it's like and there's no Zoom option tonight Otherwise I'd be on Zoom Recording in progress What do I get to be mad at started So just come back Welcome to the April 16th 2025 the Armouth Planning Board meeting I am Joanne Crowley chair
This is to formally advise that as required by Massachusetts General Laws chapter 38 paragraphs 18 to2 and pursuant to chapter 20 of the acts of 2021 and an act relative to extending certain state of emergency accommodations signed into law on June
16 2021 Yarmouth planning board will hold a public meeting on April 16th at 5:30 The public is welcome to attend in person this evening or via alternative public access provided on the notice of meeting available on the town of Yarmouth website I will begin by taking
roll call Susan Brida present Dearra Aquin here Will Rubenstein here Jim Sabin Peter Slovak here Ken Smith here Joanne Crowley present Seeing that we have a quorum I'll now call the meeting to order Uh so please join me in the
pledge of allegiance I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all Thank you
So the first item on our agenda this evening is uh our continuing discussions on the local comprehensive plan uh town planner Kathy Williams um has been working on uh and and shared with us
draft number two um with revisions suggested by uh the input from board members Thank you for taking the time to take a look and uh and the BCS group She and the BCF group have also taken into consideration some of the comments we
made at our last meeting So Kathy if you want to go over just a couple of high points on on the um draft number two with with regard to the growth policy There was a couple questions that were asked One of them was from Deerra with regard to whether we should refer to the established VCOD villages plus the other
areas mentioned I'm going to leave that up to you guys Um and then Mary Wagan also wanted to be sure that the language that we had in there doesn't exclude developments that are happen to be all residential I don't think they do because it's al it's saying economic growth should be focused in areas
economic growth should be focused it's not necessarily saying not residential unless anyone doesn't has any comments on that I think if you move on to the natural systems I tried to take into consideration some of the comments with regard to making the key issues more of an identification of the
problem uh on page two versus um trying ultimately trying to get into some of the solutions So um talking about the drinking water is instead of maintaining and improving it's identifying that there are impacts to drinking water especially from POAS and other contaminants and then the
increasing state regulations and quality standards and again the concerns with the associated cost and implications um and that type of thing So I tried to reword that I don't know Kathy do you want to do uh comments as we go through sections easier Would that be easier best for you
mhm Um so on water resources um any additional comments uh that people might have uh I I I do have a couple Kath there again uh I think it's going back to my um look see on parallelism with
the language Um so on the first one I was thinking maybe something like threats to drinking water quality especially blah blah blah Um the next one uh cost and rate implications for
water supply and water treatment Uh then sliding down and I'll give these to you Cath Thank you Um sustainable funding mechanisms for future phases of the wastewater program
Um finding is okay but I thought identification of suitable locations Um and then deteriorate the next one deterioration of water quality in our freshwater ponds And on that um you know I I jumped
over to the Cape Cod Commission and they had a whole study on freshwater ponds and when I looked at the map they didn't identify one pond for us except one way up on on
like right on the Barnstable border they have they have this key map Yeah you can't see it and neither can the public I apologize But they have these dots on where it's watershed vegetation nutrient
management um algae management um and it's a it's a relatively I think new study and it's pond restoration projects Those are ones that have been done I believe Oh okay
Yeah I thought this was maybe I misread it and I thought it was part of a plan But anyway there are no um radio buttons for us Yeah if that's the right or what do we call those things pins Pins Yeah Thank you You're welcome Mr Clerk You're
welcome I don't know whether there's been any pond restoration projects in the town of Yarmouth I do know that they were working with DNR and others uh and compiling some of that information but yeah I think those are projects that were actually completed and then you can probably tick on them and get a little more information on them Okay
Um so does that mean none of ours have been completed do we know we don't know I think they had the commission asked whether we had any pond restoration projects that were completed in each town to provide information So I don't know whether it's a case we didn't provide any or we don't know what Yeah
Okay Yep Um All right That's that's that's what I have on on that one Anyone else in terms of uh natural systems kath did you want to go through any changes in the action items yeah I just would say the action item number
one there is as applicable work with regional partners to evaluate potential for joint monitoring and mitigation strategies I think that gives a comment from Ken Yep Uh hopefully that hit that It does Thank you Okay Um on page um three on number eight I think we had
talked about this at the last planning board meeting We want to continue to support and work with the Hyannis PAS community group Um I have talked to Amanda Lima whether she has any specific projects she wants mentioned on item item number eight and she's going to take a look at that for
us It for page three On page four again just trying to to change the phraseiology there of of impacts of sea level rise and saltwater inundation on salt marshes and bordering vegetated wetlands Anyone had any edits on
that i I did have one Kath um on key issues The first one I thought maybe wetland resources and buffers at risk from development and adjacent homeowners something like that Yep And I don't think the last bullet is
necessary I think it's redundant but I would welcome the comments from the from the board I mean it's sounding like a as I'll jump on Peter's comments It sounds kind of like a sounding like a goal Yeah
Yeah Yeah Uh and and as I read it we don't have an action item necessarily specifically associated with that Yeah I think that's I don't think it does anything Similar to the unfamiliarity with the regulations
leading to violations and damages to wetland resources It's the same kind of thing is if you don't know the wetland resource there if you don't know that something's a vernal pool you may not be properly protecting it Yeah Um but yeah I don't have a problem taking that out Um part of this process is all all of
the these adjustments um Kathy will will make if we're all in kind of consensus that they make sense Yeah Okay All right Agreed You can say no Joanne That's really not a good idea Go ahead Your ideas are usually so good
So I know Um anyway under plant and wildlife habitat I think the only change on this um section is uh I believe that it was Susan who mentioned that we should be mentioning uh the comp the invasive species mitigation plan that's very
extensive that's happening at the West Yarmouth parks at Chase Brook Park Mil Creek Park and the former Yankee Village A lot of the work that's being done there actually is related to um I thought that was a very important Yeah that's a big project I like that it starts with the word complete
we can become very we can actually check this off Very outcome oriented There we go Um just a minor thank you dear for tracks not tracks I wonder if I have it that way in
the open space and recreation plan Um going on to again on page seven it's all just minor um commas and that type of thing Um when we get to page eight under community design and land use um I think this is where I tried this was probably
the most egregious version of being more conclusions or action items than um actual uh identification of the issues I do know that Peter Slovak had sent something along as well that had some comments about this but maybe we can
take a look at what's in here now and see if there's any um any edits you'd like to make to this So um you know the originally was need to preserve Route 28 for commercial and mixed use Um but what we're really concerned about is having too much residential development along Route 28 impacting available commercial
land So I think that's truly the the key issue and I think the key issue is we have few defined walkable village village centers You could elaborate on that for business growth or or whatever if you want but that's really the that we don't have a lot of them Um and then
third or the fourth bullet down there limiting larger developments to areas of municipal sewer That's the conclusion but the real problem is preventing further environmental degradation from new development or redevelopment Um and then um and this is just a
rewarding of it um talking about municipal wastewater but to say need for a vision of what we want to see along Route 28 as municipal wastewater will encourage redevelopment So that's our real concern is we want to be sure that we have a vision in place for uh Route 28 Um and then just simplify the
permitting process with more uses as of right That's kind of a conclusion So the just kind of going back permitting process is complicated with too many uses needing special permits which is what the concern was Um you know need for more housing types and opportunities I mean we could expand on that Mary
Wagan asked that I take out inappropriate locations because everyone's version of appropriate locations for housing could be different and she didn't want that to be um misconstrued Um and again you could probably provide some more clarity uh um
additional information on that if you wanted to with regard to housing types Um but need but again that comes in the action items I think very clearly Uh need for more commercial and economic development opportunities in our business court Again that comes back down is to having more use business uses by right and then just talking about how
because this is under community design and land use how the MA I didn't know how to word the Madakis property but the is you know it does offer this great opportunity um for a variety of land uses So I don't know if any any comments on on
these I I got a couple Um one um again I think the first bullet is more goal oriented and and is very very broad Yep Uh and necessarily isn't an issue Uh I'm
not sure how others feel about that And then on the second one I thought that um some of us don't have concerns about too much residential development on Route 28
I you know I've How about the impression yeah Well what I what I was thinking because I I think some people in town I mean there have been some really nice developments and uh I don't think we want to say those are not we're not looking forward to more of those kinds
of things appropriately But what I what my the language I was suggesting is balancing an appropriate mix of commercial and residential development along Route 28 That's well said I think that is a very nice way way to describe That's all there is because there is a
balance somewhere as as things change It might go residential one day and commercial the next day but it's a balance as projects come forward So Joanne's going to give me that your stuff Yes I am Did you have anything on the first one no I I just don't think it's I would strike it Oh okay It's more
of a goal Okay Yeah I mean it's a goal It sounds like a goal something I mean the last sentence and goal is promote growth in areas atted on the phrase too much Um which one are you on the second bullet or the first no Concerns about having too much
residential development Oh Um I keyed on the word too much Right now people do think there's there is a possibility we will have too much residential development Not all people but not all people Not I don't I know Is it concerns with ultimately having too much residential no Go ahead Susan Finish
your thought Finish your thought Sorry In the meeting that you and I were at many people thought that what we have and in fact the board of selectmen has said now that they think what we have we need to be conscious of the fact that we
could get too much residential development and therefore not an e economic development So concerns about having too much I guess is and what was your suggestion balancing Yeah Because who's going to define what too much is and who's going
to define balance well at least that word It's a it's a better word It's a better It's a more neutral word It is a more neutral word Yeah Then too much is actually that's an action Balance is better But I do think that if we had left it for I don't
think there would have been that much objection because we did hear at least that night se particularly the 6A folks our table right they did talk about you know we need to be because they thought it was too much the the you know the potential for the conversion of the motel and so I would have been fine with
that but balance is fine I just think it's it's a softer word it's a soft word if we had left it the way it was I don't think it would have been that detrimental okay could you read yours again Julian Sure Uh balancing an appropriate mix of
commercial and I per I put that first Um and residential development along Route 28 Okay Even Yeah you can even take if you want to make it more bland you can take out the word appropriate Just say balancing blah blah blah
I mean balancing and appropriate are kind of all interlocked You're right Um I'm just saying if that would help I smooth it out Yeah Make it even more neutral I I once worked for a guy who um once said "If you don't need an adjective don't use it." That's right Less is more
like too much Strike them white It's the same thing Okay So let's do balance Think about um balancing balancing mix of you You'll you'll you'll do it right I think that I think that's right
balancing a mix of commercial and residential development along Route 28 which is kind of the concern that it gets balanced properly Uh the other one I had was um again it's it's it's a minor change but the permitting process one I thought
we it could start with uh the issue is a complicated permitting process resulting in too many uses needing special permits Yeah I think they're concerned about the whole permitting process being complicated not just the fact that you
need a special permit If you look at our zoning bylaw with all our optional overlay districts it's like an alphabet soup Yeah Um so I think then I I'll we can let you know I'm okay letting that stand That's fine
Is that good i I just um the action item got modified and I think I tried to modify this based on a comment that Ken had to better define and guide the desired development aesthetics of commercial and large-scale residential projects Um to do that revise and update the architectural and site design
standards and consider making them and I use the word applicable because I know that Jim was concerned about the word mandatory for new development raise and replace and substantial redevelopment I think what we're going to find out of the um the the we'll talk about later in the meeting the community planning grant is you'll kind of come up with those
ideas and what I would ultimately love to have is what people call a pattern book which kind of lets people know that these are the types of patterns and types of developments that we like so you can go oh okay if I develop it like this I know that they're going to be happy about it Um it's a little bit easier than just the words because it
shows you how nice nice it can be Great That's that's called something Kathy in planning Isn't Barnstable doing that now form form form code is one way of doing it Yep Um sometimes form code they're like we don't care what's inside the building We just care what the what it looks like on the outside I think in
Yarmouth we do care what's inside the building Um so we might be a little bit of a combination of the two making sure that we're getting the design aesthetics and the standards and all of that kind of stuff clearly in in our regulations but then still acknowledging that we don't want this use next to that use and
that type of thing So Kathy can I ask you a question sure The consider expansion of the medical overlay district Do you think the public understands what that entails if we do do an expansion no
And we're not going to No Okay No I think they I think the public in general won't understand a lot of this quite frankly At some point we we'll have to explain have to explain exactly what that entail Okay Right But it's also it's like these are these are basic
overarching goals We're going to get into the if we were ever to do that we would get into the nitty-gritty There'd be so many public meetings on it The public hearing the whole process of changing zoning would be in entailed with all of this Mhm Um on the top of page nine um one of the
things that Mary Wagan suggest is maybe we would should consider a transfer of development right bylaw Um basically one of those things I don't know whether the horse is out of the barn here because there's not a lot of land to protect where someone could say I want a higher density uh going on
over here but I'm going to buy the rights to develop over there So it kind of balances out overall I don't know how many opportunities we have for purchasing property and I also don't know um the cost implications to a developer if we now say well you can get these extra bonus density units here is
it really worth buying them from over here and doing that so it's just considerate I don't we had talked I think they had talked about it in the housing production plan uh in past years I don't think it's in it's in there now or maybe it is in there now I thought it was in that's what I was going to ask I
believe it's in there now okay yeah maybe that's why Mary mentioned it because she was going through through the HPP as well So that's why that that's put in there and again a lot of these things are considered look at you know we may emphasize one thing over another and not really put too much
effort into this or we may look at it in a cursory way and say that's considering it we decided not to do it because of x y and z and that's we did it we looked into it So um transportation and connectivity Um this is another section that I've asked
Amanda Lima the town engineer to take a very close look at and see if there's um anything else to add I don't know whether there's any public transportation key issues Um I think they do a darn good job and I keep I can't think that the call and the app
that they have and and all of that is is very very good Um it's just the nature of how we're kind of spread out a little bit We're not Boston where people and they're g not going to have a bus every 10 minutes It's just the nature of where we are Uh expanding routes then becomes you know slows down other people getting
access to the bus So I know this isn't Yarmouth but a key issue and I don't know how you write it into this but the key issue I believe has to be the bridges coming onto this island And how it gets written into here Kathy and Joanne I'm not sure But without those
bridges not the redevelopment of those bridges everything we write in here is garbage So yeah I don't know Is that is that an action item of supporting the I think that's how I would how I would look at it as a as an
action item supporting the redevelopment of Sagamore and Bourne Bridge We can certainly add that something in there Okay You know I think it it complements the the one bullet that we have about the Bass River uh bridges over uh over
Route Six So do you want that to be an action item and saying we're supporting or is it a key issue of or both a key issue of um well our whole lifine is those bridges Yeah I mean I I look at it this is just one person's opinion at this at this board but I look at it as a
key issue without a mechanism to get on to Well we've made this man-made island We have serious issues Fit it in here You know it may not be an act for both of those they there for the uh route six bridges and for the it may
not be action items that we can address but maybe there's a way through various committees that like the members of the border on the what's the transportation that does the tip there's a whole committee that
creates the tip every year joint transportations yeah there's yeah and Mark is on it no no thank you Um and so you know you kind of push the responsibility there that those representatives need to be aggressively
pursuing um these these kinds of projects What about under key issues what about saying something like recognize the importance of um a safe convenient uh bus transportation system that's going to allow economic growth the importance of
a an integrated transportation system that highlights the bridges or something like that Sure You're gonna have to write some stuff down and send it to me Is that the concept you wanted so recognizing that those bridges even though they're 20 miles away from us play a key role in in
our own transportation system and our economic viability for sure Just concerned about the impact of the Cape Cod bridges on our economic viability I wouldn't use the actual word recognize or acknowledge or I think recognize would be the right recognize the importance
of the impact the Sagamore bridge and the B bridge have on our community Our community Yeah The economic viability of our community I'm just wondering in this
20 11 items here Yeah whether we have something that talks about supporting both the bridge replacement and the route six the Cape Cod bridges and then uh I don't know if we
do so we can add in another item that just says support both those those things I'll look around to see if I have it somewhere I think I might have it under coastal resiliency and title resil for Um Route Six Route six I think I might
have You had the bridges under I think I might have the Route Six bridge underneath Um coastal resiliency under maybe not I'll look around on that Sorry Thank you
Maybe this is the right place for it too Um um number 10 on page 10 is um I think we need to review potential locations and seek funding for installation of the permanent solar powered radar speed signs I think they're very effective but I did hear from Chief Lenin who also
wants us to look about seeking funding for those additional mobile speed trailers as they collect a lot more data They only have one and they have a lot of requests um for them So I added that based on his comments And that we get into climate mitigation
and energy Again I try to maybe reword these things a little bit more Key issues are the high cost of energy and need for energy conservation and efficiencies Uh need to identify additional ways to reduce greenhouse gas
emissions other than rather than just methods for reducing and limited staffing for energy projects and initiatives I don't know if anyone had any edits on that If not I'll move on to number six that that was think was mentioned at the last meeting It's not just Massave but
it's also Cape Save that can do the weatherization and all of those other things They're they're actually going to be links to Massave and Cape in in here It's in there now You just can't tell because it's redlined Um I guess a minor rewarding of
regionalization of recycling composting may be more cost effective or for cost maybe more cost effective not effectiveness No other changes on there I guess on page 13 we get to I'm sorry Kath that's okay Um I fell a little bit
behind on waste management on 11 I thought that um just a suggestion shrinking capacity at disposal areas for solid waste blah blah blah um is is is the issue I I
think and locations capacity and locations maybe Um and then I thought the third bullet um was really like the first one and was more goal like okay to take it out So take it out That would be my
recommendation Yep Kathy do they have a plan for what the the impact of the wastewater plant would be once the flow is once the it's not needed as much as it's needed now i know it needs to operate right at a certain
capacity to be you mean with regard to once we have the source wastewater sludge well I mean whatever the the facility the wastewater facil not the waste water facility plant yeah I'm sorry what's the question so it if I recall going back many years it needs to have a certain amount to operate
efficiently maybe that's not true anymore but I mean once we have the sewers and the haulers aren't going there as often as they are is that facility going to be it's also a regional facility Um I I don't no one's mentioned anything
like that to me that it would be a concern because they had talked about adding that type of ability to treat septage at the wastewater treatment facility but I think they decided to keep it separate for now In fact isn't there an article in on the town meeting warrant to replace the
septage bins there there there is there's a there is a capital There's a capital plan to replace the not replace but to repair the existing collection facilities at that site Um the one thing Kathy touched on is even when our system
are our our sewage system goes online That facility down at the town transfer station is a regional facility Trucks from other towns that don't have sewage systems go there And there's also a need because you can't put grease into a
sewage system So there's going to be a need for other types of collection So that site will still be utilized I don't think we talk about the septage treatment facility in any way and in a goal Well it certainly connects to the environmental
and are you you're thinking we should I'm wondering connected to the wastewater permit you know to the permit and the sorry the wershed permits if I could speak appropriately The whole the whole plan treatment facility Well I mean the the plant and the whole the whole concept behind sewering the town
full stop is is about watershed preservation right but it's I think the question is is continuing with the the um regional transfer station maintenance and up whatever in order to continue to have that available for not just the
county garments but the region Yeah I mean what what the capital plan that the money the town's investing what for that the capital because you know I was on the capital budget as you know and the plan that's in place to repair that collection facility is a 20-year plan So
they're not looking to fix it and say "Okay we're shutting it down next year." They're looking to keep it as a viable entity for the next 20 years I I think the one piece that you know will and Kathy and Joan are touching on about the surge system if we don't mention it the
one thing that we should maybe mention is the fact that the whole goal of this is to denitrify our waterheds to allow those bodies of water to have better quality of life So so maybe I think that'll like that
kind of discussion kind of gets part of the existing conditions because there's kind of like all the statistics and then there's the key issues then what's the town working on right now but also you mentioned it's on it's on page two at the bottom Is it it's on page two at the bottom Very very right
there Page two on action number three Talks about rack Talks about the facility Talks about Yeah it's not the septus treatment facility though This is Oh sorry My bad This is the sewage system separate Oh my bad Okay I got it You want to relink that i just think it's I think it's a valid point that
it's something that we need to continue to invest in at least in the short term while we not only do we have a lot of septic tanks but the region has still has a lot of septic tank But the region is also becoming more soared Once Dennis is so sarred Orleans be sar more of Chad more of Haritch So I mean the there's
gonna be a lot less going into that plant over the years True Yes But we'll take everybody's Greece Yeah I mean right we'll be the place Greece is the word There's another old person Retirement Greece right isn't trust me there's still there'll still be plenty of areas I don't disagree with Peter's
comments but there'll still be plenty of areas that still have a septic system So they need to be pumped regularly to be properly maintained So it's important that that we talk about that I think that's a good point Um page 13 community systems Again just kind of rewarding
things about not fully tapping into our tourism opportunities and promotion of our cultural resources historic sites and structures Um and then kind of the key issue is creating more public art One thing that I did add in on as a new
action item is the the historical commission applied for and received CPA funds to complete a townwide archaeological re reconnaissance survey Um which is really just to basically have more accurate archaeological sensitivity maps of Yarma's cultural and
archaeological resources and artifacts So I just put that's something that's ongoing So I just put that in there I thought this was a good place for it with the cultural heritage Kathy number four is Simkins have a P i can't remember I didn't grow up here Simkin school Yeah Okay Thank you Thanks
Um and then on page 14 under key issues for the economy Mary Wagan mentioned limited child care options which I thought was a good a good one Yeah Great Dearra mentioned um you know not just not capitalizing enough on our MidCape location and abundance of familyfriendly
activities I don't know if anyone had anything on page 14 Moving on to page 15 Um I do know that the whole discussion was at um CEDC about community branding and I do know that that was mentioned at our community
uh meeting that we had in January So I tried to expand marketing efforts to enhance community branding as well as promoting promotion outreach and advertising for events and that type of thing Um number six um I was talking to Mary Wagan about and she was kind of saying
talking about different type of incubator programs and I said "Well how are we going to be able to do that?" And she goes "Well we need more staff." And I said "Okay well maybe we put it under item six where we're talking about additional staff both on economic development and then talking about maybe these incubator programs to help build
industries in town." I do know as part of the muck there's been a lot of discussion about maybe those that that facility could turn you know have some type of incubator facilities and or work live facilities and that type of thing Um so that was I just wanted to be sure that we got incubator programs in there
because I do believe it was mentioned quite a bit Number nine I just broke that out based on a comment um from Ken about the broadband and highspeed internet Um I had it under CEDC below because they had really been concentrating on it I think this will also be something that gets mentioned uh
elsewhere but I highlighted work with because I'm not sure what that actually means What's the real action of working with regional partners to expand access to broadband and highspeed internet and improve competition and affordability i know the commission did their regional
kind of needs assessment um and they had some recommendations at the end and I don't know if we want to reference that in any way or whether we're fine with work with regional partners to expand Yeah I mean just to touch on I mean Kathy you know what I meant by it was you know we do have a spine of broadband
down Route 28 but there's still huge pockets of the town that don't have access to that high speed And it's really about more a you know more availability bringing it into other parts of the town if we want to expand our business area as far as having light
industry they need high speed to make it work So So that's the that's cate um it's you know what is it open Cape Thank you Expand So you were looking at expanding the area for the Open Cape fiber That's right
Through other areas of town Okay I just don't know how that gets done and who does that Yeah I mean it's what we do to make it happen I think part of it is the economic viability of the town where industry want or light industry wants to come
here and needs it That's where the demands You got to have a reason for them to bring the bring the fiber to you And it's not to me it's not just Open Cape It's you know Verizon whoever else you know competitively wants to spend the money to bring fiber
So maybe you just want to say high expand highspeed internet to other areas Yeah that's fine I'm fine with that I just it's an issue I think it's the you know the affordability and competitiveness Oh absolutely I mean you know when I was
running hotels on Southshore Drive we didn't have any high speed down there So trying to do you know credit card charges in the height of the summer was a nightmare You know have to call it in like the old days It wasn't quite that bad but bring
the machine out Believe it or not we had an emergency action plan when the power went out to have those Yeah exactly They had to Those carbons had to go Carbon paper had to go somewhere Um unless anyone has any comments Um on page
16 Mary just wanted to identify that um the affordability gaps impacts 30% of year-round households Um and the key issue isn't just work for it's a limited amount of workforce housing And then you know the key issue is reaching the goal
of 10% affordable housing um on the shi I think we as a town have identified that we are trying to reach this 10% Whether we will ever get there I don't know Yeah Um but but that's something there Um and then I did talk a little
bit um we had talked a little about being more specific like when we're talking about um different committees So number three they're continuing to support the work of the community housing committee and affordable housing trust to reach the 10% goal through continued funding of the affordable
housing trust and staffing of a housing specialist I think Mary does an incredible amount of work and that her position is very important and that all gets funded and and kind of goes through these different committees here And then on the next top of the next page on 17 these all came um
comments that were mostly from Mary Number seven is I um continue to assess and create and execute a vision for the reuse of Madakis Middle School property and evaluate the potential for housing as one component of redevelopment I wanted to put it here because I have it under the economy and I have it under
the recreation and it felt wrong not to have the same comment here Um but then number eight and nine came from Mary about work work cooperatively with housing developers and provide technical support with zoning local regulations town programs and the state's local initiative program And then the last one
is continue to fund and provide housing counseling to the public including home ownership repairs and rental assistance So that's like the CDBG work that she does Um I don't know whether we can maybe combine those all into one related to number three because a lot of this
work is stuff that Mary does um and staff does um as part of their work So people had comments on that No comments Moving on um under town services Um Kevin Lennon said that the
police shooting range was on its way So that that's basically completed and to take it out as a as a concern Um on the next page um again if if I may on that on that one the the fire training facility has has that been
funded Ken not yet Not yet It's also a regional facility that was supposed to have been paid for by the county But it still it still hasn't been funded yet So okay By the county By the county But the location is still opposite or behind the
fire station on Buck Island Uh potential location I'm not 100% station number three behind that Behind it Okay I think I'm going to put in the word regional fire training facility just so that that's clear that that's a regional Did you have anything else Joanne okay
Other than other than in this section here on public safety there's nothing from police and there are no action items from police Well the most of the action items that came out of the interview that we did with the police were related to um the need for additional positions to
be more effectively meet community goals and for public safety I move some of that under government because it doesn't just apply to the police and fire it applies to every part of the town So their main concern had to do with um coming up with ways of being more competitive to attract and retain
employees I just expanded upon that and said in all departments and put that under government but but when you think about the allocation of funding to police and fire it's a significant portion of our town budget
And I'm surprised that Chief Chief Lennon doesn't have a he may have a strategic plan like the fire department does There must be some key issues about you know drug dealing about uh criminal activities
about things that are not good in town or things that are good in town there's been where they could where they're looking to expand their their Facebook presence where they want to have greater communication and transparency with the
community I I'm I'm I'm this is kind of off the top of my head now Um I can think more about it and send you something but I was surprised by the absence of action items and any key issues from the police Yeah Jo I'll just
touch on a little bit from spending a fair amount of time um at the police department during the whole capital budget planning and stuff and talking about that Number one they do have a strategic plan Um that certainly could potentially be portions of it I'm sure could be rolled into this Um but I do
know that their number one issue is Kathy's is being competitive salary wise to attract new police officers from a funding standpoint You know they have police cars are getting you know new specialized you know pistols and all
that stuff Um but their biggest issue right now as Kathy touched on and he did touch on that is that their biggest issue is funding for police the new police officers It's the it's retention and the hiring of new police officers is
their number one issue Okay But you also we also hear sometimes that they want more police because of issues that are arising where they need to address problems that percolate I it's just a general comment I think it's the need for additional positions to be to more
effectively meet community goals and for public safety because that was one of the things that um Chief Lennon had talked about He wanted these two additional um supervisory positions um that he was looking to have filled Kathy as Joint touched on I think it would be a worthy comment to reach out to the
chief and ask if you can get a copy of their strategic plan because I do know there is one The fire department did a great job and it was on you know I was easily able to get that I'll see if I can Google the police one And also the increase in the number of calls for police services that have to do with
mental health issues has also caused the police department to hire I think at least two social workers That's a great point That they never had in the last I think until about two years ago So I think I would imagine that would also be in there Ken I don't honestly it's not number one compared to retention and
attraction um of the police force itself It's certainly right up there That has certainly helped literally has had to create staffing uh positions that they never had before Y not to mention the retraining of current officers and staff in order to handle more mental health calls than they've ever had
Susan knows about that a little bit They work with NAMI the police department Yeah general Mhm I think if they have a strategic plan I think that's very very helpful to us because this is not going to get into the nitty-gritty of the police department is not and it really isn't
intended to the town services section is really um it's not required in the LCP This is something that really came out of the visioning that people were really um concerned about these particular things Most of the public safety from the from the community uh as I recall was was very very positive like they're
doing a great job We love the police you love the fire They're doing doing a lot of good work But let me see what I can find out about the police strategic plan And I can also you know the the the interview with the police and fire chief were done at the very beginning Those were the one of the first interviews
Later as I've gotten down I I I I narrowed down the questions to very specific What are your three key issues and what are they tell me And then what are what are you doing to address these these three key issues and what are the things that you need to think you need to be addressing in the next 10 years so
I can talk to to Chief Lennon a little bit more about that and I'll look at the at the strategic plan and see if we can't can't do something about that But I do think a lot of the concerns that they were expressing in the police and fire related to go municipal government in general So I moved a lot of that up
to municipal government Um again just some small edits there about enrollment at DY Um and then under government actions um about the the um
modifying the town website Ken had a great idea of you know as part of that web redesign including opportunities for user testing and public feedback so that we're creating a user-friendly website that's easy to navigate which it needs to be intuitive It's not intuitive right
now And I think I wish Jim was here tonight for that I think there's a lot of um stuff that people search there and they're they're getting old stuff So I don't know how to get rid of the old stuff Um somebody was filling out a
boardwalk plank for the bass hole one and and for the $150 And I'm like "No sorry No we're not We're doing it We're doing something different now." I And they're like I'm like "How did you even get it?" And like I got it on the website and I've looked for it I'm like "I don't even know where they found it." They probably just Googled it and came
up I you know maybe they Googled it instead of going on the town Yeah Right Yeah that's a good point So there's a lot of those types of things And then also um you know when talking with Bill Scott the assistant town administrator we we in community development have like a project page but people don't know where to get to it So we talk about
having one big project page that just basically has links and then you can go to the sub web pages of each of the topics and and and do that So that was something that I think would be very helpful to people The one thing that's been very very clear I think in all these processes and all these plans is
people don't know all the great things that we have and all the great things that we do and we need to do a better job of getting that and the fact that it is so not mobile friendly it I'll just hopefully that and saying it and saying it it is you're right it is actually mobile unfriendly it is actually mobiley
antagonistic desktop I mean I can't speak to the desktop because well actually I can but then it's not friendly for anybody I don't know the problem the the problem with it with you know the framework is I don't even know how old it is and they're just plugging stuff into an old
framework and it just becomes very cumbersome and it's certainly not your responsibility Kathy but man that website needs to be blown up Yeah And started that's why it's in it's in here because that's not a five minute job No
And it's it's and it needs to be have some serious money spent on it Yep Like if it needs you need to hire a web designer and then you also need to train the rest of us right because I'm hacking away putting stuff on the town website and I could be doing stuff wrong that's
like adding to this weird background of old information I don't know Um there's so many better platforms than what that's even built on today But I understand there's probably state regulations that the town has to meet and all that Yeah But there's other I think there's the basic grade of things and then there's the elevated grade of
things other Cape Town websites that are just superior to ours Most of them I think we could do better Yeah I was trying to be nice about it You don't have to be nice It's just going to need to use it often Conserted amount of effort put into it and it's concerted amount of significant amount of money um
in order for that to be but I feel like when I'm looking like when we did the hazard mitigation plan survey it's like how do people want to learn about it how do you want to learn about this that and the other thing had everything listed and it was the town website was the biggest one and the second one was you know direct email so they sign up for
like a direct email or something like through notify me Um but it's like if we had a fully functional very well easy to navigate website I think that would solve so many of our communication problems It would Um not to mention permitting research
learning about hearings and being able to then look at the details when you file at the conservation commission Well what's what was the packet you know all that stuff Well the great thing about that is that the links the laser fish does help So all the links are there for them I happen to just attach it because
we have smaller projects than they do They couldn't possibly attach it but they have the nice links and you can go right into laser fish and see everything So that laser features really helped a lot So um for the public to understand I just wish sometimes like old Kings Highway and stuff they don't show anything There's nothing If you're in
the audience you don't know what they're looking at you have no idea what they're looking at Um so getting back to to recreation um on page 20 I added a little thing about including beach amenities from Deerra Uh and I think the planning board had some um comments
about not just the capitalizing the benefit of the golf courses but also all of the Route 28 community parks the West Yarmas Park and then the the new U Parkers River Landing And that's Oh my god Is that it we're done Is that it we're done
Any other uh any other comments thank you Kathy Great job Excellent Uh next on our agenda Wait wait wait I'm not ready for next agenda item Still talking else Um just to kind of give you an update um
the affordable housing trust We have the the community planning grant mixed use analysis that we're working on The affordable housing trust had asked for kind of an update on that because they were providing the $25,000 match for it Uh included in your packet the actual um memo that I sent to them Uh I think
we've talked a little bit about the um additional supplemental services that BSC Group is working on They're going to be doing the benchmarking uh for us Uh and they're also going to be looking at our regulations and then they're going to be coming um to us in in June The benchmarking needs to be done by April because that's something that needs to
be done for the next consultant We put out an art that the next page of that because we had put out a quest for cost quotes um to do additional work um to develop a program for mixed use and then come up with some layouts and different um renderings for a small medium large
hypothetical lot uh and then also trying to get together with some type of panel discussion on a fiscal feasibility assessment I think that's something that Bill Scott knows a bunch of people Uh so if we could get people in a room who are successful at doing mixeduse projects they can help us identify what made it
successful for you What what was the thing that helped you was it some type of tax credit was it some type of zoning that helped you what what made your project uh financially viable because I think we have a lot of people who might want to do mixed use and it's just not as financially um viable So one of the things that you have uh in the packet uh
not in the packet but I gave it to you um on the day is was um a project understanding that we rece or the the um proposal that we received and we're very lucky to get one from Union Studios and they were also working with Horsesley Whitten who helped us with the VCOD back
in the day Some of you may remember um and their scope of services is in there So um they're talking about having a kickoff meeting and a sitewalk and then they also are going to start developing uh some of these um programmings for different type of mixed use and going to need to come back to you guys to um kind
of finalize what we're looking for so then that they can start working on the conceptual design and and layout plans What this gets me to is um the benchmarking from BSC Group kind of is what um Union Studios is going to be using to kind of move forward a little
bit So the benchmarking needs to be done according to the contract by the end of April Um so I'm hoping maybe we might be able to have an April 30th planning board meeting so that um Jeff can zoom in and go over the different benchmarking He's probably going to have
like uh eight uh project profile sheets because things are going very quickly We probably won't have them hope I'm hoping we get them the day before so they won't necessarily get to go in the packet too much Um but it might be something at least we can take a look at identify um
think about So I guess a couple a couple asks are um you know if whether April 30th might work for you guys and hopefully we can have quorum And then the other thing that Jeff asked is um when I'm talking to you guys tonight could you ask them
to think of any mixeduse developments or buildings that they like or have seen elsewhere either on or off Cape just simple ideas like there's a great one in downtown Haritch or I saw one in Hudson Um so I sent him something from um a mixeduse development in Hyannis that he
had already had but there's also two really nice mixeduse buildings um on Main Street in Harwitch and I sent him pictures of it and the addresses of it So just you know if you if you know of something that you like what it looks like just um get that information we if we can get that information to Jeff by
Monday I'm on I'm on vacation next week So I think all of you have Jeff's email I I copy him on on all of our our emails that go out So if you have any ideas just always copy me but you can go directly to Jeff I just don't want it to be sitting in my inbox when he would
like to use it to keep moving forward Kathy does Mark have plans remember the tasty buffet site in West Yarmouth the guy was going to move the commercial kitchen supply Kitchen supply Thank you Yeah to that property and also have mixed use upstairs have units upstairs Y
I thought I remember they presented in front of us and I thought it wasn't Yes Yes I you have that yes What I've done also um is it is I have provided them with um either larger projects that are either permitted or have been constructed in like the last 10 years so
that they can do up like little maps of kind of saying these are some of the things that are happening on Route 28 already I think you had talked about a little bit about how no one really knows what's going on and all these different things and they go "Oh that's coming along I didn't know that." So they're going to put that together uh in a in
some mapping for us to identify that And that's one of them that's there And I've included some um the laser fish link for them so that they can get a better idea of what the project um looks like But yeah they they need to go they came to us and got our approval through the road but now they need to go to the ZBA Great
certainly a huge example of its mass reconnaissance of mixed use you know but I'm sure that pieces of that can certainly be done you know in certain locations in town They don't have the site for another Matchby Commons but you
know a small small piece somewhere in the appropriate spot I think would look wonderful We have 70 acres in West German So Kathy you're asking us to put a hold on April 30th Yes Okay is if that's something and maybe we can poll people
to see make sure that we'll have quorum for that because that's to keep things moving and to keep because this community planned grant ends at June 30th So this BSC supplemental work as well as the union studios needs to be done by June 30th Um so they're going to we can't we can't hold them up in any
way Um so in general I think in in uh May and June we're going to need to probably have some extra meetings So if you can keep your Wednesdays free that that would be really helpful because we're going to have a lot of things that they're going to be looking for input from the planning board on in the in those two
months But June 30th I think is something we really need to move forward with the benchmarking kind of doesn't have to be perfect but we got to say okay these are the types of projects that that that we're looking for and talking to to BSC Group because then Union Studios needs to use that Did you say June June 30th i'm sorry Did I say
June 30 that's when that that's when the entire project needs to be completed The next meeting I'd like to meet is on April 30th and I'm get my months all mixed up now I'm surprised they didn't say March 30th I don't know what day of the week it is Can we can we revisit this at the end of the meeting when we
talk about future meetings sure I just didn't want to forget about the phones and look at the calendars Sure Thank you As long as you can all remind me Um and then the other question I don't know whether Will was here but um for the whole thing is if you know of any great mixeduse projects you know just send
them along to Jeff and copy me on them and he'll take a look at them and see how applicable they might be for for a a benchmarking project I really like the ones in Haritch They look really really nice I don't know the details on them but I sent that along I just read about one in Harwitch on Main Street that two
on Main Street there One is is the um Main Street Liquors and then the Food Mart Yeah they did a great job They did a really The buildings look great and they have the the housing on top and it looks really nice Um okay
And so like I say if you look through the scope from Union Studios they're going to be looking for input from you guys and me and and staff and stuff um throughout that process Hoping to be uh all completed by June June 30th I think
that's it So Kathy on the on the the scope um you're talking about the Union Studios Horsely Whitten that you gave us right okay Yeah And this has already been awarded Yeah Yes
Okay I'm really really happy I think they're a good good combo to have We were lucky Sorry to uh cut you off there But I had I had this under correspondence Oh Uh anything else on that on this Kath
for now no I think that's great That's that's everything Um one other thing So moving on to the next item on our agenda the Madaks utilization committee Any updates on meetings or
uh you want me to go back yeah sure Last night we had uh open space that I thought as I commented before the meeting get started It was a very good meeting Um you know certainly there was some discussion some I'll call it fairly spirited discussion on a couple things
Um you know one of it was there is a vernal pool at the Madakis site which totally kind of changes setback a little bit um from right now which is the edge of the current Madakis building as long as the way I understood it and correct
me where I'm wrong Kathy as long as whatever gets redeveloped there is if it doesn't change ownership it could basically go exactly because that does meet the 100 foot setback from that vernal pool but if there's some reason the redevelopment meant new ownership
like the town was to sell the property to Will and Will was going to redevelop it Um then you'd have to meet a 200 foot set back from that vernal pool Um but beyond that you know I thought the discussions were pretty open Um you know certainly they would like to see when I
say they the open space committee would certainly like to see um you know the old buildings be bulldozed and native plants put there and nothing be done with the site And respecting their comments I I certainly push back a
little bit on that Um but they were it was open Um really I thought what they put down as points that they want to make sure that the other committees use as a baseline and whatever gets developed I thought were very fair and
very reasonable in their ass Um and that will be um published by Britney um next Monday I think she said she'd have them done and they'll be on the MUK website at that point Yep This process is literally the definition Madam Chair of competing
interests Yeah it very much is And they're all legitimate because they're all coming from their point of view and they're all championing you know their particular point of view and that's a good thing And the funnel process I think has actually been quite interesting Um and even and I'm I can say that I'm a
guy who hasn't even met yet Um but I just I do find it fascinating No no I just find it fascinating and I I hope it's been healthy for those of us on this committee that have sat through them and I know most of you have I hope that's been a good thing Absolutely I mean I think one of the things for example that was discussed last night
which I found very interesting was all the roof drainage on the current school and some of the storm water drainage not in the parking lot but actually there's some drainage in the back of the building actually flows directly unimpeded into that vernal pool And I
guess when it rains very heavily it's like a fire hose going into that that vernal pool out back which can damage you know plant life and n you know beans of some sort like spotted salamanders
all kinds of things Anyone else have updates well Joanne you and I were both uh involved in housing but I did bring along this where do I put it now this one page We had the
final meeting See you haven't had any and housing has had three And uh this is the uh here you pass it down Um I guess all of them Yeah Um they this is what what we sort of
came up with or they I didn't wasn't very involved I'm just learning But um it's been approved by the affordable housing trust and then we met I think it was just yesterday well two days ago and
um made a few small changes that Mary was going to take to make it final and the the changes were pretty minimal Uh and this is the suggestion that that these types of housing would be put primarily in the northeast corner where
the school buildings are currently Um you mean the Madaki school not the small school Okay Right The MAK school tear down the buildings and build these different uh parts of you know sections of housing and
uh I don't know it's pretty well defined here All do you have an extra one I got one more hand Kathy please You're welcome Sorry Kathy I didn't it
both ways And was there anything else oh and the other thing Oh no That that was that was all I think I did No ownership options in here Yes there the ownership um are These affordable homes those are
ownership The six six affordable homes or 12 in the big in the larger Did you Did you say how many acres this would was this the entire site no this is the estimated to fit on the location
where the Madaki school is now leaving the gym in place but take down the other buildings I think that's how they worked it out It is interesting Go ahead to Ken No no no Will you go well I just you brought up a really good question Susan It which is when you look at this
proposal and again I know there's been a ton of work being put into it It is so heavily skewed towards rental that one of the things that we struggle with from this board and all the other boards we sit on is the ability for folks to own their own home which increases the
possibility that they can then stay on Cape Cod Period Full stop Yeah And stop the chase and the dance of the rental market Mhm And so it is interesting that that that this proposal you know is uh I can only do basic math because I grew up
where I grew up but it's 10% less than 10% is ownership but 90% of it is rental It feels like that is the opposite of what I thought we need rental I don't disagree I just I'm just and I'm just one guy so I know
that this has been vetted by much more intelligent people that spend way more time dealing with the housing issue I'm just surprised that there isn't more of a percentage towards home ownership which to me is about long-term sustainability and the for families and for employees who end up here I just I'm
just surprised It's not a big deal but I'm I'm actually it's a medium deal I would say but we'll see what happens throughout the muck process Dearra sorry Go ahead Yeah and and that these municipal employee rental units right are it was pointed out that they should
be limited to three years so that they're for new employees to have the option of renting and that's kind of to help attract people to the town but limited to three years so they could try and find ownership housing And by the
way I just want to point out like this if if something like this happens it would still be a good thing Yeah Yeah Like I'm not I'm not I'm not arguing that we shouldn't do anything related to housing at the Madaki site but as the debates continue in the in the conversations and the mucking continues Madam Chair I just think it would be
interesting to hear the conversations about rental versus ownership um as it relates to the other issues that we're all interconnected with as planning board members about the viability of the Cape whether it's the bridges or anything else All these things are interconnected And for people to get off
the hamster wheel of renting I would imagine as someone who is fortunate enough not to be on that hamster wheel that's got to be a huge this is a huge opportunity to get some people off of that and to really stabilize a bunch of folks that would really appreciate the opportunity to be stable Sorry Madam
Chair I'm off my high horse now dismounted It's very very expensive to create affordable single family homes I think that the six affordable homes I think the idea was always that we would be partnering with Habitat was a great
partner but that involves a significant amount of volunteer time and free materials and all of that that actually makes it financially viable We would be basically providing the land kind of situation I mean the cost of private development today and building a home
the only way it would work to keep some sort of market rate numbers down would have to go the rental route You know the the cost today to build a home is about 600 bucks a square foot Do the math out Then you know if a private developer is going to make money at it it the number
has to be X Otherwise they're not going to do it What's the average size of a home now is it still 1,200 square ft you can tell that better I could new constru new construction Yeah 18 19 Yeah I think so If you're going to build new three bedrooms and two baths basically right
at least three times 600 a square foot 600 is a good start That's not counting That's not counting land acquisition cost or anything else That's just to build the the physical site once you have own everything else And that's just a baseline number It goes up from there 600 square foot
doesn't get you a lot today I bet you could do the math pretty quick What it cost you any anything else on I was going to one more comment remove um one of the bullet points remove solar panels offsite now to avoid delays Do you have information on the solar panels because we didn't I haven't heard anything I can touch a little bit on
that too Um the solar panels can be moved but they are a bonded site and the bond was 20 years I think on on the panels So there's an issue with that that would have to be resolved before they can be moved but you'd have to resolve the bond before they can get moved Do you know how far how many years
they're into the bond i don't that I don't know if it started in 2014 That did come up It's guessing And somebody pointed out that the intention would be to take them down now because apparently they're not being used since
the school closed No no that's not true That's not true Okay I misunderstood that They the the electricity produced on those panels goes back into the grid Uhhuh So they weren't put there just for the schools So and then they were talking about putting them back when there's new construction on the site but
then someone pointed out that they are halfway through their lifespan now So that might not be very feasible It's always something I think maybe what they were thinking of is those solar panels were actually permitted as an
educational use um to the schools and they wouldn't have gotten the permit if it hadn't been on school property and they didn't have a program of how they were going to be using them I don't know whether that was the middle school people using it or not So maybe that's what you're saying it's not being used Maybe that's what they're
thinking of for educational purposes I don't know at the elementary school level is doing a lot of educational usage of that Okay Um any anything else susan has something You were supposed to meet today
All right Municipal services were supposed to meet today um and look at things but they because the Zoom link was down They didn't meet So I think you're going to be meeting on the 24th And then the muk the actual muck committee met on Monday Big muck Big muk
The big mucks The big mucky moves Bucky bucks It rates itself Madam chair I don't know Yeah And BSC group was there and they went over um their scope of services and had some questions and answer period They give an update on sort of where we are in the timeline and
when some of the next like when are we six months away from some big glorious presentation to the select board i don't know What do you think glorious But I'm trying to make it a positive There's going to be multiple
presentations to the select for you as you go through One of the things that they're going to be talking about at the next muk meeting on in May They meet every I think it's like the second Monday of every month Um is is is reviewing questions for a survey We've got all these ideas We've kind of narrowed it down Everyone's kind of got
some ideas What does the general public think of these and so they're going to be working on a survey that can go out get some information from that of the three of whatever the the the ideas that have been funneled Yes Yes And then there'll be a big other you know you know are there anything you know that
you think that that would and it might be some of the other ideas we've already heard that have been you know discarded because of this that or the other thing Um and then they're going to start looking you know the all the different teams will at that same point be funneling down to their one I think the
survey will be a little bit more generic and probably talk about some of the the the three things Um and then they're going to start you know laying stuff out and coming up with with concept things And we're supposed to be having I think actually before they do that I think uh
at the end of June at the June 26 this room might end up getting booked um to kind of give some type of presentation of where we are what the ideas are from the different teams and and kind of where they go from there Get that public input and then based on that start developing maybe some layouts and some
concept Go away for a while then come back go away probably for a lot of the summer kind of thing and work on that and then come back in the fall They still look like they're going to be done through uh at the end of the year Um but they're only going through and I think they I think Bill had seven phases
They're only going through five phases They're looking for some additional funding to do the like more detailed financial analysis and that type of thing But once an idea is picked then we'll go super deep into the finances and viability of it Got it
Thank you Kathy Yep Thank you Madam Chair The next item on our agenda uh planning board application and document fees Oh yeah All right This kind of came to to me to to
me anyway out of the blue Um I think that they were originally I saw it on the agenda but I thought it was like some department was interested in looking at fees Not that everybody was supposed to be looking at their fees Um so the select board talked about
it on April 1st as a general talkie talk Um but they're actually going to have a public hearing for the first reading on May 6th Um everyone a bunch of other departments in community development we kind of met together um are going have proposed some some modifications to
their to their fees Um one of the things that we did do as a as a department was h how each the old king's highway zoning um concom planning how we did the legal ads and how it got paid for as well as the butter notification varied between all
of us We did some analysis and kind of said what does it typically cost to do the legal ad and to um do the abutter notification I mean basically um it looked like it was about 50 bucks Um so instead of having a separate line item having to keep track of all of that having to make sure for us it was like
make sure that the applicant paid the bill and all of those things we just included it into the application fees So at least $50 of a lot of these are because of that And anything that requires a butter notification and a legal notice um was the additional $50
Um and then I did a very simple math I believe I couldn't find any documentation as to when the last time the fees were done other than I do know that the scenic roads was done in 2011 I think this was 2011 I know it hasn't been done since I've been here since
2012 So just taking the inflation rate googling that from 2011 to 2025 is about 40% So alls I did was take the 250 time the 1.4 add the 50 and I came up with a $400 So all of and the same thing with
the $75 for each lot times the 1.4 obviously don't need to add the 50 that came up to 105 So this is just a very simple basic way of getting on par of what we were getting back in 2011 We do not make a lot of money Our fees are not
significant We don't have that many applications Typically we're probably closer to 200 When we had the um a whole bunch of stuff going on related to the Davenport subdivision I think that was our biggest year like $5,000 and that was like our big money So any changes
isn't going to have a a huge change to the town of Yarm's bottom line in any way shape or form But it does bring things up a little bit more to because of inflation There's three different um permits that we do not
charge anything for or they're Hannah highlighted there the VCOD site plan review um charges nothing now I'm proposing 3 350 um that does not require a butter notification so maybe that could be 300 um private road name change the vast
majority of time that's a vanity project we should get a we should get a fee for that we have to do the public hearing we have to do all this stuff um design review committee we don't charge for that now I kind of don't think we should charge for it it's up to you guys but I just feel like I want people to feel comfortable coming because that
sometimes that's one of the more initial things that come in and we can kind of help mold them and put them in the right direction and um so I probably end up costing them a little money on my ideas anyway and the design review committee's ideas so we don't want to charge them for a fee So that's why I put zero
dollars down there Um the only other thing that I didn't change is you'll see at the bottom under notes note one uh it has related to do with um I'm sorry where is that oh it has to do with subdivision recisions And I
don't know why they're so expensive If the subdivision is greater than two years old they were charging significantly more money $600 plus 275 per lot that can end up being pretty expensive for just a a something that was done um only two years ago So I
don't know whether we want to I didn't mark it up at all because I thought it was kind of high as is and I don't even know whether you want to go back to what it was for just a regular subdivision recision and not have it be specified based on you know if it's over over two years or not So
that's it in a nutshell Um oh one more thing Uh we need to decide tonight because I need to get any of these changes to uh Marial Alice basically after this meeting so that they can uh get it to the Cape Cod Times
in time to publish it on Tuesday so that it's 14 days before when they would have their first public hearing Madam Chair just just a quick comment Kathleen just a little clarification I notice on the proposed changes you don't have plus advertising costs on like you
know any of the ones down the lower part of the page Is that on purpose or just an oversight no it's on purpose because we're doing the lump sum of $50 So I added the the Yeah I mean I I don't think the increases based on the if it was 2011
these prices were were based on I don't think the numbers are outrageous and the as you're well aware the cost of advertising no matter what it is is going through the roof because as we get a good deal like most of our we get a good deal today So right And I think that that was going to be like one of
the caveats that gets put in our cover letter is as long as you know Ganet Publishing continues to and they've been very generous of keeping I think these costs down for municipalities Um but if those were to change then we would have to modify modify the long as that's there
I don't think they're outrageous price changes Madam Chair any comments you want a motion or do you want to just have a general discussion first madam Chair I'm sorry I have a motion Do you want one we need a motion Yes I think it would be great if you would just you know May I have a motion to recommend uh
said changes in the planning board fees that Kathy has presented us tonight on the proposed charges that we recommend to the select board Second Any discussion who you were you you were the first you gave the motion yeah No I may
I have a motion no So Susan you thought you were making okay Nope Susan made the motion and hopefully you give that to me I'll move I'll move that the pro the um change if we're going to change something Why don't we talk about it i
was going to say the mo are we going to change it no we're not going to change anything Let me start again Sorry Do we want to I just don't want to have a motion and amended a motion It's just cleaner if we decide what we're not going to make any changes to the table So may I have a motion to ex to recommend said changes contained in the
table that we discussed this evening on proposed increases in charges for uh fees and permits um and recommend those changes to the select board May I have a motion so moved
Second Second Second Okay That was it was any discussion Miss Bren the opportunity madam chair Any discussion all in favor i sorry about that Sorry my
no not anymore [Applause] Next on our agenda meeting minutes Uh may I have a motion to accept the minutes of April 2nd to uh 2025 we have two sets Oh I'm sorry Start with
November 6 2024 Madam Chair Oh my apologies I'll make a motion to accept the minutes of the planning board meeting of November 6 2024 Second This is discussion This is before Deerra's time Yeah I'm not I can't All right Uh all in favor i
Thank you So it's one abstension Yes You're good at being a clerk I would like to make a motion to accept the minutes of the planning board meeting of April 2nd 2025 Any discussion all in favor it's unanimous Kathy continues her
streak of excellent minutes Madam Chair They really are quite my retirement job I won't call her the Cal Ripken of minute taking but she's getting up there That was a high compliment Okay Appreciate that Any any committee
updates from members madam Chair I have one but Peter you you sounded excited No not I'm not excited I Okay you're not excited I mean I we did I did hear that Karen Green is leaving April 30th So I was going to ask if
there was sort of a any is there anybody come forward yet any sort of plan no one's mentioned anything to me Yeah Yeah Karen Green director of community development is moving on to greener pastures I think she's gonna be working at the Barnstable Land Trust with Kelly
Grant So Kelly stole her So um but she's going to be working like 20 hours a week hopefully Um she has generously offered to continue to work like 10 hours a week here and I'm hoping and I think the town administrators indicated um is
interested in having her do that I think that would be so helpful and very generous of her to offer that just the continuity and she can even help you know when when someone gets hired you know because I don't know her job I know I barely know my job you know we don't have a lot of say you know your job
pretty well I just don't have a there's no um there's not a lot of bench depth so there's like everyone does their own thing and that's what happens when someone leaves then it becomes difficult to to fill in because because of that So having her there for that uh backup would be amazing So
but I know they've advertised the job but I have not heard about anything about um any resumes I'd like to think I'd be on the interview team but no one has approached me at this point April 30th Kathy that's her last date Yes Yeah
It's next week No it's the following week Two weeks Two weeks Tonight it's soon Yeah Sad news Did you also have a committee update no committee update Okay Well I have one Madam Chair The wonderful world of RACK
Uh we met on April 7th And I'll just start with the most pressing thing which is there's still no resolution on the final location of pump station number two which is part of contract six So we we turn along and have faith in
our leadership team at the town of Yarmouth to negotiate a resolution there We still have a few months left well maybe a couple of months left to kind of figure it out so that it won't delay any possible fall start but we'll see
Um okay Um in terms of the work that is going on now the plant the plant work is happening in case anybody has driven by I don't know if you have but there's there's mobilization There's stuff happening The
plant believe it or not is being constructed Um a couple updates about Nancy Oh hi Nancy Nancy is very concerned about the committee Madam Chair She she does interrupt me Okay
Nancy your passion has been noted for the record Okay Um contract two Uh just want to update I guess in general just to talk a little bit about work that's happening this summer because there will be work this summer There will be no work on Route 28 as we know because of this because of
the state road However um there will be summer work um on the pump on the pump station at Old Main Street going that direction Um there will be contract there'll be work on contract three this summershore drive the side streets Okay
be happening through the summer So I apologize in advance but is it is what it is Contract four uh so the the work they had to do at the intersection of 28 and old Maine will be done by Memorial Day However and this is going to be the most interesting and the
most interesting will be that they're still going to continue working at the bottom of Station A and Old Maine through the summer So yeah put that compute that into your brain as you think about driving to the end of Station Avenue and you have that little
merge and you can go left or right Well there's going to be a party going on uh with our contractors all summer long and we Well I guess my street will be used Yes madam chair I don't I'd rather Well we the cut through We make it a policy not to know each other's home addresses
Anyway it's for the best So at the end of station AB where it hits Old Bane Street North Main sorry North Main My apologies That's there's going to be a party There's going to be a Robert Bour party making U-turns and then there's going to be all kinds to Highland A I certainly
hope that detourred before you get to that point I think that that is the my understanding and Jeff Colby and and and um why can't I think of her name the other nice lady Lori Lori they say they have a plan They say they're going to communicate it I apologize in advance to
all my friends that live and including Madam Chair for your sisters who are going to be right lemonade stand Madam Chair let's make lemons out of Let's make lemonade out of the situation Literally Um so I just want to give you all a heads up on that You may want to tell your friends and neighbors Um let's
see Other stuff has to do with Bayberry Hills Um still ongoing work with Mass D The good news is Kathy loves hearing about grants Uh we got a nitrogen sensitive area grant from our friends at Mass D So they're not all terrible um
for 150,000 to help pay for the monitoring and the drilling that we had to do to kind of make sure that where we're want to put all this I'll just say water um is actually appropriate So they're going to help pay for it through
June 30th I believe And there have been some test holes and studying going on It's it's quite a party over there More partying Um the last thing is that we started to talk about is phase two and I don't believe there's going to be
any discussion or sorry any special town meeting vote is at least at least a year away maybe 18 months away However um I would just put it out there to everybody that what you see as phase two on the
boards everywhere is not necessarily where phase two is going to be And before you start ringing your own alarm bells some of this is not really up to us because of the watershed permitting because when it was proposed x number of years ago and the density and the usage
and the flow all these things are constantly shifting And of course the number one job for this whole project is to help make our estuaries healthier And so we have to start talking about phase two because at some point we're going to have to go back to the citizens of
Yarmouth to pay for it Um and we then have to can't just come back to the citizens and say "Well it's going to go over there." We have to have a little more of a precise location So it's going to take several months for for this committee to to to work with the town
officials and our consultants to make sure we're meeting the needs of the permitting the watershed permitting as well as balancing all the other little nuances When you start thinking about Madakis use committee when you start thinking about libraries when you start thinking about I'm just going to say it the project on Forest Road there's just
a lot of there's there's just a lot of moving parts that both intersect with the sewer plan and also the sewer plan influences those projects as well So um fascinating times on the rack not just
managing what's currently happening and is being done I think to a very fine degree by our town staff but I think now some of the more what I consider to be intriguing work is about how do we manage all these competing interests um as an advisory committee but still the ones that spend the time to to work on
it And I think with our engineers and with our town staff um we will certainly come up with a plan for phase two Um but I'd just like everybody to know that the process has started about thinking about where it's going to go Um and obviously as an if you all would like to
participate or folks that you know or organizations that you work with would like to participate in those conversations I think we're still another month or two away from having real substantive ones but they're on the horizon Um so if you'd like to participate we meet the first Monday of
every month at the DPW from 4 to 5:00 pm Um and it's on Zoom as well So I know that was a lot but um I think it's an important update in terms of just where we are in the big picture Did they say when they're going to stop for the summer june 1st June 15th It's
everything I've been told is Memorial Day In terms of Route 28 Memorial Day They went into June last year That's why Yes But that's that's because they negotiated with the state and they said if you can just give us two more weeks we're going to be able to do more I'm not So I haven't heard that they're going to be doing that this time
Everything we've been told is Memorial Day but I will come back and share if that changes because we'll have a meeting in the first week of May So I'll be able to talk to you everybody here and give you any more news as I have it Thank you You're welcome Joanne can I ask one question sure I
hope I know the answer No no I just a question Do you know if they're going to do any more temporary resurfacing of 28 yes Well you know what that's a really good question That that question has been gets brought up at every single meeting And I think I think it's fair to say that Jeff and and Lii are doing a dance especially with that one
especially with Ravoli in West Yarmouth And it isn't I would say my answer is it's not clear if there's going to be further paving before Memorial Day It's not the answer I wanted to share but that's and I'm glad you brought it up
However unclear is like a magic eightball It does mean it could also go the other way which it could turn out to be a positive right but I don't have anything definitive Okay Thank you Madam Chair You're welcome Anything else yes I have a little more
from we had a housing committee meeting Monday and in addition to most of the discussion was the MUK information that I just shared but there was also a presentation from Habitat for Humanity And you folks are probably all familiar with this project but it's new to me
that there is it under consideration a a plan to put six habitat houses almost across the street from here So they just went over uh the nature of the houses They would be
um small two and threebedroom houses on two different designs and that the process is very long because there are so many uh application processes and home interviews and a lot of different things that go into setting up a a
Habitat community And um it was very interesting I don't know how much I should how much I need I should have paid more attention to share with you or uh how much does I don't know if I can answer any questions but I could try
Madam Chair can I ask a quick question of course Um I did listen to the select board meeting last night and I think it's on the town meeting warrant is that there's going to be a town common study on the meeting on the special on the town meeting warrant and the town common pro town common area is basically across
the street Yeah And this is so it'll be interesting right but it'll just be interesting to see as that process goes on how that how all these things interact No Um I'm not assuming anything passes or doesn't pass the town meeting It's beyond my my my purview but I do think it'll be interesting for you to
pay attention to as it relates to that project And then one other thing in is that the select board is having a housing workshop next week that you've probably all heard about So
it's on um the 22nd at 6 PM in this room Just and I think there's going to be representatives from different organizations that are Do you have the draft uh somewhere in here I brought it Yeah it's going to be
uh the Donahghue Institute and the Affordable Housing Trust and then Barrett planning about the MUK issue and then the housing authority Those are the four scheduled
presentations And the Donnu was on short-term rentals Oh right Yeah Right Okay Thank you Dra All right Anything else i had two quick things Madam Chair at the end Um I'll wait till you're
ready Uh any any correspondence or staff updates Kathy i'm reminding you about Mr Tally Yes I have some staff updates Um I think you know have all heard about some difficulties that uh a local lobsterman has had with zoning with regard to
selling lobsters uh at his private residence Um so I think what we're going to try and do is I think as a community we're a sea uh a coastal community it's it's perfectly understandable that you know a fisherman who has fish or
shellfish or lobsters who has their own catch maybe we can do something to modify the zoning to allow those particular types of uses to happen in a residential neighborhood under maybe a special permit from the zoning board of appeal but some way allow it to happen
Um so I think that's something that I think Mr Writtenau was going to reach out to this gentleman and see whether maybe he wanted to come to the planning board maybe at our next meeting at least for an initial discussion be get a better understanding of what he does and what his needs are and kind of see how
it balances with how we know of our particular community and then maybe we can work on some um language for the fall special town meeting to address that issue So I wanted to bring that up And boat storage I think is another Before you leave that section what what
element of the of the zoning bylaw would this most probably be an amendment to there's been a couple discussions Some people have talked about maybe home occupation I don't know whether we want to actually do it there I'm kind of thinking of maybe more as a note in the
use table of making it um clear that it could be done uh retail of these particular types of things could be done through a special permit from the zoning board of appeals Um one thing that that always is going to come up and it came up when we did um the food trucks is some type of signage So
maybe this is a case where you know when you're in operation you can have one of those a a board signs that you put out when you're open on your property I think this whole kind of came to um the knowledge of the town um because
of off- premises signs that were being put out all over the place It was directing people and all of a sudden we got people saying what is this they not supposed to do that We can't do off- premises signs That type of thing So it kind of brought attention to this So I think if we need to be sure that there is some type of signage that could be
done on that I'd like to think it can be done through a note someone with a commercial fishing license who has a commercial retail sale license brick and mortar because he's not selling it out of his truck or at the at the dock that type of thing There's a bunch of things I'm kind of learning about don't know that much about but I feel pretty
confident that we could do something that's reasonable that would be related to fishing and shell fishing and and and that type of thing um to allow that to happen in a reasonable way Captain the other thing that came up was the is there any involvement from the Department of Health yes Fish being out
there So that would be maybe something we could consider as if we decide to do anything is to have some sort of review from the department of health because especially since it's fish Yeah they they're required to get a um a permit from the health department
which I don't believe that they have Um so yes I mean obviously anytime selling something we it needs to be inspected make sure it's properly refrigerated all the things that we do for our restaurants and that type of thing Um so any anything that we've been you know is obviously contingent upon all getting
all and there state regulations uh you know meeting all state and local regulations with regard to that We're just talking zoning and we're just talking signage and we would be just talking the use in a residential zoning area So it it wasn't pre-existing then it wasn't allowed to continue My understanding is the analysis that was
done was that it was not pre-existing and it agricultural uses could occur right if they wanted a farm stand food vegetable stand that would be allowed right residential I don't know It depends on the size of their lot Um
everyone can always go to the farmers market I think they have stalls there You can always sell things there I'm not going to get into the analysis that was done before and what's allowed and not allowed but I think we can address this probably through relatively simply and I just wanted to bring it to your attention and make sure that you guys
are comfortable you know inviting someone to come and have that conversation with us at our next meeting Because you the zoning took a very strict view of that Um as a courtesy do we reach out and tell them
that we may invite him here to to testify i mean do we want are we undercut testifying he's not testifying They testify It's an informationational session Correct Conversation Are we undercutting the zone by doing that meaning the CBA no Their decision Susan
Pardon me They made their decision No I know And it was a good decision I think But but if if we No I understand was the it was it was a closed issue And Tally said if you want to appeal it go to what I think you said some state board If we
invite this gentleman here even for an information session are we questioning what the are we undercutting are we criticizing no they're just enforcing what we wrote in the zoning bylaw that was approved at town meeting by our residents We can propose to change it That's right And
that's how I decide to not vote for it or vote for it That's exactly how I look at it Susan and rest of the borders We're finding more information to prop potentially change what we're what the zoning is allowable right now I do think having home business going there I I
think that's a slippery slope I really do I think if we're going to do anything it should be noted as here's a direction You have to go to ZBA to get you know if it's allowable an allowed use Okay So you're comfortable with that
just just going to tell Mr written hour that the planning board be happy to have them come to the May 7th But if I heard you correctly in terms of the timing of this gentleman being able to resume sales it will have to wait until a fall town meeting happens and any proposed
changes are then passed I think to and he then goes to the zoning board to appeal to apply for a special permit I think he has the ability and I don't know these are things that we'd have to learn but I think he has the ability to sell his catch out of his truck It's
just it becomes a brick and mortar when it come when he brings it to his home and he's not selling it at the dock Got it This distinction that I didn't know anything about Right And notwithstanding whatever as Susan brought up before whatever legal remedies he wants to pursue on a parallel basis about the
zoning board's decision that has nothing to do with the conversation here about updating the use table Yeah The recent problem he had with the zoning board of appeals is it was a repetitive petition He's doing everything So could he then go before the the
um and this the ZBA has done this in the past go before and maybe ask for a variance from the home occupation which is totally different a one-year variance to get them through Maybe we would we would write something saying you know the planning board is looking at this
We're interested in making a change at fall town meeting and would be supportive of allowing whatever you guys want to do um in in order So that's one option It's a different request It's shortterm And they've done it before like when someone was living in their um
an RV on a property Like they understood the hardship and they said "Okay we're going to let you stay there for another four months or something and and let that happen." I don't know what the lobster season is but you know we could do something along along those lines if if he wanted to pursue that Again I don't know how the ZBA would feel about
it but they have given those short-term relief um for hardships in the past So I don't know Um so unless there's no other questions um one of the other things that seems to keep rearing its head is
the whole issue of boat boat storage We had looked at that back in 2019 Um and when we presented it to the select board they univer unanimously voted to not recommend it I think there were some concerns about whether the um allowing the boats in the driveway was something
that were just going to be during the boating season so people don't have to try and maneuver their boat around in weird places on their property or maybe they don't even have a place on their property and whether it was going to be having a bunch of shrink wrapped boats in in people's driveways all year round So I think that might be something we'll
take another look at and maybe it's a case of we're allowing it during the boating season to put it in your driveway because that's when we mostly get the complaints about it but then maybe not allowing if you want to do some long-term storage you then you need to be sure that you can that one time a year you can maybe do that maneuver to
get it to where you need it to be on your property So that's something that's probably coming up And then the one thing that I have been like not looking at is the accessory dwelling unit Yes that was literally the one I written down Yeah I know So town council Yep So
now through June is going to be horrible because we're going to have a lot of things going on with the community planning grant and and that and then uh Jeff's going to have drafts of you know the existing conditions and all of that stuff's going to be going on Um so probably other than the the
um the lobster issue I think we probably wouldn't be looking at that talking about these things again until like the summer just because we need to get past June we need to finish We need to get you'd be able to use all of that community planning grant use that money up So that's that's all I have to say
about that Okay Thank you Kathy Uh again uh just a recap on meetings Uh next week the April 22nd the housing workshop April 29th is the town meeting uh April
30th um uh we'll we'll plan on having a meeting and then we meet with the select board on the 6th Correct And then we would have our first planning board meeting in May on the 7th Madam Chair yes do we want to make sure everybody
can come to April 30th yeah we were going to Yes that's that's exactly where we are Suggested we we do do a calendar check on that I'm available Yeah I'm I'm good I would say I'm 50/50 It doesn't help I am 50/50 as well but I
just I I don't I don't know It's just one of those things where we need to you know I get the need for it I just But quorum now thanks to Deerra Quorm is now four Sorry Quum was always quorum was always four You know what I meant i meant something positive about Deerra
now being here No we we love having seven We only had six people Oh right I guess it didn't matter right so dear Jo we're glad you're here Um I I think I'm free on the 30th Yeah So at least And you Susan and Joanne you're good I'm
good Joan's is Susan good i don't know yet You don't know yet all right We We need to check with Jim Yep I'll send an email Well 50/50 is not is not is not a negative thing Could be a positive thing
but you could keep on us Okay about it I'm on vacation next week Oh well then don't keep on You're on your own You're on your own Well then whose fault is it okay Um if we don't show up but May 7th is still going to be a
regular fun time and May 21st As far as we know as far as I know there are no other additional meetings except for April 30th Correct Right now Okay Keep it keep in mind that we will we may need to meet when when they're when the consultants come up with product that they need our
input on They're going to need it right away because we have such a short timeline to get the work done before the board forward June 30th Okay So some flexibility would be app Well I guess what I would say is it may there just may be more Zoom I may have to participate more by Zoom but that's fine Okay Okay Thank you Madam Chair Any
other qu questions on the meetings schedule okay Uh so may may I have a motion to adjurnn be second A second Yes All right Any discussion i Oh sorry All in favor got I
Sorry