Good evening and welcome to the >> recording in progress. >> Good evening and welcome to the February 4th, 2026 Yarmath Planning Board meeting. I am Joan Crowley, chair. The public is welcome to attend in person this evening or via alternative public
access provided on the notice of meeting available on the town website. I'll begin by taking roll call. Susan Brida. Deerra Aquin >> here. >> Tom Pendleton >> here. >> Will Rubenstein >> here.
>> Peter Slovak. >> Ken Smith >> here. >> Joanne Crowley present. Seeing we have a quorum. I'll now call the meeting uh to order. And I'd like you to join me in the pledge of allegiance. I pledge algiance to the flag of the
United States of America and to the republic for it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. So on our agenda tonight, first item is a proposed draft zoning amendment, the
VCO D setback requirements. In our packets this evening, is zoning article one, draft one and an updated red line edits of draft two, both dated January 30th, 2026, which would amend the
village center overlay district. a maximum front yard setback requirements in light of the proposed strip land takings for the Mass DOT Route 28 corridor improvement project. I'd like
Kathy to take this over and give us an update. >> Thank you. Um I think it's very simple um zoning amendment article. that was written based on our previous discussions um with regard to kind of offering some of that extra relief to people who are currently designing their
project but the mass DOT project hasn't come through and actually taken any strip takings yet. Um so there's two small sections uh in the zoning bylaw that would actually be amended. Um, one of them is adding that extra criteria for the special permit relief granted in front yard setback requirements is
related to land takings or permanent easements taken as part of a Massachusetts Department of Transportation Route 28 corridor improvement. And I think we should plural that and say projects because there's a couple projects that are actually happening. Uh, and then with regard to section uh 414.6.4,
that's where we say where how you can get relief and where you can go for relief. Uh, and it says right now that for the maximum front yard setback and height, you have to get a variance. Uh, we're just basically eliminating the maximum front yard setback, meaning you could get relief via a special per permit from the zoning board of appeals.
Uh, I took a shot at the explanation uh to trying to give some general information, but not getting too far into the weeds with regard to the specifics. I don't want this to become a whole conversation about the mass DOT project and what's going on there. It's more of what are we doing with zoning to
try and accommodate some current um projects that are in development. And the also attached is the red line version just to kind of show you the actual edits and the rest of the special permit criteria. >> So any comments? Mr. Smith, we'll start with you.
>> Yeah, this is exactly what we discussed at the last meeting. I'm fine with it. Thank you, >> Mr. Rubine. >> I just wanted to know if on the red line number 11 you wanted to make that plural as well. projects. >> Okay. And not just in the actual >> No, it would be both places.
>> Okay. Both places. Um, >> yeah. And C, I guess I would just say, Kathy, no matter what, people will people. So, when it does get to town meeting, someone's going to stand up and talk about mass DOT projects. So, just know when that happens, it's not your fault.
>> Thank you, Madam Chair. >> M. G., it looks fine. >> Mr. Pelson, >> it looks fine to me. Thank you. I I have one comment which I've already discussed with uh Kathy in our preparation meeting this morning. I'd like to suggest a change in the language for the last
sentence under the explanation which Kathy said she struggled with a little bit which I found surprising but um so I'd like to suggest uh that that sentence read as follows. This amendment allows for more flexibility for
developers who have projects currently in design that may be affected by the final design of the mass DOT projects because it's about the developers, you
know. I think I just I thought that was >> okay. We good with that? That's good. >> Yes, that sounds very good. >> Just a quick administrative question, Madam Chair. >> Certainly. when we when we make amendments like this that would obviously this is affect going to affect the zoning board of appeals. >> Yes. >> Oh yes.
>> So I assume that there was a is there when when do we say to them hey we're thinking of doing this or have you already done that? >> I I have not done that. Um I think once we get this finalized I would send it to the town administrator's office and we can certainly forward it along to the zoning board of appeals. I think the
collegial thing to do is to do that and I'm assuming we do it anyway, right? As soon as it makes sense to our process and not any sooner, >> right? >> And also that Mr. Grills I assume >> Oh, he's already reviewed it and didn't have any problems. >> Okay. Thank you, Madam Chair. I will say um again there was correspondence from
uh Susan Brida who's couldn't join us this evening who suggested that um we actually include the contract numbers for the mass DOT projects and in discussing this with Kathy and
looking at our zoning bylaw there there are no there are no mentions of specific contracts >> and I I think it would burden um the change because every time there's a contract change and I used as an example the combination of the bridge project
and the four corners >> is now one project. >> Um so I'll um we'll you know we'll let Susan know uh but she had wanted to suggest that the contract numbers be in there. Your feelings? >> No, I don't think there's any need.
>> I don't think that specificity >> you put the project numbers in there. You're going to have to go back and change this every time there's a new project. And I think that's we don't need that. >> It only includes the projects we know of now. Correct. That actually have project numbers. And as you know from the government, >> correct?
>> It's possible andor likely that that will change. >> Okay. >> Very much. >> Um I guess the only other thing I'd like to talk about is since it's so simple, um do we just want to go ahead and schedule the public hearing um for March 4th?
>> Sure. >> Sure. Madam Chair, I may not be here for the March 4th meeting. Just let you know. >> Okay. >> Well, we'll make sure we got a a quorum one way or another. >> You need a quorum. I can make I can >> Can you zoom in?
>> Uh, no. But if you need a quorum, I can be here. I can make a change. >> Okay. >> But right now, >> I I think we'll probably be okay. We only need four. >> Thank you. Um, and Joanne had an excellent suggestion of for the public hearing and again for town meetings just maybe having like a sketch of a
hypothetical lot and showing how the impacts that we're kind of talking about. That's a great >> Madam Chair. One last constituency I was thinking of. Um, does it make sense to let the chamber know about this or is that just normal that they pick up on these things? >> Kathy,
>> only for the public hearing in case that >> Sure. Typically for the public hearing I do do a notification to a bunch of different people. Um, so anything else on the amendment zoning amendment change? >> Nope. >> We're good to go then. >> Okay. You okay, Kath? >> Yep. That's great.
>> Okay, great. Next up on our agenda is the short-term rental study. Hard to see. I'd like to open up discussion on this draft uh of the study conducted by UMass Amherst Donahghue Institute. I think we've seen one
version of this before. >> This is the red line version. Um this was sponsored and paid for by the Yarmouth Affordable Housing Trust. Um and uh they will be presenting this uh
uh report uh to the February 24th select board meeting which uh as many of us who can attend I I would appreciate if you could but we wanted to um open up just a discussion on um your thoughts on this.
Um this is a product that was produced partly as you know as a somewhat of a request from us but more so from the affordable housing trust think linking it to its um uh correlation if you will
to uh uh affordable housing and the housing issues that we have in town. Uh uh we've talked about this before, but I'd like to just open it up. Any further comments on this redline version, which was I think easier to read and
understand where changes and I think they made some good changes. >> Um uh adjustments, as I've said before, um and I'm I'm kind of echoing Peter Slovak who's not here. Um the first half is great demographics that we've never
really had in one place before. um telling us the story about what's been happening. I think it's a really good and then we have the second half which is uh all of the possible options that others have used to regulate
short-term rentals, some of which may or may not be appropriate for us to consider. Um because we do have to we do have to have something at special town meeting in November, right, >> to extend this. Um, and I think the planning board has always been in
support of having short-term rentals in town and having a proper zoning regulation for them. And if there's something in this that can make it a better uh regulation and a better bylaw, um, we should consider it and get it in
front of the public. Um, and if not, we'll just move forward with the existing with the existing bylaw. So, I'd like to start at this end with Mr. Pendleton, if you have any comments about it. Um, >> I do and I want to agree with you, Madam Chair. I think it's a lot easier read
than the first time that I read through this. This makes a lot more sense. I do have one question on page 31. In this red line, it says all towns in the cap are now designated seasonal communities, but it doesn't indicate are all the towns have all the towns accepted that designation at this point?
>> No. A bunch of towns um have accepted designations? The people uh the that were in the original uh designation when they when the affordable homes came out. They I can tell you which ones have >> I know we're in the process of looking. >> It's essentially everyone east of us
>> is a seasonal. >> No, I'm wrong. Dennis isn't >> No, Chadam, East Ham, Orleans, Province Town, Turo, and Wellfleet have actually adopted the designation. What I think you're saying is everyone east of us was offered the designation. >> Yes. Yeah.
>> And Dennis hasn't adopted it yet. not according to the PowerPoint presentation that was recently done. So >> So you know everything west um is is
what this particular piece of legislation and it I don't think it's it hasn't passed yet has it? Yes, it has. >> What's the >> the legislation to to provide us? Yes.
Yes. Um, and on that Kathy, you want to maybe this is the time to talk about Mr. Written Hours? >> Yes, I think just kind of the the update on this is um >> you're going to do this as part of the update, but maybe it's appropriate now. >> My notes here. Um, it sounds like they
are looking to have this on the 2026 annual town meeting to adopt the designation of seasonal communities >> in in April. April 20th. April. Oh wow. >> Yeah. So, um I did go to a presentation for Kate Cod. I think I saw
>> I was there too. >> There as well, right? >> Um it seemed very similar to what they had done in Birkshshire County. Um but they did drop the new regulations at like 4:03. I got an email. I didn't have a chance to um look at them, but remember we had looked at the draft
regulations for seasonal communities. Now they have made some edits. They did talk a little bit about those edits. Um and that and now they have the revised regulations. It's not on the agenda tonight, but I was thinking that we would have that on the next uh planning board meeting agenda to talk a little bit more about seasonal communities and
I can get you all that information. They did forward the PowerPoint presentation, a bunch of other documents to anyone who attended and I'll be sure that we'll get that in the packet for for the next meeting. >> Great. Thanks, K. Miss Gwin, >> um I think it's
I like the the new addition and I was focusing a little bit on Kathy's point that we should try to see if there are any additional data points that could help us make the decision. And I started
looking at some of the American Community Survey data that was recently released for one year. They the 2024 data was released last week and I was trying to see if there were any clear
differences between 2014 in 2024 to see if there seemed to be impacts on the town. And the it was really sort of fascinating to me that things like the proportion the vacancy rate the proportion seasonal the proportion of
households with people over 60 all of these things are essentially within the margin of error 2014 2024 all the same. And the the one couple of differences that seem to be interesting are that the
labor force participation rate is lower now a little bit a few points lower. So there's more retired people or not otherwise non not in the labor force. And also um
interestingly the shift in the occupation the industries that people are working in. Okay, >> there's since 2014 there's been a drop in the tourism related industries that they mention in here
>> and the there are quite a few more Yarmouth residents working in construction that's really taken a jump. So that was in the ACS, but I went to the state um the state
data which they took from the Bureau of Labor Statistics establishment survey which instead of being a survey of the residents of Yarmouth, it's a survey of the businesses in Yarmouth. And it it said the same thing that the um there
are fewer tourism related businesses and more construction businesses. Now I don't know if that makes any difference if these short-term rentals are impacted by it, but those were basically the the only major differences I noticed in the
10-year uh comparison. Um, the other thing I I wanted to say is that I thought the list of hotels that you made is fantastic and I think some of the other things that I think are interesting on the the information
from this document and that Peter has brought in the air DNA and the air or the the databases of the short-term rentals. It's interesting how there a lot of them are clustered with Vicasa
and all all of these brokers that are people people are still using realtors I think as well as putting them on the apps and so you know I just I don't know if it's worth looking into any of those or getting more data from the Chamber of
Commerce on anything they know about uh the rentals because the the difference between the investment purchases and the second homeowners is so so hard to determine. I I'm thinking of I have a
lot of siblings. Three of us are yearrounders and three of them have houses here, but they're second homes, but they're here every weekend. They're they're here all the time. And I think that that's the case for an awful
lot of second homes in this town. And people might rent them out for a week or two if they have some friends that want a place and but they they really it's a it's too nebulous uh a group of homes to to really put a
finger on it. Uh anyway, those are just some of the thoughts I've had as I read through this and uh I don't know if it's if there's anything that we should pursue more, but that's what I thought. >> Okay. Thank you. Um Mr. Mr. Rubenstein. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. I I also agree
this is this report got stronger, I think, all the way around. Um I guess the one thing that jumped out to me was just on page 64. Um, and this is more, I guess, down the road as we start thinking ahead to fall town meeting,
which is the idea of, um, using geographic areas or zoning districts to try to manage the amount of short-term rentals. And I thought I just I don't know, just started thinking because we we have three villages. Um,
and maybe there's a conversation to be had down the road as we start thinking about any, you know, revi however we're going to revise this. Would that make any sense um to try to use our geography in our village structure as a way of
trying to continue to I don't know what the word is mitigate or improve depending on how you look at it um the situation. So, I just found that that particular issue interesting. I'm not sure it works in terms of our
town by using zoning districts. I I'm not sure that would work, but obviously smarter people than I would be able to tell me. Um because if I recall, you know, we have some pretty you could say, well, we're only going to do it in residential
districts. Well, that's a lot of the town. >> It is. It is. >> So, like that that that particular way of slicing this may not work. But I thought the village idea again based on I think it was Palm Springs um could work. I don't know. But I just it made me think and that was the whole point of
the report is that these nice smart people at UMass Donahghue looking around the country and saying well we're surely not the only people who are dealing with this issue and and thankfully they found some other kinds of ways because let's just say we're in phase one of dealing with this right since 2024 and now we're
trying to transition into phase two and maybe in phase two um there's an opportunity to look at this geographically and I just found that really interesting and again would welcome the discussion that I'm sure there are pros and cons of as everybody's brains are starting to think well this could work or this might not
work but I do feel like that's going to be a way of looking at it that would welcome discussion from the business community perhaps or the real estate community as well as members of the board that know more than I do about this subject. So I found that particularly interesting. Um, other than
that, um, I I look forward to where this discussion leads because it is thankfully we did put a timer on it, which means like all good timers, it forces action. And I appreciate the fact that we're sitting here in February with a report that seems to be pretty much
done. And that gives us a runway. As you know, Madam Chair, I like to work backwards since I am your clerk. working backwards from, you know, having something that needs to be ready in Septemberish um means we got to we got to get to work. So, I'm very happy that's where we
are now and I look forward to the future discussions on the issue. >> Madam Chair, may I ask you a question? >> Is it will Yeah. >> I'm not sure why you would look at doing it by village and uh and geographically
I think is a great idea. Yeah. But why restrict it to geographically in one village? Why not g why not do it geographically but pick different areas throughout the town not just select it by village? Um >> maybe I'm maybe I'm asking >> no I think it's worth a big I think it's
worth a bigger discussion >> but the reason I thought of villages is because it's just very simple for people to get their mind to wrap their minds around because we're a three village town. That doesn't mean it's the right way to do it for our town. Okay. But it it just >> my my little brain just went, "Oh, we
have three villages. >> Maybe we should think about villages and maybe each village has a different number >> of short-term rentals or maybe there's a or maybe the caps are different." I don't know. But it just that's why I thought about it that way. >> Um >> because I'm not sure I'm not sure we
could go to town meeting in November and put a map up that shows a different kind of way of slicing our town up. on top of zoning districts. >> I think there I think there is and you would be the expert on that. Census tracks. We could do census tracks. We have six census tracks, but
>> but it seems to me like I I personally don't think I like the idea of a cap at all. >> And um but but maybe we could look at the census tracks and see how if they have different I'll I'll look at that and see if there's different seasonality and things like that.
>> Yeah. One of the things on the subject um the map that they put in the the um the cluster this is a on page 48. >> Thank you. >> Um you can see in certain neighborhoods >> the density is really
>> yeah pretty severe. Um and it it may be that um those are the areas if we were to look at something. Um but again it it you go back to the some
of the comments in the report it's you know is it discriminatory to identify a neighborhood? Um I own a house. I should be able to do what I want with it if it's within legal parameters. Um, but
other town obviously other towns I think Kenny Bunkport was the one example that had license I I believe it had licensing. >> Um, and uh but anyway, uh I guess it'd be interesting is there a way to do an
overlay of the cens are there discrete census tracks for Yarmouth? Yes, there are six six in Yarmmouth. So, I can pull those up and I will see what I can find for that. >> Um Kathy, >> I'm just concerned about adding a whole another layer to our permitting. So, now
u when they're doing this, the health department, they're registering now, they need to know what census tract something is in. Um although I understand the idea of maybe there's some areas that are being hit harder than others. Um I just think we need to kind of keep thinking of the practicality and the mechanism of
actually doing some of the things that you're talking about um compared to what is the how extensive is the need to go to those levels of restrictions of different villages or different areas of town. >> Well, that's only that's only if we agree as a board there should be caps
period. So, I think we have to sort of >> Yeah. >> And again, I I'm not trying to get our get ahead of ourselves, but I just thought the idea of using the villages as a way of even having a discussion about possible caps, if that's the right word, would be a way to do it. But
again, we'd have to maybe I'm getting too far ahead of ourselves and maybe we need to talk as a board. And thank goodness, Madam Chair, we have seven months um to talk about this um to figure out whether we need to have caps at all. And then if we do, well, then how do we do it and where do we do it and what do we do? And it comes back to
the my initial question and and Tom and and uh Deedra and I have been at several of these affordable housing meetings. There's there has not been a definition of the problem. >> That's right. >> There is there a problem and what is the
definition of >> Peter would say that if he was sitting here I imagine >> and I think Mr. Forest would say the same thing and has said it >> and that's exactly Madam Chair how I feel about it is >> what are we trying to I think there is some fabulous information in here and you know putting on my former hat being
in the hotel business for 30 years on Cape Cod there's a lot of great information stuff in here that I you know brought to my eyes I said wow that's really good information but I come take a step back and say what is this report really trying to solve do we really know what the problem is because
I don't think restricting ing. Personally, I don't think restricting short-term rentals is going to solve the housing problem one bit. >> So, I guess as Deedra said, I'm definitely not in favor of putting an artificial cap to it. You know, if you
look at it and you say, "Well, look at the clusters. The clusters are all within walking distance to the beaches." That's right. I mean, the north side and south side. That's exactly where I expected the clusters to be. Um, so you I'm not shocked by it. And I think personally I think the cap truly is
supply and demand. >> Yeah. >> Right. >> If you say that I want to rent my house out and try and make money on it and go through all the I'll just say it all the hassles or go through all the motions. I should rephrase how I say it to have my house as a short-term rental and you
don't rent it because there's too much product or too much inventory. People are going to say, "Well, this isn't worth the hassle." And back out of it. There's the natural cap right there. for some reason. I I think if we're going to take a look at it from a cap standpoint, I was shocked by the fact the amount of
how small it was by owner occupied short-term rentals they were. I think if we even discuss it, my concern truly is the corporate proliferation of purchasing these houses and then using them as short-term rentals. Basically, they're taking and having unregulated
hotels. That's what they are. And that's to me, if I was in the hotel business, which I'm not anymore, and know all the hassles, and I'll say that publicly, it takes to run a seasonal hotel in the town of Yarmouth and you have somebody,
yes, there's rules they have to follow for a short-term rental. But from a corporate standpoint, if you own five, six, seven, 10, 12, I don't know how many properties these people own, and you they don't have to jump through the same hoops that a hotel owner does, I think I'd be pissed. Excuse my language,
but the bottom line that's if there was any type of structure that I'd be in favor of at least looking at is do we look at how much short-term rental a corporation can own. Beyond that, I don't think we should put a artificial cap on it. >> Doesn't Sorry, Madam Chair, but Kathy,
doesn't the seasonal designation have some language in there about I thought there was some language in there that we didn't like when we first heard the seasonal designation law, right? Remember the first PowerPoint you sent us? It was probably a year and a half ago. Wasn't there? >> Nope.
>> No, no. But what I'm saying is in general, I thought one of the things we were concerned about is that part of the accepting the seasonal designation. >> Maybe I'm mixing up some of these things at the state. Oh, maybe it was the homes the homes bill >> where they were allowing more corporate
ownership >> when the >> or they were making it much easier for for corporus. They were making corporate it was making it much easier for corporations. >> Will it was ADUs? >> ADUs. Okay. Sorry, not not it's not part of the seasonal designation language. My my apologies. >> I think it kind of it's interesting that
you're talking about the corporations because I always felt like the short-term one of the things people were saying is short-term renting your house was an accessory use to a single family home and to a certain extent corporate ownership. That's not accessory use to a
single family home. That's a like you say a business. It's a unregulated motel. So, that's kind of an very interesting distinction to make. Um, I do know that, um, Peter had mentioned some stuff about things going on in Nantucket where they tried to limit the
number of corporations. Um, and so they said no corporations, but they didn't talk about LLC's. And so, there's some people who have their home, second home legitimately in an in an LLC. It's not a corporation. That's just how they want to structure the second home that they
own. Um, but there's also you can have creating an LLC is pretty simple. >> U, you don't have to do a whole heck of a lot of it and you could own a lot of different things and kind of move around who owns what names are on all of these different pieces of paper with regard to the LLC. So, how you what's the
mechanism and what how do you try and catch it might be the might be the sticking point that we would need to put some research into because we don't want to put it in say no corporations and then everyone just does an LLC anyway and then it doesn't make any difference. But the accessory to the single family home is what we always envisioned it
when people would have that second home. They'd rent it out like you're saying for a little bit of time, maybe the heat of the summer in order to get some money to keep it going. Uh but they were using it. >> Yeah. >> But they were using it. So the so the short-term rental was accessory to their
main use, not the main use. >> I guess the only other thing I would think of I'm sure that Miss Brida will give her perspective given where she lives. Um, if we think of the perspective of someone living in one of these neighborhoods that is a year-round resident,
they might have a different perspective on CAPS. >> That's true. They might, you know, and this is why we have the process that we have is that when we have a public hearing after our deliberations and we present something, there might be some folks in certain neighborhoods and certain streets who might say, "Gosh,
you know, there's 12 houses on my street and 10 of them are short-term rentals and my neighbor and I are the other two." And it's it's not great. And and I'm not I'm not saying that that's bad or good, but I do feel like we might
hear pretty loudly from some folks um who don't think this is wonderful and do think there needs to be some sort of more or more guard rails, however you want to say it. And I do understand where where um Mr. Smith is coming from too in his perspective. So
>> as always, Madam Chair, so many fascinating conversations yet to come. Uh my thoughts are mirror a bit of Mr. Smith's with regard and we went through this the same discussion with regard uh when we were doing our ADU amendment
about others owning the property. >> They're not residents. They're not it's not in their name. Um, and we've been lucky so far, it seems, based on the data that UMass has provided to us that this is not really this is not a big
issue right now, but it could be. >> And maybe we want to get ahead of it. Um, I'm I'm I'm channeling Kathy here. Um, we want to get ahead of it uh to
protect ourselves. And I think that that might be one adjustment that we might want to seriously consider. Um, the other thing, again, I uh um you know, you you you go through all of the
details of these of this report, and I I try not to get too much in the weeds, but um I I still have some concern about the the language that they used, and I said this when the three of us were at the
Affordable Housing Trust. um they they there's there's some black and white language in here where um they there's um an indication that it will affect blood. We really don't know that. Um uh and I'd
ask that they not necessarily soften it, but um adjust it in some ways. And I think um these don't include any edits from the last meeting that we had where we talked
about them adding some additional information on the community impact fee. They're still working on that and as well as your comment >> that was at the last meeting with regard to >> willing. Great. Um and and again the the other comment that that I shared with Kathy today is
I'm not sure what to do with this. which is what Peter has been saying from the beginning. >> I'm just not sure what to do with it. >> So, um I think I think we've we've reached some commonality on the other ownership. Maybe that's one of the key
things that we could be worried about and that could be a threat in the in the future. Um um I and and again I'm repeating myself. All of these the
box of short-term rentals and if you want to keep con putting all sorts of different boundaries on it, squeeze it, squeeze it, something if if someone is expecting affordable housing to pop out. It's not. >> Thank you.
>> It's not. >> Madam Chair, that leads to the question of what is the 24th going to look like? What is that conversation going to be? And who's leading it and who's a part of it? Yes. if you don't mind, Madam Chair. >> No, absolutely. Ex excellent question >> because it like you said, you just asked
a really big question that I'm not sure how that question will be addressed if at all on the 24th. >> Well, you asked on he was going to be giving a presentation and they wanted to give a presentation not individually to the two different boards, but to the select board and the planning board at the same time. I am hoping that the
select board will allow the planning board members to ask their questions or make some statements uh as well as um you'll be kind of part of participating within that part of the agenda item. Whether that happens kind of as a function of the chair and and that type
of thing, but I don't think there's been an actual discussion on that. But it's a it's kind of I'd like to see your guys' name on the agenda along with the UMass Donahue uh so that you have an opportunity to ask questions and make comments. I would think the select board
would be very interested in what you guys have to say. >> Anything else on this topic for tonight? Okay. Uh next up is U Madaki's update. Kathy had a Kathy and I attended the
selectman's meeting last select board meeting last night and the muck was right before her presentation on hazardous mitigation. >> But you did a great job. You >> did a terrible job combining bringing my notes down because I had a whole bunch
of notes that I was just going to read. Um >> Phil some time if you'd like >> the No, she's got it. Okay. >> Yeah. the the m the muck um gave a presentation to the select board basically kind of as as well as BSC
group was their con their consultant uh and they gave an overview of the benchmarking that they had done on sports complexes kind of indicating the size and the um number of fields and whatever in order to give us a general idea of what might be looking at for our
particular property. Um and then they went through the different con uh conceptual design plans. They had they had basically they had five plans but basically the third plan was a slight modification. Um so they had the plan with the first one uh had had basically
the sports complex on the left side and then the housing on the right side which kind of means that you can't do the sports complex until you deal with the issue related to the to the um to the schools and obviously and also the solar panels. Um, alternative B was the one that included the space for the schools,
had some nice housing in the back, little housing, launch chickity, and then the sports complex on the right. Um, and number C, C had um the sports complex always stayed on on the right side, and then just C one, two, and three kind of had different variations of housing density, different types on
on the left side. Um, I think there was a lot of discussions from um Liz Arargo with regard to the solar and the solar existing ground mounted solar. Um I think one of the things that Sharon Wymer said at the very beginning of the chair of the muck is that this land is gold. So maybe that's not the best use
for this particular site. It probably has like another five years uh in it. Uh so that was one of the things that was concerned and then they were talking a lot about how could we add solar and sustainability and micro grids and that type of thing um with regard to to the site. Um but I think overall the and
Tracy Post was very interested in alternate B because it had the school in it because we don't know what's going on with the school. with any alternative at least in the short-term phasing of the project needs to include that the school doesn't go there that leaves a big chunk of land open for maybe something we haven't even thought of yet you know but ultimately the uh I think the select
board were comfortable with presenting all five uh concept designs to the public at a community meeting which is scheduled for uh February 25th at 6 pm here in the hearing room and it'll be remote access as well uh with a snow date of unfortunately March 11th be nice
if it could closer, but um it's hard to get this book this room. Um so hopefully they'll get some additional information um from the public and then they'll compile their final report for presentation uh to the select board which will include three concepts in
there for them to continue. Uh Amy I'm not Frigidi uh the assistant town administrator also gave a presentation on the different elements of the mass development grant and what would be done funding with the with the next phase uh which is going to be including a much more detailed market analysis financial
feasibility analysis of the sports complex uh really vetting that in a much deeper way and then also BSC group continuing u with some of the engineering doing a survey getting the wetlands actually delineated out there doing a traffic analysis is starting to look at the zoning force, what kind of
overlay or what kind of uh ways that we might be able to change the zoning in order to accommodate the uses that uh everyone is interested in. Um so that's probably something that's going to probably take another 18 months uh to complete. So we've answered this many questions,
but we have this many questions left unanswered. Um and you never know. I mean, maybe when we get all the way through the vetting of the feasibility study, you might maybe people say maybe the sports complex isn't quite the right answer. Maybe something else pops out as as a good answer, but I think there's enough strong indications that a sports
complex could be valuable, could draw that economic driver that it's worth uh continuing vetting that out. And that's what um seems to be where we're heading. >> Yep. >> Madam Chair, may I ask a question? >> Yes. >> Um I I haven't watched I stopped watching the select board when we got to
the recreation presentation just because I ran out of time. So I just wanted to know was there any discussion about how waste our our wastewater plan interfaces with any of these proposals? >> One of the things BSC group's going to
look at is how might we get sewer to to the to the site. My understanding from Bob Writtenower is that getting sewer to that site would be kind of a separate spur project done via some type different types of grants, not necessarily part of phase two of our
municipal project. Wamp wamp. Okay. >> Anything else on on the muck? Any questions? >> I apologize, Madam Chair. I am sorry to hear that. That's I'll say that officially. >> You might want to have conversations with Bob, but I had mentioned
>> No, no, it's not not about Bob. I'm just saying that that that trying to >> trying to integrate this work is literally the difference between whether it will be successful or not and whether anybody will want after
18 more months of talking and planning and proposing whether anybody will want to invest one single penny in any of these ideas. And so that's that's the needle we're trying to thread and I really hope it gets threaded.
>> I did relay I know that you had mentioned that um and that's when Bob had indicated he really felt that there's grants out there to get >> I'm sure he will this isn't a judgment about his efforts. It's just threading the needle. Not to mention the school project part
of it all which has another two and a half years before a preferred solution is even on the table. >> Forget about the location of what that preferred solution is. >> I was surprised at the number of days. I didn't realize it was a 900 and something day >> feasibility study. >> It is >> 900 days.
>> 900 days. >> It's all prescribed by our friends at MSBA. >> Oh wow. Well, in some ways, because the muck has been in the muck, respectfully, um it may actually help in the sense that nothing is uh going to be
determined about the location of the school, much less should we actually build one >> uh for a while. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Moving on. Uh many meeting minutes. Uh may I have a motion to approve our minutes for January 7th,
2026? >> So moved. Second. Any discussion? All in favor? >> I. >> May I have a motion to approve our meeting minutes from January 21st, 2026? >> So moved. >> Second.
>> Any discussion? >> In favor? >> I just did. >> I I knew that I had marked something a few days ago. On page 405 of January 21st, the upcoming meetings today
is February 4th, not January 4th. That was the only error I noticed. >> Good deal. >> Good catch. >> As amended. >> Madam Chair, I will abstain since I wasn't there. But I did watch the video. >> No, you can vote.
>> I don't I don't feel I just don't feel >> All right. >> All right. One abstension. >> Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Deedra. Uh committee updates, >> Madam Chair, I'll jump in. We had >> start in Mr. Smith. Thank you.
>> On um on wastewater, we had our meeting on Monday. Um slow the weather slowed things down a little bit as we can all imagine, but they're still making good progress. The site for the actual sewage treatment plant, um they're actually
pouring concrete. They stopped in this bitter cold, but they're about a week behind where they anticipated being, but they're actually pouring footings and pouring slabs now. So, it's starting to come out of the ground, which is impressive. >> That's great. >> Um, contract two, the work of the pump
station near the Pancake Man. I don't know if anybody's noticed it, but there's an actual building there now. >> Um, that was set in place on January 29th in the bitter cold roof is on now. Uh there's about a month's worth of work in that building to get everything set
up and the piping tied in and all that, but it's it's headed in the right direction. Uh the one of the biggest most exciting news to me is contract three. Ravoli will be returning work on Southshore Drive
>> and um side streets along with a um service crew. for the Brack bringing in five crews next Monday to start restart the work down there. The one piece that was the hang up to get them back working again is they are required to bring in a
safety consultant. >> Yeah. >> To continue that work. U but it's great news that they're moving ahead. Contract four. Work on contract four is complete and work on contract five which is route 28 from Parker's River to Higgins Crawl
Road. Uh work is resumed. Um it's kind of been on and off with the the cold weather because they're required to close up the hole every day by mass dot. >> Um so that god forbid we get snow. They have they're able to plow it. Um so they can only do work when it's a little bit
warmer. So they were out there working today for example. But some of these bitter cold days, they can't work. So, progress is moving along. Let see if I missed anything. Um, oh, and they're actually putting in uh I forgot what they call it now, but it's a lateral
going over to the plant uh which is cutting across the cranberry bog that you see on West Jamoth Road on the southerntherly side, which would actually be on. So, coming from 28, it's the first bog you come to the right. those two big bogs on
the far end of it where town owned land is they came down Joshua Baker and now they're cutting across through the woods right there to come over to the plant with the high highpressure mane that's what it is a huge pipe um they're laying that um as we speak um so there's been
quite a bit of progress even with this really bad winter we've been having >> that's great >> so it's great to see >> great news thank you >> Mr. Mr. >> Yes, Madam Chair. Uh the school building committee met on January 15th, and the good news is that the um MSBA is
supposed to officially accept the feasibility study that got voted on and approved um at the end of this month. So, the 900 days continue to tick away, but we have another meeting uh next
Thursday and um we continue to poke along. The next thing will be to hire what's called an OPM, an owner's project manager. And um with those folks, we'll start working on um all the different options. Everything from let's build the
biggest most expensive school we can to doing nothing. So, and everything in between. And that's what the next year and a half. >> And how much? >> Maybe two years. >> How much? >> Don't know. >> How much money it will cost? Oh, we don't know. >> No, no, but how much for the consultant? Oh, it's up to a million and a half, but
but in historically >> state funded, >> uh, do they reimburse for that? >> I believe they reimburse at whatever the rate is, which is around 53 or%. >> Oh, okay. >> Somewhere. >> So, is is the balance going to have to be or we already voted on that at time
>> the vote the the money that was voted was no more than a million and a half and there are many times where towns don't even spend >> that. >> Yeah. So it can't be more than that and some and it will be reimbursed and it may not be that much >> y >> or as much I should say. Um so yeah
that's where we are. >> So there's nothing going to be on town annual town meeting with regard to this. >> No >> I don't think there's any need to >> okay >> I don't believe so. No I would say in 208
maybe 29. Um I I have only uh one. It's a comment. It's not a a committee report because I haven't we haven't had any meetings. Uh but I I noticed that zoning board of appeals are friends from Blue Sky. You you weren't involved in this. >> Is next Thursday.
>> What the tower? >> Yeah. >> On the same location. >> Yeah. >> It was remanded back to the zoning board of appeals by the >> by the court. >> I don't I still don't really know what that means. >> I don't really know what that means. >> We We were here. No, I know. But no, no, what remand? It was remanded by the
court back and what is what was the actual what was the supposed to rehear it basically? >> Is that what they >> But when they remand it, they have to give them a set of instructions, right? >> A set of instructions, right? >> Interesting. >> All right. So, when the agenda comes out, >> go to the address, you can see where the
you can look at the district. >> Yeah, it's on the >> Yeah, it's it's on laser fe. >> Can I ask a question? What is blue sky? Yeah, >> it's a monopole 110 ft high that uh this group blue sky
entered into a long-term lease >> with the arch dasis of uh Fall River >> and it's next to Our Lady of the Highway. It's essentially between the church, our lady of the highway and the pancake man
>> or the pump station. >> The pump station. Sorry. The pump station. Well, either one will be a landmark >> 110. >> Yeah. And we went through several >> 11 stories. >> We went through several months of conversation about it here. >> Right, Madam Chair? We presented
>> We tried >> so hard. >> The ZBA. >> Is this similar to a cell town? >> It is a cell. Yeah. A monopole. >> Monopole. Okay. Thank you. >> Um, sorry about that. I should have said that at the beginning. I didn't mean to.
I apologize for that. Don't mind that. >> Um I know you're good at that. >> That's all I have. Uh dear, >> we haven't had any housing meetings, so I have nothing to report.
>> I'll do LBC, the library building committee since Susan's not here. Um we did we had originally thought we would get a second estimate for the construction of the library through the OPM. Initially it was turned down but
since yesterday apparently the town administrator has agreed and some other folks that the OPM is now going to go out and get a second estimate as long along with our architect's estimate and then those two estimates those two estimators will get together and we'll come out with a a more you know an
actual clear price and that's all going to be done by the end of this month or the first week of March. Um, we're also doing a lot of out we're starting be to do our outreach into the community uh to get more information out about the new
library >> because that will be on the April >> that will be on the April. It's yes meeting we'll know the exact cost >> of the library for we're meeting with the fin we're meeting with fin on March 18th and we're meeting with select board
on March 24th I believe. So we'll go back to them. So that's where we are. And as with capital, I have not yet to sit in a meeting because my appointment start. >> Yeah. Um yeah, Sandy is ill right at the
moment >> and um so the meeting that was supposed to happen this week was cancelled. Uh we do have a meeting on March 23rd hopefully. Um and then we No, excuse me. February 23rd. I apologize. February 23rd, I
believe it is. And then a select board meeting in March. I'm not sure the date yet. I'll keep you posted, Tom. Um I'm not sure the extent of Sy's situation, so >> know and she's been remote for the
library building committee. So, >> yeah. >> Okay. Uh staff updates. Kath. Um, I did make the request to the Cape Cod Commission for certification of our LCP and that has been scheduled for
March 5th at 3 p.m. whether it would be in person or remote. They're still working on that. I'm going to confirm that with Chloe tomorrow. So, that'll be a nice victory lap for us. Um, so everyone could come. I know that Joanne wanted I think you wanted to say some a few words as well. Uh, and I'll
certainly let the select board and the town administration know that that's the date in case they want to participate in any way. Um, and then the other thing that I wanted to talk about is we had done a lot of great work and gotten a lot of good information on our zoning from our mixed use studies that we had done and I'd like to move forward and
see if we can't um put together some some money in order to continue with that uh investigation especially regarding our design standards. Uh we have about $20,000 left over from previous allocations for visioning and the local comprehensive plan. Um
originally as part of the mixed um use study, the affordable housing trust had indicated they'd be willing to contribute $25,000 towards that as part of that community planning grant. Um I'd like to send them a memo asking for them to still contribute $25,000 for us to
continue uh with the efforts uh on that. And then I'd also talked to Megan Eldridge, director of community development. And if we're going to start looking at things about u making the permitting process easier and that type of thing, there might be some tourism revenue preservation fund money that would be available to do that. So if we
get together 65 $70,000, that's a good RFP to put out for someone to continue to help um us on these things. I know that Horesley Whitten had helped us before um BSC Group. Unfortunately Jeff's not there anymore. Um just kind
of um it's It's tough, but um Heather's been doing a great job with the muck and everything. Uh so we certainly have some people who would be I know would be interested in helping us out with that, but I think maybe we now need to look at those suggestions or recommendations very closely and get more into the
nitty-gritty about what we would like to change and and edit. Um I feel our design standards and the site and architectural design standards are too ambiguous in some ways and then the ones in the VCO OD are way too specific. So, I think we need to balance that out a
little bit. So, so I just wanted to let you guys know that I'm going to be on kind of looking for some money. So, as you cobble together these this funding, Kath, um you think it'll be enough to um accomplish and getting a a a contractor
uh that can >> I think $70,000 is a is a decent amount of money, especially because it's a continuation and you get if one of the same firms were to to apply obviously they can hit the ground running. They don't have to do a lot of background. They've already done a lot of the
analysis. Um, so I think it's a good chunk and of course, you know, it's an iterative process and we may need to find some additional funding. Um, we may also want to be looking at a um a community planning grant, you know, about maybe maybe taking some things a
little bit further. Those things typically even if we apply for it, we wouldn't know about it until the fall and then they could be one or two year grants in order to do that. So it might be good to setelves. >> Who do we apply for? >> It's that one stop. Oh, >> state. Yeah. Okay.
>> Um, and there's letters of interest, I believe, are due in in March. And that's something the town staff needs to get together and kind of see what what do we want to throw out there. It's nice that they do that because then they say, "Oh, of all the different things at the onetop, this works for this one." And go over here for this grant and this and so
they kind of direct you to the right place where they think that your project would fit the best. >> Um, >> meaning which which department and where the money comes from. >> Which grant? Yeah. >> Yeah. to basically be looking for. Um, and I already talked about seasonal communities and as Joanne mentioned, um,
we gave the presentation at the housing or of the hazard mitigation plan last night to the select board and they, um, voted to have us send it off to MIMA and FEMA for approval. So, that was exciting. >> 10 o'clock at night.
>> It was worth the wait because it was something we needed to get going. >> Okay. uh upcoming meetings uh again February 18th uh and then February 24th would be with the select board.
>> I am going to post that. >> Okay. >> Um because I I think that's something that you guys might want to have some discussions and talk and you know maybe in quorum um as well. >> Madam Chair, unfortunately I will not be here on the 18th at school vacation week. Um and on the 24th
if I'm not able to attend I might email something to Kathy. I'm not sure yet. >> Okay. >> That night. >> All right. >> Thursday night. >> It's a Thursday. >> Oh, the 24th is a Tuesday. >> Tuesday is a Tuesday. Tuesday. >> Um
uh especially on the 18th quorum will be important because uh I may not be available. Um and if I could uh and if you're not going to be here, Mr. Smith, if you could um chair the meeting if we need to do that. We might not need to.
Um but uh we may have to >> um so uh that's good to know and we will need you know obviously we'll need uh quorum um if if uh if that's necessary. So um adjournment.
May I have a mo motion to adjurnn? >> So move silent. >> All in favor? >> I >> that's usually not silent. That's usually Moving stock.