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Recording in progress. >> Wait, this is just >> Good evening and welcome to the June 3rd, 2026 Yarmouth Planning Board meeting. I am Jory Crowley, chair. Uh the public is welcome to attend in person in person this evening or via

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alternative public access provided in the notice of meeting available on the town of Yarmmouth website. I would like to uh call roll call. Susan Brida >> present. >> Dear Gwen >> present. >> Tom Bendleton >> present. >> Will Rubenstein >> present.

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>> Peter Slobec >> here. >> Ken Smith and Joanne Carly present. Seeing that we have a quorum I'll now call the meeting to order. And I would ask you to join me in the pledge of >> allegiance to the flag >> of the United States of America and to

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the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Thank you. The uh first item on our agenda this evening uh is our ongoing discussion

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with regard to short-term rentals and uh some uh amendments we might want to consider as well as consideration of a preparation of a general bylaw to move it off of off of our books and move it

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to the general bylaws. So Kathy has uh prepared in our packets this evening. She has provided us with um this short-term rental bylaws for Sandwich, Barnstable, Mashp, Provincetown, Truro,

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Wellfleet, Brewster, Dennis, and East. Uh she's also provided us with some correspondence from our building commissioner, Mark Grills, with some questions that we raised at our May 20th meeting. Um, we also have comments uh

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from our last meeting from Miss Gayquin uh from Miss Britta, Mr. Pendleton and myself and additional email correspondents among staff with Don Palea who is joining us this evening uh

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uh remotely. Uh welcome uh who has uh uh provided some suggested Redline edits um based on the Falmouth STR article. Uh Kathy provided us a draft number two this afternoon. Kath I think everybody

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has that now. Um, so is that the best place to start, do you think? >> I think so. >> So why don't we go through what we have on draft number two? Kath, I'll leave it to you. >> Sure. It's up on the screen so that everyone can see it. Uh, and people hopefully uh at home will be showing the

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screen so that they can see the edits that we're making. Um, some of them are relatively simple and as Joanne mentioned that even though I'm kind of making the edits to our zoning bylaw, this I think ultimately needs to be converted into a general bylaw. What will end up remaining in the zoning bylaw will be the allowing of the use.

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So we'll still have the use table in there and then we'll have a note that says something like, you know, it is by right if it meets the criteria outlined in general bylaw chapter bippy papy boo and then we'll have a um a definition within the zoning bylaw. Can we just go through for one minute Kathy the ones

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that you sent us for the other towns they are all general bylaws? >> Yes. Um, Miss Ba, uh, Kathy, could just quickly, what is the benefit of being in general bylaws as opposed to zoning? I always get confused with that. >> Well, what is the what is the benefit of

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moving into the general bylaw section? >> There's a couple things. One of them is general bylaw is a majority vote at town meeting. It's not a a super a two-thirds vote. Um, and also that has some um there's some chapter 48 grandfathering requirements when you put things in the zoning bylaw. our sunset clause

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specifically said um you know you can do this now but it lapses at the end of the sunset so they're not creating any grandfathering but my understanding from my conversations or emails back and forth with town council is that the general bylaw is not grandfathered because it doesn't fall under 40A so those are all things that we would need

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to confirm with town council and um I think one of the things I want to do is have an actual Zoom meeting with them um in order to kind of go over some stuff with Mark Grills and kind of ask some questions and get get them answered but I want to get to a certain point with you guys first uh the details of it and then we can kind of get to the

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nitty-gritty of the legalities of it um as we move forward. >> So I I am recommending that we change it to the provisions to the general bylaw from the last meeting. Um anything that uh is in red is obviously new. Anything that's highlighted in yellow is new from

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the draft one just to kind of give you guys an idea of um what's been added since the last meeting. Um, so at the last meeting, we were really interested in emphasizing that the purpose was also to protect and preserve year-round housing stock as well as trying to inhibit the commercialization of housing

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for use as short-term rentals. Uh, in the purpose itself, we added a couple definitions because we wanted to go into detail with regard to setting some types of limits on how many um short-term rentals that c that an an individual owner can register. So, we have a

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definition of an owner, and this is the definition is pretty consistent throughout all of the different general bylaws from the different communities, but it's also relatively broad, just so you understand. It's not something that's just like it's a homeowner or homeowner's wife or homeowner and a relative or a friend. It's it can be um

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other things with regard to um you know, people. It could be an agent or a trustee or or it could be an LLC uh or or even a trust like someone has a revocable trust. Kathy, is marital unit a defined term? A legally defined term? >> Not

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>> I think it is, but I'm not sure where it is. >> I think it was done. So, it's it I think it is. I mean, I think we all know what we're talking about. It's some type of >> I just want to make sure that we're if we're using the term and someone says, you know, I meet that definition. They really don't. We we have some legal

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definition of marital unit. I think that all derived from like medical, you know, people trying to help someone in the hospital. So, I think it is defined. I just want to make sure it is. And then a group of people um if it's a group of people, is there someone it has to be identified as like the lead person in

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case problems come up or um a group of people? You're right. It's extremely broad, but who would you hold responsible if a >> It would go to everyone um >> in the group. >> In the group. Okay. Right. But probably

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when you register you'll have someone who's registered an individual identified as an emergency contact and that type of thing. >> All right. >> So if Joanne and her two sisters, for example, were to have it, they probably if there was a violation, for example, it would go to

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>> both of them. >> Well, it would go to whatever the address is at the assessors. It again goes to I think not being a lawyer, an attorney um and having spent some time in New York, a a domestic

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partnership maybe is what uh it's called in New York. I don't know what it's called here. Um uh but uh we again this will fall into the hands of our town council, I think. >> Good. Okay. And then there's just a definition of an

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operator and that's really the person um or I guess entity that is responsible uh for the day-to-day operations and that's the person who might be the emergency contact. Uh the owner can also be the emergency contact if they're available um 24 hours during the >> Madam Chair. May I just make just a

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quick English thing under operator. In the first sentence it says local 24-hour emergency contact person. In the second sentence it says provided they're available 24 hours. It's just a funky little English thing. It should be 24 hours a day. In other words, it would leave open the interpretation of I could

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be available 24 hours of the short-term rental period. And I know that sounds silly, but let's not. This is the reason why we have these meetings. >> That's why I learned how to diagram sentences from Sister Mary Joseph. >> Okay. Well, yes. Um, also, I just happened to notice on the Zoom that

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we've all been we've all been promoted. We've all been elected to Barnesville County Commissioners. And I say that with peace and love for whoever the nice person in the back is. Because it said Barnesville County Commissioners meeting. I was like, whoa, we've all been elected. >> Yeah, Liam, we need to be sure it says planning board. >> It's all good. I just want

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>> All of us have replaced Mark. >> I mean, >> as well as the other two. There's only three of them, right? >> There's only three of them. >> It takes six of us to replace Anyway, >> Mark, >> I say that again with peace and love just in for the for the purposes of posterity. We are not the Barnes County Commissioners.

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>> I think it's probably a good idea um as I go through the changes to to pepper in. So, if anybody has any questions, I think that would be the easiest way to do it. >> Okay. Um, so I don't know if anyone has anything so far other than what's been said or so. Moving to the next page, one of the other things that everyone keeps talking

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about is time share fractional and interval ownership units. Um, I'm not really sure what the fear is about that because we have a lot of time shares uh in the town of Yarmouth, but they're all licensed as lodging units. they're not

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even thinking about lodging as short-term rentals. Um, so I put a question mark there because I really don't know whether we we need to go through and have this weird odd definition which and if somebody said to me, why do we have it in here? I don't know whether I would be able to come up with a good reason.

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>> Well, what's funny is for some of us olds around here, time share is the original short-term rental. >> Yes, >> in some ways. And I think some of that is >> a generational thing because literally what is a time share? It is a short-term rental, but it is not necessarily in the

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modern parliament anymore. And I don't I'll defer to the wisdom of the board about how we treat the concept of time share versus the other concepts that we're now dealing with in 2026. I don't know if >> I don't even know what fractional

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>> interval ownership units are. >> I think it was Felmouth and maybe Peter, you can you can help us here. >> Um, but I think it was the Felmouth Bible. that went into wayed way deep into this definition. Um, and I don't I

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don't I look to you, Peter. I I don't think we really need to >> unless you know >> I'm not sure I'm not sure where the concern would be for us. Other towns, I know Chadam had some concern. You started to see it a bit there where you could take a very nice property and

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divide it into quarter shares, you know, so four people could buy into the property >> and use it for a specific period of time. >> Yeah. You could take a million dollar house, everybody pays a million and you you you get a quarter share or, you know, 25% of a 52- week period and break

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it up, >> you know. So, I know there was some concern about that. >> Then it's a house, so you'd be able to short-term rental it. I suppose you could shortterm your if you were one of those quarter and I I just picked quarter shares. Could be fifths, could be half, whatever.

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>> All four people on the deed when they make that purchase. >> I I think so. Uh no, I I don't know how legally how it was divided. >> That's the question. How is it legally designated? If they all on the deed, then >> if I may, Mr. Pelton, your mic. >> Yeah.

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If they're all on the It would make a difference if they're all on a deed or they all have a separate deed. How would that work? >> There's there's don't know maybe there's an LLC behind it too that that's developed as part of the ownership >> because I think with a typical time

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share, let's say it's owned by XYZ corporation and they sell 52- week time share one week to 52 individuals. They don't those individuals only have access to that week. They don't have ownership of that property. >> So basically

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>> this would be a little bit different because those four people would actually have some sort of ownership in that property. >> And I think I've seen them advertised I have this twoe period for rent. And so I

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think that it it can be individually seen as a short-term rental by some people. But it seems too complex >> like a motel is a short-term rental. >> What is a fractional? What is fractional ownership and what is interal ownership?

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>> I don't mean the same thing. I mean fractional is obviously a portion of some some ownership. You don't own 100%. You own portion of that 100% of that. >> It's all based on the idea of a portion of a larger Yeah. It might have been a means to to sort of condo a you know a

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$5 million house in Chadam into four pieces that you couldn't otherwise condo. >> So if you look at it in that sense maybe that was >> the means behind it. >> I think it does make sense to leave them out. >> That's what we're I just wanted to bring.

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>> Well that's what this Yeah, it's under ineligible units. >> We could >> I also I also I mean I guess I don't know. I mean, we're we're probably going to hear some more feedback from in other places whether whether we're actually we're picking, you know, too too fine a

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with too fine a comb, >> you know, or not. >> Well, in a typical real actual time share, you would report to the time share who who actually >> who the XYZ corporation owns that time share. So, they would be the responsible

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people for that time share. Quarter share house like Pete's talking about is I think you'd have it's totally different. I think they wouldn't. You can't leave them out. >> Okay. >> I don't think because you could have

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serious problems if four people own a house and one of that one of those groups of people rent to whomever >> and becomes a short-term renter. >> Becomes a short-term rental and you could have a problem. Or

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the other side of that is that four people buy a $2 million home on Great Island. And their rights as property owners, they should be able to rent if they want

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to do a short-term rental. >> They they they should be able >> They should have to They'd have to register with the town to do that. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, do doing all the right things. Doing all the right things. Going through the board of health and everything else. >> Okay. >> Um, as long as they go through the proper registration and

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>> regulatory requirements as a property owner. Um, there they they clearly are not here as a permanent resident >> because they're here fractionally, if I can use that word. but they own a

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beautiful two or3 million dollar home on Great Island and maybe want some return on their investment and we we'd like that they pay their property taxes. I don't want to I I don't necessarily think that we want to restrict

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that from a short-term rental. I'm not sure, but I would like to hear what the public has to say. >> Yeah. Some of these associations >> I'd like to hear what the public has to say. Some of the associations don't let you rent. >> Oh, that's correct. >> Some of them don't let you rent and ones that used to let you rent now are rolling that stuff back because of all

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these variances of use of the property. >> Um, >> can't we add that under the section then? >> No, I don't I don't know. I don't know. I really although you know the Don report said this town does not have a serious problem with corporate. That of course that's different. >> Yeah.

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>> It doesn't have a serious problem with >> and I know exactly what Peter's talking about in Chattam. Yeah. >> Um because I'm I'm out there one day a week and I'm familiar with it. But um >> it's it's a different issue with prop with property that is that valuable.

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>> Unfortunately, I don't think we're in the same category as Chadam, >> but I think part of this interval ownership thing is a lot of the motel that have converted to condo and they the they will rent out the individual

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units as motel rooms. So that doesn't belong in this. >> Yeah. I I guess the definition of interval is important. Dearra, I think I don't I don't again town council will help us with this. I'm not sure what the definition is of

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>> Yeah. The difference between time share and interval, >> right? Yeah, >> Madam Chair, if it's helpful. We do have a hand raised from Don. Is that is this the right time? >> No, sure. Please join the conversation. Mr. I believe interval is when you own it for a certain set period of time. Your

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interval might be the first two weeks of July >> versus fractional ownership where four people own the property. >> Well, thank you. >> And I and I and I think it would be worth it to leave it in because you have no idea what's going to develop down the

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road. Look at what has happened. What Mr. grills was started there I believe in 2012 and the letter in the agenda says she was told to just leave it alone. Well, since 2012 to 2026,

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things have changed. I mean, we've got more more rental sites online than I can count and remember. Those weren't there in 2012. And if and if a time share company has empty rooms because they have empty

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rooms because people are bailing on time shares and they start advertising these things. You can't stop them because you took it out of the bylaws. So I think you're I think you're better off leaving it in. If you want to take fractional out that makes sense. I understand that.

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But that's that's how I feel. >> Yeah. Thank you for that clarification. And again, we will check back with town council on the uh on the exact meaning of that, right, Kath? At some point. >> Yeah, I I I do think like, you know, the interval, that's time share. That's what

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a time share is. So, you may say it call it interval. It's just another word for for a time share. And everything that's a time share um type of ownership, it's all done through like a the motel. I don't think the individual people are No, they all

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have to do it through the motel. Would it help if we if we added some more definitions in the section before this? >> Well, that's that's the question and that's why it's highlighted in gray. That's where the definition would be for time share fractional interval ownership unit.

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>> Um, right above the ineligible units that >> Oh, you do have that. I'm sorry. I >> They're both gray because it was >> We will have definitions above. >> Yes. But the, you know, the definition that seems to be consistent is uh Felmouth and Province Town have the same exact definition. It just happens to be

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broken down slightly different, but it's the same definition. Um, and and it's quite lengthy. >> Yeah. >> It goes It went on for a few pages. >> Yeah. Okay. Consists of two or more of the following elements. co-ownership or

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fractional or divided estate, shares, lease holds or members, maximum or minimum day limits on each interest, centralized or professional management uh and management agreements or fees reflective interval use of the ownership irrespective of whether the agreement and then reservation system. So, this

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sounds to me like what's happening regularly um at, you know, the Cove, you know, Colonial Acres. I mean, there's a there's like six the Pier 7. All of those things are happening, but they're happening through a managed time shares, and they're doing it as motel.

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>> And East Ham also has a pretty detailed one, >> right? >> And Province Town has >> similar Province Town has got a more abridged one, but it still it's got some detail. It's they're saying they just fel just broke it down into like a b cde e and then um

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>> east. >> Yeah. So it's certainly something that we can we can add in. I mean it can't hurt per se. I just am not clear if we were to be asked questions at town meeting as to this is not keeping it in. This would be putting it in. So it's a

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little bit different um why why we're putting it in. We just need to have a clear understanding of why we feel that's beneficial. That's all. >> Okay. >> Right. But the reason the the reason to to have these definitions is because we've just spent the last 10 minutes trying to educate each other exactly what the definitions of these three

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different concepts are. >> So >> ultimately it's healthy exercise even though it's not you know the sausage is being made. You know it's not the most exercise that we're get in front of the wave. As as the citizen pointed out you know 12 years ago none of this was even >> right

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>> discussed and now all of a sudden it's thinking about putting it into a bylaw. the industry changes all the time. >> So, Madam Chair, are we saying then 418.3 number six or what are we keeping in this section and what are we taking? >> I think what we would do is we would add

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the definition under 418.2 of what that is and probably stealing a lot of the language from others and getting from town council. >> Uh, and then we would keep in an ineligible unit saying they're not they're not eligible. >> Yeah. I I think the the approach and we've used this approach before I think

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when we're doing zoning amendments try to have it be broader rather than constricting and let the public tell us what they don't like about it. I I I think that is a starting point that

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we've I think the way this board has worked in the past. >> Um and >> uh it's easy I think it's easier to it'll be easier for us to take things out. >> Sure. >> Once we hear from the public and once we get once we get a feel for it.

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>> That's true. In the pro we're still in the process and we're going to be in the process for another couple months. >> Let's let's not leave it out. >> Understood. Let's give them the buffet and let them pick from the buffet >> or suggest what they're going to put on their tray. >> Right. Right. Exactly. >> Can I ask a follow-up question on number seven, Madam Chair?

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>> You may. >> The word environmental just caught me only because >> Where are you? >> Sorry. 418.3 number seven. Right below the dwelling units uh time share. Oh, yeah. The only reason I just wrote conservation there, Kathy, only because most people in our town think of the

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conservation commission. And I'm not saying environmental isn't a clear word. Maybe it >> was meant to be a violation of of any type of environmental law. >> Mainly the conservation commission. I don't have a problem putting >> I'm just talking about just every town has its jargon. And I think when people

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see that, I would just rather them >> understand like, oh, there's a very clear line. Like if I'm in a health department violation, it's a health department. If I'm in a conservation violation, it's because it's conservation. >> I don't know. I just again, this is the period of time where we can parse this stuff a little. I just

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>> if and if everyone else disagrees then we'll just leave it environmental. >> I think that's a good suggestion. I think that's a good point. >> Incorporates environmental. >> It's also broader, right? Because I would say >> Sure. >> Okay. >> And it's a more familiar term. >> I just think in our town it is. In other towns, it would maybe be different.

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>> No, I think that's a good suggestion. >> Um maybe we can just go through the ineligible units. Um >> same as last time we had the accessory apartments, but then we added in the accessory dwelling units and protected use. But the the third one I added in, I'm interested to see what town council has to say with this. The whole idea of

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accessory dwelling units was that somebody would build one and they would rent it out to somebody who's living here year round, not to build one so that they can move into it and then short-term rental their house. Um, so this is trying to say that if you if you have an accessory apartment or

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accessory dwelling unit or protected use one um on your property, then you can't rent out any dwelling unit as a short-term rental. So, if you you've made your decision, you've made your decision that you want an accessory dwelling unit >> and then you get we had that in the

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accessory dwelling unit uh bylaw, which I don't know whether we can keep it in, >> but it was basically saying if you have an accessory >> unit, you can't short-term rental >> uh in any form. >> Yes. Your main house. Because we didn't want to just create two rental units on

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a property. We wanted to solve solve the problem. or they could just rent it to somebody and then rent that and now you have a business going on and that's not what we were looking for. So I think if we can keep this in saying that if you already have one of these on your property, you've taken your bite out of the apple, you don't get another bite out of the apple by being able to

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short-term rental. >> You're going to get some push back from people in town because that does that does occur. I mean, >> oh yeah, especially in the summer. Especially in the summer, they'll they'll have a main house and an ADU and they'll move into the or >> whatever it might be. And then they'll

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rent out the main house >> mainly usually because it's bigger. >> It's big. >> Yeah. >> So, you you're going to get push back from some people in the community, but that's okay. I mean, that's what we're here to hear. >> I don't know if it's legal. Um, but that's that's my thinking is the

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whole point is we're trying to we were like willing to, you know, expand our density before when we went to the accessory apartments, but we wanted it to solve a problem. Yes. Not create create a problem and then create just a bunch of rental thing, duplexes in a sense, uh, in our residential

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neighborhood. So, I think it it's in in um line with what our concerns were and trying to keep those concerns. Um so and then um and then we just I added uh with regard to limiting um is not dwelling units owned by CC corporations, S

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corporations. Um and again I don't know all these legal terms either that need to be rerun by but this is some language from other communities, a nominee trust, a partnership, a real estate investment trust or any similar entity that is engaged primarily in investment activity. As Susan mentioned, I don't

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think that's really prevalent right now, but this is something to kind of put things a little bit in check uh as we go forward. Um, as we just discussed, I will leave in dwelling units with time share fractional interval ownership and then I'll change environmental to conservation.

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>> Can I just make one question back to number three? Use of the phrase protected use accessory dwelling unit. My understanding is that phrase is used only and I've only seen it in the definition of seasonal community. Does

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that open any kind of >> Well, there's a whole that's the whole regulations that was the whole um affordable homes act where they basically said all that hard work that we did on our >> nice try but okay. So it's not just limited to seasonal community. >> No no that's a whole term unto itself

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that's by right. Where would the definition for accessory apartment be? If not in this section, would it be somewhere else that we could refer someone to? >> You know, I I don't know. I mean, it's is it's clear what an accessory

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department is to most people or to us, I suppose. But >> at some point, how many definitions do you need to do? What's the definition of the word? You know, you know, a simple word. I mean, at some point, we got to assume that there's a certain amount. There is an accessory apartment

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definition in the zoning bylaw. Maybe we simply say as defined in the zoning bylaw, >> at least so someone can go or at least look it up if they want to. >> As long as it exists, I I can't remember. Some by >> reference it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Maybe added to the zoning bylaw because I don't I know we don't have

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protected use. Um, and we have accessory apartment, not accessory dwelling unit, although I think we say that the same thing. >> And we will be visiting that subject >> to change our accessory apartment bylaw to something else based on the new laws

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>> of the Commonwealth. Madam >> Chair, how would you like to handle um hands up? >> Oh, hands up. Yes, I'm glad you're paying attention. Sure. No, no, as we go. As we go, Mr. Floyer, >> thank you. Uh, how did you let this guy on the board with a Baltimore Orio

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shirt? He could be a Red Sox guy. >> There's actually two of us. So, one is a little more clandestine. So, um it was it was pointed out to me during the discussion and an acquaintance of mine that is

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watching the um proceedings texted me they own a week at the cove and she is and they are allowed to rent it out if they don't use it and they do not have to go through the company to rent it out. They can advertise it as they see fit.

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We would like in theory we would like those people to register the fact that they're doing it or I mean or we >> Well, that's a time share, is it not? >> That's a time share. >> There's a there's an on there's an onsite, you know, >> right? >> Management system. >> Accountability,

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>> right? Accountability there. Right. >> I see what you mean. >> So, she can rent it out on her own. She doesn't need to go. >> Yeah. >> Maybe because it's less than 14 days, you don't need a permit. Is that >> It's not a short-term rental. It's not short-term. >> It's you. It's a It's a motel. It's

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That's how they're licensed and that's how they're they're regulated. They're not regulated as short-term >> in a neighborhood. >> Right. >> Right. They have their own inspection requirements for motel. Um >> Roger. >> And certificates and all that. >> Thank you. >> Thank you.

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>> Okay. >> Moving on. Kath registration inspections. >> Yeah. The the first one is just a little bit of a clarification after talking to Mark. Um just wanted to kind of separate that a little bit and just say short-term rentals need to be registered annually with the health department

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based on chapter 108 and they need to be and shall be inspected uh annually by the building commissioner or his or her designate. And like last meeting I had said that he has they've trained and they've he designated um one of the health um housing people to be able to

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go and do that for them. So they're not double dipping on there. And I think also that Mark had provided uh in his email with regard to that fire doesn't doesn't do that inspection, right? >> Um and maybe it's a different type of use that Ken's talking about whether it's nursing home or assisted living.

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That might be something where fire does need to come out. They probably have a fire alarm system. You know, you don't have those necessarily in in an individual house, but um the housing inspectors do look at the smoke detectors and that type of thing. Um, so that was just clarifying that up

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a little bit and cleaning that language up. Um, just clarifying that all certificates expire on December 31st of each year so that people understand that even if you apply for one in June 1st, you don't get till June 1st of the following year, it expires at the end. Um, and this was something that Don

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mentioned about um, having t the town issued certificate of registration and inspection numbers included on the listing offerings um, for the short-term rental. I think it's a great idea. I don't know how you can ensure that it gets done, but it would be easier for for people to kind of look and say, "Oh,

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wait. Yeah, there's the registration numbers. They are registered with the town." It would be perfect if people actually did do that. It'd be very helpful. Um, so that's why that that was an addition that was put in there. >> I don't know if anybody had any question. >> Any questions on on those? Okay.

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Limitations, Kath number. >> Yeah, this is just the one. The definition of an owner also includes an LLC. So, it just says no owner shall register more than and I picked two dwelling units as short-term rentals in the town of Yarmouth. Um, some of the other communities, some have three, but

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uh, several of them have two as well, down to two. >> And we'll again, I think we'll wait to hear from the public about whether that we we've hit the bullseye on that. >> Um, and then moving on to the general

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provisions. Um, Don did have another good suggestion with regard to identifying when you can't park as a short-term rental because somebody say, "I was there till 4:00 in the morning, but I didn't park all night, so I'm fine." Um, so maybe setting a time limit on that, whether it's 11 to 7 because

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those have I just picked those because they're quiet hours. Those are something it's highlighted in gray for future for further discussion. >> My brain didn't understand this part. So, I understand there's no parking in law on lawns. No overnight street

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parking. No street parking that impedes traffic. Overnight parking ban. >> Yeah, you can't. If you want to have a short-term rental, you can't park on the street overnight. It says it up above. No. >> Why are we saying it again? I guess >> they're just defining the hours that it's considered overnight. Maybe we put

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it somewhere. No overnight street parking from 11:00 p.m. to 7. I think if you if you put that in the sentence where you're already talking about it. When I saw it, I was like, >> are we talking about a new thing or are we talking about a different thing? >> That's a good idea. >> Combine the two sentences.

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>> Yeah. No overnight street parking. >> I just think that Sorry, that helped. That helps. Great. Now I get it because then I was thinking, wait, you're letting them rent, but you're not letting them park. >> But what you're saying is not on the street. >> Correct. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Nope. That sounds great.

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Um, we kept in the duration for two consecutive nights. Again, a lot of these things are really hard to enforce. So, the more things we put in here, it's it's good if you have a problem property that you can point to, as I mentioned before, and say, "Oh, you're not meeting this, you're not meeting this, you're not meeting this." And maybe that gets into the suspension of certificates

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later down the line, but we're not going to necessarily do check and make sure everyone is doing a minimum of of two nights. Uh if you see someone every single night, you probably we will hear from it from the neighbors like they're turning over every single day. What's going on over here? Um uh the occupancy

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um this was another thing that was I think this was in the um the Falmouth one and I think Don also was in favor of it as well is the maximum overnight occupancy is that limit that actually gets set by the health department based on on chapter >> title five. It's the number of bedrooms,

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right, Keith? >> Yes, it's the number of bedrooms. So they they and and that's what they put on their rental certificate. >> Um but then the idea of saying at no time during the use of the property as a short-term rental shall the number of people on the property exceed twice the maximum overnight occupancy limit. Again, so if you have four bedrooms, you

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have a maximum occupancy of eight, but you can't have more than 16 people on your property. So if the police come and there's like 30 people there, they can shut that down right away. even if right now they really couldn't if they were being reasonable about it unless you unless you wanted to start getting into you're having a party and you're

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violating the section with regard to um no no large events. So, it's it's another benefit and and hopefully I don't know how you get all of this information um and make sure people are respectful of it. Um with regard to are

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is that information being properly be relayed to people who are renting the short-term rentals, whether it's it's on these different um websites or not, because I know that and Don had mentioned this that sometimes when you look on there, they're saying um you know, it's four bedrooms, but it can occupy 12 people or 14 people. Yeah,

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because they have a sofa bed and whatever. No, your occupancy limit is is eight. >> Yeah, those sites hardly ever contain prohibitive language because their goal is to rent the site. You rent the property. So, they're not going to put in you can't do this, you can't do that. Um, no, I think that's a good point. Um, there

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>> I just don't know how you how you get that information. I know I have rented um a place in in Truro and it was very clear you can't have more than four people on the property. >> Who told you that? Did the real estate agent? >> No, the owner. they were also had a something on property and but it was

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part of the whole agreement that you can't have more than four people. So I think some people are good about it because it's it's in their best interest to do that. >> Exactly. >> Um >> but it's just you know sometimes it's really hard to make sure that everyone's getting the information and no one's I'm afraid you know no one's going to be

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looking at at all of these um Airbnb and comparing it. That's a lot of work. Or you could would could hire a company to do that, but that's expensive as well. So, how much of a problem is it compared to in this level of either time investment, personnel investment or

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money investment? You know, maybe the chamber could do some sort of like PI program with the motel owners or owner property, not motel owners, um, real estate agents that that are active in this area >> and ask them to either do a fact sheet

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or something like that that they pass out as they as they rent. >> Their rental certificate says what is the maximum, >> right? >> And highlight that or something because they've >> Mr. I I'm having a a will moment here. I'm

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not understanding the language in this section. >> Okay, good. It's actually a compliment >> and I and to Don's I am the other oral fan here. So, >> full disclosure. Okay. >> I So, if the maximum number of people is is if it's four bedroom, it's eight

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people, but then >> overnight >> overnight. >> But then the sentence kind of says it shall never exceed >> during the day. >> During the day. So, if you could have a birthday party, you could have 16 people there. >> It doesn't say just during the day. >> Maybe you should add that.

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>> No time during the use of the property. No time use of the >> All right. >> I I do object. >> I read it as you could have 16 people, but twice the number of >> you have 16 people at a birthday party. >> Yeah. But it doesn't say that you all

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those eight other people have to leave. It just says at no time can it exceed that 16 amount. >> I see your point. I mean maybe we can do some clarifying there. >> The aid could leave and 16 others could show up. >> Yeah. >> Yep.

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>> Sleep on the floor. Spec specificity of that. >> I'm sorry I'm being >> No apologies. No. >> I stopped apologizing. Tom, you don't have to. >> Yeah. I would never apologize for being an oral fan. >> Okay, good. Nor do we expect our friends

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to apologize for their fandoms. Just to be clear, >> I think it's rather common for siblings and cousins to rent so that their kids can play together for the same couple of weeks, >> but they can't stay at their parents' house, so they rent separate houses, but

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they have a birthday party. It's easily going to be 20 or 25 people. And so I think that that's a little too specific for the culture here. >> No. >> Okay. >> All right. You you can't speak until >> Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't real I thought I was muted. I'm sorry.

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>> All right, >> Mr. Player. We We'll get to you in just one minute. >> I'm sorry. I'll mute myself. I didn't realize I thought I was muted. >> Just slipped out. >> Oh, good. >> I think a limit I think the limit on the types of parties is excellent, >> but I I just don't know how we could how

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we could define this without really down again. Yeah, sure. >> Okay. So, I again I'm not um not remembering exactly what the other bylaws had. I do know the Felmouth one was this multiplication. Yeah.

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>> Of two times um the occupancy. Uh >> I guess I'm just going to say we say no large events. >> Yeah. >> What do we consider a large event? I think having 25 30 people at your home at one time is probably in to me it would be a very large event because I'm

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not that social but um is that what we want? It's very subjective how people everybody's interpretation of large is different >> right and and this is this is defining it a little bit >> that's not large for my family >> and it's also family versus in my family

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25 is nothing >> I mean I come from a huge family and I have a I have a family event every summer you always at least 40 people there um now of course I'm not doing short-term rentals or anything like that but >> but um >> the difference is you are having your

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family event once a year, >> right? >> If you live next door to a short-term rental, somebody could be having this party every night every single week. >> Yeah, I get it. That's the difference. >> It's family versus party. It's It's all definitional. And but you're right, Tom. How do you

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>> I don't know how you Maybe we should wait and see what the public says. >> I'm like Kathy. I'm anti not antisocial, but I'm I don't like >> Then you'll love this by What is the intent of the short-term rental bylaw? >> You know, it's it's

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>> about neighborhood character >> to maintain neighborhood character >> and and allowing it while still maintaining and it may limit it certain things that people might want to do. And if you're going to have a giant party, 40 people or something, maybe Yarmouth isn't necessarily the place for you to

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have your short-term rental. Yeah. >> U may maybe you go to another community where they they don't they don't care about that. But I think we need to keep that in mind because we do hear, you know, from people who are concerned about what's going on in their neighborhood and the larger events.

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>> Yeah. And it's usually kids, you know, it's usually like a graduation week, stuff like that >> and those are specified in the types >> that that are not allowed, right? >> Yeah. >> Chair, would you like to >> Yes. Mr. Mr. PL, you have a a comment

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here? >> Yeah. I'm I'm sorry. I thought I was muted. I was just thinking out loud. It's okay. Um I I think by having so if if you have an occupancy of eight and a total property limit of 16, I

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think that gives the proper lever to authorities to keep things under control and also to respect the property owners in the neighborhood that might want to be there and have a quiet afternoon in their backyard or play catch with their kid in

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the road. That's how I feel. >> Thank you. >> And also for my in my head, I also have to keep remembering that >> there are lots of people who are just private homeowners who are going to have a graduation party because their child is graduating from DUI. And that's not

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what we're talking about here. We're not talking short-term rental property venue. Exactly. And if you rent something that's just a twobedroom and it's four, >> then you multiply it by two,

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>> it's going to be eight. >> Got it. >> And if everybody's quiet and there are 10 people there, no one's going to know. >> No one's going to complain. >> No one would be upset and they're following all the other rules and regulations. No parking on the street, no parking on the grass. And >> yeah, two of them, two extras are the

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Grammys. >> They're not going to be thrown out of the party. In fact, book clubs are actually not excluded. So, that's a good thing. >> Interesting. >> Be nice and quiet. >> Okay, Kath, we're >> sure we're we're down to noise. And I

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think you know Dearra had a good comment. >> Number five. >> Yeah. About referencing that. And I think just referencing um >> uh the general bylaw that we have, chapter 104 on noise and then emphasizing the quiet hours from 11 to 7, which is in the ordinance. There's

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certainly no harm in that. Um, and then types of rentals. I know that Don had mentioned a couple things and I had added in some graduation, fraternity, sorority, bridal, or bachelor parties. You could go on and on and on, but these seem to be the ones that um people are actually seeing

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um there. Um, number C, I don't know whether we really need to add this in, but this was something that was included in the um the Falmouth bylaw about um no production of noise, vibration, light, glare, trash, fumes, odors, traffic, parking congestion, or any other

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nuisance at any time beyond that which is normally occurs in the immediate residential area. We have a sentence ahead of that that basically says shall not adversely affect the residential character of the neighborhood nor interfere with any reasonable person's enjoyment of their residence. Adding the second sentence just adds a little bit

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more detail. So, um, >> just grammatically. >> Oh, yeah. >> Can we put reasonable in front of enjoyment instead of reasonable person? >> So, it would say any person. It's reasonable enjoyment. You don't have to be reasonable to

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>> a reasonable person is a legal term. >> Oh, is it really? >> I was going to say I'd like to meet some of those. >> I think it's hard these days. >> It is. It is a legal term. I did not know that. >> Not here. I'm just saying. >> Um, so if that looks good and then I

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guess I'm a little more fuzzy when it gets to penalties and enforcement because I think this is where we really need to rely on some information from town council. Um, and I don't know whether the enforcement of this bylaw shall be the responsibility, and I say

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health and building departments, um, and maybe supported by the police department because a lot of these things might be happening outside. Um, and then I I can't necessarily speak too much to the rest of this. This is very similar language that I've seen

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in other general bylaws. >> Say this is written by attorneys. Yes, >> clearly these these pieces, but that doesn't mean that our attorney loves it and would maybe want to tweak it. >> I think the key difference is with regard to suspension of certificates >> and what that language might actually

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look like. I think it's important to put something in there that says if you're a chronic problem, you're not going to be given the privilege of having a short-term rental in the town of Yarmouth. Um, I don't know whether it's, you know, the way it's written right now is is two or more violations of any

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state or local bylaws or regulations and verified by the appropriate town official, which would probably usually be the building department, uh, or the health department within a six-month period. So, if you're a chronic person, it could be two, it could be three, whatever you number you want to put in there. Um, and then this is the giving

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building commissioner the ability to revoke suspend for a specific time um or to disqualify the owner from obtaining a certificate for up to x period of time. I think I I just the last part there is just a artifact of a sentence I was not

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completing. So So I think that that's you know is that you guys want to see in here, you know, the ability to suspend, revoke, I think it's kind of important. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. I think the town council can give us some guidance and maybe

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>> how other towns are treating the same >> Yep. >> uh situation or at least providing for the ability for the town to actually in have some punit some >> pun some people have been doing it through, you know, it's after a hearing with the board of health. A lot of these

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provisions that you might be violating have nothing to do with that board of health, right? >> Um so it gets a little confusing. So whether this can be something that the building comm I always say this building commissioner said commission um is is that something that's possible?

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But I also like okay does what's the um if somebody disagrees with that what is their recourse? And sometimes they have a you know you can challenge it in a hearing or something like that. So I don't know whether we want to go to that point and

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whether that's something that I think at some points it's been you can you could um I forget what it was but contested to the select board. >> The number of people are actually going to go to the select board probably very very slim and they probably have to feel that they were very strongly but it gives people an avenue of of saying that

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they're not being persecuted. You have the right for this u process. >> Yeah. I say leave it in. I think this section alone of law the rest of it is if you don't have this >> this top becomes more recommendation >> right as opposed to as opposed to a

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regulation >> and also it supports our town staff and police department as well in knowing that we're considering them and then of course giving them the ability to actually have this whole thing make me have meaning >> basically realize that if they don't behave they're they're going to lose their

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>> the owner the owner will will face penalty. >> It's a privilege. It's not a right. >> Although it's not by right, but who cares, >> right? >> Severability is always something that you have in a general bylaw. >> Um the effective date, and this is

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something I want to confirm with town council. Um, but I've seen it in other ones that the effective date is the date that it's approved at special town meeting subject to approval from the um, attorney general's um, and then at which time it shall apply to all short-term rentals whether registered before or

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after that date. That sentence is something I want to get clarification, but I would love that to be able to say that >> whatever you've been doing in the past doesn't matter anymore. This is what we're doing now. This is what we're doing in the for forward. And we might change the rules later if you guys are really bad. Um, and but the and then we get back to

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the sunset clause. I did ask town council. I think Ken had brought it up and and I think Peter and others were like a little bit, well, could we just extend the sunset clause? >> I thought that too. >> Yeah. And then Yes. And then whether um we could make edits in the in the difference. I don't know if if we really

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need the sunset clause anymore. If we're we're comfortable to a certain extent where we are, the sunset clause is just not creating any grandfathering. Um, so I think that's something if I mean if we're going to do a sunset clause, you're not doing a sunset clause in a general bylaw, >> right?

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>> So it's we're doing something completely different uh with that, but I haven't heard back from from him on that. >> I would think if we're going to put the work in, let's just do the work. Let's not keep looking at this every single year. I um I know some of you have

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expressed interest in the sunset clause, but if we're >> if we're thinking of moving on this road map of moving this out of zoning um and the road map is to get it into the general bylaw. Um I think that we we

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should all of us should just consider the ne the necessity for the sunset clause. Um I know c when Mr. Smith was here last at our last meeting. He expressed an interest in trying to keep it and others have along the way. Um,

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personally, I think it's a it's a good leash because it makes us come back and make sure we look at what we have. Um, but I I just don't think it's necessary anymore. I don't I that's that's my personal opinion. and especially with a

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uh twothirds requirement, it just makes it more difficult for special town meeting. Uh and moving it to general bylaw uh will eliminate that. >> The only the only thing I would say somewhat against that, but in the spirit of cooperation still would be to make to

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push the sunset clause out. >> That's a good point. That's a question. >> Or okay. Because obviously it wouldn't stick to what it says on here. But at the same time, maybe as you said, it should just be our responsibility, you know, on an annual basis unless we hear more from the community in between those

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in between the time period to have it to have a check-in almost the way we used to do with the short-term rental uh with the motel. There was a couple years where we had motel owners come back >> at the end of the year >> and to just say, "How did it go? Is it working?" We don't do that anymore, but I do agree. It makes more sense for us

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to >> Well, there's there's nothing that prevents us >> from looking at anything in the zoning bylaw. >> Of course, >> at any meeting, >> of course. >> Um the sunset clause just is a >> I I think um in this case, in my

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opinion, and I I I welcome the opinion of the other board members, um it's uh I I just don't think it's necessary if this is the route that we're thinking of taking. Although if we look at it from the citizens point of view, it's a benefit. It's like a belt and

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suspenders thing. It's a benefit. They know what the you know there's a date certain. So if we're looking at it from a resident's point of view, this may be if as long as it doesn't harm >> well and it and it may be salutatory for some of the citizens who know that there

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is a sunset clause, they're going to look at it again. If it doesn't harm us and and is a benefit to the citizens, we might consider >> I'd like I'd like to just bring up the most recent ones we had where we had a a a gentleman from town who wanted to sell

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lobsters and a gentleman from town who wanted to be able to park his boat in his driveway and he came to us and we took care of them. So, anybody who wants to and and and knows that we are open to their considerations, we will look at the

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zoning bylaw. We don't need to have a calendar or and I called it a leash. Um it it doesn't necessarily mean it that way, but it just it it's just I think it's burdensome. My my personal opinion, it's burdensome to Kathy. She's got to

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keep looking at it, making sure we get this special town meeting because we've got a deadline on this. I I just don't think it's I just don't think it's necessary. >> Madam Chair, I think when when when this was created, we might have been one of the only towns with a short that's not the case anymore. Obviously,

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look at our packet, right? And if it moves to the general bylaw, if we wanted if we needed to put a cap on it, we can we can do that without grandfathering. I think that was one of the main concerns as to whether or not this was going to, you know, hurt us and how it was going to hurt us and whether a cap was needed or what was needed. So,

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>> because we were wandering into an area we didn't know because of the legal challenge and I think we were the first town >> to actually define short-term rental to protect >> those people who have them and protect that revenue stream for us.

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>> And I can't believe on a side note, it's already been two years. So, I guess we have done the I'm going to call it the phase one work to get to where we are now. And it feels like I would agree and we'll see how it goes that the sunset clause is no longer.

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>> So, we'll we'll see what the public says. >> Kathy, thank you for this. This was a lot of work on your part. Um, >> took me a little while to figure it out, but I think we're in a good place actually. I think we're adding enough things to put a little bit more guard rails in, but not throwing the splatter

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effect and th and throwing everything in the kitchen sink in here. I do think if we're going to move forward with this with the general bylaw, um I'm sorry, probably need to talk closer. We should do the general bylaw first. There's going to be an order to this scenario. >> Yeah, I wanted to Can you give us the

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little bit of the road map here? Well, you'd go through the general bylaw first and make sure that that gets passed um before before you would go to the zoning edits, which would basically modify 418 to be the truncated version and

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reference the the general uh bylaw. Um if both of those fail, we might actually want to have a third one that just extends the sunset clause so that we don't we don't want to lose our short-term rentals. And that's what the sunset clause causes me. every single time you have to get a vote from

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twothirds majority um that people are still agreeing with that and you you know depending on who comes to town meeting and the and that could depend on the other articles that are on as we've seen in previous time. >> Yes, exactly. Um so it might be something where we would need to um

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maybe have three articles related to this at at special >> I know we we talked Mr. Play I know your hand is up. I'll get to you in just a second. Um, >> when we talked this afternoon, Kathy, the sponsor of a general bylaw is the select board.

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>> I I think so. I I'd have to double check. >> I don't think it's us. >> Um, typically it's not. You guys might do all the work for it. >> I remember when we made the changes. I didn't check back to the to the uh article when we had the marijuana. >> Uh, we had made a bunch of changes to the marijuana general viol that we

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worked on, but I'm not sure whether under our name or not. Um, >> yeah, that's what >> No, I was just checking with Will as said whe I think I'm the only one who might have been around. Yeah. >> And maybe maybe maybe Mr. Smith. I think he might have been. >> Maybe. Yeah.

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>> Oh, yeah. Maybe. I think he was. Um, so at at some point if um maybe at the next meeting if you could just lay out for us kind of a this the next steps that we need to go through to move this forward

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and move it from a zoning to a general. >> Yeah. I think what I'd like to do in the interim is try to have a meeting with the rest of the staffs and kind of go over this, see if there's any concerns that they might have, get a better understanding maybe of what the current processes that they're doing. Um, as

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well as talk to town council about some things, and then I get a better handle on on the the all the things that you're looking for. Um, and I Joanne and I have been talked a little bit about it. There's also a lot of things that can happen outside the bylaw or outside town meeting. We had talked about the

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process, identifying the process for complaints, having the list of short-term rentals. Um, and we talk about the great new GIS guy. He did the map there for you and the interactive map. You might even be able to do that for short-term rentals, you know, and then it would be great if you could touch it and then get the contact

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information. So, it might be a case where we can get multiple departments working together and not just have a list, which might not be as as beneficial as a map. So, he's like, "Oh, here's my neighborhood. What's going on in my neighborhood?" And then you can kind of click or it would be literally it would be great if you could touch it, find out the rental certificate and also

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the um the contact information. That would be perfect. >> Or if the property next to you is a short-term rental and it's not on the list, >> right? Then you know that somebody's not registered and you can say, "Wait a minute." You know, I'm kind of not finding that. And typically when typically when you call people, they're

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like, "Oh gosh, yes." And they come right in. So, um >> Madam Chair, can I ask a question? Did have you and Kathy talked to the select board about this becoming a general bylaw? >> No. No. >> But do they know that this issue is going to be on the fall town meeting? >> So it's more this is more this is sort of the next level of detail. Okay.

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>> So that would be a conversation to have with them in the near future. >> Yeah. They actually talked about having some type of when we did the March 3rd short-term rental um meeting with UMass Donahue about having some type of form later in the in the summer when we guys when we had an idea of what we wanted to

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do. I think we just present them with what we want to do. Um, and then start from something >> and get some input from the public on what we want to do to start with something and then kind of present that. I think it relies also on on seasonal communities that we'll talk about in a little bit. >> Mr. Pa.

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>> No, thank you. So before you guys move on to the seasonal community thing, I I have two questions before I go on and you may not think it's relevant, but so I was once told by a tradesman that he could not park his

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work vehicle in his driveway when he was done work. Is that true? >> I do not believe that's true. If that's your work vehicle and you're coming and you live there, you're a plumber and you have Joe's plumbing on the side, you can park your work van. Yeah, it was it was basically an electrician and he told me

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he was not allowed to park his electrical van in the neighborhood because it was against the zoning laws. >> And when I hear it and look it up, >> it says if it's a work vehicle that's there for work at the house and it's going to be there for a long time, then

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arrangements have to be made. >> But I could not find specific language about Joe the plumber. I do know in my entire neighborhood there's we I live in a working neighborhood so everyone has their work vehicle at home. There's a lot of

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tradesmen that work in my neighborhood. It's not an issue. I do know there was a particular neighbor who had a problem with someone who had an electrical van and had a particular design on them that they didn't like and that was a lot of back and forth. But no, if you're we're a working neighborhood, we're a working

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community. You should be able to put your >> That's fine. I only ask because because if that were the case that they couldn't park their car there, their van there, but his nextdoor neighbor could advertise on the worldwide web, that didn't seem fair. That's all that's why I asked. >> Yeah.

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>> And and how about long-term rentals? Do long-term rentals require permits as well and inspections? >> When you say long-term rentals, there's like three types of rentals. There's a short-term rental and then there's the seasonal rental where someone might be renting for three or four months uh in in season, and then there's the annual

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rental. both annual rentals. >> Yeah. Both annual and um seasonal need to also um get be registered uh with the border with the health department. >> Okay. >> Yep. >> All right. Thank you. So, I'm I appreciate everybody's time and giving me the opportunity to to talk to you

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folks and I'm I'm assuming that you have reviewed the packet that Kathy um prepared and had my edits to the Felmouth laws. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Yes. There there's a couple of things there. By having a a representative

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within 20 miles that that could take a load off the city and actually help some of the stuff. When I when I have a problem and it tells me the LLC owns the company, who do I call? I don't know who the LLC is. >> That's where the con that's where we

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were talking about maybe having >> I understand. I'm just I'm just reinforcing the idea of somebody within 20 miles. Um, uh, the part about the owners, I'll be honest with you, I have emailed

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numerous times. I I wonder who the guy is related to that is advertising 20 people for a 12 capacity because it's like pulling teeth trying to find anything out. He was advertised on three sites for 20 people.

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So, somebody got a hold of him. He changed one site, left the other two the same. Oh, I'm all set. And he had no permit. And yet I can't get any information. It took numerous emails to get any kind of reply. So that's why that's there. You

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can kick that around any way you want. I found that a lot of times all politics is local and usually people on boards and things like that. And I'm not trying to offend anybody, but everybody has their own agendas.

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um occupancy. I don't think kids under three should be charged as occupants. That maybe that would help with uh getting families into these places instead of things we don't want.

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And uh >> let let me understand what you're saying there. So >> So we wouldn't we wouldn't count the five children. >> We would count only the two adults. I'm if there I'm not I'm just trying to

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understand, Mr. Player. >> Yeah, they have it. >> Well, I I'm saying children I'm I'm just wondering and trying to stimulate families using these rather than golf party weekends where you got

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buou noise. So if you if children ages zero to three really don't have a big impact, maybe you don't count those three those kids towards the occupancy. I'm I'm just asking. It's it's a proposal. It's not not something I'm saying it should be.

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It's out there for discussion. That's all. >> It's right here. It's under >> Yeah, >> it's in red. >> Y it's up on the screen. >> Oh, it's up on the screen. >> Yeah, >> it's just for discussion, that's all. >> Okay, we appreciate that. Uh there I'm I'm sure town council may have an opinion on that.

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>> Yeah. And I'm sure the board of health might either. Like I said, I'm not a lawyer. I'm not a health official. >> I'm just a grandpa, you know. >> I know what I would like >> and I'm just an auntie. So I appreciate that. Uh >> yeah. So, um,

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>> if you go down to the next one, the owner about providing the board of health or whoever it is, the internet portals, a lot of these guys aren't showing the front of the house. Why aren't they showing the front of the house? Because they're advertising it

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aggressively over capacity and they don't want their no neighbors to know which house it is. There's numerous of them out there if you start looking. So, if you require that and also require a street view of the house, that gives you more

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visibility, a better handle on what's going on in your town. Proof of insurance. I'm not sure how familiar you folks are with the woman from Brewster that got killed in a house fire. >> We are very we are very familiar.

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>> Yeah, we are. >> I mean, it's it's sad. and those people did not have home insurance that covered tenants even though it was rented through one of those online portals. So, I I think that's something that if

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you're going to give somebody a permit and god forbid you had a fire and two people got killed, >> I I think the board I think the board of health here takes care of all of that. >> I I don't know. And that's part of maybe we need to have a meeting with them. What do you >> What are the processes that they're

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under? um you know u smoke smoke alarms and uh CO alarms and all of that. I I'm >> I'm quite sure the board of health requires all of that here. >> I I I understand that. But that's not

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insurance. Insurance is what you are insured for. If you have homeowners insurance, standard strike homeowners does not cover you renting your house out. We understand. So, thank you for that. We're going to look we will look at

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that. We will look at that. >> Okay. >> And the other thing is is that that bill that Maggie Hubard bill that's going to put the the responsibility on your fire departments to do these inspections if it passes as planned.

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>> If you read the language of that, it's the fire department that's >> Sorry, I'm not following what what are you saying? >> He's referring to the Maggie Harard Rental Safety Act. uh which is currently in committee. It hasn't been approved. Um I guess it's at

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the at the House level. Um it's a Senate bill, not a House bill. Um, we'll we'll we'll keep a a watch on it, but um but I mean, >> you know, there's not there's there's there's practically no transparency on Beacon Hill. And um I don't know that we

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can uh take as much as we would like to take the time to kind of follow that. But if and when something like that becomes law, we obviously will uh comply with it. >> Right. I I >> we're not going to take any the a

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planning board doesn't take positions on things other than zoning. >> So, uh this issue um it may be one that might be outside of our purview, but certainly if something comes by that's passed, we will take a look at it. Absolutely.

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>> Okay. Okay. Well, I I believe Julian was one of the sponsors. >> Okay. Um, the other thing is is the owner and the these owners that are getting these permits, they should sign something saying that they've read and understand

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these short-term rental bylaws because there's numerous violations that oh, I didn't know they couldn't park on the street or I didn't know I could only have two people per bedroom. It it it goes on all the time.

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One one of the things that I was talking about that might be outside the bylaw is um additional questions on the rental application. Uh especially in open gov uh lots of times you will have that you can do it so that you can't move forward

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unless you have >> checked the box that you have read it. >> Good point. So there's some things that can be done uh in that um and also asking some question some additional questions and that's some conversations with um the health department and other town staff on what how involved that

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would be but seem that might be a simple way of getting more information in a relatively easy way and get them to understand the information and responsibilities that they have. I >> I think that's a good idea. Um the nobody told me excuse uh doesn't doesn't go very well with me. Um, you know, you

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should be reading these documents. >> Once he signs the application, he should also acknowledge. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Nobody told me excuse doesn't really work with me. But, uh, we appreciate that. Um, as a as something Kathy, >> you guys all want to go home, so I'm just going to skip over the other ones

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and get to the one that wasn't mentioned, and that's that there's no age requirement right now. The one of the houses across from me that's been a problem has a house limit age of 18. So if anybody wants to rent it for a a party, long as you're over 18, you can

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rent that house and do whatever you want. So if you put some some homes have an age limit. It's on the sites. It says must be 25, must be 21, must be whatever. But maybe if you put a a an age limit

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into the bylaw into the new general bylaws, it would stem some of the rowdiness. And I'll bow out now because I know you guys have other things and we beat this horse for an hour. >> Well, we appreciate your comments, Mr.

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Player. >> Thank you. We really appreciate and and thank you for taking the time to go through in such um specific detail, especially the Felmouth um uh bylaw. We we really appreciate you doing a whole

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lot of homework for us um in many ways. Um it's going to just make us more informed and better at what we're trying to do here. Um and you know, this is just a a step along the way. We're going to make sure that all of these things

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are reviewed, especially by town council. I don't know what we can do about age. Uh that's a that's a tricky one. Uh but whatever we can do um that seems to be uh reasonable uh we we will

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take a look at. But we really we really appreciate your time and commitment to this um uh uh this particular uh change in our bylaw. So thanks again. We appreciate it >> and thank and thank you all as well. >> And we we're having a public hearing so

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he can also come. >> Oh yeah, >> definitely. >> So Kathy, any anything more on this now for you that you need from us? >> No, I think I'm good. >> Okay. So let's move on to second item on our agenda. Seasonal communities designation review and discussion on

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additional information received related to seasonal communities designation zoning requirements. Kathy has prepared a planner memo for us um and uh dated June 1st on undersized lots which was your main concern with this. I think I I

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didn't really have a lot of concern necessarily with regard to this zoning requirement. Um obviously I was always concerned about tiny homes. Um because I feel like that basically the undersized lots allows you

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to um build on a non buy right on a non-conforming lot that's at least 10,000 square feet with a minimum of 20 foot of frontage. As I mentioned at the last meeting, it doesn't say that specifically they need to be vacant. Somebody could have a small shack on something or small home and want to be

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able to develop it um under this. The benefit of it is that you have less setbacks that are required. They're one foot per thousand square foot of the lot size with a maximum of 15 feet all the way around. >> What is it, Kathy? One foot per >> one foot. So, if you have 10,000 square

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foot lot, one foot per 10 per thousand. So, it's a 1000. Okay. Right. But no, even if you have a 20,000 square or square foot lot, you can't require more than 15 feet. >> Um, but you do have to have the attainable, which means that you this is another form of affordability. Right now

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it's listed as up to 250 AMI, but that they allow the towns to set that amount. And it also has to have a year- round uh housing restriction on it. So, just to get an idea of how many lots within areas that we allow single family homes um would actually have that are vacant

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that met this criteria, meaning they were 10,000 square feet and then just below what the the zoning is for that particular district. And that's what the map that you see here. It's really hard to to see it, but you can see um Ed did a great job down on the um legend of giving you an idea of how many unit or

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how many lots were in each one of these and I think it was like 220 are shown on the map. But the percentage of people who would actually use this undersized lots criteria, not just our regular zoning bylaw, is probably a very very small fraction of this. I don't see this being a prevalent thing that's going to

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all of a sudden explode a bunch of additional building in our community. There might be some people who are not meeting right now the 50 foot minimum frontage or or some of the requirements and this is only allows 20 uh can be as low as 20 feet. So you may find that there's a couple lots that might have

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some weird configuration where they didn't have quite the minimum uh frontage that was required to be a buildable lot. I see this being all like related to people who have been told you don't have a buildable lot. But now with this you might have a buildable lot and it makes sense that you might want to build on it. I just don't think that there's a significant number of

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properties that this is going to be impacting because we already allow a lot of it in our zoning bylaw. So, I think um that was just an exercise to kind of give you guys a little bit more of a comfort level of kind of the the level of impact that uh passing this

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particular zoning requirement would have on the town of Yarmouth if we did get seasonal communities designation. I think the um select board uh also at the March 3rd I think it might have been um had suggested um that they're interested in hearing what the planning board has to say. So I think they're looking for a

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memo or something from the planning board uh basically kind of giving your viewpoints on the required the two required zoning amendments uh as it relates to seasonal communities designation. I don't have any serious issues with it as long as like I said no

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there's no movable tiny homes. So you can't live in an RV. Um I just don't think that the undersized lots is going to result really quite frankly. >> Kathy, hypothetically, so you get 70 78 parcels in R25 that are in phase one or

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two of the sewers. So if you had a 10,000 foot unbuildable lot on sewer, how many bedrooms do we have or did we plan for it? We didn't plan four, of course, because we didn't plan for this, >> but how many bedrooms are you going to put on a 10,000 foot lot now? Would it still be one?

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This is where um you'll remember that one of the things in the LCP um was having sewer allocation regulations and I don't believe there are any sewer allocation regulations that would

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dictate I'm used to people needing to um get a sewer allocation. You pay for it. I want to right now I may have one bedroom and I want to put it in a second bedroom. I have to pay for that. I have to let you know. I need to let you know because now you're taking up some of the

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capacity in that we have um in our wastewater treatment facility. So I think at some point we need to get a handle on that as we get into these res before we get into these residential neighborhoods. Um so that we have a better understanding of and it's it's

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not just one bedroom. It's only if you're in the zone two where you're limited to one bedroom per 10,000 square foot everywhere else outside the zone two of the drinking water wells. It's what the soils would allow which we all know allow a lot.

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>> So what would be the bedroom allowance on a 10,000 foot lot on the sore for one of these lots? They probably in the original allocation had nothing because it was an unbuildable lot. But we also included in

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the proposed uh buildout of a thousand new bedrooms in the entire on all eight phases. >> So somebody needs to be keeping track of that so that we don't overbuild and all of a sudden when we get to uh phase eight we don't have enough sewer capacity because we overbuilt uh in these other areas.

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>> And that's where we get into the sewer allocation. somebody. We need to be keeping track of all of these improvements that we're making, which are great, but they're increasing uh wastewater flow. And it's fine because phase one, we had a lot of wastewater flow allocation increase in phase one

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because that's where our commercial corridor is. We were anticipating that. We were also anticipating multif family in there. So, it was all part of that process. But we need to keep track of what the sewer allocations are. >> So, so by today's standards, 10,000 would be one bedroom, right? only if

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you're in the zone two of the drinking water wells. If you're not in the zone two, >> so most of our 25 south of 28's not in >> not in the zone two except for you get very west in the zone two of the barnstable wells. >> So now these unbuildable lots could be fourbedroom >> lots

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>> if you could yeah if you could make it fit and you could get your septic system in. I mean you still need to meet all of the um septic requirements. The thing that is changing is just the setbacks. Wow. >> So only

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>> that applies to not just that this that applies to any >> Hold on. Mr. Pallaya, can you please mute your mic? Thank you, sir. >> Should be muted. Um >> I'm sorry. I forgot. I lost my train of

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thought. All right. >> What were we talking about? uh >> 10,000 square feet in zone two. >> Zone two. >> They're outside of zone 2, R25. >> Yep. It's it's going to be whether you what your septic system can handle. >> Um and then the setbacks and the height

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and fitting it all in. >> But I just I guess what I was trying to get at was that this change that we're talking about with the seasonal communities isn't is not going to be adding a lot. I'd be shocked if you if it's two lots that are like unbuildable that this would now create something

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buildable. Um, but there are the ability to build on nonconforming lots if you meet all these other requirements. And you will look occasionally on the assessor's maps, you know, there's blank ones and they're being assessed at like $200,000. So

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those people certainly think they have a a buildable lot and they've been paying taxes on that. They just haven't built on it yet. And oftentimes they don't want to ask for a lower tax rate because they feel it gives them rights at some point in time, >> which it may not. >> They pay the higher tax rate of a

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buildable lot. >> The idea that they have more rights in the property potentially. So, >> but I don't think they do. If it's an unbuildable lot, it's an unbuildable lot whether whether um you were paying higher taxes on it or

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>> because you always have the ability to go to the assessors and say >> it's not a buildable lot and I wanted to charge. Lots of times people you'll find they will actually combine it through a perimeter plan with their property because it's less expensive from taxes if you have a slightly larger lot with

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your house than if you had a completely separate lot. Those 78 lots are going to probably be most attractive to the developer. So they're outside of zone 2. They're south of 28. >> Yeah. >> So sore in the next two years,

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>> but they're attractive now regardless of seasonal communities is >> and some of them are contiguous. They're they're like >> right >> the famous one on Barry Avenue. I did not go all the way through this um because I know there's some things that are shown here like if you get on

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lumberjack lane the center open space required lot is shown here it's not um and I do know that there's also some of the um in the RS40 over here here I know that some of those are completely wetlands and they're not buildable lots so we didn't go to that we had

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parameters when we just >> you know >> yep >> just went with those parameters >> a 10,000 foot flyover >> the 10,000 foot flyover so there's definitely properties that aren't and there may be somes in here that are are not buildable for a bunch of of different reasons. We didn't go into it

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uh any detail of that. The parameters of non-conforming uh and then these assessor codes is >> simply under 10,000. >> No, it's 10,000 square feet but each it the the difference each zoning district was looked at separately. So is vacant

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last 10,000 up to just below um whatever the um the zoning is um and then and then the use codes that are identified there. Okay.

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I don't disagree with what you're saying, Peter, but I don't think the seasonal communities is the problem of all of a sudden creating a lot of buildable lots. I guess guess it depends on what a lot is. I mean, so those are pretty densely developed neighborhoods already, but

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fine, it's gonna >> But you understand that we have criteria within our existing zoning by that allows for people to develop these. This would only be another option on top of that and the only real advantage here is the reduced frontage.

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>> It reduces the frontage. Yeah. And and again uh I again Kathy and I had spoken uh earlier today. Um we want to focus on seasonal communities and its application to zoning. Um we're not in a

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position to be uh recommending or not the adoption of seasonal communities. That will be up to the select board and town meeting as our legislative arm. So, we're not we're not required and we're we don't need to weigh in on seasonal

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communities or not, but we do need to weigh in on the zoning aspects of it and what we think might be best for the town. Uh, but the overall designation of seasonal communities will be something we're not voting on. >> I don't think it's in your purview.

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>> Yeah, it's uh it's it's not it's not something that we would be reviewing. We did send that memo expressing our concerns with regard to zoning. So, it makes sense to do the book end of saying we looked into it some more and this is how we feel now. >> Uh, anything else on seasonal Kath?

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>> I guess the question is is >> Kathy, >> what's that? >> What's the timing on this? What what is this? Another >> It's fall town meeting. >> Falltown meeting. Okay. >> So, um, >> is it expected that the be uh that we'd be um have a meeting or the board of

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selectmen will have a meeting on this a public meeting or >> I think when we get to the point where we feel comfortable maybe meeting with them on the short-term rentals that's the time to provide them with a memo with regard to how we feel about community zoning. >> We're not going to be required to have

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any kind of a public meeting on on uh seasonal community definition yay or nay. That's >> No. Okay. No, no. I mean, it's a two-step process. I mean, the the designation would happen >> or they're going to be on the warrant on the fall, but then we have 24 months

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from that acceptance of that designation to do the zoning. So, people can have another bite at the apple to look at the zoning >> again. >> At the fall meeting, can they can the citizens reject the Sure. >> That's what I thought. Okay. So they they can do that or they could say yay and then have two years to do and at the

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end of the two years they could still say gee we've looked at this and it's not going to work. >> You could vote down the um the zoning and you would your designation would get revoked or at any time you could even if you pass it and five years down the line

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it's just not worth it for whatever reason you can vote again the same process to to um >> I think Borne just did >> Oh did they? >> Yeah. I thought Borne did. They accepted it and then they've >> rejected it. >> I I think they've backed out.

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>> That's interesting. That would be an interesting story as to why. >> Remember the Trojan horse? >> That's true. >> Okay. So, um moving on. Um Madaki's utilization committee project. Any updates on that? Yeah, they're finaliz

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um Amy Frigilti, the assistant town administrator, is finalizing contracts with um R&D and with BSC group for the uh mass development grant for the next phase to look into those the concepts of a sports facility and some housing um at

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the Mcki site. So, that's something that probably would be done pretty quickly. Um, and then they got to finalize the, you know, it takes forever to sign a contract in the county government. Um, but it's actually with mass development, but they want to make sure that we got the scope right. Uh,

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and then it's going to take 12 to 18 months to to look at that, you know. Um, as I keep mentioning, I mean, Mark Forest mentioned, you know, was concerned about, you know, we that is in the zone two of the drinking water well and should we be, you know, people are concerned about our drinking water and

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he's not wrong. I mean, if we want to be 100% sure that we're not going to be doing any detrimental, then we shouldn't do anything there. Um, but there are ways of properly including in like an RFP that these are the different specific criteria that you need to meet. Obviously, getting sewers there is

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important, but other nitrogen loading is from storm water or from fertilizer. Um, people might be concerned about the different types of the turf fields. So, there's a bunch of different parameters and protections that can be put into place, but if you have any type of development there, it's not zero. you know, it's not zero. So, I just want

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to be sure that people understand that that it's not a case of there's no impact, but you can mitigate them and reduce them um through proper design. Okay. Any comments or questions from the board

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on that one? Okay. Um so, let's moving on. Uh meeting minutes. Uh may I have a motion to approve the May 20th, 2026 minutes? >> So, moved. Second. >> All in favor? >> I abstension.

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>> Thank you. >> Welcome. >> Um Kathy, you've sent out some uh the ZBA agenda for us in the concom um agenda as well. Um >> any other any other

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>> concom um tomorrow night is looking at 703. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Um any committee updates from members? >> Yes, madam chair. Um, Mr. >> Hello. Uh, the CEDC has has been reborn

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>> and uh, we had our first meeting on May 18th. It will meet the third Monday of every month at 6 PM in the upstairs conference room. >> I can't remember the letters, so I'm just going to call it the upstairs conference room. Thank you. >> And, uh, the next meeting will be then June 15th at 6 PM. Uh Megan Eldridge is

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uh helping guide us through the guide us anyway. Um >> do you have productive? >> We do. We have five members. I do believe we're looking probably to get to seven. >> Yes, I think it is seven. >> There definitely is a call for any other

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interested folks from the community who would like to be a part of that um part of the work. And um we're so we're just getting back, you know, into form and uh I will have

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more updates soon. >> Glad to hear it. >> Thank you. >> Anyone else design? Peter, anything going on? >> No, nothing. >> It's been quiet. >> Yeah, other than the town fair tire last time. That was it. >> Oh, that's right. You had mentioned that. Y >> not a committee update, but just a

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comment. If you're driving along 28 going toward Hyannas, the development of the Tupacs is really coming along very well and it it will be stunning once it's done. It really looks great. Um they're doing a great job and terrific

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addition to the community. Um they're joining them, they're landscaping them. So if you're speeding along, slow down and take a look. >> Anyone else? Has has Taco Bell done their >> whatever they need? Forget what they

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need. >> One of the things that the zoning board of appeals required was that they put in a crosswalk on Old Townhouse and they just submitted um their revised plans um to engineering on that which I think >> on Old Town House on on Oh, so there'll

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be a crosswalk between >> further down the expanse of the road and the light. Is that where they're going to put the crosswalk? Oh my god. Yeah, but at least it's old townhouse. It's not >> Yes. It's not on station. >> Those were the that was the dilemma that they were presented with. Yeah.

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>> And they made the right choice. >> Uh Kathy, I have a question on the affordable housing trust that >> is, you know, grant >> I was thinking Taco Bell. I apologize. Did you Were you asking about Taco Bell or Taco Bell? >> Taco Bell. >> Okay. Thank you. I didn't know if you were like, am I getting my my um te's

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mixed up? >> Mixed up. U affordable housing trust. Kevy, we we've the 25,000 that they've agreed. So, this is you again. I mean, this is an RFP you have to put together.

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>> Yeah. I I think we need more money. >> I was going to come to CEDC and ask for some money. And that's why when you said June 15th, I'm like, "Oh, I supposed to think >> third Mondays." Third Monday, 6 PM >> meeting room A. >> Yes. I I I have things. So, we're going to try to supplement that.

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>> Yeah. I can't we can't do what we need to do on $40,000. So, we need some more money for that. >> Okay. >> So, that's >> there's always grants, but then there's timing and then, you know, >> Okay. All of those. >> Not to worry. Bring us up to date maybe at our next meeting on where that is and where you need some help from us.

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>> Okay. >> Um and what you're thinking preliminarily about the scope. I think it would be good for us to um help you um in terms of the scope. Yeah, I think the scope is going to be related to um our architectural and site design

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standards, our VCOD design standards, how we do site plan review with the changes that might be coming uh from the state, and then how we do VCOD and simplifying those. Um so I I have an idea of what I'd like to get included in that. Okay.

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>> And then actually having some actual, you know, have have a consultant do some redline edits or some propose some changes. And again, um, the site the site plan review changes are based on those bond bills that we reviewed correct two weeks ago,

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>> right? >> Um, which I will say again had nothing to do with housing um or zoning. >> Um, >> but nevertheless, they're there. Uh, and and at some point we have to react to them,

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>> right? I think hiring a consultant by the time we get someone on board. Um, whatever is being done with that would be finalized. I think that would probably go through relatively as is because it's they've always talked about including more parameters with regard to

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site plan review because it really wasn't ever in 4A. Um, but including with the with the consultant that that's something that they need to incorporate, help us incorporate into our bylaw. >> Okay.

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Okay. Um, upcoming meetings, uh, in two weeks we'll be back on the 17th. And what are what are you seeing for our agenda for that, Kath? >> Um, the the old main street, the trees. We're going to have the public um,

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>> tree warden coming back. >> Yes. And also, I think uh, engineering is going to be there to talk about their plans. Um, and then, excuse me, >> is that in a butters notice situation as well? >> It's not in a butter notification. Okay. So, I mean, are do you feel a responsibility or do we should we help educate the folks who live down there

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that that meeting is going to happen? >> Yes. Yeah. I'm sorry. I'm going to send out an invitation. >> Oh, okay. Well, that's why I was >> Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. No. Yeah. We're having the meeting. We're hosting the meeting. >> So, we're saying to the local that's we're saying to those folks, come. >> Yes. Yes. We want them to come. >> It's not It's not a notif It's not a

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certify requirement. We did that already. This is just um So, >> follow up. this two years another list from like Forest Road to Union on Old Main. >> It was two years ago. >> Yeah. And that they required to do it in two years. So um so they've already been engineering's already been reaching out to people anywhere near where they're

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doing their work and kind of getting input. So um they've been doing a very proactive way because they it's more than just a replanting plan. They're putting in like um drainage trenches and and and tree trenches that really help will help foster the trees. the tree wardens getting involved with, you know,

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with picking the trees and um they have a whole plan that they're going to be um discussing. Um they're also going to be giving an update on the complete streets um program. They you might remember that they came back a while ago with a policy and now they've made some there's actually been some changes at the state

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level uh on that program. Um and they're looking to have give an update. Um and and also the Habitat for Humanity project across the street uh has submitted their comprehensive permit to the ZBA. They're going before the ZBA on June 25th. Um, and I was thinking of

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putting it on the June 17th if you guys It's a comprehensive permit. Technically needs to be sent it to the planning board and all these bunch of different people if you have any comments or want to write um I think a support letter uh for it because it's I think it's a really really good um project and they've done a done a good job and I can

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submit materials and maybe have like a draft little um memo of language you might want to consider um sending along. But it's a positive I would I view it as a very positive thing. I'm assuming community housing committee probably is already working on that as well.

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>> How many units are they going to get? >> Six. >> It's not a very big space. >> It's I guess we'll see in a couple weeks. >> It's not they they've done a great job. >> I know. I mean, I'm sure they've made it work. >> They've done a good job. I think it's going to create a nice little

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neighborhood community very similar to Virginia Street. Uh, and Habitat always does a good job and the designs are nice. >> They do. >> The designs are nice as well. So, they do a good work. So, that's going to be that fun-filled uh stuff in in addition to any other

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information that I have. Um, I got to get to the ADUs. I know Mark's already taken a look at it um back uh back when it originally came out, but now that we had prior to the promulgation of the actual regulations, now we need to take a very specific look. It's going to be a lot of it is going to be going back and

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just changing accessory apartments to accessory dwelling units and putting in definitions and that type of stuff too. >> So that'll be coming up probably sometime in July. >> Yes. >> Definitely not June 17. >> Yeah. Okay. Um, anything else, Kev? >> Nope. That's it. >> Madam Chair, I first night of overnight

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camp is July 1st, so I will not be here. >> Just wanted you to know. >> All right. May I have a motion uh to adjurnn? >> So moved. >> Second. All >> in favor? >> I. Thank you all. Thanks very