, the queen below with the twin up above on both sides of the room and calling one bedroom six people. That's so that adds to the issue

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>> that it's it's it's not that the health department is done by title five is how they determine it's not based on the number of you know if you have a pull out couch or if you have four bunk beds it's not based on that. It's based essentially on the two people per bedroom which is title five and

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>> it's a sevenbedroom house not a six. >> That's where it gets a little complicated. >> Right. Really? >> Okay. >> So what's the math? Is that 14 or is that 28? >> 14. We're saying no more than 28. Sorry, Mark. >> Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt. Sorry. >> Building Commissioner Mark Grills.

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>> Madam Chair, members of the board, Mark Grills, building commissioner. Um, that house is a 14 person occupant load and that's for sleeping. >> They can have c they can have guests there. They and we can't do anything about that. But if they, you know, their hours if they're if they're making

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noise, the idea is to call the police for the for the noise complaint. >> And that has happened. I actually called that gentleman the very next Monday after I got notification and he seemed very bothered by the fact that there was that much noise happening at his house. >> We

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>> Yeah. Well, I can imagine why. Um he uh he he's there's actually new technology out there that uh he's implementing um to uh their decel meters that are in the house. So when the decibb hit a certain level, his phone will ring and he'll get

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a phone call and he'll be calling the uh person who signed the rental. Um so these are things that are new. They're new technology that are coming out. He's he's putting him in. Um there's another house. There's another house that uh Mr. Play was uh complaining about was I think was on Tangle Wood. I called the

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person that owns that house. Um they they haven't rented yet this year. It's been her and her family using the house, but she will be getting a rental certificate for that. So, um, we get the number of complaints we get a year is I can count on one hand as far as short-term rentals go. Um, neighbors

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generally don't get along with neighbors, it seems. You know, that that happens all over town. There's nothing we can do about that. But, uh, short-term rentals, there they seem the owners when they receive a phone call are pretty pretty bothered. And that party that I got a there was a video that Ed Pa had had sent. uh the when the

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owner of that house got a copy of that video, he was he was actually very just very bothered by that. So, um the short-term rentals, they they have a um I I think through Airbnb and through VBO and all of those, they they're tracked.

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You get a score and if people complain about it on those websites, they they you know, they they lose points and that matters to them, I guess. I don't I don't know how the whole thing works, but um that's that's all I have to offer. >> Thank you. I think one of the things

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that we were also looking at um and and it was in the Falmouth bylaw and Don was in support of it was having it no one at any at any time you can't have more than twice the occupancy for a sevenbedroom >> this is where we have a problem because

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we have yeah it's a lot of people >> 28 people so um yeah I think that that's something we need >> at night it's 14 I mean sorry at sleeping time it's 14 but dur but all the other hours it's 28 And I know there's another way this is >> written 14 on that New Hampshire Avenue

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>> 30 32 New Hampshire a house. I think 14 bedrooms. >> It used to be a >> It was used to be an end or something. >> Used to be a seminary >> a getaway or a retreat for >> it was a police retreat. Yeah. >> Huge place. >> Actually wrote them a violation notice for running a hotel.

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>> Years they violated Yeah. >> And the board of appeals upheld my decision. So um >> they have address Mr. >> Yes. Absolutely. >> Um you say it's a sevenbedroom house. >> Um the previous owner was the builder of

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that house and built a sixbedroom house. >> The septic system is rated as 770 gallons a day. That's seven bedrooms. >> Okay. But when you have 30 20 to 30 something male or 20 20 to 30

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something males from Holy Cross there for a weekend, >> boy. It might be a stretch for the septic system because the people came in and the people did not leave >> as far as overnight. >> I think what we're asking is if you can

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define >> the quiet hours more clearly with specific hours and the occupancy as two people per bedroom. If it's a sevenbedroom, then it's a sevenbedroom. Um, they no on street parking within

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certain hours. >> Um, I understand people can have parties and they I I'm at a disadvantage. I apologize. I wasn't sure that I would be here and I don't have that document. That's >> I'm sorry. >> We'll give you one. [laughter]

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>> So, I've been entertaining family from out of town, so I wasn't sure. >> Okay. >> That's [laughter] what you should be doing. >> But those are those are the big things. I did a spent an afternoon or so going through the various sites online and just doing

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a quick search and thank you so much. And found in that short period of time 22 houses that are short-term rentals within easy walking distance of my home

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on six streets. and I didn't venture beyond that. Um, I know there was a reference made to uh commercialization of some of the neighborhoods. And one of my questions this evening was if a house

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or a building is only a short-term rental, there's no time when the owner owner is occupying that home. Does that then become a business or is it still a residence?

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And does that affect the taxing of it? Is there a different tax structure if it's only a business? And again, going back to the the term that was used, the commercialization of a residential area. So, and I know with the prices these

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days, a lot of the bigger homes that are going up that haven't been available for sale for many years, even decades, they're being bought up by the LLC's and the trusts. And it would be a great advantage because most of these people come in

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after five o'clock on a Friday afternoon. And the neighbors are there watching the cars unload and the suitcases go in and everything else. And who do we call other than the police? I feel guilty calling the police.

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>> It's their job. >> I know. I know. And but they have so many other things that they might need to deal with. Um, but I know it would help if the owners would communicate with the neighbors or if we had, like you said, the public posting of the

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owner information. And I have said that when I have called the police because it's 2:00 in the morning and the party's still going on that I don't have the owner information. If I did, I would call the owner because it's not a police

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emergency in my opinion. But again, we we do appreciate that you're taking the time to look at the situation, that you're taking the time to listen to us and making some changes and adopting things that might work in other communities as well. And we applaud you

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for that. >> Thank you. >> Yeah, thanks for coming. Please take a look at uh the revised uh because we do include some of the those concerns that you have about uh limited liability corporations and the like. Um, and any

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any comments that you have, uh, you can direct them to Kathy directly, um, or join us at our next meeting. But we appreciate you waiting, you know, quite a bit of time here. We appreciate it. And we do we have do have someone uh remotely. Um, I see a hand,

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>> Jan. Jan, is that is that the first name? I'm just assuming. Okay, >> that's right. My name's Jan Sparren and I actually am a neighbor of Diane. So, hi Diane. Um, welcome to >> Hi. I just wanted to piggyback what Diane had to say. Um, I have owned my

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house since 1998. I live here full-time. Um, the opposite side of my street on Tangle Wood. Um, there are um, six Airbnbs, possibly a seventh. I'm not aware um, of the operation of that

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house. Um but I just want to focus a little bit on the um parking portion of the document. Um we have no sidewalks on Webster, Tanglewood, Carver, that whole

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area that is off of Standish. And um because there are more and more Airbnbs, the excise parking um ends up being on our street and our street is

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passable by one car only at a time. And so more cars are parking on now both sides of the street, which narrows the pathway for emergency vehicles or any vehicles of any type, including our own

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and delivery. So, and also people who live across from the Airbnbs have difficulty backing their cars out when there are uh double sets of cars on a street. So, um I just want to um um ask

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about the public post posting of owner information so that um we who live there full-time can just call the owners and um indicate to them that there is parking that is just going all the way down the street, multiple sides of the

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street and and perhaps still from 11:00 p.m. to 7 in the morning. Um it's a safety concern for us and I feel very odd like Diane said calling the police but it's um a lot of traffic congestion

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and it's really traffic safety at this point for those of us many of us that walk um down those streets um around the area to the beach and back again. So, I would appreciate it if you would take that into consideration with this

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document that you put so much time um into. So, I think that's the end of my public comment. [clears throat] >> Well, thank you very much. We appreciate you joining us, Jan. Thank you. >> Uh so, we've got a we've got a couple of comments here that we might want to

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tighten up. >> I think it it's it's unfortunate when you happen to have a um a grouping of Airbnbs. It's not like you just have like three two or three cars parking in front of one and you can kind of easily go around. It's like if it ends up being that row and especially if it happens to

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be um properties that have a larger number of bedrooms. It it can compound it compounds the the problem. It's not just one little area where oh I can just go around. So >> but parking on the street overnight >> was never allowed. But we didn't define

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what overnight was. We're trying to define the overnight and kind of matching that with the quiet hours, >> right? >> The 11 to 7, >> right? >> So, we are hoping to address a part of that. Yeah. Uh, Miss Brida, >> I just think the comment that the the um resident made about um if someone buys a

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property for the sole purpose of of uh investment, it's going to be rented all the time. And maybe this is a question for the town council. When does that become a commercial operation and not just an a short-term rental.

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>> Um, if it's well known that the property has been bought strictly for a rental, is that commercialization? When does when does it flip to commercialization? Maybe the He might have an opinion on that because that's an interesting idea. That's an interesting concept because clearly that that may be happening in

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their neighborhood where the house is used just not owner occupied and it's used just to to to generate revenue. Is that now a hotel? Wouldn't that be represented on the deed? If the deed came across as owned by Joe Smith, I mean, that's an individual. It's a private citizen. But if it came across

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as an LLC, you know that that's business. >> But but Joe Smith, it's not the question of >> You're right. It could be he could be Joe Smith, but he's not saying LLC. He's still Joe Smith of business, but he's not defined. >> Because when does Joe Smith move from

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Joe Smith owner to Joe Smith business owner? >> Correct. >> That's I think >> that's that's hard to define. is hard to define. >> It's very hard >> and I think that's probably you know that but I think if we're going to have that huge paragraph on commercialization that's maybe the town council would have

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an opinion on that. >> Just go ahead Kathy. >> The the definition I'm not sure then we're we're capturing all of that in what we have right here. Um the definition of owner and that this is something that other communities have done. It includes the LLC or a trust.

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Lots of times people, if it's a second home, they might put it in a limited liability corporation or they might have it in some type of trust. Um, the idea of how do you prevent someone I mean, we don't we're we're traditional vacation community. People buy second homes, they

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they use it themselves, and then they rent it out to get a little bit of income, that type of thing. Um, and that's kind of been seen as, okay, we're comfortable with that as somewhat accessory to what's going on in the neighborhoods. But when you're, like you say, Susan, if you're purchasing it and you're just using it for that,

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>> um, then it's it essentially is a motel. I know Ken has mentioned this, you're it's an unregulated motel in a in a residential zone. >> Exactly what it is. >> I don't know how you target that. How do you target that and say you can't do that? I've seen some weird weird other

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like proposals. I don't whether it ever went into any of the short-term rentals was that the owner has to has to stay overnight there a minimum number of nights per year >> and it's like that's an enforcement nightmare. >> How do you enforce that? You never

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could. >> Um so I don't know how you do it but that kind of gets you at the idea of you're not just buying it for investment. You have to stay there a certain number. So, I don't know how you target and and get that and be able to

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to find the right language and and I think that it's easy to get mixed up in that trying to define it because I think there are a number of houses that are inherited by people who do not live in

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them or ever stay in them and just keep renting them out. >> Uh but they don't want to lose it from the family and yet they do not live there. So, I think it would be very hard to define the commercial purpose versus the sentimental purpose. And that's

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>> an eligible unit is dwelling units used solely for short-term rentals. Maybe we throw that in there. But then again, how do you know >> define it? I mean, how do you know what short-term rental is? But how do you It's enforcing it. >> I meant enforcement. >> How do you enforce that? Kathy, I just

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want to point out under, you know, 418.3 and eligible units, Will and I were chatting while everyone was else was talking. >> And um >> number five, >> number five. I think that will hopefully eliminate 90% of what we're talking about. Ineligible units, dwelling units

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owned by CC Corp, S Corp, a non nominee trust, a partnership, real estate investment trust, or similar entity that engages in a primary investment activity. That's going to be 90% of the what we're talking about here that people are using this as a as a means

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and it says it right here in our own if this is what we adopt. It says that you can't do it. >> Yeah. The only thing I would add to that though is similar entity or purpose or person that because it doesn't have to be one of these. It could be >> I think that's a question for the council. >> Yeah. Could we put a similar entity and

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or a similar entity or person that's engaged primarily because it could be one single person. It doesn't have to be. That might get to it. >> That would that would do it. >> Just >> individual >> individual >> or individual right now. >> Thank goodness for town council Kathy.

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Also, your computer is doing shenanigans for the people at home who are trying to follow. >> Yeah, he's not showing it at home. >> Okay. Sorry. >> All right. >> You know, as you know, it's a very very creative >> segment of the economy. And I don't know whether you you get to this at through

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and Mark's gonna kill me through the application where it's an affidavit process where when you put in the application you say >> somehow we need to know or they need to if they're lying >> they need to attest to the fact that it isn't being used in the way that

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>> at least by you know right >> Madam Chair can I follow up on one thing? >> Yes. Yeah. So, I want to I I I do sympathize with what the two members of the public have talked about in terms of feeling guilty about calling the police. All I can say with with all due respect

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is call the police. That's it. So, you have to kind of get the emotional side out and drive the rational side in. And the rational side is in our town, the way this gets enforced when it comes to noise and parking, it is not unfortunately or very fortunately for him, Mr. grills. It is the Yarmouth

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Police Department there. There are no other mechanisms. I guess the state police, but let's not involve them. So, so I I understand what you're saying that you feel like they have enough to do and that's a different conversation than the the reality that you're living in and and the truth is the only people

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that will help enforce this when it comes to noise and it comes to parking >> is the Yarmouth Police Department. Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. >> Madam Chair, if [clears throat] I may. >> Yeah, Mr. G. Um, a police report, an official police report actually helps me with enforcement. I have something to follow up on. If I end up having to go

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to court with these people, which I've never had. Um, not with these, not with short-term rentals anyway. Um, if it comes to enforcement, I have that police report. That's the official document that, you know, right? If you call me, it's just hearsay. I wasn't here. >> So, it's helpful. It just helps me with

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enforcement. >> And and with the owner, >> right, >> as well. I mean, >> again, I've called the owners. I've not even had to write a violation notice. >> But having the police report when you go to the owner story in front of them helps course. >> Yeah. They get on no rent list. I guess there's a no rent list. So they, you

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know, if they cause trouble in a in a short-term rental, the owner reports them and they can't rent any more houses. So it's happened. It happened over in Yarmouthport. So it's pretty bad. They had a huge party. >> It's like an Uber. When you get a zero rating, they're not picking you up. >> Yeah. You're kicked out. You can't be a

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tenant any longer. So, >> short-term rentals that do have no rent lists where you you're banned from the particular entity. So, >> last thing, Madam Chair, of all the places on the Cape, I can only imagine I'm just going to imagine. So, let's do it. Um, you're that Province Town must

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have the most of this stuff going on, right? In terms of neighbors on top of neighbors, um, noise, trash, parking. So surely maybe there's an opportunity in the near future while we're going through this process is maybe I can do

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it on my own time um because I don't want to take up of any more of Cathy's or Marks. But you borrowed some really good stuff from Ptown. Maybe there's a conversation to be had with the Ptown Planning Board or even some one of the nice folks in the in the Ptown Police Department so that we can maybe have

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some information to help educate very nice neighbors in Yarmouth who feel a certain way. I'm guessing all those nice people in Ptown felt that way five years ago, but they don't feel that way anymore because there's been a a way for the police department to explain and maybe it would involve one of the lieutenants coming to one of our public

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hearings, you know, when we're talking about this issue so that everybody understands like it's okay to hear the lieutenant say it. Forget about us jokers. But if the lieutenant says, "Will you please call us so we can help you?" I think that would help a lot of people maybe make that leap. Um, besides what I just said about PTA, thank you,

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M. Well, I I think Kathy has already suggested that we have in our file folders all of the background from Province Town, from Falmouth, from all the towns that Yes. >> Um and and it's it's our responsibility

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as well to go through that. >> Sure. >> And and pick out those pieces where we think we could strengthen this. I think the VO with with all due respect will the the voice of a police officer from Province Town I I think I met Yarm sorry

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I'm so sorry that was me mixing all of my metaphors together >> so sorry there you go >> I met lieutenant you know one of the lieutenants are sergeants from the army >> I thought it was from pe time >> I'm so sorry that's okay >> no that's not a great use of their time >> uh yeah I didn't mean to >> but we understand that there are limited

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incidents um so far uh but the many voices that we're going to hear from this. I think at the public hearing when we go through this, perhaps we can invite a member of the police department uh to come and share with us their opinions and formally invite them um to

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share with us what they know. >> Mark and I have already talked about and he's actually talked to Kevin Lennon. They've got getting together in a meeting and kind of talk about what's the process. So, that's one of the other things that are kind of happening in the background. >> Great. Yeah, getting Chief Lennon involved would be great. Okay. Um any

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other any other discussion on this and again thank you very much for coming. We appreciate it >> both of you. >> Yeah, thank you Jen. >> Uh next item on our agenda uh are our minutes.

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>> I move the minutes of June 3rd, 2026 be approved. >> Second. >> Any discussion? >> All in favor? >> I abstain. I wasn't at the last one. um board of appeals and agenda. C Kathy

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had sent us um our emails on the ZBA. Any committee updates? >> Just a quick wastewater committee update. And the good news is as of this week, they'll be offer Route 28 for the summer. >> Oh, good. Uh, as far as wastewater, I

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can't answer for the gas work that was going on, which I believe is done at four corners and some of the other work there on um right at the corner of station a and >> that was water as well. >> That was water as well. >> Yeah, I can't I can't but just a quick

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summary of where everything's at. Um, contract one, which is the wastewater facility, that's moving on pace to be completed January 2028. We are not having a wastewater meeting in July, but we are having a tour. No date to be

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determined and I've been asked to extend an invite to the planning board. Um, if you'd like to be included, please let me know. They need to register their names. So, they, you know, they can't have 30 people at it, but they want to know if somebody wants to come to see where the process is at with building of the

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Great. So, just let me know and I'll get everybody registered that wants to come. Great. Awesome. >> What is that, Ken? I'm sorry. >> I don't know yet. I'll let I'll go through Joan and Kathy for the date as I don't know the date yet, but it's sometime in July. >> Have on that on that. Have has the committee been able to secure this space

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for their future meeting? >> That was one of the discussions at the last meeting that I was not able to attend. So, um, but >> they wanted a a broader venue. That's right. Yeah. I mean, >> technology here is >> technology. Exactly. >> Really the key thing. Contract two,

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which is east of Parker's River, will be that contract will be completed at the end of June, this the month we're in. Uh contract three, which is uh they both say east. One's west and one's east. Both of them to be to completed up to

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let's see, contract one was Long Pond to North Main. That's done. And then contract three, which is it's also done. That's that all that contract now is complete. I'm just looking what the addresses are. North Main Street intersection is complete from that

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standpoint. Southshore Drive is completed and repaved. Um I don't know if anyone's driven down Southshore Drive. It looks much better. Um they'll be done up to uh West Road and then that's what where they're stopping this week. They are going to be working on

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Higgins Croll going down to where Joshua Baker where they've already put a main in on Joshua Baker. So stay away from Higgins Croll. Um, so they've made huge progress. In the fall they'll be picking up from West Jamorth Road heading towards the Barnstable line. That's the

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that's the goal. They're what they are going to be doing over the summertime, which won't be on 28, is working on the finishing up all the pump stations. And I don't know if anyone's noticed the work done on the Long Pond one right by the Pancake Man, but they've done um

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landscaping to it now. It looks much better than it did a month ago. That's their goal this summer is to get the pump stations that have been done, get electricity to them, natural gas to them, and get them all landscaped. So, by the end of the summer, that's the

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goal to have all that stuff done. >> Great. Thank you. >> Yes. The CEDC had its second meeting on Monday the 15th. Um, we approved a couple of things. The first one was I'd have to get the exact amount, Kathy, so forgive me.

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>> 74,000. >> Okay. Thanks. Um 74,000 was approved um to help support. How would you describe it? I think you can describe it better than me. The best. >> Oh, no. That Oh, yeah. Well, I was going to get to that. I meant the other. That's what I meant. Okay. Well, I meant

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for what you and Joanne came for. 50,000. >> Was 50, right? We'll get to that. So, 74,000 in addition to taking a very large hunk of money out of the Bass River uh boardwalk uh naming fund, which

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is over 150. Well, 100,000 of that plus 74 from the CEDC will go to repairing all the pilings that got smashed up. And it wasn't even the big blizzard. It was the storm before that, >> the week before >> that had the crazy surge and then everything just got smashed to bits. So, the the reason why we wanted to get that

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done now is because they have someone ready to go and it hopefully will be done in 60 days. >> Oh, good. Great. Awesome. >> Will it be done in 60 days? Don't know. But but the good news is it's going to start I would assume as soon as as soon as soon um because it's been signed and

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the money is there and it doesn't require a whole bunch of process. Then there was 50,000 approved and can you help differentiate between what we approved for that that will help support this work. >> Yes. Economic development.

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>> Yeah. that came out of the economic development bucket to help Kathy >> do her thing with all Huh. >> and you guys >> and us ultimately with the the consultant process and streamlining and all those good things. Um and um

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yeah, I I just would give a lot of I would just like to give a lot of uh acknowledgement to to Megan Eldridge for resuscitating not just the committee but the effort behind it that is it reaches into a lot of different parts of our community like I just mentioned everything from natural resources to the work of the planning board to the work

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of other um you know private businesses as well as the chamber. There's a lot going on there and it is getting done and now there's a committee with which to help manifest it. Um so more to come but those are the two things that got decided on Monday. Thank you Madam Chair.

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>> As a followup to that uh because Kathy and I were at that meeting on Monday uh what just a public comment on I I was surprised at in these buckets the administration account balance the public improvement the special events

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the marketing the economic development. There's a lot of money >> million I think roughly. >> I'm I'm thinking much more than that. I mean the marketing account balance is 227 for the coming year. Um and economic

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development is around 134,000. So I think what they're aggressively trying to do is move forward on on capturing projects that need some help. um and we we were a perfect candidate for it. So,

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Kathy, your timing was exactly right. And so, as part of the economic development bucket, if you will, we were able to secure a a really nice a really nice piece of that. Um so, I I'm really happy that the committee's back and clearly with Megan at the at the ch at

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the head of it, it'll it'll I think it's going to move forward. Um that that committee has been dormant for way too long. >> Long time. >> Way too long. And as I should also add, there's still room for at least two more members. So if you know anybody from the general public that might be interested in supporting the work of the committee,

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we definitely have room for more members. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. >> You're welcome. Any other committee updates? Uh Tedra, >> we did have the housing committee meeting um and a big part of it was the um uh habitat

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development and that I think we've covered and also the uh a rent approval update at Captain Gladcliffe and uh the affordable housing trust

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put in an application for more community preservation funds. The housing authority is once again considering another RFP for Forest Road. They're still trying to figure a way to work around that.

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>> And then the Affordable Housing Trust is progressing on a couple of the sites on Route 28 that we've talked about the mixeduse developments that are, you know, they're sort of languishing until there is sewer. Go ahead. but they're moving ahead and uh I think that those

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are the basic things that were covered. >> Great. >> Tom, anything? No. >> Okay. >> Uh staff updates, >> yeah, I think the only thing I want to talk very briefly about I don't know. Do I have it here?

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Hang on. is the LCP and our annual review. Um I had a good conversation with Megan today and she is fabulous and I'm very glad she came to the town of Yarmouth. Brought a lot of good horsepower which we really needed. So it was great. Um but one of the things we had talked

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about is when we going to be doing our annual updates and I think it would be great if we could do it based on a calendar year. So I've developed this matrix that shows all the different actions, identifies the time frame, but I also put in the different years. So when we say something's going ongoing from um ongoing to three, that means

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it's happening in the first, second, and third year of the plan. And you can see that here. Um you can't see it in this tiny little thing, but these are all the years. And this is kind of highlighting the years with which we're going to be working on those. Um and then obviously the responsible parties and the funding, but then we can we can write in all the

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staff can write in the updates to it. Um because it's a spreadsheet, you kind of need to have a separate thing for for links. might be good to have, you know, we'll have we completed the short-term rental study this year and the planning board used it to work on blah blah blah and then you can have a link to the uh short-term rental. So, um this is something that we could I mean we're

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going to need a lot of input from town staff because they everybody's working on their own thing and everyone kind of has a little idea but not everything. But this might be something we can just put up on teams. people can go in and keep keep it over the next, you know, maybe we'll do it up in like the fall or

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something and people can fill in things like what do you think you're going to have done by the end of the year and then at the end they can just really quickly finalize it and then it'll be something that would be done in January for you guys to look at and then we could present to the select board in in January before annual town meeting February and March starts really hitting

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them with with very heavy um uh agendas. >> Can they utilize this now Kathy? >> Not yet. No. Yeah. Okay. >> But it's a I mean I've I've done it all up and then what's nice is you can hide these late these uh columns and then we'll do the next year will be the next

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columns. But we'll always have that background of what do we accomplish in 26 27 20 as we're continuing through the years. So things like the the action that we took to go to CEDC. >> Yeah. The affordable housing trust. Um, as soon as this is up and active, you

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can enter that as to a status and then keep up updating it. Um, and then we would have something year end >> uh from hopefully everyone who's got something going >> um uh to report out on at least for the year one,

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>> you know, and if you're not working on it, that's okay. Yeah. Have not gotten to that yet. we're going to work on it, you know, and also giving an idea of like we're working on it, but we're also going to be continuing to work on it in 2027 to give people an idea of the timelines on these things uh as well. So,

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>> so that's something making progress. I didn't want us to forget about it, but we do need to look at it. >> That is what that is. We are in charge of that. >> I think it's a good opportunity for the town staff to tell all the great work that they're doing community to hear about it. Right. Um, and could

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this be um could this be a document that is public? >> It will eventually be when it gets um presented to the uh select board at our annual Yeah, it would be in the packet. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. Y and we'll give a little presentation. It would be great if a bunch of different um all the different

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staff could come. If anybody had any questions, they might be able to uh answer that because this is going to be like a not a super detailed but review, but it just kind of give you an idea of the status of the project, but not the de the deep details of the project. >> Okay. Um anything else?

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>> Nope. Um I'm sorry. Hazard mitigation plan. Uh FEMA came back with some revisions that they wanted. Um we're coordinating with the Cape Cod Commission. Um and resubmitting that to them. Hopefully that'll be something that they'll approve and we can get that um to the select board for adoption in

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the near future. So that's moving along as well. Uh and then I just want to let people know about the Revolutionary War monument has been installed at the Fred Thatcher um playground and we are having a dedication ceremony and a whole celebration this Saturday, June 20th

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from 10 to 7. >> Don't drive there. >> Don't drive there. Thank you. shuttles. >> You walk or take your >> take a shuttle from the DY Intermediate School. >> Oh, there is going to be shuttles from >> There's gonna be shuttles. Yep. But there's going to have like a live encampment, family-friendly events. There's going to have some music and

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then they're also going to, I think, go up to the um ancient cemetery at one point at 11 o'clock. So, there's a lot of great things that are going to be happening >> and that's all on the town website. All the details there. >> Uh so, >> I've seen I've seen um [clears throat]

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general information. This is a great flyer that I pulled off of our comm. >> There's quite a bulletin board going on. >> There's quite a bit of signage up on the 6A area. >> 6A has the big flags. >> Yeah. >> Oh, okay. >> I just don't know what the time >> Oh, it's 10 to 2. >> 10 to 3. 10 to 3.

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>> 10 to 3. Okay. >> 10 I think 10:30 is the dedication. >> Okay. >> I'm just hoping there's, you know, something on the Yarmouth website. >> Yeah. Something there. >> I didn't look. I'm sorry. I had this.

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That's okay. That's my job to go look. Um, anything else, Kath? >> Nope. That's it. >> Okay. We have a couple of upcoming meetings. Um, July 1st and July 15th. Uh, anything coming up regulatory for

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us, Kathy, on those either of those? >> No, nothing that I know of. Um, one thing I might mention is that I may not be available on July 1st and >> I will definitely unfortunately you are definitely not

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>> uh because of camp. So quorum will be important um uh just keep that in mind if you can um >> who's going to be in charge madam chair. >> Oh god Ken Ken >> congrats. >> I'm like I was going down the line

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>> I was gonna say chair vice chair. Oh yeah. Congratulations. [laughter] >> Uh but I'll know sooner as we get closer to it. >> Um >> that'll be fun. >> Uh >> be a quick meeting >> streamlined. [laughter] I like

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>> we're streamlining everything including the meetings. >> Okay. May I have a motion to adjourn? >> So moved. >> Second. Uh >> all in favor? I >> There we go. Thanks so much everybody. Thank you. >> Thank you Mark. Anytime. >> Recording stopped. >> Quick question. Yeah. Okay.