Good evening. How's everybody doing tonight? >> How are you, Mr. Chair? >> Very good. Very good. Are we ready to go, >> Dolores? Yes, Mr. Chairman. We're ready when you are. >> Okay. Very good. Good evening, everyone. My name is Sean Iiggo. I'm chairman of
the zoning board of appeals. We will now convene the October 23rd, 2025 meeting of the Yama Zoning Board of Appeals. This is a hybrid meeting and it's being recorded. We will begin by taking a roll call for a quorum. Mr. Martin,
>> I am here. >> Mr. Meets, >> I am here too. >> Mr. Manoni, >> here. >> And Miss Murphy, >> here. and I'm here with a quorum present. I will now call the meeting to
order. Uh we have two matters on our agenda tonight. The first one is petition 5198. That's Irene Holmes of one parsonage point, the Armthport, Mass. It's in an R40 zoning district. The applicant seeks
a variance from section 203.5 for side setback relief to construct an elevated stairway to Elijah's pawn. I see we have a petitioner with her council. Good evening.
>> Good evening, Mr. Chairman. Members, >> can you identify yourself for the record, please? >> Sure. Um, for the record, my name is Paul Tardiff. I'm an attorney in Yarmouthport and seated with me is um Irene Holmes who's the owner of One Parsonage Point in Yarmouthport and
she's the applicant tonight. >> All right, please proceed. >> Thank you. Um and as you indicated, we are seeking a variance uh for the to allow for the construction of a set of elevated stairs which will encroach into both side setbacks. Um, this propertyy's
in the R40 zoning district, um, which requires lots obviously to have 40,000 square ft. Uh, a 30-foot front setback, 20ft side setbacks, and a 20ft rear setback. The property, uh, in question here at one parsonage point contains 12,180
ft, is improved with a single family dwelling, which was built in about 1975. Um, and as you can see from the plan, this lot is uh oddly shaped in that it is designed as a pork chop lot. Um, usually we see these lots um, which
reach out to the street for frontage and have a large buildable area further in the back. Um, in this case it's reversed. We have the long neck of the lot which is 10 ft in width reaches to the rear of the property uh, on aious pond. Um, the elevation change on this
lot is pretty drastic. uh about 34 ft from the top of the proposed stairs to the 20 to 20 ft at the base uh over a distance of 34 ft um proposed stairs to be uh well obviously
it's not going to be able to meet any of the setbacks here in the neck. So we're only talking about construction here uh in this area right down here. Um, the Yarmouth Conservation Commission has approved this plan for an elevated set of stairs in order to preserve the
vegetation. I think you have a memorandum in your file uh indicating why it couldn't be a ground level set of stairs. If it was, by the way, we would not need relief uh according to the building department. But because it's elevated, we do. Um but
the purpose of the elevated stairs is to allow for the drainage, allow for growth of uh vegetation below the stairs to keep the banking um tight so that it doesn't wash away. Um it should be noted um that they have
issued uh the order of conditions. We we have that. So um so that's good. Um, we also submitted this to the Old King's Highway and indicated that it was exempt. It was, you know, you cannot really see it from any roadway. They agreed they issued the exemption. I
think you have a copy of that as well. Um, so because it is being constructed within that 10-ft wide little neck, uh, we need to, uh, seek a variance tonight. Uh, as you know, under section 2035 and by extension 1022,
um, this board can grant a variance. uh in cases where you find the following three criteria. One is uh a literal enforcement of the provisions of the splar would involve a substantial hardship financial or otherwise uh to the petitioner or the appellant.
The hardship is owing to circumstances related to soil conditions, shape or topography uh of such land but not affecting generally the zoning district in which it's located. And three, desira desirable relief can be granted without uh substantial
detriment to the public good or nullifying or substantially deraggating from the intent and purpose of the bylaw. It's my belief that the applicant can demonstrate all of these requirements and in fact this is the exact kind of case where a variance should be granted. First, the applicant
purchased this property over 35 years ago. uh has been enjoying her access to Alicia's pond over that time by traversing that hill uh on foot. Um she now finds it difficult to negotiate the steep grade uh and without the set of stairs, she's really going to be
procluded. Um she indicated to me that as long as there's a railing that helps her get up and down, it's easy, but when you're on the dirt itself, it's very difficult. um uh being unable to utilize her property to the fullest extent and the way that she's been accustomed to using
it as as far as I'm concerned is a hardship. It also if you can cannot get up and down to the pond which has pond access uh the value of your property obviously is going to be diminished. Um I can tell you that if the panhandle portion of this lot were reaching out to the street like the old traditional and
she couldn't get to the street, a variance would most certainly be warranted. Second, the applicant's hardship is directly owing to the circumstances relating to not only the shape of her lot, but also the topography and the soil conditions. She meets all three. I
don't think I've had a case in my years where you have all three in uh, you know, in on the plan here. Um, there's not another lot like it, a malicious pond. I checked all of the assessor's maps for this pond and the neighboring ponds and I don't see
another lot anything like it um with the neck reaching down like that with the the set of uh the the the steep grade on that property. It just doesn't exist out there. Um the um the uh the
steep slope to the water makes it uh obviously obvious necessary for the elevated staircase in this case and it's elevated directly related to the soil conditions as noted in the conservation commission memo that you have that they didn't want to um wash this whole um
slope out and that's why it's elevated. Third, desire desirable, that's a hard word, desirable relief may be granted without either substantial detriment to the public good or deraggating from the intent and purpose of the bylaw. First, uh permitting a set of stairs not visible from the public way is not
detrimental to anyone at all. In fact, having the conservation commission approve this plan in advance in order to protect the great pond uh is a benefit to the public good. Second, the intent or purpose of the zoning bylaw is recited in section 100 of our bylaw, which states that the
purpose of the bylaw is to promote the health, safety, convenience, and welfare of the inhabitants. Providing a method for the applicant to utilize her property and enjoy the pond is not going to deriggate from the purpose of the bylaw. Um, we believe
that the project is in keeping with the purpose of the bylaw, meets the requirements, and the variance is warranted in this case. So, if you have any questions in this regard, um, happy to answer them if we can. So, thank you for your time. >> Thank you very much, uh, Attorney Tara.
Uh, I do have a memo dated October 9th, 2025, addressed to us from Joe Gerolimo, the conservation agent. Uh it says regarding petition 51998 one parsonage point Yarmouthport at its
August 7th and August 21st 2025 hearings. The conservation commission heard a notice of intent for proposed wooden walkway over an existing foot plant at Alicia's pond in the buffer zone of a BBW
which BBW stands for bordering vegetated wetland inland bank bordering land subject to flooding and NHSP which if those of you that don't know what NHSP means it's the national heritage endangered species program
estimated in priority habitat. The commission issued an order of conditions. The approval plan set proposed site plan stairs was last revised on August 1st, 2025.
That's all I have. Um we're going to go to the board for some questions. Uh Barbara, do you have any questions for the petitioner? >> Um no, I don't think so. So, it looks pretty straightforward to me. >> Okay. John, do you have any questions
for the petitioner? >> Not really. Just uh I guess what I would ask is has there been any opposition to the petition? >> One of Butter showed up for the or at least appeared in some fashion at the Conservation Commission. Um it's the uh a butter here.
>> Watts. Is that the Watts? >> I think there may be somebody in the audience too. >> Yeah, we'll get there. >> Yeah. And um I know that they received a phone call from the neighbor on this side as well today. >> All right. Other than that, I don't have any questions about the petition itself.
Thank you. >> Okay. Uh Dick Neats, do you have any questions for the petition? >> No, I don't think so. I think it's it it it's laid out pretty well and I'm happy that they've gone to conservation and got their uh blessing and approval and
and good justification, but I too am, you know, concerned and and anxious to hear from the abuters as to the impact it might have on their lives too. So, um I'll listen intently. >> Okay. Thank you. Uh Dick Martin, do you
have any questions for the petition? >> Uh don't think so. the path going to be relocated onto the lot where it strays. Otherwise, I I see >> that's correct. >> Um, no. I mean, I think as long as there's no big issue with the neighbors and so
forth, this is uh uh the erosion that's going to occur from a path going down there is much worse than having a stairway. So, uh plus the stairway allows uh sunlight to get through and and rain, so there can be vegetation underneath as
well. So, uh I think it's a uh a reasonable request and does as the uh petitioner's attorney says meet the meet all the potential criteria. >> Yeah. >> Okay. All right,
>> Mr. Chairman. Um, >> yes, >> I'm I'm sorry to interrupt you, but um on that memorandum from Joe Gerro Limo from conservation, there was a revised memo >> um and it included everything that you read, but it also included a couple of
other sentences that um I don't know if it's significant or not, but just talking about why this walkway being above the ground rather than on the ground is um has less impact on the um bank. Okay. I thought I read something on that
myself, but I didn't have didn't see that in my packet. >> Yeah, Mr. Chairman, you would have received it via email. It was revised after the package. >> Oh, I see it. Okay. Um, is that something you want uh read into the record? >> I don't need it read into the record. I
think it's it's part of the record and um that's fine. I just didn't want to let that go without making sure you knew about that. >> Okay. Well, thank you very much for bringing that to my point. >> Welcome. >> I don't have any questions myself. I think it was uh
as presented, I think it answered any questions that I might have. Um I think what we'll do right now is we're going to go to the public and is there anyone that wishes to speak in favor of this petition? If so, please come to the
microphone. Seeing none, is any Is there anyone with their hands up? Dolores. Um, we live on. We have to come up to the microphone. >> Is this in favor? Ma'am. >> Um, my name is Laurel Wilson. I live on
the pond. Um, within view of what you're um talking about. And one of our big concerns was uh the Plymouth gentensions that grow in the water all around the edge in that area as well as in front of
our house and in some other parts. But um >> I didn't understand what you said. What grows on the edge? >> Plymouth gentions. They're um uh protected
flower that grows in the water, grows up, and then has a very pretty uh daisyike top, but it's protected by the state. And that would be our concerns is, you
know, as more and more people seem to want to use the pond, which is fine. Um, you'd have to be careful that those plants aren't there. >> Would wouldn't that be the jurisdiction of the conservation commission when they reviewed it?
>> I guess it would. You know, I I don't know because some people don't care about flowers in the pond. Well, usually the conservation commission does. I you know I just
>> Okay. Well, I I'll just let you go on then. >> Thank you for your comments, ma'am. >> Sure. >> Would anyone else wish to speak either in favor or against this petition? Please come to the microphone.
>> There's someone coming, Mr. Chairman. >> Okay. Hi, my name is Timothy Walsh. better to uh Irene and know each other a long time. Um my mother Ununice Walsh
purchased the land um on the one of the abuing lots um in 1980 and we built a house there. Um and um
may I bring something to you a picture? Is that okay? We would need >> Why don't you make your point please sir? >> Sure. Um so as much as we like Irene um
I feel that this would impact my privacy um it's like 15 ft from the back um slider door of the house. There's a patio right there too. Um if the
staircase is built um anywhere on that 10 foot, but the proposal is to build it like within a foot of my lot line, that would mean my back patio. Um I would have no privacy sitting there. There's
an outdoor shower there uh on the back side of the house. Um there's view from the living rooms and the bedrooms and that would just wind up being the staircase in particular um with it being
elevated as well. Uh it would be um sort of blocking the view um out those windows and um the path is so narrow. Um, I worry that if you know once the stair once the
staircase would be built, there would be it would be there for who knows how long. And so any future owner of the house would um have kind of this attraction of a staircase if if it was the house was rented out for the summer or Airbnb or
anything. Um there could be a lot of traffic uh people standing on the staircase smoking. whatever. Um, and I feel like that would not just disrupt my privacy,
but um, cause a security issue with, you know, people, it's 10 foot wide, someone could wander onto my property, um, and make inhabitants of my house uncomfortable. Um, and I feel like as much as I like
Irene, I I I just can't be in support of this because I think it would harm my property value and my um privacy. >> Okay. All right. Well, thank you very much for those uh that statement, sir.
We'll certainly take your concerns into consideration. >> Can I May I um bring some Okay, I'll just bring this up. What is it that you have there, sir? >> Um, just a packet of photos. Just like the view from
>> Okay. >> All right. Why don't you hand them to the uh the gentleman in the uh into the >> right in the middle, sir? >> In the middle here, >> Mr. Hand them to the gentleman in the red sweater or to the to his left will be fine.
>> That's the view. Okay. Thanks. And we will stamp those as an exhibit. And if I can ask one of my board members what that picture proposes to purports to be. It it looks like it's a view
um from his sliders. >> Yeah. So um >> the back of the house view from the proposed staircase. >> Yeah. So that that is um a picture I took from where the staircase is marked out to to be. >> Thank you.
>> And so is the next picture. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. And then there's just um a photo out of a window just kind of looking >> at what the foliage is and the >> Yeah, that's the bottom that's the um bottom bedroom there and the and the
picture out that window and you can sort of see some property lines and the marked out of the staircase. So sort of be a view there. >> Okay. >> And this is your patio? >> Yes. Yep. >> Okay.
Wow. >> So, where's the path? Right here where the bar stakes. >> Yeah, it looks like we're there's a steak there. >> So, wouldn't there be a lack of privacy right now if someone was on that path?
>> No one is ever on that path. So then I don't what's what's the concern? >> So um they they don't they have never used a that the strip of land. Um, but if
there's a staircase, I think you would agree that um there would be more use and the um if if the house was in the future uh rented out or something, weekly rentals, my my concern would be
that there would be a constant flow of people um on the on the um staircase And that would be right outside of my patio and in view of um
very close. It's 15 ft from the uh side of the house. It's pretty close. >> So, sir, if I may ask you, that lot line that we're looking at, that's your lot line right there? That is one the the
house that you see in the >> I see it says a budding dwelling but the lot line that's right beside the stair the proposed staircase. That's your lot line right there. >> Correct. Yep. >> And do you know the distance between that lot line and your house?
>> Uh about 15 ft to the um side of the house. >> Wow. >> To the side of the house. >> Yeah. So, the where the staircase is on this map, um the the staircase is about
like I six inches from the lot line, I would estimate. And and so the um then there's like maybe five feet to where the patio is and then maybe 10 feet to the house. Okay. All right. Does anyone have any
questions for the uh butter? >> No. Okay. Well, thank you, sir. We'll we'll keep these pictures those for us. >> Yeah, of course. We Yeah. U Mr. Chairman, there's also a Trish Egan who has her hand raised and she's online, sir. >> Okay. All right. We'll hear from her if
she could identify herself for the record. Her name and address. >> Hi, good evening. My name is Trish Egan. Uh I am the abutter at 826 West Yarmouth Road.
>> Okay. Um so all right. >> So, uh tell us your comments, please. >> Sure. First, I'd like to thank the board for their time tonight. Um, I wasn't aware that this was moving
forward uh until I got the postcard in the mail. The last discussion we had with Irene and Nancy was that they were not going to pursue the staircase. So, was kind of surprised when the postcard came in the mail. Um,
I guess I have two points. One is that I kind of want to put on record that in the drawing that was submitted the old I'll call the old foot path that went onto my property.
I disagree with that um depiction. I I don't believe there's a foot path down there. And I certainly never gave permission for anyone to use our
property down there. >> And where does your property line line run me? I I I see I think I see where you are. I I see West Jamoth Road um Parsonage Point.
And so you, if I'm looking at the plan, if you're if you're on West Jamoth Road, your house is to the right of this house. Is that correct? >> Um, on the opposite property line of Tim,
>> right? Okay. So, that property line that runs down on the other side is your property line, >> correct? >> Okay. All right. Um, so that was my first comment. The the second comment I had, and I I spoke
to um Irene and Nancy about this today, is I don't understand the need for a a bench or any area on the staircase to congregate. Um,
if if the goal is access to the pond, I the bench on the property line I I don't think is needed.
All right. Um, is there anything else you'd like to add, ma'am? >> Uh, no, that's all. >> Thank you for your time. >> Hold on a sec. Does anyone on the board have any questions
for this? I I just wish I I I had a better feel for where the Is it Is it the um dwelling that's shown as a budding dwelling? Yeah, >> that's yours. >> Right here. Yeah. >> Okay. >> South. >> Okay.
>> And that goes back quite a ways from the street. >> Goes all the way to the pond. >> It goes all the way to the pond. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Wish I had an assessor's map. Dick. Dick. Just This is Mr. Walsh's property right here.
Come >> here. I can't see the just just >> this is Mr. Walsh's property. He spoke first. >> Yep. >> And this is Mrs. Egan's house right here. >> Okay. >> So, they they are on either side of that 10ft uh >> how high did you say this uh staircase
is going to be? >> I think according to the plan it is Maybe maybe six feet off the ground. >> Six feet off the ground. >> Something like that. It's not even I mean you can see the contour below and >> it's not you know to the railing it
might be a little bit more but to the staircase it's less. And to address her question, what's the need for the bench? Just to >> well um >> rest spot. >> The first thing we have is a landing there and um we need to break up this
those stairs because it gets tiring. Um having a twoft canolvered bench 4t wide. It's eight square feet. You can put about two people on it. So you can at least get a glimpse of the
pond. and sit and enjoy it for a few minutes. It's a set of stairs. >> Yeah. Okay. Thank you. >> Uh does anybody have any questions for uh the abuter? Miss Regan?
>> No. Okay. Well, thank you very much for your input, ma'am. >> Thank you. Do we have anyone else that wish just to speak regarding this petition? >> Seeing none, um, council, is there anything else that you would like to
add? Yeah, I I'm just constantly amazed by the willingness of a Butters and neighbors to oppose projects like this when they enjoy the benefits previously issued by by this board. Uh Mr. Walsh owns a property received a benefit of a
variance from this board to allow for a twoft encroachment into that side setback toward our lot line. His property is 28 ft I'm sorry. Yeah, 28 ft from um the um where the stairs are going to be. So, if the patio is in
there, I didn't see anyone from the conservation commission asking why that's there. >> Con Mr. Chairman. >> Yes. Go ahead. I'm sorry. Please don't interrupt. >> Uh, Mr. uh the the the conservation
commission also gave relief to allow uh for that house to be built. Um, and the lot was also the benefactor of a board of health varants in 1987 to allow a septic system to be installed. Um, so
why a set of stairs is going to be interfere in any way, shape, or form with privacy is beyond me. Miss Egan's property is 10 ft from this side set back and 10 ft from the other side as well. Um she also has a 340 square ft
deck on the back of her house that she can um use to look at the pond and her set of stairs goes down that same steep embankment but has a 10x10 deck at the top of it. So you know again everyone can get down to the water safely. Um
Miss Holmes is just trying to do that. Um why you know in case you didn't know Miss Holmes is 99 years old. She will be 100 years old in December. >> She's trying to enjoy her property. She's spry. She's active. She wants to
get there. I'm sorry I used your age. I'm sorry I put that out there. So >> um but she just wants to be able to um use that property without falling down an embankment. That's that's it. So, this is a troubling trend that we constantly see. I never understood it.
Um, these complaints are petty at best. And I um um I don't think that a set of stairs which is going to allow people to come and go quickly without congregating on a 8ft square foot bench uh is is in any way relevant to this matter. She
meets all the criteria. I think a variance should be issued. >> Thank you very much, Attorney. Does the board have any further questions from the petitioner for the petition before we close the hearing to the public and begin deliberation?
Hearing none. Okay. So, we're going to close the hearing to public to the public comment and we are going to open it for board discussion and deliberation. Um, >> Mr. Neats, what are your thoughts?
I think it's a tough one and and and I'm I'm I'm struggling with it. Um that's that's very close to to an abut. It's a lot closer to the abutters than it is to the to the property owner. And it's a uh you know after after being in
one location for a long time I I think anybody would be concerned about having a structure built so close to my property line that was really so close to my outside living space. So I I I I feel for the um for the abutters.
uh petty or not, I think it's it's a legitimate uh concern on the part of the of the the abuters to see such a dramatic change. Um, and I I
you know, I I I I I I wonder how much use it's actually going to get in the foreseeable future, but I too would be concerned about, you know, the change of ownership at some point in the future. Uh, and a drastic increase in activity in my backyard so close to my patio and
the bathroom window um and the outside shower. So, I I think the the concerns are legitimate and I'm I'm struggling with it. >> Okay. Thank you very much. Mr. Martin, your thoughts? >> Well, I would agree with Mr. Neats. Uh
this would be a lot easier if the neighbors weren't uh weren't against it. I uh I can't imagine this being too obtrusive or too uh too much of a pain. I I guess I do
have one question for uh the the on parsonage point. Uh do you have a trail down to the to the pawn, >> sir? >> Um the property >> he's not on parsonage point. He's on
>> the um >> No, that's He's on Parson point. Yeah. >> Yeah. The the property that I have uh goes all the way to the pond. >> Yeah. >> From the road. >> And do you have a trail down to the pond? Uh there there is a trail down to
the pond from it. There's no slope or there's um it was the land was bulldozed all the way to the water by the by the developer I guess. >> Okay. >> And so um right straight from Parsonage Point,
it goes down to the pond. >> Yeah. >> Uh thank you. Uh I don't know. I've got some issues. It is a structure. It is very close to both lot lines. Um
on the other hand, I can certainly see uh petitioners desire to be able to get to the bond at her age. I think one um one possibility of
uh adding to anything if we do make such a decision in favor would be that it would be for this property owner only and any future property owner would would need to come back to us. Um >> can't do that. >> Can't do that.
>> Statute doesn't allow that. >> Variance >> not for variance land. Oh, that's right. I'm sorry. >> Thank you. I I should have known that. Uh, okay. So much for that. I don't know. I mean, I I guess I'm kind of like
Mr. Nits here and I have uh mixed emotions. I uh I can understand uh the butter's issues, but uh I don't really feel this is going to be that terrible to look at. I can can't imagine it being
busy. All right, >> that's all. >> Um, >> John, your thoughts? >> I uh I understand the proximity to both lot lines, but other than that, I don't have any problem with it. This is her
access to the pond. Um, and this is the way the lot is. It is a pork chop lot, and this is her only access down. I mean, it to me it appears as though it's a safety issue more than anything. So, she can get down. I don't understand why there'd be more traffic with the stairs
than currently set up right now. Just a just a path. I mean, um, so I I don't really have an issue with it at all. Um, I think, uh, you know, for Mrs. Holmes to be able to access the pond, uh, you know, at her age, um, I think it's a
necessity. So, I support it. >> Thank you. >> Okay, Barbara, your thoughts? >> Um, I think when you look at these photos, you really get a sense of how close it is um to the Abutter's patio
and you see where the orange stakes are. Um, and I think, you know, I'd like to I'd like to think that, you know, this path would help um Miss Holmes get down to the pond easier,
but I think the concern is it's then going to be a permanent structure and when she sells the house, how much activity might those stays get? So, I'm not sure I can support it.
Okay. Okay. Um well, you know, I I I hear the arguments on both sides here. I I I hear John's argument that you're right. It's it's just a staircase and it's a a boardwalk
that leads down to the pond. Um it is a a different lot. All those above the pond seem to have the access to it. Um this lady has to go down a path. I
understand the need for this from her perspective. I do understand the concerns of the abutters. I I think it is a tough call. Um but we need to take a vote on this. Okay.
Um it requires four out of five votes. So what I want to do is I want to pull the board. If we're going to vote on this, are you in favor or are you opposed?
I'm going to give everybody just a couple of seconds to think about this because I don't want to I don't want to take a vote necessarily um before we know where the board's
going on this. I don't know that uh so since we started with you Mr. needs. I'm going to put you on the hot seat first. I'm going to >> Somehow I knew that. I'm not sure I just cuz I don't come here very often. I
think you're picking on me, but >> um >> that red sweater is an easy target. >> I guess so. I guess so. I've been I've been told that before. Um I think the detriment to those abutters of
particularly Mr. Walsh's property is greater than the long-term gain. And I I I don't think I could I cannot vote for it. >> Okay.
Mr. Martin. >> Yeah, I'd have to agree. You know, just the fact that it's a structure and it's one, you know, one foot or so from the both lot lines to both of Butters who are not in favor of it. Uh I would
probably have to have to uh say no to this as well. and uh like to make it easier for her to get to the pond, but it may just have to remain a trail for for her and any future argument.
>> Okay, John, you voiced your support for it. Is yours support still the same? >> Yes. >> Okay, Barbara, >> how would you how would you vote on this? >> I'd vote no.
Okay. >> Uh, attorney Tardiff, um, you've heard the feeling of the board. It appears that there are insufficient votes for this, uh, variance to be granted tonight. Do you wish the the board to
proceed with a vote or would you like the opportunity to withdraw this without prejudice, which would give you the opportunity to maybe look at it a little differently? Well, I I I I'd like to have a minute to talk to my client about it. I I would say that the reasons
provided already for denial of this are not the criteria in your bylaw. Um, and if if it's if we're going to go to a vote, I'm not saying we are, but if we are, I would love a decision that's
going to outline with particularity the reasons for the denial because I I've been given variances by this board in the past on a heck of a lot less than this. and um for a temporary structure that's not
a house, not a shed, um not a a cell tower, but a set of stairs to get someone to and from the property when everyone else can get to theirs when you get to get get to the pond is preposterous. Um but if you can give me
a few minutes, I can talk to my client about this. >> Please take your time. >> Would you would you prefer that we do you need a few minutes? Yes, please. >> Why don't we do this? What we're going
to do is if you want to. We're going to take a fiveminut intermission. I'm not going to open up the next hearing. Okay? I want you to leave your things there. Let's have a fiveminut intermission. Let's let uh attorney Tardiff and his client uh
perhaps move into the other room. so they can speak privately and then we'll come back and we'll reconvene. Okay. >> The board stands in recess for five minutes. still heat. This is
close. Easy. >> Yeah, exactly. The board will now reconvene. Attorney Tardiff. Um, if I may ask, how would your client like to proceed? >> Sure. Um, so we would we're going to request the withdrawal without
prejudiced. Um just a caveat that our amazement has now turned to anger and um I don't understand this decision in any way, shape or form. Um but that's what we'd
like to do. >> Okay. Is anyone on the board prepared to make a motion to allow the petitioner to withdraw her request for relief without prejudice? >> I'll make that motion. Mr. Here
>> we have a motion made by Mr. Meets. >> Second. >> Second by Mr. Martin. >> Okay, we're going to do a roll call vote. Barbara, >> hi. >> Barbara, >> I
>> John. >> Hi, >> Dick. Needs >> hi. >> Dick Martin. >> Hi. >> And I'm Ben as well. That passes. Five in favor. None opposed. Very sorry we couldn't grant you your relief, ma'am.
Please have a nice evening. That's a tough one. Second here. The next petition on our our agenda is petition 5199. Michelle Jean Baptiste doing business as Cape Bloom floral design. Property lo is
located at 228 Route 28 West Jarmath. It's in an R. It's in a B2 zoning district. And the applicant seeks to modify do decision 5173
dated May 5th, 2025 and/or a variance from section 202.5 footnote 2 for an H1, H2, and H11 use in a BD2 zoning district to conduct the temporary and seasonal
sale of plants and holiday crafts outside a building. The applicant requests a waiver from the requirement for a certified site plot plan less than 2 years old. >> Good evening. >> Hello. Good evening.
>> Would you identify yourself for the record, please? >> Michelle Jean Baptiste. >> Okay. Uh why don't you tell us about your petition? >> Sure. So, thank you for your time tonight. It's nice to see everyone again. Um, and it was nice to see some of you this >> up a little bit.
>> Sure. Um, it was it was nice to see everyone tonight. It was also nice to see everyone this summer um on our lot. Everyone that purchased flowers from us and plants this summer. We had a great time with the Yarmouth residents in the community. Um, so what I'm looking to do
today is, um, modify the variance that was approved for us over the summer so we're able to continue to sell holiday greenery in November and December um, on that same lot with the same exact plan
that we presented 6 months ago. Um the addition that also we're looking for is we are hoping to partner up with local artists um from the town of Yarmouth and the surrounding towns where they can
come in and they can you know set up their tables next to ours and sell holiday items, crafts, ornaments, things like that. >> Okay. Okay. And uh so
what would be the dates and just for purposes of of clarification I don't think we can modify >> no >> the existing variance we have to grant you a new variance. >> Okay. So but that's okay because you've
asked for that. So in the alternative so um what would be the dates that um you would be looking to do this? >> So we are looking to do this on the weekends starting November 8th um all
the way through December 28th. So every Saturday and Sunday um for the two for the two months leading up to the holiday. and and you said that there would be additional people on the lot besides
yourself. >> Yes. So, we are looking to partner up with local artists that make handmade wreath, handmade ornaments, um just small items that um our customers could
also purchase as gifts for the holidays. So, they will be set up right with us on that same lot um for that same exact time. >> Okay. And they would be selling directly
to the public. They wouldn't be going through you. >> Correct. They will be selling their own items directly. They'll handle all their sales. We'll handle all our sales. >> Okay. Okay. Um,
and it would be roughly the same hours of operation, uh, 9:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. 7 days a week. >> So, we are looking to do this on the weekends only. So, it would be the same
exact hours from 9 to 6 on Saturday and Sundays. Do you know how many different local artists that you would be having on the site? >> Sure. So, ideally, I would like to have anywhere between 15 to 20 at most.
>> Have you identified those people? >> We have connected with some, but I was waiting to meet with all of you before, you know, I make any commitments or um move forward with any of them. So, we've made just personal connections with
different local vendors um on the Cape. >> Well, I think one issue that I'm I I think one issue that you're having here is whereas you're not running this all through you,
this is not an allowed use here. or if it's allowed by way of variance, they would have to come in and file their own applications to operate on this site. So, this isn't your business. This is you and then you're inviting a number of
different people to sell directly to the public. So, it's more like a flea market. Not to say it's a flea market, but it's looking and operating as a flea market. I know what you're doing. you're trying to sell
the holiday decorations and flowers and those things and and they there is a synergy obviously um with all of this together cuz that's the way people like to purchase it and it's kind of a one-stop shop. But when you have a number of different vendors,
they would need to fill out their own applications for um a variance and appear before us. Um, I'll tell you what I'm going to do right now though. I'm going to go to the board
and uh have them see what questions they may have. Um, Mr. Martin, do you have any questions for the petitioner? >> No. Other than I guess I'd have the same concerns you have. I don't have any
questions as to what's uh proposed. >> Okay, Mr. or needs. >> I have several. Um it says in the um petition um holiday crafts outside a building. What What does that mean?
>> So the lot doesn't have an existing building on it. >> I know. >> Um that's why we um see a variance 6 months ago and we sold plants and flowers on that lot without an existing building. >> Without a bu with a building. So there
is no >> Why is it in here that says it it says seasonal sale of plants and holiday crafts outside a building? >> That's what the bylaw is. >> Yes, correct. Thank you, Mr. Manonyi. That's how it's written in the bylaw, Mr. Nates. >> Oh, that's the way the bylaw is, >> correct?
>> Okay. Outside of a building, but you don't have a building. You're not going to have a building. Do you have electricity? >> No. >> How are you going to light it after 4:00 in December? >> We are going to rent gen a generator. And you were going to have sanitary
facilities as well. >> We did in the summer and we will again we will have border potties on the lot. >> Um I got I have a real problem with this, Mr. Chair. You know, this was a temporary variance that was given for
2024. It extended into 2025 and now they're looking to extend it again. Um, I I I I can't help but think of the appearance on Route 28 of another no structure business when there are a lot of
businesses that pay a lot of taxes to be in existence that this would be in direct competition with. Not to mention the fact that many of those businesses have endured in incredible hardship over the last
several months due to the construction on Route 28. And now they'd be entering a competitor during the season that's usually pretty good for some of these businesses. So I I I'm going to have trouble with the hardship on this one because I think the hardship is not on
the petitioner but on the other businesses that are selling like things in the town. Okay, thank you. >> Um, John, do you have any questions or >> just a couple? >> Yeah, a couple, please. Um, so are you
going to fence it in like you did last night? >> Yes, absolutely. >> So, everybody would be inside the fenced area. >> Correct. >> And the parking would be outside. >> Correct. >> And when you say you're selling greenery, what what exactly are you does that mean? Is that like poinsettas or
what what exactly are you selling? So, holiday greenery, holiday arrangements that we will create and some that we will purchase um from our greenhouse that we work with. >> Flower arrangements. >> Flower arrangements. Most of it would be holiday greenery.
>> Okay. >> Well, you can't sell poinsettias in 20° weather either. >> Correct. So, we will not be selling >> without heat. >> Okay. That's all I have. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Barbara, do you have any questions? >> Yeah, I I'm just really concerned. I
know how busy these, you know, holiday lots get when they're selling Christmas trees and wreaths and uh you know, the number of people that are attracted to these sites. So, I've just got some real concern about the
parking and the traffic and the in and out and the whole thing. So, um, yeah, I think I'm just very concerned with how busy this could be. >> Okay. All right. >> Are you selling trees?
>> We will be selling trees. Yes. >> So, you're selling Christmas trees as well. Okay. Well, as I said before, the only thing that we could grant you if the board were inclined to grant you any relief
tonight is what you're going to do. We couldn't grant any relief for any other third parties to come onto the property and sell whatever they they're going to sell. Um, if everything went through you and it was your business, that perhaps
would be something we could consider. Um I know you did come before us last year or excuse me this was just recently this year in April. Um you were selling your flowers. Um I
believe you had told us that you had had a problem with your previous site or something was damaged to it. Um and you were looking for this site to continue. Um, see, one of the concerns that I have,
um, is there's no building on this site, and there requires a building under the bylaw. Aside from that, the site really, if there's going to be anything that's going on there, I think it needs to be
cleaned up. I think if anybody is going to come on to this site and look to do anything in the future, there's going to have to be an understanding that the the site in and of itself has got to be cleaned up. >> Buffer strips.
>> Yeah. You know, it really it's it's just not suitable. Um, you know, I think we all support what you want to do, but um, we have a
charge under the bylaw as well is to follow the direction that it gives us. And I don't know that you really meet the criteria of a variance. Uh, you know, we gave you that temporary variance last year.
Now, if you were to come before us again with something and you wanted to make this a more permanent site, I think we would at least, speaking for myself, I would require that there be a building on this property and that the site in
and of itself be cleaned up. And cleaned up, I mean really cleaned up. and probably some type of buffers, green buffers, and uh a driveway that's got some pavement on it and delineated parking spaces so it looks like a
business. So, um while I appreciate what you want to do, I I I don't really think I can support this either. Um, so I am hearing some concern from the board.
If we were to take a vote tonight and it didn't go your way, you'd be precluded for 2 years from coming back. So, I guess my question to you is, do you want us to proceed tonight with a
vote, which would preserve your rights to appeal if you wanted to appeal our decision? Or would you wish to consider requesting a withdrawal of your petition without prejudice that would allow you to come
back with refiling it if you had a different plan that you wanted to present to the board? >> Okay. Would this be in regards to what I'm asking for today? Or um like if I
was to come back and seek a variance to do exactly what we did this past summer over again next year, would this all be like included of the two years that you're speaking of or is it just what I'm seeking today?
>> No, this is we we can't grant you any more relief than what you've asked for right now. >> Okay. So, what you're asking for right now is what you've told us is weekends through December 28th. We can't grant you anything for next year, nor do I
think we would. >> Okay. So I I think what at least from my perspective that two things first of all we are very happy that you want to do business in the town of
Yarmath and I drove by and although I didn't come in to buy any plants from you over the summer I did recommend people go in there. It looked very nice and and I we think you did a good job. >> Thank you. >> And it's not with you, it's the site.
So, please don't misunderstand us. It requires things and one of them is a building and it needs particular site upgrades that are required under the bylaw. So, while we would encourage you to perhaps
think about coming back next year, we would also encourage you to look at the bylaw, see what requirements are required under the bylaw. Um, and knowing that we would want to
have those somewhat abided by, I don't know if there could be any variation from that. Uh, but as far as I'm concerned, that that lot really needs to be cleaned up if it's going to be used at all on a temporary basis as
we gave to you. >> Okay, understood. Does anyone else have anything they'd like to add to what I said? >> No, I think you said it very well, Mr. Chairman, and I I I I think uh I I guess we need a decision from from the
petitioner as to whether or not she wants to withdraw without pre prejudice or or have us take a vote. I do I do want to just add that um what what what I am trying to do is create a
nice experience for the community. Um we did get amazing feedback from the community this past summer. They enjoyed coming in and not having to drive, you know, an extra 20 or 30 minutes in traffic to, you know, whether to purchase their plants or be outside and
see flowers. Um but I do understand what you shared and thank you for explaining thoroughly. Um I would like to withdraw today if possible. >> Okay. So we have a request from the petitioner to withdraw her petition
without prejudice. Do we have someone prepared to make a motion? >> I'll make that motion, Mr. Chair. >> We have a second. >> Second. >> We have a motion made by Mr. Neat, seconded by Mr. Man Tony, is there any
further discussion on the motion? Hearing none, we're going to take a roll call vote. All in favor of the motion, please say I. Barbara, >> I. >> John, >> I. >> Dick Neats, >> I. >> Dick Martin, >> I.
>> And I'm an I as well. That's five in favor, none against. Um, we're sorry that we couldn't grant you your relief tonight. Um, please just understand we are in support of your business, but we need to take the bylaw into consideration. I hope you'll take our
comments uh into consideration if you can consider coming back again. >> Well, thank you so much for your time. Have a nice evening. >> You too. Thank you very much. >> Um, Dolores, do we have any other business tonight? >> Uh, no sir, Mr. Chairman.
>> We don't. And our next hearing date is >> November 13th. >> November 13th. >> And how many do we have on for that night? >> Uh we have four, sir. >> We have four. Okay. Okay. Um
who uh who's available on the uh is everybody here available for the 13th? >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Well, I I I think we have a continuence on um 897 Route 28. So I think Um, everyone. Oh, >> it will be everyone. I think Mr.
Panabiano. >> Okay. That Oh, they're coming back before us as well. >> Uh, yes. >> Okay. I'm going to touch base with you in the next couple days regarding that one just to see if anything we've received from them. Okay. Uh, why don't
we uh anybody want to entertain a motion to adjurnn? >> So moved. >> Second. >> Okay. All those in favor? >> I. Any opposed? Didn't think I'd hear any.