recording in progress. Thank you and good evening. Today is February 3rd, 2026. Welcome to the Yarmas Select Board meeting. Um, we are going to I'm going to read a motion and ask for um it to be moved and seconded
and we will take a vote to go into executive session. And uh at the end of executive session, we will return to public session approximately at 6 p.m. So the Yarmouth Select Board will consider consider entering into
executive session pursuant to Mass General Law Chapter 30A section 21A2 to conduct contract negotiations with non-UN personnel. town administrator if the chair declares that an open meeting may have a detrimental effect on the negotiation position of the public body
which we do. So we will um take a motion to uh negotiate an executive session. >> So move. >> I'll second that. >> Okay. All those in favor? Roll call. >> Mark Forest votes I. >> Liz >> I >> I We are now in executive session and we
will return in public session upon its conclusion. Energy optimizer. >> Okay. I was at the school committee meeting last night and and they were referencing that talking about the budget but referencing that as something that they were going for >> recording in progress.
>> I wondered if that was in lie of anybody >> or whether that was something that she had decided. >> Just for the record, our town administrator evaluations May 5th May, >> but we have to do it before then. >> Yeah, we got to get all the paperwork.
That's why March, April, because we have to publicly go with it like this. >> Okay. >> So, we only have three copies of this. >> Yeah. >> Yep. >> You can have this one. >> I've already inhaled it.
>> Okay. Wonderful. >> I think we are ready to roll. Thank you. And good evening everybody. We are back in public session. And I would like to begin with the pledge of allegiance. To the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it
stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Thank you. Okay, we are going to start with our 6 PM agenda item, which is announcements. Liz, do you have any announcements?
>> Um, nope. Um, I do not. Hey, and uh Capeelike Compact has in the packet this time an announcement about um incentives that you'll want to see, but I'll um maybe throw it in as an announcement um
at the next meeting just as a reminder. That's three weeks from tonight. >> Well, there's um energy efficiency update for 2026. It's in our packet for umformational items. >> I asked to put it in. >> Okay, great. I always think tell them
two ways. Dorcas. >> No mark. >> Nothing. >> No. >> Bob, >> no announcements. >> Okay. All right. Moving on to our 605 item. That was probably the easiest section all night.
We have public comment. Is there anybody here? I see two people on um I see two people on um >> Zoom that would like to address the board. >> Chris. Yes. Good evening.
>> Good evening. >> Uh, thank you. Uh, in addition to the reasons mentioned during my January 13th public comments, I respectfully ask this board to not reschedule or reconsider the proposed immigration resolution based on credible evidence that indicates the people of Yarmouth
overwhelmingly oppose it. First, more people spoke in opposition to the proposed resolution during the December 2nd public comment. 15 out of 26 speakers opposed it. The 15 law-abiding opponents represented a broad spectrum of voting age groups from younger to
older, including workers, parents of young children, Yarmouth business owners, and retirees. Many indicated that they had never spoken publicly about political issues before, but felt compelled in order to stop this resolution. The law the opponents also
spoke as individuals and did not appear to belong to an organized group. They were respectful to the board and prepared. They commonly spoke for peace, order, and compliance with the law. They welcome and are friendly towards immigrants, but simply ask them to follow the law and for the government to
apply the law equally, even when criminal suspects happen to be in violation of federal immigration laws. Thus, the law-abiding opponent's turnout during the December 2nd meeting reflects a broad and motivated support base from numerous voting age groups in Yarmmen.
Whereas the resolution activists who spoke on December 2nd appear to be from only one single older voting age group, a large majority of them self-identified on the record as retired or they provided their ages or said that their spouse who also spoke at the meeting was retired. This underwhelming turnout from
only a portion of one voting age group reflects an extremely narrow and weak resolution support base in Yarma. Second, local radio talk shows reflect strong opposition to the resolution. For example, several members of this board have appeared on one locally popular
WXTK morning show in order to reach voters. During the last several months, listeners from Yarmouth have overwhelmingly opposed this resolution based on numerous phone calls and emails as well as residents from other Cape Towns. Furthermore, while this activist group demands another meeting and
proclaims its resolution is the biggest issue in the land right now, Yarmouth and Cape radio listeners report they are struggling to pay their bankrupting monthly heating and electric bills and fear losing everything without help. Anyone living in Yarmouth during the last few weeks of frigid singledigit
temperatures with snow and ice who doesn't know that town neighbors are suffering with skyrocketing energy prices with no end in sight is out of touch with reality or just callously doesn't care. Plus, this board does not have much time to persuade financially strapped voters to approve a potential
2027 budget override by the spring town meeting. To paraphrase board member Forest during the January 6th select board meeting, Yarmouth is facing a financial perfect storm that will likely require a budget override approved by the voters at the next town meeting. Given the severity of this financial
shortfall, the controversy caused by this board reconsidering this distracting, unnecessary, and time-consuming resolution before the Springtown meeting will endanger the chance of passing the budget override. No budget override means cuts in essential services, education, and plans
for a new library. Finally, social media indicates strong and large opposition to this resolution where public comment videos have gone viral about this activist group. The armistice population is around 25,000 people on X the case. >> Can you wrap it wrap it up, please?
>> Madam Chair, just >> could we have a policy in the future to recognize Yarmouth residents first? >> That's up for discussion. I'd appreciate that. >> I don't even know if he >> he's not a resident. >> Okay, >> Chris, can you wrap it up?
>> I'm a homeowner and a taxpayer, but in South Yarmouth, but thank you. So, in conclusion, when considered together, this evidence clearly shows that Yarmouth residents overwhelmingly oppose the resolution, and their priority issue is figuring out how to pay unaffordable
energy bills without going broke. The evidence further shows the law-abiding opponents who ask for peace, order, and compliance with the law in reality truly represent Yarma's historic reputation. Respect of all people. >> You've gone way over your >> Therefore, >> I respect Okay. Thank you. I
respectfully ask that you don't reschedule, but thank you so much for the opportunity to speak. >> Thank you, Chris. >> Thank you. >> Uh, next up on Zoom, I don't know who that is. It's a Zoom user. If you can please identify yourself. >> Can you hear me? Madam, Madam Chair, Joe
Glenn Yarmat. >> Okay. >> I I guess I'm going I'm going to try to change my profile, but I guess I'm going to be alter ego Zoom user or uh >> Zoom uh >> or Dreamw Weaver, I'll go by. >> Um I appreciate the previous comments
and uh you you as a board are going to be talking about the school budget. Um and that is where the rubber meets the road. Um, I first want to thank uh the town clerk's office. I was in there the
other day. Um, it just tremendously helpful. Um, I was getting information about veterans, uh, disabled veterans, individuals. Uh, but it also educated me on helping other people, um, with beach stickers and, uh, things for our seniors
and our veterans and, uh, our disabled. So, I want to thank uh Mary uh Susan Rean and uh Samantha and actually all the staff because you know when I'm in there it takes a whole it takes a village of town clerk's office to to help me but they were very helpful. So,
thank you. Um I and I also appreciate the uh the meetings that the uh two town chairs on the school budget um in the town finance and administration um uh getting together. But don't forget um I
love that you guys are getting that information and they're getting that information which helps uh you consolidate solutions. But remember that has to get out to the public. Um, I've asked for a lot of information. Um, Dr. Smith has given me uh information and
it's not that Joe Glenn needs the information. Um, but the public needs because if we're going to do an override, we're we're going from uh uh a a year and a half ago, two years ago, um Yarmouth was under the 2 and a half% and
it was said at the school committee last night that it's a recommendation. The 2 and 12% is a recommendation. No, it's a law and that's why we have to pass overrides. Um, Prop 2 and a half has been for many years. I think it was the
70s or 80s, but um, so, you know, well over 25 years. Um, but we're going to go from, you know, uh, being over, uh, being under the two and a half at at 1.3
assessment a year and a half ago, two years ago. um to uh 10% now. Um that's not going to fly. And if the public doesn't know um we're going to, you know, they're not going to approve it. There are all these other things that
are in town and you know, these people are having affordability issues as was said earlier. So, you know, uh a million-doll overrides, but we also got we also got to address the um the regional agreement. The regional
agreement isn't just something that we do when we're trying to approve a school. It's supposed to be periodic all the all the time based on the census. It's talking about the population and the uh representation. Yarmouth is
paying 70% of the school budget and and we're not being represented by uh that. You know, there used to be a 10 member board and I don't know who remembers it. Mark probably remembers it. Tracy may
remember it. Um, you know, I don't know who does remember it, but I don't. But, uh, I've been here 20 years. But, um, the So, that would mean that seven members of the board of the school committee would be from Yarm. Okay. Now,
we have four members. Okay. And I don't know how any no matter what math you do, you know, there's four members to three on a seven members board is not representational. It's and it's basically the assessment is taxation
without representation that we all know came from James Otis Jr. uh who was our first Barstable representative. Um, and that goes to the other thing. We we're going to talk about state funding, okay?
We haven't been represented up at the state house and uh that is big. It's big on the uh how they calculate it, but we haven't had anybody speaking up for us and that's huge. But finally, the END uh
you know, the misnomer about the END. I've been trying to explain it for a long time, but let's say we have a million dollar override, okay, and it goes to Yarm, okay, and we give that money that is because of the projection,
we say, "All right, we need a million dollars." Well, if we don't, >> Joe, you have to wrap it up, please. >> Okay. Yeah. So, basically, we have to uh understand the projections um of the END, but thank you very much. have a great meeting and I look forward to
hearing everything about uh the school budget. Thank you so much. Have a great night. >> Thanks, Joe. >> Uh next up, we have a few more hands up on the I'm just going to get through the Zoom first if that's okay. Um Zoom user I think was just Joe.
Uh Cheryl, >> everyone can hear me? >> Yep. >> Okay. Um so, uh like Chris, um I'm here to speak about the resolution. And I understand that uh this board might be discussing what to do with it and maybe
taking a possible vote on it. So I'm here tonight to urge you to stop giving this nonsense any further oxygen and please let's just put it to bed permanently. It's abundantly clear from listening to the people who spoke in favor of the resolution that legal and
illegal immigration are being deliberately conflated. As many of us emphasized on December 2nd, the duty of our local government is to protect citizens and lawful residents, not to blur the line between legal and illegal presence in this country.
We saw a lack of distinction on full display during public comment on our December 2nd meeting. Furthermore, on January 13th, Mr. Wolf, one of the people who spoke on December 2nd, returned to the podium and amidst some threats and accusations, he stated,
quote, "It's absolutely essential that our town come together on this. We're friendly toward immigrants, and frankly, the three of you, if you can't, will consider you not friendly toward them." This man made no distinction between
legal and illegal immigrants amidst his threats. We've also seen what is unfolding in Minnesota. If this board wants that kind of circus on Cape Cod, then bending to a group of activists who make demands and threats is exactly how we're going to get that.
On January 11th, Mr. Burgerson, who was in attendance at our December 2nd meeting, although he was not allowed to speak since he's a Dennis resident, he appeared on the Pat Desmaris radio show and described the Renee Good incident in Minneapolis.
He quotes he he stated quote she's 37. She's white. She has three kids. Was dropping off one of her children at school. Came back got involved apparently with some kind of ICE situation and she was shot and killed by an ICE agent.
One key fact that he admitted he omitted was that she parked her vehicle sideways in the road to interfere with law enforcement. During that same radio segment, Mr. Desmearis, the host, went on to claim in his opinion, quote, "Now these people
don't like immigrants. They have a real problem with them. They have a problem with gay people, too. By the way, seriously, where on earth is this kind of rhetoric coming from?" Let me also remind this board that Mr.
Berseron was one of the people that was involved in the 13-our standoff in Dennis trying to interfere with federal agents who were trying to apprehend an illegal alien felon. I also want to note for this board for the record that one of the people who spoke on December 2nd
who was the pastor uh Reverend or Pastor um Gregory Davis, he he was arrested previously for disorderly conduct at a protest in New Hampshire and plead guilty to those charges. Are these really the people that this board wants to embolden? The town of
Dennis was approached with the same resolution and wisely declined to take it up. The town of Plymouth also recently endured a six-hour meeting pushing similar similar sanctuary policies and ultimately rejected them in favor of supporting existing law enforcement practices. That should tell
you something. To be absolutely clear, I fully support immigrants who come here legally. I oppose illegal immigration. Aside from criminal offenders, I don't harbor personal animosity toward those who are here illegally. I fully agree
that many of these individuals are seeking a better life, but wanting a better life does not entitle anyone to jump the line, skip the process, and stay. Allowing that is a slap in the face to every legal immigrant who followed the rules. I actually do have compassion for many who are fearing
deportation because I believe that they were lured here for political gain. If supporters truly want to help, then they should focus their volunteer efforts on helping people return home and pursue legal entry the right way and then vote better next time so we don't see this kind of human trafficking and suffering
again. Thank you. >> Thank you, Cheryl. Uh Tom, >> hi. Good evening. Can you hear me? >> I can hear you. Yes. >> Okay. Uh Tom Sullivan, West Yamoth. I'm a property owner, taxpayer, and
registered voter. I hope that meets the requirements to speak. Um, I'm also here to speak tonight against this so-called resolution. Uh, it's nothing but leftwing politics,
something we don't have control over dealing with immigration. The state has no control over it. Sure enough, the town's not going to have the town needs, the board of selectmen have more important issues. For instance, like I'm hearing tonight for the first
time about a possible override with the town. Well, I hope the town is able to get its act together before the May town meeting. Different than the school committee, the town budget can be cut from the floor.
The uh so I would suggest that this not even be brought up for voting. All right. Also, uh there was threats made. Yes. Previous meeting. I grid knows there's also a provision and this is not a threat. I'm just making you aware of
it for the whole board in our chart. There's a provision for recall and that provision is under chapter 3 44 of the acts of 1989. I've read it and
there is a provision for recalling members of an elected body. So, it's in our charter. Uh, as I said, I think the board should continue going on. You got work on uh town meeting coming up in May and you got some very important issues
facing you. So, with that, I will say that no on any more of this resolution. Doc, put it to bed. Thank you. >> Thank you, Tom. Um, >> Vita, >> hello. Can you hear me? >> Yes, Vita.
uh you know uh I say amen uh to what most of the uh uh uh previous speakers were uh talking about and I think for for Mr. uh Wolf, isn't he the same one who
touted the uh the uh uh buying of of the solar panels to to put on their own on the people's roofs and uh about two days after he was in front of you people the doing his presentation the the company
went belly up and he was highly involved in that company I guess and but in the meantime he also had gotten one of the current boards members to uh uh pick it up, you know, and and and she got involved with it. And it's very
interesting. This is a woman who until unless it changed recently did not have the solar panels on her own roof. So you these are the kind of people who are now trying to turn this little town as as uh
Minneapolis east. Exactly what Miss Cheryl, I think, mentioned. uh that that's exactly what will happen. We'll have absolute chaos if we don't stand up for what the the current situation is and and how the police are dealing with
it. And and uh I I just make sure that uh you know you don't go up go along with Mr. Wolf there and keep keep uh keep the things as they are. Please please do not bring this thing up again. There's no reason for it to be done.
Thank you. Thank you, Vita. Tom. >> Yes, Madam Chair. Good evening and and thank you all for doing what you're doing here tonight. Uh, I just wanted to um remind everybody just a few days ago, we had a a great snowstorm and those
people at the DPW and the parks and the and the natural resources, you know, they go out there and they did a fabulous job being behind that. Tom, you didn't identify yourself from the beautiful historic um place of Bass River. If you could do that tonight, that'd be great.
>> Yes. Yes. Um Okay. Well, thank you, Madam Chair. Tom Dano from the very historic village of Bass River. Um which is uh quite a snowy and wonderful uh environment as you can see right now with all the beautiful white. We really don't see much trash, which is very
happy. So anyways, I just wanted to make sure that those people behind the blade uh were thanked uh by the community. There's 250 miles worth of roadway and only uh less than two dozen men and a few contractors were able to push all
that snow and everybody knows there was a bear. So uh we want to thank them. And on another note, uh we're very sorry that there's not a winter carnival this year. Uh maybe we can bring it back next year. Uh over the course three years we put almost a thousand kids on ice on our
synthetic rink and uh we we'll be missing that this year. However, there is a u a big pile of snow in that parking lot and it's a big bank and now we don't want you to drive into banking but I made a big slice so you can drive right through the snow bank and it's a
one ina-lifetime experience. So thank you and all have a great evening. >> Thank you Tom. And the last one on uh Zoom is MP Hi, can you hear me? >> I can hear you. Can you please identify yourself? >> Great. Yes. Margaret uh South Yarmouth
homeowner taxpayer. I just wanted to get back to the resolution because other people have mentioned it. >> Margaret just Yes. >> What's your last name? Margaret >> Posa. >> Posa. >> Thank you. And I just want to get back to the resolution and having read the
resolution and I understand it was submitted to legal counsel for review too and I'm just should you put it forward for a vote I just want to suggest a few simple tweaks to it and the language where it's about residents
and visitors add the word legal and then where it says about complying with all acceptable provisions of the Massachusetts Constitution and federal law bad immigration law simply because that that removes any um situation where
the select board or the police department are put in the untenable deci um situation of having to defend um be in a position of choosing whether to follow the supremacy law or the will
of this resolution. And our police department works hard. They do too much stuff already and pitting them against um uh ICE I think is unfair and it's a wrong thing to do and I join the others
in just table this resolution. Do not put it for a vote and if you do please add the word legal. >> Pardon? >> A Vita you need to mute yourself. Thank you Margaret. Are you finished?
>> Thank you. Yes I am. Thank you so much. Byebye, >> Margaret. Okay. Yes, please. Excuse me. Just needed a moment to get situated. Good evening, Select Board Chair Tracy
Post and members of the Armouth Select Board. My name is Susan Gregory Davis. I'm a registered voter in Yarmouth's second precinct. I stand before you with respect both for the work of the Yarmouth Select Board and for your
service to our town. I respectfully and humbly wish to speak to you now on behalf of a local group of Yarmouth residents to which I belong called Yarmouth for everyone. It is this group of caring and thoughtful individuals who
brought before the select board this past December a proposed resolution for your consideration. The simple intent of this resolution is to give our town by vote of the select board the opportunity to express a warm,
welcoming and impactful message to the residents of our town. the message that Yarmouth values all who live in this community from those feeling secure to those feeling most vulnerable. Moreover, this resolution is a
reaffirmation of the commitments and values of our town. Values we all cherish such as freedom, justice, and equality, and commitments we depend upon, such as support for the civil liberties, safety, and human
rights of ourselves, our families, and all our neighbors. This resolution offers Yarmouth the opportunity to no longer be one of only four towns on Cape Cod that has not yet passed a version of this resolution.
And as well the opportunity to join our neighbors in Barnstable whose town council unanimously passed this exact resolution six months ago and also to join our neighbors in Dennis as well who are hoping to follow suit. The intent of this resolution comes
directly out of the hearts of friendly and loving folks in our small town. We are a grassroots group with no affiliation whatsoever with any partisan political organization.
We are your neighbors simply seeking to do a good and positive deed for the rest of our neighbors desiring to offer a measure of comfort and reassurance. wishing to say with genuine kindness and respect, "Our town cares about you and
your family, and we are thankful for you and the ways you contribute to our town and our community." The logo of our group, Yarmouth for Everyone, says it all. A simple map of the Cape that shows where Yarmouth is
with a big red heart. In proposing this resolution to the Yarmouth Select Board, never once did we ever imagine or anticipate that this goodfaith effort would sur surface controversy and generate ill will among
some of our neighbors. Suffice it to say, this was the furthest thing from our intent. Through this process, we are grateful for the time that our five select board members are dedicating to respectfully considering this resolution brought before you by your constituents. We are
also very grateful for the time and expertise of our town's legal council who determined in early January that the proposed resolution poses no legal nor financial risk to the town of Yarmouth. We are curious why the select board as a
whole has not yet proceeded with the reasonable and respectful commitment to put the resolution back on the board agenda given the clear decision rendered by legal counsel. We hope that the select board as a whole will model civil leadership with regard to this
humanitarian resolution and on behalf of all our neighbors in Yarmouth. In light of our thorough and thoughtful assessment of all that has transpired both on the board level and within our community during these past two months,
our grassroots group Yarmouth for Everyone has recently decided to terminate the process of seeking adoption of the resolution by vote of the Yarmouth Select Board. We are disappointed that the select board as a whole could not find it within
themselves to support this very genuine effort to reaffirm our care and concern for all those in our town who call Yarmath their home and for those who seasonally visit our town to enjoy the beauty of Cape Cod.
We have decided to take the issues of this resolution directly to the people of Yarmouth. Recognizing that the time has come to give the voters of our town the opportunity to register their vote on May 19th, 2026 through the democratic
process of the town ballot. We understand that the select board will have the opportunity to approve this democratic process but of placing a resolution on the ballot. And we fully hope and indeed expect that our elected officials on the select board will vote
affirmingly, unanimously, and in a timely manner to do so. Thank you again to the select board for your time and for your respect for the intent of this resolution and for the people of Yarmouth, your constituents who seek this good faith effort in support of our
friends, neighbors, and communities within our town. Again, our Yarmouth for Everyone logo with the big heart over the town of Yarmouth says it all. As a town, may we humbly, respectfully, and lovingly live up to the civic and
humanitarian values that this big heart in Yarmouth represents, intends, and indeed envisions for us all. Thank you for your time this evening. >> Thank you, Susan. Yes, ma'am. Good evening. I'm gonna take this really
small now. My name is Sharon Machuga. I'm a property owner at 135 Southshore Drive, which maybe you recognize as Seaside Cottages. Um, and I am a full-time resident in Dennis. I'm here
um as also the president of the board of the Yarmmouth Village Condo Association, which is the um condo association that manages seaside cottages. And I'm here um to express our deep concern for the
lack of work that has been happening on Southshore and also to fully understand the tragic accident that happened in November. We are as devastated as you. That is our backyard. That is on our
property. We will always remember Mr. Reyes and um everyone involved with that accident. But we are at a point now in February where nothing has been done.
We were two or three days from the work being finished in November. We were in really great conversation with Ryan Chase of the um wastewater um department here. He's been great wastewater super assistant wastewater superintendent. We
actually had a meeting recently with Jeff Colby DPW who happens to be here today and a gentleman named Ed from the highway department whose name I didn't get write his last name down. The people who work for the town have been great. However, nothing is still
getting done. We not only are a condo association, but we're running a business at Seaside Cottages. We have uh full-time on-site managers who have had nothing but challenges since November.
And we are very concerned how we had to end our season without being able to properly prep for winter and that our season will start again midappril. I read in the paper that Ravoli was back
on the job and they were starting yesterday. They have not started yesterday. They have not started today. My property manager was told by Ryan Chase that they were going to start this week. I was just told by Jeff in the hallway they're going to start on Monday. We keep losing week after week
after week. We are going to impact our rental season. We are going to lose money. Our owners are not going to be able to get to their homes. We have tenants who can barely get to their homes. The situation there is very bad. I don't know if the select board
has had the opportunity to go visit the site. It's very bad. It's a mess. It's unsafe. And currently there's two signs at the ends of right in front of Seaside from
the two beaches that say road closed. Road closed. We have people living there. We're doing work out of there. This is not a close the road situation. I'm very concerned for my tenants who live there because to me that road
closure means the town of Yarmouth is washing their hands of any liability. Well, we told you the road was closed. It's not safe. I understand the the legal problems. We've been following along,
but I really impel implore you as the select board. We have 36 owners of cottages there. Some have owned since the late 80s. These are longtime people. We don't live there full-time because we're a seasonal community. Seasonal community, excuse
me. But I just implore you to make sure that this work gets done. Whatever you can do, okay? We we right now have probably four weeks where we're still not going to have access to our street
in a in a reasonable way. If you're not familiar with the property, our office is on one side of Southshore Drive. The cottages are across the street. That street has to be passable. The the accident was horrific. There is
no sidewalk on the on the beach side of the street on the ocean side of the street. It's not passable. I don't know except that I felt like I had to come and just speak to you all so you could understand the urgency that we
have and our real um concern for just kind of being overlooked for a few months. Well, you weren't overlooked. I mean, I just want you to know, Sharon, we can't really engage in public comment, but um I will tell you that this board has um worked very hard to
try to move forward. uh we we've as you read in the newspaper we felt like we've made some some progress in um but you have been very much in the forefront of our minds and I would hope um maybe Bob if you can give your contact information
to Bob that um you and him can speak about what we're you know we're trying to achieve and um just know that >> um it was a as you mentioned a horrific situation and um I can't say that we're trying to make the best out of it but We
certainly are trying to u move forward very cognizant of all the people in the area um and the safety of of everybody um including uh Ravoli and their employees. So um it's been a difficult difficult thing and um I'm hopeful we're
um going to see the light at the end of the tunnel soon. So >> we're hoping right along with you and it's encouraging that you come to an agreement. Um, if we lose another week, I'm going to come before you again. That's my job as the president of this
association to try to to make sure that we have a property we can have access to um, legally. Our property opens midappril. >> Understood. If you could give your contact to to Bob and hopefully he can keep you up to date with our progress.
>> Thank you very much for your time. >> Thank you. Is >> there anybody else who would like to address the board? Okay, seeing nobody, we are going to go to our 6:15 um agenda item, which is a fee hearing that was continued from
before. I see the chief back there. >> Thank you all for coming. >> Good evening, Chief. and Jeff is also here. So, we probably I know there's two pieces of this, so we could probably have you both, but let's try to let's try to move this along.
He's like, >> "Madam Chair, if I could just while we have both the chief and um Jeff at the table here, comment on what I think was a great job that you guys did under terrible duress with this storm. I mean,
you you really I I know that everyone would like to have seen it be done a different ways, but I I think you all stood up to the challenge and you handled it well, and I appreciate it. I had a neighbor that right in the heart of the storm um had to go out by rescue
and was quite safe. So, thank you. >> No, no, everybody uh worked really hard. Obviously, great partnership with the DPW. So, thanks for for getting us. >> Yeah, a lot of long hours. Thank you. >> Okay. So, um, we had our first hearing here. Um, and
there's only a couple items on here. We have, um, ambulance fees for, uh, basic life support. Uh, existing is at $1,200. The proposed fee is 1,500. Advanced life support um is basic and advanced. And
the advanced is currently at 1,800 and proposed to be at 2,000. Um, >> I don't think anything has changed since you were here last. I have not had any public uh comment on that. Have we
received any Bob written? I don't think I've received anything. >> Is there anybody here from the public that would like to speak either for or against the proposed ambulance fees? >> Okay. Seeing seeing nobody on that um
we will we will hold and and vote. We'll let we'll go to the next part which is the public works. Uh currently there is uh no fee for compost and what what the ex that's the existing fee. The proposed is um still no fee but residents only
and no commercial vehicles. And we also have an advertised and had a hearing already for the mattress disposal which is currently existing at $25 per mattress and is proposed at $35 per
mattress. Um with that I also did not receive any public comment. Jeff, did you have any >> No, not aware of anything or anything to add. Is there anybody at the in the public here that would like to address the board either for or against um
the public works compost or mattress fees? >> Madam Chair, could I add um one piece of information? Um this is for leaf composting. In case you heard composting and were wondering whether you should bring, you know, carrot stalks and
things like that to to the station, we're really talking only about leaf. I'm just It says it's advertised compost. >> Yeah. >> Oh, I know. But I mean, see, in our amplification, we get we get leaf and they don't >> Yeah. Yeah. It's a point. >> Yes. Leaf and yard waste. Yeah. >> Leaf and yard waste.
>> Yes. >> Okay. Seeing nobody from the public wanting to address the board for against, I'll take a motion to close the public hearing. >> So move. >> Second. Any discussion on the motion? All those in favor? >> I opposed >> hearing none. Is there anybody who would
like to make a motion on the fees? >> I move that we accept the annual fees as pre uh presented and in this hearing today >> to to um go any further into that. >> Okay. >> Second.
>> Okay. Any discussion on the motion? All those in favor? >> Any opposed? >> Unanimous. So, thank you both for coming. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> Trying to make up time. Sorry. Okay, our 635 agenda item is a Emmy
small feasibility update with Dr. Mark Smith who's here this evening. >> Good evening. >> I am well. How are you? >> Thank you. >> Super duper duper.
>> All right. So, we are going to discuss the feasibility. Do you have uh some slides? >> Yeah. Okay. >> To help keep me on >> help me stay focused, keep my ADHD under control. >> Thanks. Appreciate it. Uh good evening
everybody. Um for the public, Mark Smith, superintendent, uh Dennis Armouth Regional School District. Uh thank you for having me here tonight. Uh so uh just for again for people who are tuning in for the first time, I know the board is uh well aware, but uh there's an
opportunity for me to come back. Uh I know there was a conversation that happened at one of your meetings back in December. I think it was the 15th or the 16th uh centered around the Emmy Small building uh committee and its work and moving towards a feasibility study. There were some some questions that were
raised. There were a couple members from the building committee that were here that night. I wasn't able to be here. There was some questions that were raised, some um ideas that were floated. Um and so I had sent the the board a letter and in some response to that, and then I just wanted an opportunity to be
able to come back to sort of speak to some of those things that were raised that night. Um and then be able to have a discussion, answer any questions that the the board has um and update a little bit on what has happened. So, a couple things that aren't in the presentation because they just I just got some information on Friday. So on Friday, um
I updated the school committee last night. On Friday, we did get um the uh a letter from MSBA. Uh so we got copies of the feasibility study agreement. We um got uh a document that has to go essentially certifying that we have
legal counsel. Um and then officially that we'll be invited into the next round for the feasibility. So we're waiting for all that from MSBA, but we got all that came in Friday afternoon. So, I've sent it off to the district's legal council for review and that'll go in front of the building committee. Uh,
we have a meeting uh next week. Um, and so anyways, that's we were waiting for all that documentation from MSBA, but that just just came in Friday afternoon. Anyways, so um what I wanted to cover tonight were four different things that came up
during the December uh meeting. So there were four sort of big buckets of uh conversation that either came up that night or have been in part of sort of subsequent conversations. So one was uh enrollment within the district. The second was the scope of the feasibility
study. The third was the regional agreement um which has already been mentioned tonight. And then the sort of competing priorities that the town of Yarmouth which has also come up tonight. the competing priorities that the town of Yarmouth is uh facing, right? That that have an impact on all your
decision- making as a as a board. So, I just sort of want to talk through um some of those things at least from our perspective as a school district and how they influence uh our decision- making as we go uh forward. So, make sure I'm pointing the right gear. So, when we
talk about enrollment, there's two different things that we talk about and sometimes these things get conflated. Um, so I want to make sure that we're talking about them clearly and concisely. Um, and so when we're talking about enrollment, there's two different types of enrollment. So there's the
enrollment, which is the quote unquote butts in the seats, right? The kids that actually walk in the school every day. And that number um is one of the numbers that we present in our budget slides. This is one of the slides from the current budget. and that that enrollment
has been seeing a five-year increase except for this year. We've seen a decrease this year. We're down um I told the committee last night. Again, it all kind of depends upon when do you look at it. So, what I've been showing for the last several years is the October one number. So, the kids who are actually in
our district on October 1. So, that number was down um just just a little less than 100 kids from last year, October one to this year, October one. But then I looked, okay, February 2nd was yesterday, right? February 2nd of 26
to February 2nd, same time last year. Um, we were down a little over 100 kids, about 120 kids, um, the same time last year as last year. So, you know, and that's not that's not atypical for us. U enrollment, we have a fair amount of what's called churn in that kids come and go throughout the district
throughout the year, entries and exits. Um, so our enrollment does move. it's a snapshot at any given time. Um but anyways, that is there's two again two different types of enrollments. Um but what what you see that drop in students
is something that the entire state is experiencing. There are 15,000 less kids in public school in the state of Massachusetts this year than there was last year. Um it is over represented. um maybe tied to that earlier conversation that was happening in during public
comment there is over represented by English language learners of that 15,000 about just under 7,000 of those students in the state of Massachusetts are English language learners and just under 4,000 of those students are first language not English DY has seen similar
patterns and who is not here this year that was here last year um so those are just the facts on the ground then when we talk about Enrollment. There's a different come on advance. There we go. The other enrollment is
foundation enrollment. So this is some of the kids who show up every day are in this number. But this is all of the kids that both Dennis and Yarmouth are responsible for educating. So it's all the resident students um minus the kids who go to charter. I
mean excuse me that go to chapter 74 school. So minus the kids who go to the tech. But any other kid who go who's eligible to go to a public school um where regardless of where they choose to go to public school uh that is what
makes up the foundation enrollment. And so those numbers u the totals are there on the right hand side going all the way back to uh 2016 all the way up through the present. Um, and you can see, you know, depending upon how you look at it, they've been slowly creeping up over the
last several years, but they're still down if you compare it all the way back to 2016. Um, and then this year, I just grabbed because um, with the governor's numbers, uh, they give you, uh, the FY27 um, foundation enrollment number. So
for, uh, Dennis for FY27, it's 979. So you can see down from uh the FY26 number and for Yarmouth it's 20 or excuse me 2,264. So again down a little bit for a total
of 3,242. So overall down um about 80 kids uh in the foundation enrollment. So both are down both the um kids showing up and the total number of resident children in the
two communities. Now, so the conversation around enrollment was then led to this idea. Okay, so if the if the if there are fewer kids in the district, then we could do some things and the the suggestion was made that we could move
the seventh grade into the high school and then therefore we could move the third grade into the intermediate middle school and then we could consolidate the rest of the kids from me small into the two remaining elementary schools and poof, there's our problem is solved. and we don't have to build a new school. So,
I'd like to talk about those solutions. So, first, could we fit the seventh grade into the high school? Physically, probably. Yes. There's been more than that number of kids in that high school before. That high school was built for a larger number of kids. So, physically, yes, those kids could we could fit
another 200 and something kids into that building. Um, and they could fit. That isn't necessarily the only questions that we need to be asking. um isn't just a numbers game. Uh we there are another questions we would have to ask as a district. First one, first and foremost
most is as a district, do we want to create a junior senior high school? Because you're not just simply moving kids into a building, you're creating a whole new learning environment. Um 7th through 12th building as a junior senior high school. And currently the eighth grade is largely isolated from the rest
of the school. And if you're going to create a 78 building, like for example, the sandwich has a 7 through 12 building. The seventh and n eighth grade are completely isolated from the rest of the building and they run um different staffing. They're teamed. All those
kids, I mean, they have some like they move down to the gymnasium and they use the cafeteria, but as a instructional block, the seventh and eighth grade kids are in one part of the building and then when they move on to nth grade, then they start to integrate into the rest of the high school. So, do we want to
create that model? And if then if we do want to create that model, then how do we reorganize the physical plant in order to support that model? Because right now the physical plant is organized in a way where math is in one wing of the building and science is in another wing of the building and the history department is in another wing of
the building. If you're going to organize in a way to try to keep the seventh and eighth grade isolated into a particular part of the building, you have to reorganize and restructure the building. And what are the costs that are associated with that? I don't know any of that information, but it's not nothing. Um, and then there's a staffing
potentially a staffling implication with that because we're organized in a way right now to support a middle school and a high school. And if we're going to support a junior senior high school, um, again, we'd have to reallocate staffing in a way that would allow us to do that.
And then I'd have to consider and the other layer to that is becomes licensing because certain people or the way the department of ed organizes license sure for um especially for content area folks is by
typically for most content areas is 9 through 12 and then some folks up through some licenses up through 8th grade. So the more people you start to put in a high school that can't also teach upper
grades um limits your flexibility with staffing inside the high school model. So you have then have a whole group of people that are high school staff that can't teach in the high school because you now have seventh and eighth grade in the high school. You need them to be able to teach the seventh and eighth
graders, but they're not licensed to teach your high school kids. So you have people in your history department or your math department or whatever who can teach your seventh and eighth grade kids, but they can only teach your seventh and eighth grade kids. They can't teach your um high school age kids. So now it starts to restrict your flexibility with your staffing. Um
again, all stuff we would have to consider if we were to make this switch. Um and I haven't considered any of the collective bargaining implications with any of this, but I'm sure there are probably some. Um and then the other piece is transportation. Right now, our lowest ridership is at the high school
level. As you might imagine, once as the kids get older, they drive themselves, a sign significant portion of them. Our highest ridership is in grades four through eight. So, you're going to take two of those grade levels and put them in the high school. The lowest number of buses we use is currently at the high school. We'd be increasing the number of
buses that we use at the high school. And again, I just would have we'd have to consider all those implications. So, these are all things that an outsider who would make a suggestion like this wouldn't consider. And these are just the things that I thought of while sitting
laying awake at night in bed. Um, these are the ones that I thought of in a short period of time. The next question was, would the third grade and and really actually think the more I think about it, this question is framed a little bit wrong because would the third grade fit in the intermediate
school? asked the third grade would fit. The question is really then about would Emmy the remaining part of Emmy small fit in the other two schools and the answer to that is no. Third grade yes because you'd have enough room if you moved the seventh grade up the third
grade would fit into the intermediate school. But would the remaining part of me small that was left behind fit into the two other elementary schools? And the answer to that question is no. and it becomes a simple math problem. At at Emmy Small, there are
currently three third grade classrooms. At Station A, you have six. At Baker, you have five. Um that um and so obviously if the plan is to close Emmy Mall, you can't count those classrooms. So then between Baker
and Station A, that leaves you 11 classrooms that will be opened by moving the third grade up. were remaining at Emmy small in preschool through fourth grade uh second grade. That's 12 classrooms that exist
at Emmy Small now. Plus, as I've said before, Emmy Small because Station Avenue is full to the gills. Emmy Small holds all of Yarma's substantially separate special education classrooms. That's four additional classrooms. There's also additional classrooms for
special education, English language acquisition, related services like occupational therapy, etc. Uh, so that creates an and those needs move when the kids move. Those needs don't go away wherever we move them. Um, and so that's
an additional so total that's 21 classrooms. So 21 classrooms in 11 spaces. Even if you were able to consolidate three of those classrooms, you're still now at 18 classrooms that need to go into 11 spaces and it it it
doesn't fit uh in in yeah, they just don't fit. And then there's other considerations with that solution. So if we're talking about the solution now we're talking about okay so some group of Yarmouth
kids have to go to Baker. So who goes do we say South Yarmouth just for argument sake and we're going to just decide to cut some line across Yarmouth and say all those South Yarmouth kids are going to go to Ezra Baker and is that the best
decision for the youngest kids in South Yarmouth? I would make an argument against that, but we would definitely have to have that conversation. And then if that went all the way through, Baker is going to be 100 years old very
soon. It needs its own major renovation, potentially its own new elementary school. But whether it's a major renovation or whether it's own elementary school, if we were to go all the way through with this somehow make this whole plan work and now there's somewhere in the ballpark of a 100 to
120 Yarmouth kids every day going to school in a Dennis school now. So you're talking to 100 to 120 out of 400 to 450 kids in that school >> and young students. >> Yeah. Which is fine. like the but then
it comes back to the regional agreement and you want to now Dennis is going to build a new school. Is Dennis going to build a new school for Yarm that where a quarter of the kids in it are Yarmouth kids without Yarmouth paying for some portion of it? And is Yarmouth going to
want to pay for an elementary school in Dennis? >> These are all important questions to make sure it gets sorted out well before we end up down this path. Um, and then further, if we were to move the third grade to the intermediate
school, you start underutilizing a building that was built for kids for four through seven. By moving the seventh grade out, you're now not using spaces designed for seventh graders. You know, there's definitely a
I'm I'm uh sarcastic by nature. My wife loves it, I say with sarcasm. Um, and so there's definitely one uh sardonic line in my um, and I don't know if the chief's still here, so I apologize, chief, but I used you as an example. Um,
but >> the, you know, there was a comment made about if we look at this problem just as uh as buildings that have classrooms and but the buildings are designed specifically to meet the needs of our
kids. So, a seventh grade building is built with science labs to meet the needs of seventh grade kids. If we just move the kids somewhere else, then now all of a sudden we've got these specifically designed building that the community supported and is a beautiful building that we're now moving the kids away from and we're going to stick third grade kids in that are never going to
use those lines science labs in the way they were originally designed to be used. Um, and you know, the example I gave to the committee and I'll say for the public is if the chief needed a new fire truck, we wouldn't say just take a dump truck. Yes, they're both big trucks with big engines, but they are
specifically designed to meet a specific purpose. And so are facilities. So are schools. They're designed in a specific way to meet a specific purpose for a specific group of kids. The last piece around enrollment is where and where it ties into the feasibility study is uh enrollment
projections moving forward. So, some folks have, you know, questioned the enrollment going forward and and concerns that the district is somehow conflating or not conflating, inflating the uh enrollment projections.
MSBA has a process for sizing buildings. The district doesn't say this is what the number of kids are going to be in the future. MSBA looks at DPH information. they look at we provide them with some information around I know
the town was very supportive in providing us some potential you know some of the information around housing um development in the future etc but they're looking at housing trends they're looking at enrollment trends they're looking to birth to um
kindergart yeah yeah birth to kindergarten survival ratios they're looking at all this information stuff that they use for every building project across the entire state and then they give us a an enrollment projection the we get to give them a little bit of input, but it's their process and they
have come up with based upon their process, they've determined what the projected enrollment will be if we end up with a single school or if we end up with some type of a consolidated school and what they project as a as a slight decline and then a stable enrollment
into the future, which is largely what we've seen. Um and their projection is exclusive meaning not including preschool for the for the district. Um but these again the important part here is the district didn't come up with this
number. This is MSBA. This is their process. Um and and and all the backup for this information is on posted on our website um and has been presented to the building committee both versions of it because they did a district-wide one and
then they did a Yarmouth specific one once they sort of realized that this was only a Yarmouth specific project because they did a DY one. They did Dennis and Yarmouth originally. Now, as we get into the feasibility study, there's been some concerns that have come up around the feasibility
study. Um, and I'm hoping to settle a couple of these concerns. Um, some of the concerns have been that if I was to put them in a nutshell is that the feasibility study is this foregone conclusion that this we've already
arrived at a conclusion and that we're just going through this process to come out at some conclusion that's already been determined. And so when we met last time as a building committee um last month, I walked through several items
from the these are from the MSBA documents. And I just want to highlight some of the same stuff that I highlighted for the building committee so that we're all on the same page. So this is right from um the documents linked right there on the bottom if anybody wants to go look it up for themselves. But feasibility study
guidelines process that we have to follow. It has all the steps in it. It's like a 20page document. So, I just highlighted a couple things and I added some emphasis um for us to focus in on some of the most important things. But first and foremost, and you will see this phrase multiple times throughout
this entire document, the MSBA is looking for the most cost effective and educationally, but they always put cost-ffective first in front of educationally appropriate solution. MSBA doesn't want to spend any more money than the town does. So, they're always looking for us to find the most
cost-effective solution. and the the entire process, the district, the town can't go out on our own. If we can't, if we do want to go out on our own, when I'll show on the next slide, um well, actually, no, it says it right on this slide. I got ahead of myself, is if if
we try to get out ahead without the MSBA that we're not going to be eligible for any funding. So, it's really important for us to make sure we understand that. And I I know uh Mr. Mr. Written has been has said this I think here and I know we
said it multiple times um in the building committee meetings. MSBA has their process and we really are beholden to MSBA's process and following their process but for those people that are concerned about the process is important
to look in the details. Right? So when we move to the next slide here, this is right in the MSBA's um feasibility study agreement document and it talks about what some people were concerned about is are we going to study uh appropriate
alternatives and this is again this is like maybe three pages into the document and it says that this is one of the very first steps is that working with the designer that uh the designer must perform a preliminary evaluation of alternative
alternatives and this is to make sure again that the study determines the most coste effective um program in order that's supported by both the community and the board of directors right it's always about this partnership and that the preliminary
evaluations and I really tried to draw emphasis to is sufficiently comprehensive in scope and initially considers all possible solutions. So it is not we can say just do this and do this like it the this in the very beginning all
possible solutions has to be um considered uh as part again as part of MSBA's process and then as you get a little further in um it goes on to further describe well what does this
have to look like and each alternative has to provide a description of the alternative um it has to talk about whether or not it it does or does not fulfill the educational program. It has to talk about um provide an an assessment of the impact on the
construction estimated preliminary construction and project costs. It has to provide a ton of information so that ultimately the group can get to the uh the um building committee can get
to a preferred solution which is ultimately what then will end up in front of and none of this gets anywhere until it gets back in front of the um MSBA and in front of the voters and through the school building committee in
to finally get approved. for anything to move forward. There's like 6,000 well 6,000's hyperbole, but there's like so many checks and steps and collection of information to support the decision-making process. So any sort
of discussion that we're not going to examine all the alternatives that the examining all the alternatives isn't part of the process is I don't know it just quite frankly is a red herring. It's baked into the process and I just
want to make sure that people who are maybe worried that this is going to get run away. It's a and it's a 914 day process. So it we're going to be in this for a while, the feasibility study. Um so for
folks that are worried that this is going to somehow spin out of control, I heard like the idea of the Lexington High School was an example that was used. We're not building a high school. We have zero need for a field house and we're not Lexington.
It's a bad comparison and it's only used to scare people. When you bring up Lexican Lexington High School in Yarmouth, you're using it for a particular reason and it's to make people nervous.
We have a building project right here that is came in on time and under budget. The last two items that were discussed, one was the regional agreement which I know again was discussed today in in public comment. So two things, one role
as superintendent. It's not my job to open up I don't actually don't have any authority to open up the regional agreement. Um my job currently is to exercise the regional agreement as it's written and as was approved by the the voters in both towns. Should
the school committee want to open up the regional agreement, I will provide any support that they need, provide them with drafts, do research, etc., etc. It was mentioned that in that same meeting that there's a fundamental
problem with the regional agreement when asked. The only thing that was pointed out would to me be what would be a typographical error in the fund in the regional agreement that the name of a school isn't listed even though the school itself is listed and the funding
for that school is identified. At the time the regional agreement was signed, that school wasn't completed yet, so it doesn't have a name. But but that doesn't mean that there aren't things that folks would want addressed. And if that's the case, what I think would be
most helpful to the school committee would be, and I think you all might be discussing it next, would be to specifically identify like what are the things that are people are most concerned about and to draft something to the chair. And just having come from another
region, another two- town region, what's going to be most helpful or most maybe not help. Yeah, I think maybe helpful is the right word is it's got to be something that's going to draw both towns into a conversation, right?
>> And that's what's going to need to bring everybody to the table is what what what are things that everybody needs to wants to discuss. Um, and in my previous region, there was one town who always wanted to open the agreement, but it was only to benefit the one town, and it
wasn't something to draw the other town into the conversation. So, you need to find find something that's going to want to bring both both communities back to the table to have a conversation. Um, and then last, the idea of of the competing priorities,
and this is an understandable reality, and I I guess really all I want to say is yes and um the residents in the town are managing multiple needs in the community. I've I've sat and listened in several of your meetings. I watch
several your meetings online and I get updates on different things that I'm not able to get to. So, as a community, just the few things that I know you're dealing with, uh, you know, our wastewater, our affordable bioing, the library, the muck committee, this project. Um, these are just a few of the
big things that you're managing as a board. Um, and what I think was really important and what I'm trying I the reason why I'm back here today is to make sure that we don't end up in this position of pitting the schools against
the towns because that doesn't benefit any of us. We're all in this same challenge together. The reality is we all have the same needs. When I talk to the chiefs, whether it's this town, whether it's the other town, when I talk to any of the leads, when I listen to the challenges that you're all dealing with, we're all dealing with the same
challenges. We all are looking at for workforce development. We are all looking for how to recruit and maintain staffing. We're all looking at how to support a a local economy, looking for economic development. It supports all of
us. that benefits all of us. Um, how do we maintain recreation um and health and safety for the community and for our staffing? For for me, my clientele is kids, right? So, how do I maintain a health uh healthy and safety safe
environment for the students and really want to make sure we're having yes and conversations versus trying to pit people into boxes where they have to make a choice between the schools or the town, right? that when we get into these either or conversations, us versus them conversations, we're just creating
battlegrounds that in my opinion we don't we shouldn't be having. So that me okay well uh first of all I appreciate you coming here um and for your presentation.
Um I know that uh we tried to all get on the same page uh but were unable to coordinate it scheduling wise. So you um I thought it was fair that you had the opportunity to address some of the
comments that were made and um be able to state your position on that so that the public can hear it and I think it's important. So uh with that we will open it up to the board. Liz, do you have questions? Um most it's not a question because I think it was clear as can be
and I um am now on the this the building committee and got the documents and I poured over them myself and came with all of the highlighting that Dr. Smith has now featured because it was abundantly clear to me that this is not
a prescription. it is a um an analysis going to be done by the MSBA that's very sight specific, student specific and that we will have a chance to apply appraise it and and make a decision. So, I'm but I'm also um would like to say
that kind of glad that the questions were raised and even though it was a lot of work for you to answer the questions, it's it's good that we now have those questions answered. So, thank you for
that for for making it so clear and it also just ramps up my confidence in your being the school's district superintendent. Thank you, >> Joyce. >> Um, I had a question based on your
experience, Dr. Smith. Um, given that you were last in a a two town district, did you find that the school building association projections were fairly accurate with all the data that they
projected about how many how many children people might have in that town? And did you find that they really followed through? >> Yeah. The hardest thing that they have a uh time predicting and quite frankly that all of us have a time hard time
predicting um is school choice. The school choice environment is a unique environment. Uh it's really the the it's here on the Cape. I mean there are other places where it exists but the the flow
of students >> um here in the Cape and then there's some spots like out in the Birkshars where you get this the high level participation by the schools and I don't know the like quite frankly some active
recruitment like like the work that goes into school choice the the environment around school choice is unique here on the Cape and Like I said, some spots in the Birkshars. Um, but like the idea of kids going to another public, they might choose private, they might choose
paroial, they might choose a charter school or our vote tech school like we have here, but for kids to choose another public school like inside the 128 belt, talk to superintendents out there like no, it's not a thing. Um, that's very much a uniqueness to hear.
So when you talk to demographers, when you talk to um people who try to forecast enrollment uh or you know in this case MSBA, it is a a a conundrum because it is very um fickle.
I'm very glad that you outlined the uh time period for us because I think hearing about the 900 plus days um made us feel that we were less rushed into something and you know whatever we we might say tonight would be be um
engraved in stone. Um I think um that that we really do need to give this a lot more study. Um, but certainly I found some of your arguments about the problems with sending the younger students to Baker and then the
responsibility of the town of Yarmouth for Baker renovations, Baker new building or anything like that. I found those pretty compelling. Thank you. >> Thank you. A lot of work went into this. I can see that. Um, appreciate it. And
u, you know, as Joyce said, um I think Liz did too, that questions are a good thing. I mean, really and truly, a lot of times communication is more important than anything else. And unfortunately timing wise we weren't
able to get you here for that to have um but in in that way but in another way it gave you an opportunity to see what had been discussed and be able to research it and come back um and and give us um
your renderings and what was going on. Um I feel that you you see the urgency that we have in town. We've got a lot of things coming up. I mean, we were hearing from one of our residents today
about how they're they're impacted by the whole Southshore Drive. You know, I mean, every day, you know, it ticks even more. And uh so you can understand that we really want to try to do what's best for
everyone. But I 100% agree with you. There should never be any pitting of us. is them. I've unfortunately seen that in action in the towns before and it's never productive. So, um I'm I'm with
you on that one. And >> yeah, and I was just say I wholeheartedly agree with the the the the getting as the information out and that's why I really just wanted to articulate that that's the purpose of the process, right? And
now will everybody be paying attention to the building committee meetings? Probably get about as much viewership as we get of the school committee meetings quite frankly. But um but so we need to work on trying to get you know figure out how to disseminate that information
out so that when when we do show up for and need people to make important decision votes it's not the first time they're getting the information even though you know it's been presented in those places um you know through the building committee which are public meetings are recorded are posted right
but that doesn't mean everybody's getting that information. So that'll be that actually came up the last building committee meeting is some somebody in the committee said you know how might we think about you know a communication vehicle for making sure we get information out. So the committee is already thinking about um thinking about
that as well. I mean, I said it's probably a year year and a half ago at this point back in when we very first started these conversations uh when I was sitting in front of front of you all that I I personally think when we
eventually get to whatever decision the the town folks are making, we should be able to say if somebody stands up and say, "Did you consider this?" We should be able to say yes and here's what we found out.
>> Give everyone all the facts and then let them make the decisions from there. >> I agree with you. Thank you, >> Mark. >> Thank you. >> Well, since I'm the one that seemed to stir up all the trouble here by insisting on having a meeting, I mean,
my intention uh I thought I made this clear before was that, you know, I could not stay on the committee. I wanted this board to understand the kinds of questions and issues that we're going to have to wrestle with and so that if someone wanted to serve on the building
committee that have some idea of the questions that we're wrestling with. Um, and I wasn't looking for you today to come with answers to all the questions. I just want to make sure that we've identified the questions and we'll seek to get answers to the questions. Um, I I find it reassuring that you're making it
abundantly clear that we're going to look at all possible solutions and my hope is that includes no build because there's a segment in the community that wants to make sure that we evaluate that. Uh there's there's no way around it. If we don't address that question,
it's going to undermine the the credibility and and it's going to undermine the project. So that needs to be considered and that needs to be part of the conversation and it needs to be part of the examination of the options. If we don't examine that, I don't see
this community providing the kind of support we're hoping for. Now, that doesn't mean that we're pitting one group against another. There's nothing about this at all. I mean, the reality is is in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, we've got 33,000 people leaving the state every year. That's
because the cost of living in this state is way too high. People feel taxes are too high. Cost of living has been breaking people. And we need to all be sensitive to that. And that's clearly part of the message that I wanted to
bring to the board is that we all have to be concerned about that and make sure that we're looking at all of the alternatives because we're not just providing scrutiny to the schools. We're providing the same level of scrutiny to all of the projects. And
asking ourselves, can we afford this? Is now the time to do this? Is there another better way to accomplish the objective? So, um there's no intent here to pit schools against I mean I honestly believe that this is a community that
embraces its kids. It embraces its youth. I think this is a community that wants us to do more. Um, I think this is a community that, um, very much appreciates the diversity of services and support that our schools provide our
kids. Um, I I think the teachers are held in high regard in the town of Yarmmouth and um, we take pride in in the work that goes on there. My kids went through the school system. I I I thought the school system did a wonderful job with my kids and I've seen
this. I've seen the evidence of it consistently. What we need to do though is we need to together sort of embrace these challenges and figure out how we can get through them so that you can do your job and the and the and the teachers and the administration can do
fulfill its mission and that we can somehow figure out a way to do it um in a way that we can afford. Um I would love to see more state aid for the schools. I mean, the fact that we've had significant state aid in recent years has been a huge help in terms of us
getting going forward. Um, I think now given I mean, you know, we're following the budget process with the schools and I know soon enough we're going to be having to have that conversation because you're facing challenges there as well. So, I think um we've got a lot more
tough discussions ahead, but I think having had a discussion in December and having some discussion about this today is helpful. I think we need to continue to interact both um here and in in the committee meetings to sort of hash these out. And you're right, you do have a
challenge about communicating this because ultimately when people show up at town meeting or go to vote, they're going to want to have some confidence that a lot of hard work has been spent looking at all the options and that ultimately what they're voting on is the
best possible option of all of the alternatives. if they don't get the alternatives, then we're going to have difficulty convincing them of the final solution. So again, I appreciate you being here. Uh again, my intent in meeting in December was to begin a conversation so that the new
representative on the building committee will at least have some idea of what they're walking into. And I think we started that and you're right there they're going to be disagreements, but at least let's have a conversation. So this I believe we're this is part of an ongoing conversation and ongoing updates
and uh as we proceed. So I appreciate you once again being here to speak openly and honestly about how you see things. Um and um you know let let the conversations continue. >> Yeah. And I and I think my
I don't know maybe my point or whatever would be that if we're going to have conversations about the schools or important things about the schools, I really think it's important that I'm a part of those conversations. you know that my biggest issue with the
conversation on the 16th was that a pretty significant conversation was being discussed relative to the school district potential deci you know I know no decision was made because you can't you know that decision is not going to
be made outside of the school committee etc but like a large idea was floated relative to the school district, to the building committee, etc., and the lead executive
for the school district wasn't present. >> You know, it would be like discussing a public safety issue and not having the chief of police there or the fire chief there. Um, it just didn't feel right.
And I don't think if if we had tried to do something similarly on the school side >> and it wouldn't have flown, right? So I just asking in the future that
we try not to do that because I feel like my job is to be the most informed, the most prepared executive for the school district. that that is what they pay me to do, right? To be their lead representative and so
that when these conversations come up, I can come and be the lead spokesperson for the school district. >> Can I respond? >> Sure. >> Yeah. I there was no intention here to vote on anything or decide anything. It was only for the purposes like I said I
my plans were to resign from the committee and I wanted to make sure that a future replacement we can make a decision on that relatively quickly and to get that conversation going so that the a new successor could at least understand what they might be walking into. That was the purpose of it. It
wasn't to decide anything or recommend anything. We had no intent whatsoever to make any decisions or recommendations formally. It was basically to at least highlight some of the issues that people should be aware of and not just but from me but from some of the other members of the committee that shared some of my
concerns. So I don't really want to debate this. I don't think there's a need to. Um but I do respect your desire to be included in this and I would certainly take that into strong consideration in the future. But we do as a board talk about the schools from
time to time and it's important that we post it on the agenda and uh so that's what we did this time. So hopefully in the future it'll accommodate your schedule. We can work things out and we won't be pressed for time like we were back in December. Well, so um you know I I get I am happy
that the discussion happened because I think it's extremely important for the citizens to know and as you've outlined tonight that everything's still on the table. I think back at town meeting I was taken a little bit
offguard and I know you and I had this conversation that you were very specific about the three options. That was the first time we heard that. So, it seemed to me that that feasibility process that you talked about that everything uh was going to be on the table had already
kind of been decided because there was no no build option that was discussed at town meeting. I'm not saying that that is the way to go. Emmy Small is in horrific shape. We need a new school. We need to do something. I don't think it's
safe for anybody to be even be working in there. the fact that we have um a large percentage or about over 50% reimbursement, right? 54 >> 50 the I just got a update from MSBA which I have to get some clarification
on but it the last email that I got was 54.6 I think. >> So that's real money, right? It's real money and as unfortunate as as it is that we're in a tough situation, we have to do something and um that's real money that's going to help. So, I think the
conversation to make sure that everything is on the table because as Mark has indicated, when we go to vote, I think people want to hear and make sure that we've considered all the options. And I think that that's really the crux of of the entire conversation.
Unfortunately, we've been here before and I can't I can't say I was jazzed about the process. um and our our involvement at all in the process at that time. Um
>> you mean with the intermediate school? >> With the intermediate school. Yeah. And the way um it kind of shaped up without any input. Um I'm not saying that that's going to happen this time. Obviously, it's a different sit situation when it's a a one-own school as opposed to a two-
town school, but um you know, unfortunately, we have had that experience already and our residents at the end didn't support it and I don't want that to happen again. So, I just I I'm not trying to pit anybody. I just think we have to communicate and make
sure that we put forth the best possible option. And I have no no doubt that that's going to happen. So, we just need to talk about these things and I think that it's really important that we have these conversations in public as many places as we can because we say the same
thing, right? We we have 10 meetings about the warrant before we get to town meeting because we want to make sure that everybody has the information. Then we get to town meeting and there's we don't you know people don't have the information. So, we all struggle with with that with getting
trying to do the best we can to reach everybody and get the information out. But um you know 900 days is is a long time still yet. Uh we are going to talk next about the regional agreement. I I appreciate all of your um your comments.
I don't feel like they're competing priorities. Um you know they're equally as important. It's just finding the path forward. You know the path that's going to be supported. Um and uh you know the enrollment numbers
we've we we dealt with this at the intermediate school. We've dealt with it with the Cape Tech school. Um you know MSBA has their their own process. I'm not sure it's it's um keeping up as currently as you know we're seeing real
time on the ground. So, you know, we want to make sure that the numbers are right and people are are skeptical about it and it should be researched and we want to make sure that we build for what we need and what the future needs. You know, I was disappointed with the tech. I mean, the tech they built for the
current population. It's a great school. There's a there's a waiting list to get in there. It would be great if we had um you know, the census or the MSBA allowed us to actually build for what the need is. Um but they didn't. So, in this in
this situation, we just kind of have to take all of the things and and look at it um and hope that we get, you know, the right number at the end because, you know, we've closed, as you know, we've closed two schools. So, we've certainly
seen the decline. We saw it go back up a little bit. Um and now we're watching it go the other way. Um I know that there's a lot of research. There's a lot of people who put a lot of analysis in that and um I'm not an expert in projecting the census. I know that some people have
some more experience on other levels what we've looked at it for housing. So all that has been discussed, right? But like you said tonight, the MSBA has their own process and their own numbers. So, I don't know how you align all that together to make sure that it's it's the
right one or what the process is just just on that getting that number nailed down to something that everybody's comfortable with. Um, but I appreciate the fact that, you know, we built we built a new school with science labs for seventh grade. I I I mean, I think that those things are are extremely good
points. Um, we have some underutilized uh buildings, right? We have some some space somewhere. I just want to make sure that we have looked at all the options. That's that's that's my thing. I I think that if I feel that way, I I guarantee
you that um a lot of members of the public feel that way. So, we just need to keep working at it, keep talking about about it and and making sure that you know the experts I'm I'm not an expert in that field, but when when we say you know you could fit 200 kids at
the high school, I heard today, right? So, what could we do? >> Yeah. So, I mean, I guess that that's really the So, the intermediate middle school is full. It's at its capacity that it was built for. It was built for 970 kids. It's got 974 kids in it. And
last year it was over capacity at 990 kids. So, um that school is full. Station A is full. Emmy Small maybe has room for a couple more kids. Baker is largely full. It's had more kids in it in the past, but it also didn't have the subseppparate programs that it has in it
now. Right. So when you start adding substantially separate programming like you can fit more kids in the classroom but you can't fit more kids in the program right so more kids could fit in the room physically but they can't fit
in the program and so the the high school is the only space that has like more capacity although we're you like I could walk anybody in there we're using all this space right now but could >> when I say underutilized Guys, I don't
necessarily mean just your school. Like in my mind, I'm thinking, you know, people have talked about Lawrence MacArthur and other alternatives. So, I'm not just talking about that school building. I'm talking about town buildings generally, >> right? Yeah. I mean, if you want me to, we could turn this space into a couple
kindergarten classrooms. It already is. >> You could have your meeting a lecture hall. Yeah. >> But I mean, but at some point in time, too, it's like >> like what do you The community has to have conversations. What does it want for its children? Yes. Could we cram
six kindergarten classrooms into the high school? Sure. Is that what we want for the kids? >> If you put them on half rations in the cafeteria, you could fit even more >> because you could physically jam the kids in the high school. But then now
you've got your kindergarten kids in the high school. And then I have to figure out how to make it work like from a program st stand standpoint. And you've got your kindergarten kids in the high school. And then we have to figure out how to And I've been in a school that converted from a K to8 school to a pre-K to2 school. You have to think about
things like the toilets. >> Um yeah, because kindergarten kids use different sized toilets than high school kids, right? So there's there's lots to consider and and even just like how to protect the stair railings. Like there's just all these things you have to
consider when you have younger kids in a school that's designed for older kids. Um and again we I worked in a school district that had K to8 schools and then we reorganized and made one of the schools a pre-k to 2 and we had to redesign the you know the inside of the
plant in a much different way because it was design now going to re be repurposed for an entirely different um uh usage than what we had. We didn't have to change it into a different type of building but the building served a different purpose. Um, and it required a
lot of work, >> right, >> and money. >> Understood. I just think that everything should be on the table. I think that we should make sure all those analysis, you're the expert. You're the one who needs to tell us that those are the things that we need to think of when we say you have room for 200. I use your
expertise, but I think that we need to make sure that everything's been looked at. >> Yeah. Well, and that'll be the as I mentioned to the building committee. So the we'll our first task as a building committee will be to hire an OPM and the OPM will then help us hire the um the
designer and the designer will do a lot with the direction of the building committee in the district on the educational program like what are we looking what what are the needs that need to be served by the kids that are at Emmy Small right now and then they'll take that and they'll go out and look
and explore all the alternatives because you still need to meet the educational program at the end of the day. So where what are all the alternatives that could potentially meet that educational program and then what are the costs associated with trying to do it X Y Z
>> AB C D FG >> etc. >> Well, I appreciate your time and I hope we continue to have updates as we move forward and um >> yeah, I don't know if anybody has any anything else. >> Knowledge is key.
>> Yeah, >> knowledge is key. Yeah, >> thank you so much. >> Thank you. >> All right. So, next we're going to discuss the regional agreement update and um I guess what they're looking for. I mean, I know personally I've asked
several times for several years because I don't I don't really I I kind of disagree with Dr. Smith in in the respect that we need to outline specifics that are there. I just think that between both towns, we should be continuously talking about these things.
I mean, there's a lot of I wouldn't I would agree with him that I would say not substantial, but you know, there are schools that aren't listed in here. There are schools that are no longer district schools. Um there's a variety of things um that, you know, we could
talk about. You know, Joe mentioned um representation. Uh yeah, I've had a problem with the recall, no recall provision that goes back to our last negotiation. Um I'm not saying it should be an easy process, but I think that anybody who's elected um should have uh
the the uh residents should have some process of which to recall somebody who's elected. It shouldn't be an easy thing to do, but I'm not asking for them to have any less than what we have. We have a recall provision. Why wouldn't our school committee members have that? you don't know what potentially could
happen. >> Um there's just a lot of little things like that. Um I don't want to wait until we are in the crux of a um significant issue like we did the last time. Um we
talked about, you know, we did the five-year rolling average the last time we were there, but we were trying to get to an agreement to be able to build the school. I don't want to get to that point again. I think that we should constantly be looking at this as a matter of like, you know, our charter. We look at our charter every 10 years by
charter law. There's no provision in here um for us to open up the regional agreement. I think that if both towns would like to open up the regional agreement, we should have the ability to do that. Right now, only the school committee can do that.
>> So, you know, those are just a few of my thoughts. I know um when we talked um Dr. Smith was talking about the regional agreement in terms of the way capital is um supposed to be appropriated uh by the regional agreement. It's not it's not in
practice what we do now with capital. Um you know they they have been talking a lot about their uh capital stabilization funds and getting a policy together about how they're going to fund it. But right now, capital is supposed to be
within the budget right now. And that's, you know, we take a lot of the town buildings out, put it into our capital. Um, so there's just there's to me there's sub maybe not substantial, but there's quite a few items in here that I think that we should we should just be
discussing. >> Do you want me to start making a list and circulate it perhaps? No discussion of course offline, but >> No, I don't understand. Do you want me to bring back for instance to the next meeting a list of um
>> I think we should talk about it right now while it's on the agenda and and send a letter to either the school committee and the town of Dennis and ask them to open up the regional agreement so that we can work through >> let's do that then >> that's my personal opinion
>> lift it's just needs to be done. >> Yeah. I'm I'm confused because I had never heard before public comment tonight um from anyone who ever wanted a 10 10 member school committee um with seven being from Yarmouth. I I think
that's kind of unwieldy. Um I hope we're going to be realistic in the stuff that we think about with the regional agreement. >> Well, I think anything should be on the table that our partner wants to discuss. I mean, I'm not saying our way is the right way, but I think we should
negotiate. If we're 70% if we're 70% of our school, why aren't we 70% of the voice? I mean, that's that's the question. That's what Mr. Glenn was getting at. >> Yeah, I do see the difference between the 60% current and the 70% that a 10
member board would provide. But we >> it just seems like a big board. Well, I mean, maybe it's not that, but but certainly the representation should represent the percentage that we participate
funding educationally, studentwise. I mean, when it was when it was done, we probably were at that 60 40 >> 50 something. >> Oh, here he comes. >> Yes, sir.
>> Through the chair. So the the way the regional agreement reads is it was originally a 10 member board and then I don't have the dates off the top of my head but there was a there was a date in time in which uh the board was sort of
went through a reduction process um to get down to the current seven member board and the way the board is I mean excuse me the committee is currently um constituted is based upon the number of total residents in the two towns. So that's where the representation comes
from and it's based upon a census an annual or a review of the census of the number of yearround residents and it then it's done by uh applying a ratio and then rounded to the nearest whole number and it's close but it is
currently still within a rounding if you round up and round down the numbers which you which is again the rounding is appropriate that um based upon the total number of yearround residents based upon the census in the army and the number of year- round residents in Dennis the
current again that's what the re how the regional agreement currently reads is based upon it's not based upon the assessment it's based upon the number of year-round residents so that's how you got from where it used to be like in the 70s to where it is now I think it was
like in the mid80s was when the transition happened >> y and I appreciate that I just I just think that every every piece in here >> should we should have a discuss on I mean it may not >> madam chair >> yes >> before the superintendent leaves the
podium while he's here are you aware of districts that have been structured based on assessments or some other factor other than population because it's not unusual for governments government bodies to be structured like for example the county does a municipal
assessment for county revenues and that's based on assessed valuation so there are other different sort of criter criteria or formula that are utilized. I'm just curious if indeed the assessment you're familiar with a district agreement where it's based on
the budget or financing. >> Um so we talking about the way we get to the assessment or are we talking about representation on the >> talking about representation in terms of the school committee? Yeah. >> Um I've seen different models. So the one that I came from it was equal number
of members but weighted votes. Um, so there was, you know, the committee that I came from, if I remember correctly, there was, it was an eight member committee, but one town had half votes versus the other uh town having full votes.
>> Um, and I'd have to go back and do some history on how that came to be, but there are different models depending upon um, and then again you start getting into three member town um, regions and four member regions and all that starts to change a little bit. But so there are lots of different models.
That's helpful to know that there are lots of different >> and again should this all going back to my slide should this be something that the group wants to consider that would be part of my responsibility would be to provide the research on all that for people to consider what other models they might want to explore.
>> Appreciate that. Thank you. >> I just I'm not I'm not you know my feet aren't dug in on this. These are just all things I I don't see I don't see why we aren't collectively between the three
groups just discussing these things. >> Maybe because we have so much else that we're doing. Maybe that's it. >> No, it's it's okay. Well, we can we can assume that. But >> we >> Well, I'm guessing because some of the stuff like
>> Well, can I can I respond to your question? I think, you know, we we have a in the past we've had a government oversight committee in Yarmouth that would be convened by the select board and they would convene and meet prior to the regular time interval that's
outlined in the charter. We'd convene a group. We'd ask them to meet with, you know, officials in the town, hold some public meetings, get input on issues that should be addressed in the charter, and then come back to the select board with recommendations. Um, I
don't see if why there isn't any system like that. I I think that's the point you're making is why aren't we going through some kind of healthy some regular process? >> Charlotte Strabel, she was quite good. >> Exactly. So it may very well be that maybe we can at least come to an agreement on having a regular review
process and at least coming to an agreement on that and a structure for that. >> That would be the start. >> That would be a great start. >> So and and maybe that's the that's what we put out on the table. >> Yes. is to create a process where what but why we can come together in a less
stressful way >> working group >> with a working group a committee that's convened periodically to hold hearings and meetings and entertain uh recommendations on adjustments that might need to be made in the regional agreement and then we have a group reporting back to the respective bodies
that might be a way to deal with it I'm just saying that this is how we do it with municipal government there may be a need to create a similar similar process for for the schools. Um I'm intrigued with the idea of um adjusting the way
the representation is structured. You know, population may be no longer an appropriate mechanism. Um maybe it's best that it's based on who pays. I mean, there has been this there has been this saying we've heard
before, taxation without representation. Um I mean, there may be a need to sort of revisit that. Um, and I have no problem if we assign our own staff to at least do some initial work on some of this stuff >> to help us become better informed before
we embark on some other road. Maybe we want to have our own committee. Um I mean I think there are variety of ways to to to to approach this but I do think that there is a value in creating some kind of mechanism bringing together the school committee the town the dentist
the town of Yarmouth to at least periodically reassess and review. Now the downside in that is is you know how's the structure of that who gets appointed when do they meet and the recommendations have to be unanimous or
by you know how to structure that but >> but I would recommend beginning a conversation on how to institutionalize a review like we do with charters. I'm sure Dennis has a review of their charter baked into their into their town charter. We have it baked into ours.
Although I think it's worth us checking as to how we're doing on keeping up with our responsibilities on that. So before we go too far down the road, we might want to we might want to check on how we're doing. >> We did. >> Yeah. But um you know I I'm I'm very comfortable with a letter from the chair
inviting, you know, uh a meeting and a discussion with the respective chairs of the various boards to at least have an initial discussion to go over that to begin that conversation. >> Sounds good. >> How does that sound? I think similar to actually to draw upon what the
superintendent did with the um budget process, you know, that he collectively reached out to Dennis and Yarmouth and put together Bob could kind of speak to that u like a a subcommittee where that that's exactly what's going on because at the end of
the day, it's going to be a discussion that has to happen between all three parties is my opinion. So, you know, starting probably with having the chairs of the of the various boards who are their design
uh and the town managers and um and the school superintendent. I mean, these were all the people that we saw at um at the uh budget meetings that we were looking at, which was a wonderful process. Thank you very much, Dr. Smith.
And and something that had not really happened before. um you know opening up and um I think again knowledge is power you know there's a lot that's learned from that kind of thing and um I think that would be a good starting point for
this because >> I mean interestingly enough we discussed at the meeting that Dr. Smith convened last Friday as an update from the first session that he organized in October to bring all the parties together on the
budget of areas that we were talking about with the Dennis officials and the school officials were possible amendments to the regional agreement that dealt with timing of the budget. um you know when the various hearings and
notifications and and I think um all of the parties kind of agreed that we may all benefit from having it outlined in a way that um gives the individual parties more time to you know make the
decisions. So, so that's one area that you know could be worked on with the regional agreement that we've talked about and it seemed that there was universal agreement there >> and that could just be the stepping stone then into the the agreement itself and looking at it um because any
document I mean any corporation will tell you you know you generally do like a five-year review just to ensure that everything is kind of up to date things change >> um populations change. Um, so I think
that would be a really great place to start. >> Joyce, >> I'm good. >> Okay, Liz. >> Yes, I encourage us to reach out and um set up a a working group building off of
the capital the budget um working on the the budget with the school district and Dennis and Yarm. same model. Let's work on the U regional agreement together. >> But maybe always being aware that um
dollars are not the only way to measure. >> Understood. >> Does that give you direction, Bob? Well, I think that, you know, the the main question that I that I have from um the meetings that that we attended, the school committee seemed to indicate that
um you know, they would welcome a letter that would ask them to start looking at the at the agreement. And when when we talked, we only had a um portion of the representation from the town of Dennis that was with us um last Friday. two
members of the select board had also indicated that they had a desire to look at elements of the agreement. So, um I I guess it it sounds to me that we want to do a a letter to the school committee that requests that we establish a
working group to start looking at the agreement. >> And um so kind of the question is um to what extent that do we want to put um some of the items that have come up? I mean, I've been just
>> I have a list of like nine different items that >> I don't think we want to give them an agenda list. >> I mean, I assume that we, you know, we let them know our concerns and then they march >> and go forward and figure things out on
their own. At least with the government oversight committee, Mark, that you were mentioning, that was a whole thing about it seemed to me best practices. >> What I was suggesting is something different than putting together a list of issues. What I was suggesting is we get the three parties together to come
up with an agreement on a process. >> Yes. >> To review, consider, >> elaborate, and recommend adjustments to the agreement. >> Mhm. >> Rather than getting it bogged down now into the substantive because if you go if you go to the table with three or
four pet issues, um you your conversation may not go anywhere. Um, like I said, in the town of Yarmouth, we have a requirement that periodically we convene a government oversight committee. They have a process. They come back and report to us
recommendations on changes to the charter. A process like that to me would make a great deal of sense to create for the purposes of the regional agreement absent a set of issues. I don't want to scare people into thinking that there's some secret agenda and plot. I think
that would be counterproductive. I think let's see if we can come together and come up and maybe we could draw upon the support and of the of the superintendent's office to identify similar agreements that have actually come up with a process to revisit the agreement. We may find out that there
isn't no process. We may decide amongst ourselves that you know we should um create something new. But that's how I would approach this question. I think the letter should be to both the school committee and to the town of Dennis that that that's our desire to come up with the process of review.
>> I agree. >> Perfect. I get it. >> Okay. >> I think that makes sense. >> Good. >> Makes a lot of sense. >> All right. So, let's move on then. Everybody all set with that? >> We're good. >> We're good. >> 7:15. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. >> All right. Recreation field study
Samson. Thank you for your patience, sir. >> Come on up. How are you? >> Great. Thank you for having me. >> Thank you for coming. >> Just fine. >> So, this is um for our athletic field
analysis and capital plan. Um is there anybody joining you this evening? >> Uh join. >> Mr. Reynolds. Is it okay if I stand up once in a while
to point? >> Um, well, if you do microphone, >> take the whole thing. All right. >> Just so people at home can hear you. >> Okay. Very good. I'm a pointer sometimes. >> We're not real high-tech, so don't move fast. >> If there are any committee members who in the back who are shy, I would point
out that the more comfortable chairs are in the front row. Just saying. Should I wait for >> Nope. Go ahead. >> Oh, go ahead. Okay. All right. >> Sure. No. Good evening. Uh, my name is John Tonsky. I'm a landscape architect with Weston Samson. Um, we were hired by
the the town of Yarmouth to do an athletic fields analysis and capital plan. Um, so we were specifically just looking at athletic fields. So that is grass um fields, baseball, rectangular fields. So that could be soccer. Um, we're not looking at courts or anything.
So I just want to make that clear. Um so a little bit about uh the agenda tonight. I'm going to cover our timeline to date. Uh we'll go over our existing facilities. Um from there our preliminary concepts and then from our preliminary concepts we developed uh another iteration of concepts and then
we included an opinion of cost on those and then an action plan really just to outline uh the future uh timeline. So we started about this time last year January 2025 uh we began with uh some meetings and outreach. Um
>> I seem to have >> I'll detail all these a little bit more in detail. Uh we did inventory and assessment of your existing facilities. Um from there we developed um a demand analysis, a program assessment. Uh we did a communitywide standards assessment and then finally uh the project summary
capital plan which I gave you three copies of tonight. Uh there are some nice beautiful copies at the printer right now and you will get one of those shortly. Um so during that >> what field could measure up to this ark? >> It's beautiful. Uh so we met with the
recreation commission uh three point three times over that period from January to August. Uh and then we met with Steve uh and uh the town administrator assistant town administrator at the time um to give us update on progress.
So, we looked at uh five different facilities. Uh Sandy Pond Recreation Area, the Madakis property, Peter Homer Park, uh Flax Pond Recreation Area, and Simkins Field. So, this diagram uh kind of demonstrates what facilities are at each one, and I'm going to go in a
little bit more detail about each facility. Uh first, we looked at Sandy Pod. So, Sandy Pond currently has a uh just a softball field and a soccer field to the right there. This is a large parcel. Um and it does currently have uh parking
and other amenities on site as well. Next was uh the Peter Homer Park. Um so, this includes uh two softball fields, a multi-purpose, and a soccer field. Uh all in that configuration there. Also, as well, there's some parking and other
facilities on site. We also looked at uh Simkins Field. So, currently that's just being used as a multi-purpose uh space right now. And we did speak with uh the representatives from the Little League fields uh south west of this parcel as well. Um but
their fields were not part of our our study. And then Flax Pond. Um so Flax Pond, previously there was a softball field out there. Uh I believe at some point there was someone actually went out and figured out where the property line was and found out that that was not did not
belong completely to recreation. So uh at that point I believe there's some plans done for doing uh the pickleball facility was expanded out there. Um so there is a significant parking lot at this facility and then I know Steve runs a lot of camp programs out here at well
out here as well. Uh and then f uh this is the Madaki's property. Um so we were aware that there was a study going on uh at the same time, but we were asked to look at this uh parcel specifically for the athletic uh facilities that were there. So
there's an existing softball field, a baseball, and then the multi-purpose field uh in the middle of the old track there. So um a lot of numbers to look at. I'm going to try and summarize it the best I can. So we met as part of our stakeholder engagement. We met with
every single group uh in that left column there. So we went with uh YD soccer um AC Independence which is a private soccer organization uh in the area St. Pas and the Sturgees West East. Um and we also met with um the softball
groups which I'll talk about on the previous page. Generally what these numbers do this is our analysis. So we want to understand how many hours are on your fields currently. So we look at the amount amount of practices those uh each of those use each of those groups uses number of games and then we can figure
out how many hours are on each individual specific field uh in town. So that final column represents the total hours uh for each group on each field. So there are summaries of this that I'll get to to kind of give you an overall summary of what we found. Um and
then this is your diamond fields. Um, so we met with um, let's see, we met with uh, the senior softball league. Um, and they are the biggest users uh, of the softball facilities in town. Um, so this is our annual hours of use.
Um, so we broke this down to uh, the facility and then the actual field uh, in the middle column and then the total annual annual hours of use on each facility. So, the uh North Carolina State University uh has a program um and they've studied this extensively. To
have good field conditions uh on a regular turf field, you want to have or you want to be between the 400 and six-hour range of hours on that field on an annual basis. If you exceed that amount, you're going to have poor wear on the field. The grass is not going to grow as well. Things are going to wear
out. It's going to require more maintenance. So that's the the target number we're looking for whenever we're doing something like this. So as you can see based on the total hours uh for the most part we were in that range which is a good sign meaning you have um enough
facilities. Um Sandy Pond softball that was a large uh softball use. Um softball does not um let's see does not damage turf as much as like a football or soccer. So that is why those number of hours on that field are more acceptable
and they didn't raise any red flags uh to me. Uh and then we broke it down uh annual hours of use per sport. Um so again on the left column is all the different organizations and the sports they're playing. So we were mostly limited to
soccer and softball here. So, if you break that out, you end up with about almost 2,000 hours of uh field use for soccer and about 900 for um for uh softball. So, that accounts to meaning basically you would need four fields for
that 2,000 hours and ideally one field to rest, which the town of Yarmouth is actually currently doing. They're resting a field and rotating things around, which is recommended. Uh it's a good practice for um extending the life of your turf. And then we uh came up with the 900 hours for the softball. So
that's representing uh two softball fields uh there as being uh required or needed. Um so from there we started looking at some preliminary concepts and again these are all very preliminary. This is almost just like putting on some bubble
diagrams on on a map. Um the for Sandy Pond we looked at extending the outdoor I'm sorry the outfield to 300 feet. I believe it is 275 ft now. Um and as well as creating a second out uh outfield, second softball
field with a a larger outfield 325 ft. Um so this was this came up discussions when we met with the senior softball league. They have a desire for some of their groups um that um want a larger field to make it more competitive for their leagues. Um there's also and you
you're going to ask why we got rid of the rectangle field here. There's a desire uh among sports groups to have facilities in one place. So if the softball league if the softball ran a tournament, there'd be two fields there. People could be concentrated if they're going to have multiple games a day. They
don't need to be driving all around town uh for different facilities. So you'll see that as a commonality across a lot of our plants. We try to concentrate sports uh the best we can. >> Does lacrosse still use that field? Lacrosse used um Peter Homer field this
past season. >> Okay. >> It was just a oneweek. >> So this this field now as as a multi-purpose field's not really being used. >> Is that at um >> at uh Sandy Pond? >> Sandy Pond. Widy Sager typically uses
the majority of the hours at Sandy Pond. >> Uh Peter Homer Park. Um so there we projected um doing two sock soccer soccer fields which is mostly what's there. We were looking at potentially doing the arrangement a little bit differently uh on the field to the north. For soccer the ideal orientation
is north south for sun glare and and overall uh quality of play. Um so not much change in that initial concept. And then Sim kids field. Uh understanding this was uh this area is
mostly used for uh fairs and such. Uh we proposed doing two soccer fields out here uh and providing a large parking area. Um so that would be really creating a multi-use uh space here where you could have still have those events as well as have soccer or some other
events going on at the same or during the same season. and the Madakis property. Again, we understood that there was um through a study going on as well, but uh we wanted to look at it from a recreation standpoint. Uh through our meetings with the different stakeholders, there was a
lot of interest from some of the private groups to do a private public partnership. Um so we kind of formulated this concept around that. So it would not necessarily be all maintained by or run by uh Yarmouth Dennis. would be split or some arrangement would be made.
Uh whereas the soccer fields and the softball, baseball, little league fields could be uh shared. Um you are currently running uh indoor programs out of the gymnasium on site. So there is a a large desire there. Indoor pickle ball I know is is a huge thing right now. Um so
there is a desire to keep that element um there in the town. So we did propose doing a new community uh building with pickle ball and indoor basketball. Uh so we printed presented all these concepts to these preliminary concepts to the recreation commission and they
really gave us a lot of great feedback. I know one of them is here today. Um overall uh so we looked at it as your existing facilities you have about nine and a half total fields. uh those preliminary concepts I showed you, if we
took madakies off the table, um you would be about about the same amount of fields. And then with mataks, you'd end up with you really be doubling your ability uh field use field space by about you'd have 15 total uh fields if
you implemented all these concepts. Uh and then here's the the four together. Generally what we or what we heard from the recreation commission was um you know the Madakis property was uh being studied for other uses. So, uh, we
didn't really want to consider that into our future plans for, um, committing to facilities there as well as Simpkins. Um, knowing that there would be Town Green there at some point, sorry, Town Common potentially. Um, that was a
little bit, uh, not really, it wasn't really a good um, plan to move forward at this point for the town. And then Peter Homer is pretty much landlocked and maxed out the way it was. So there really isn't any way to uh increase use
uh or add fields at that facility. From there we uh further developed these concepts. Um so I guess I'll go back once. So basically the feeling from those that meeting was those three uh in the bottom and on the right are not
really great development opportunities. So we were asked to look at doing um increasing the use at Sandy Pond. Um so you're going to see that in our our next concepts. So this is very similar to the preliminary concepts. Uh we added a extended softball field, added a new
softball field, provided some new parking. Um there is a conflict between the field one and the play area. So we're going to increase the netting size there and reroute the driveway that serves the beach access um uh further to
the east. Um for this concept we estimated the cost to be about $3.6 million. Uh concept B. Um again this was going to um this would be extending the same uh outfield field extending field one as
well as creating a new field off to the left there and then uh providing space for four new fields uh to the right. This concept includes three new pill three new pavilions, a new basketball court, three new tennis pickle ball courts, a multi-use trail going around
the perimeter. Um, whenever we're designing parks, our goal is to make them multi-generational so that all users have a use out here. It's not just for uh one particular age group or demographic. Um, and then we would add additional parking out here with more fields. You need more parking. So, we're
adding about 250 parking spaces uh to the site. Uh Peter Homer Park. Uh again, there was we were pretty much landlocked. There wasn't really any room for expansion. Uh Peter Homer does have uh lighting right now for field lighting. Um so there was
a a suggestion in our recommendations to upgrade that to LED lighting at a cost of about a half million dollars, but there is a 55% energy savings there uh for the upgrade. We do see that happening in in a lot of facilities. Um we in this concept we were proposing
restriping the fields for a little bit larger of a field 330 by 210. So what that does is that allows you um four 9v9 fields. So 9 is nine players playing nine fields. Generally it's a smaller age group. Um so that will allow you to
run fields in the opposite direction. So wear patterns on the field are reduced. Um, and really seasonally you can rotate rotate that around really for the for the the best of the turf. >> And for Simpkins, we did uh similar size
fields out there for the multi-use rectangles. Um, same size, two large. So that's like a high school regulation size, two of those. And then you would have four fields uh within that for younger age groups. This concept we developed a little bit
further. Uh we added the multi-use trail um and then uh left some dedicated space for the town common, but again that could overlap and be a multi-use thing with with the fields as well. We didn't want to um exclude that use. Um and then also considering your proposed library
site uh is to the northeast of this property. Um so again that is is not here. Does the little league use that the small Sears field anymore >> on this? >> Little League does use both both of those fields >> on on this side. >> Oh no. So down at the bottom left there,
Little League uses >> You're talking about the site behind the fire station. >> Not on the CS field anymore. >> Just the two >> just the two smaller fields. >> Correct. uh in the madakis concept we developed this further and we put a a a large
number to it. Um so again this was ideally would be a private part private public partnership. Uh we proposed four synthetic turf fields, uh one out out I'm sorry, a 320 foot softball field, two little league fields, um 604 parking
spaces, uh a play area, a 65,000 foot community and recreation building, uh multi-use trail, uh and a park and a band shell area. Again, trying to make this a multi-generational park, uh and attract all users. Um and then new entrances and exits, uh to the facility
as well. Um, this would be came in in about $137 million. >> So, this proposes it to go in coaches path. Is that what I'm seeing here? >> Uh, yes. So, the entry drive would be
Yeah. directly across from that. So, that is a good traffic as far as sight lines and such, but yeah, that would be a a new entrance there. Uh this is the draft action plan that we presented to the recreation commission.
Um so we had uh three initial options in here. Simpkins which was going to provide uh no growth but it um uh it would give you uh one softball and five soccer fields. Option two was combining uh Simpkins and Sandy Pond option A uh
for about $7.5 million. Uh that is going to give you some softball growth. So you would end up with an additional softball field and you'd have four soccer fields at that point. And then Sandy P option B, that would be uh good growth, we're calling it. So that would be two
softball fields and six soccer fields at uh 18.1 million. And then Peter Homer. Uh again, we put that as kind of like a side because you're not going to increase your use there, but it would give you uh better soccer use by uh uh restriping, renovating the fields, and then updating the lighting for $2.9
million. So, from that discussion um from the group, we heard that they wanted to put put uh Sandy Pond option B at the forefront of their action plan moving forward. Um so that came in at 8.5 million. Um and then step two would be
the Peter Homer Park and then finally uh the Simkins facility. Uh in the report you have we I don't not going to detail them all but we gave a funding uh funding approach and opportunities. We spoke a lot about a public private partnership. Um there are
other funding alternatives out there um that could be implemented uh in town. in addition to some of the programs you have now. Uh this is the 10-year action plan that we put together. Um so it broke the Sandy Pond option B into eight different
phases over an 8-year period. Uh and then Peter Homer and Simpkins uh came in at year 9 and 10 uh in this plan. Um, and then we tabulated how you're going to gain uh diamond fields and uh rectangular fields as you progress uh
this master plan. Uh based on our conversations with maintenance staff and such, there's uh we're suggesting increasing the uh budget of plus or minus $150,000. Um so that's going to add new staff and really ramp up as you start making these
improvements to the field. Um it's going to improve your conditions. um and protect your capital improvements as you move forward. So, you don't want to build a whole new field and then not have the staff to uh support it. As well as this plan uh is going to
continue allowing the town to to rest fields, which is is is great. You don't see that in every community, so I applaud you for that. Um and then is uh hiring a new staff position of a program director to assist the the recreation department. And then finally, I leave you with uh
Sandy Pond concept B, which was ultimately the decision of the recreation commission uh to move forward with um as part of the study. >> May I ask a question on flax pond? >> Yes. >> So,
you're basically not recommending any changes to flax pond? Yeah, between the pickle ball use and the uh camp programs out there and based on the program that Steve uses out there, adding an athletic field is is not ideal. It's isolated. It
would only be one facility. Would rather get those grouped together in one park. >> Um Steve, my understanding was that you didn't have the playing field space you needed at Flax Pond for your camp program
for the older kids. Is that true? Not true. >> Um, no, I wouldn't say that's uh true. We we do utilize uh that outfield space. We utilize the small field behind the building and um our camp director has all of our program areas really mapped
out to a tea. Uh we're at our maximum, we hit our maximum um uh participation level at our camp last year. So, we really have a system down at all program areas that really works out well. um for the overall
camp experience. >> Okay. >> What is your maximum number for flax pond? >> Off the top of my head, I believe it's uh 1980 uh for the total summer uh 246 weekly.
>> Weekly 246. And have you seen any cut back in um the older kids? I mean it it seems like it was going more toward shall we say elementary middle school. >> Well surprising. So for our 26 uh season
we opened registration earlier this month and our um third third and fourth grade and seventh to eighth grade actually filled up within the first two hours. And it was surprising to us that our first and second grade
um age division um didn't fill up as quickly. So we actually moved spots from that to our third and third and fourth grade to fill up some of those weight listed participants. So surprisingly um it was a different trend than of years
past. So, we made the adjustment to increase the um numbers for our third and fourth grade group, which filled up, like I said, in the first one or two hours of registration opening. Um, and that's 72 spots per week, uh, for that
age group. So, now we're up to, I believe, 84 in that group. Maybe I could make a a just a brief comment to try to link this into our overall uh you know community planning effort that we have ongoing now and and how this works. I mean we all know based
on the discussions that we've had through the capital improvement program. We just had the hearing. We just did a lot of this information that obviously we don't have $18.1 million available today that we can invest in an immediate program to upgrade all of the fields to meet what our our future projected needs
are. But this particular study was extremely important in our overall recreation planning efforts. That the questions that we had going into it that we needed to feed into the whole capital effort is first of all to inventory all
of our existing fields, what type fields, where they are, to document the usage, to assess the condition of all of those facilities. um some some of them haven't been invested in in in quite some time and um to even more
importantly project what new needed fields that we have to meet the current demand for everyone that's using the fields and the future demand and um obviously in doing that we need to assign costs to those basically what are we looking at for the investment that
would be required to meet what the optimum needs of the town are and um even more importantly, where in the community can these fields fit? Are we overprogrammed at all of these facilities? Are there other areas? Um um you know, and I think it was, you know,
pointed out where we're not in a position to to run it and put two big fields on Simpkins, but you know, they fit. So, you know, there there's that. Now, I I think what is extremely important right now for us and we're going to have um I think quite a a
detailed discussion this evening on the results of the the Madak utilization and and I think it feeds directly into that study that now um we know exactly in our community just take Madakis out of the
mix. Where are we deficient on the fields? What types of fields do we need? what demand exists today. And the the second piece, what we're going to be looking at with Madakis is the potential development of a regional facility that
may do two things. serve as an economic driver for our community um to bring additional economic activity and tourism during the the shoulder season, but also how can that Madak
project be used to potentially meet some of the existing needs that we have in the community? How deficient are we? What are we trading off? What are we looking to gain? Um it it may not be that through a regional facility we can
meet all of our projected needs for just the local programs, but certainly some of the private groups may wind up renting space at a regional facility. Then that would take some of the pressure off of our existing facilities. But what is a critical piece in doing
the whole market analysis and putting together the feasibility of this is to know exactly what the town's needs are. um what type of revenue that we would need to generate in order if we were to meet these needs offsite and and it and
where would they go? It looks like Sandy Pond is set up um better than any of our other areas for expansion. Um we could meet a lot of those needs and create a nice facility there. But one of the things that we would need to do is figure out how the other facility
madakis may help leverage whether we need either existing fields that we can use at that site or revenue to generate the ex existing fields on another site. I mean in a perfect world um we wouldn't be forced to um have all of the town
recreational programming um you know sort of maybe compete with a regional facility at at Madakis. we would be able to leverage enough funds to have our own programs at our own sites. But having this data is going to be is going to be
critical as we move into the um next steps on the financial feasibility analysis for uh the Madakis project. So um overall um you know this was a I think an excellent study. uh we're not really as far off in terms of the number
of fields that we need um maybe as we thought when we entered into this process, but I will certainly say it's a lot more expensive to develop these new fields than I I think we imagined as as well. So um you know, I guess $18 million.1 million doesn't buy what it
did >> at one point anymore, but um it's it's very instructive. Um, but again, I I don't want to um, you know, scare people into thinking that, okay, we're going to run off and now look for $18 million on some type of a bond issue to do this
project, but what we need, we know what we're going to need for Fields. And I and I think that that helps us get all of our planning moved forward and we can move forward as a community, not just separate interests. and and that's what
I I think the value that this brings to our capital programming and the whole Madakis analysis and um everything that we're doing with recreation and it and it all fits together. So um I I think the study met all the expectations I had. >> Yeah.
>> Okay. >> Madam Chair. >> Yes. >> Question just in terms of process has there there been a public comment period on any of this Steve? Uh so at our recreation commission meetings uh there was an opportunity for
>> people to chime in. >> Um >> we did have people >> we did have a few representatives or I'm sorry a few public members of the public did come and express. No, I I think one of the things I'm sort of hinting at is that there may be some value in stamping
this as a draft plan and then doing some communications around it to invite public comments in a broader sense and give you a chance to um hear more from the community on it. I I think I think this document's terrific and I agree
with the uh a lot of the thinking of the uh the recreation commission and I'm glad to see the commission Steve, I see Steve Sazanski hiding in the back. And are there other members of the recreation commission that are here? >> I believe.
>> Okay. Can Can we just get your names? Can you >> Denise Galvin? >> Hi, Denise and Steve. Anybody else? Just want to make sure that your your your presence is acknowledged and we can thank you in person for all of your hard work on behalf of the town. Um
but I I think to me as I look at this there's almost another dimension to this that really needs to be looked at and that is is to figure out okay how do going through in more detail the cost of maintenance and upkeep and then how do we generate the revenues and the the
fees in order to sustain that. Um, this is a convers there this there's a larger conversation this board wants to have regarding all of our parks, all of our public spaces to make sure that we can better manage and properly care for all
of these facilities. So this is I see this is a subset of sort of a larger set of decisions that have to be made because we're just going not going to take I don't think we're going to address this in peace meal but we have to address it holistically because we want to make sure that we get all our
parks and public places well cared for well managed and uh we have at least the capacity uh to even manage the activity and so that's that's that's a work in progress but um I I think your approach
in terms of identifying Sandy Pond is terrific. Um, as Bob said that this has huge potential for growth. I love the idea of a softball field over there right by the pond. People can hit home runs into a sandy pond. >> Yeah. >> Hit the beer bottles.
>> So it can crack it'll hit the beer bottles that are lying at the bottom of the pond. Right. >> Um, >> there's a lot of history by the way. I just want to mention I don't know if you spent time out in that area. There's a lot of history in that section, that land area just southwest of Sandy Pond.
Um, years ago, the town of Yarmouth, people used to make money selling ice. And Sandy Pond was one of our major producers for ice in the town of Yarmouth. And there are areas along that
bank of Sandy Pond where you can see uh the footprints of the old ice houses that used to be there. And back in the back in the old days, I know I'm dating myself. Back in the horse and buggy days, um that ice the ice would be
carted off in carts and then eventually find its way into into Hyannis Harbor and then the ice would be packed and sold. And uh and so that that area, I I hate to say it, but that area where that ball field is happens to be in a very
very historic area for the town of Yarmouth. So just FYI, but I I I think this is on the right approach. We still have more work to do on this, but I think this is a great start. So thank you, >> Dorcas. >> I think it is a great start. Um I think
um I know you had some public comment. Um I guess this question would really go to um Steve Sanski. like the public meeting that we did in the recreation commission when we first discovered pickle ball and they came
forward. Um, did you have a a public meeting like that for the p for everyone, you know, like where you came to like the police station and uh opened it up. Can I can still remember learning about pickle ball. It was they were talking
about this sport that I'd never even heard of. Uh well what we did was we uh invited every sports um association and we had open public meetings at the
DPW office. So we had uh softball, we had pickle ball, well not pickle ball, but we had softball. Um, all the soccer people, football, everybody that used a field came and put their input in as to
what they thought we needed or what what they'd like to see. So, yes, we did have an open public meeting and we had them probably three of them at least. >> Okay. Because I haven't heard what Tracy
mentioned lacrosse, you know, like you I'm going by the high school. I'm seeing that sign there every day now about sign up for lacrosse. But you've got soccer, you've got um basketball, um softball. What about like lacrosse?
>> So I think I can speak to probably the lac lacrosse group more effectively. Um, so what Weston and Samson was looking at was just the previous year field usage as as it was one of our bigger usage years and we're projecting growth based
on last year and lacrosse hasn't rented fields from us um in that past year. Uh they did do a oneweek clinic this past summer. I believe it was sometime in August. uh but it was just such a short dur duration that they rented it wasn't
included in this study as they weren't renting from us in the past year or two and lacrosse I think uses the high school field also that's what they use and and this study didn't involve any of
the school fields >> so lacrosse you know as far as I know does play at the high school >> soccer used to play there but we don't play there anymore. >> Okay. Thank you.
>> Um I had a a sort of operation and maintenance question um that occurred to me when you were talking about how um soccer and football tear up the fields more. Um, would you say with the current uh use
that as a measure, how often would a soccer field in this town have to be regraded? >> Uh, speak to that. >> Well, I mean, every town's unique. Uh, I wouldn't say necessarily regraded. We've done it. Depends on >> I guess how much money you have to
spend. You could potentially rebuild that field completely. So that'd be removing the top soil, potentially adding under drains, adding sand layers, and then replacing your top soil, uh adding irrigation, incorporating sand in this into the soil mix. So there's there's a lot of scientific stuff to go
behind making the best field possible. Um but um yeah, generally it is like for this we base it kind of generally on those that 500 hour mark. Uh and you want to kind of stick to that because if you're going to go over a lot of that field is going to the use is going to it's going to turn to mud. basically
endure and you're not going to have that use. Um I think I got sidetracked there a little bit. Steve, would you >> Well, and I think with moving the goal melts, um that would be a huge opportunity to limit that deterioration of the field because really the goal
melts is >> like spread the use around a little. >> Yeah. So able to at the Peter Homer concept with being able to widen the field, you can have the 9v9 played in a different direction than 11 on v1. Uh so
the goal moves mounts would move uh from >> two locations based on season, right? So this traditionally the goals are here and here. So if you ran smaller fields here, you could have two sets of goals, a set here and a set here. So those gold mouths that would give this uh time to
repair in the off season while you wear out an area over here and then flip things around. So >> that would be the recommended approach to kind of in addition to rotating fields around uh giving them a rest as well. >> And a lot of use from YD Soccer would be
those younger age groups that would use the 9v9 fields as well. smaller. >> Yeah, >> I think the just to add to that, the uh maintenance division uh when they when they entered a resting period of a field, they were incorporating sand,
overseeding it, airrating the field, uh and then really just trying to get some new turf growth going and and then keeping people off of it, which is most important for a season, >> which is why it's good to have extras to Yeah, >> absolutely. Yep. Can we stop there with the keeping people off it?
>> Because didn't we have a really huge problem at Peter Homer with keeping soccer players off the field when it was supposed to be resting. >> Yeah. The I believe the recreation department um this was before this was a
couple years ago before my time. >> Anony's time. >> Yeah. invested in >> um in signs, field closure signs. Um he'd make multiple rounds um getting people off the field. Um but it's mostly the it's not the playground kids running
around on it. It's mostly the the groups that are in there with their cleats and not going through the right avenues of renting it um that really do the damage to the field. Um we weren't renting it at the time when we rest fields. Um so
it was about sending the staff out to really monitor the field and and keep people off it. Um I think we our last field that we rested was at Sandy Pond and uh we did a really good job with uh keeping the those groups that aren't
going through the right avenues off of it. Um and the resting process worked for it. Um, and I believe the rest resting process worked for Peter Homer in the grand scheme. Um, it just was a lot more work than we anticipated.
Um, in a department level, >> how do we go after those groups that are kind of side of definitely educating, bringing paperwork, and having them go through the right avenues. Um, I don't want to
really make it escalated to having to get the police involved, but uh, maybe that's another avenue that we have to go through is, um, if they're not not going to go through the right avenues, um, I guess we can brainstorm more ways on how
they will um, other than educating um, and giving them the resources that they need, providing the paperwork, letting them know about the insurance aspect of it. um and so forth. And >> that was one of your points with uh adding an additional coordinator would
allow you to someone to be out there in the field kind of meeting these groups, checking in on them and stuff. So, >> is it a problem for you now? These groups, >> it wasn't a problem for Sandy Pond. Um the last last season when we rested it
um I make my daily rounds and I hadn't seen like any groups out there the occasional golfer that was hitting golf balls and I'd have to tell them all right we can't be hitting the golf balls in the the field here that we have our golf courses for that.
So but I didn't believe it was was an issue this past year. >> Was it still a problem at Peter Homer? >> Um not necessarily. I mean there there's the occasional groups um on the weekends, but um we didn't see the damage from the groups, especially since
we weren't resting them. We were they were occupied a majority of the time from our users that actually went through the right avenues. Um I don't believe it was much of an issue. >> Wasn't much of it. Okay. Thank you. Sorry.
>> Yeah, Steve, you're doing a great job. I'm very happy that you're you're with us. And um I I like the Sandy Pond plan quite a bit and I was looking at an oversight map because we're about to talk about Madakis and what we might do
with uh Madakis and they're I I believe if my phone was telling me the truth, they're only about a mile and a third apart. So um walking paths and being able to consider them
as as close as they are, when we start looking at Madakis and thinking about what we're going to do with Madakis, it may be that that that they're close enough that um Sandy Pond is a supplement to whatever we're planning
for Madakis. So, yes, I I applaud Bob again. Yes, the study is absolutely perfect for the conversation we're about to have because it it's going to support that, I believe. >> Thank you. >> Yeah, and that was one of the things
I'll just add to that. Uh, one of the recreation commission uh suggested adding the multi-use trail connecting to the neighborhood which is kind of heading towards the Madakis propert. >> Absolutely. That was a great suggestion. >> Yeah, there's all sorts of paths back there that will would connect through the wellfield across and over. Um I
think it's hard to look at this without looking at all of it as Bob has pointed out because um you know whatever happens at Madakis if we can't get the public private partnership that we're looking for there I would imagine if we're not able to put
fields there that would kind of re have you guys reook at your plans in terms of priority. Um, you know, when I look at the the costs to this, um, you know, I' I'd love to get into the details, and I don't think
we're we're at that point right now. I mean, generally speaking, um, it's it's a preliminary concept, but, you know, where why you chose to put the turf fields, you know, at certain places and
regular fields, um, and what the discussion behind that was because, you know, I have serious issues with with turf in terms of safety, health and safety, and uh, up upkeep and maintenance, and we're not even able to
mow the parks that we have now. We don't keep it up. So, for me to be able to think about how we're going to fund that, I know the school committee just had a whole conversation about the user fees being um they're they're going to start to um you know, put money aside
from the user fees for the for the upkeep of of the tour field that they have. But without some type of concept like that, >> like for for me to even m wrap my mind around us doing it as a town would be very very difficult. >> Um, but I like all of your plans. Um,
you know, 18 million I think uh, you know, is a lot of money, but we've been fortunate and to have success there with um, you know, the playground and the splash pad and you know utilizing some CPA funds and maybe some grants. you
know, you can start to see that go together. When you're looking at it at one thing, when you look at all of it, it's, you know, with all the needs that we have as a town, it's almost overwhelming to even think about um I think about Mike Stone a lot when I look at these plans,
>> you know, and what he would say right now. >> Um, so I got to channel him for a little bit and sit with this. And, uh, I just want to say I really really appreciate all of your work and your your help with this. I mean, imagine a town that actually had all this,
>> what what that would mean for, >> you know, the quality of life. It would just it would be amazing. It's just it's always just so um hard because, you know, we got to balance our wants with our our needs and um
it's a tough one with all the needs that we have. So, I just I really truly appreciate it. I think that once we figure out Madakis, I think we're going to have to probably come back to to where we start with this. So,
I appreciate your time and uh recreation commission and all the work that's gone into it. So, I I say stay tuned. Right. >> Can I add ask one more question, Tracy? Um the uh Simpkins Field, I was just wondering if we that that's article 97.
Did we determine that? >> Yes. So, just FYI, maybe just for Steve for the future that we wouldn't Well, maybe we could get it to be recreational. All right. That's what I just wanted to get that affirmation. Thank you.
>> Thank you. >> Oh, thank you very much. And I applaud the town's effort. You are doing the right thing by planning these things all out. I mean, this is great. So, and I think a lot of towns would be happy to have something like this. So, nice job to you all. Thank you. >> Thank you.
>> Okay, we're a little behind. I apologize to everybody. Um geez, Trace, these things just take time. They're all important. So, they got we have to take the time with them. So, next we have our um Madakis utilization committee, our
conceptual design plan and next steps. If those folks could come forward, this would be wonderful. Yeah. >> Good evening. >> Evening Sharon. >> Hi. >> How are you? Nice to see you all.
>> Happy New Year. >> Yes. Same to you >> in a minute. >> You're chalk full today. >> Yes. I apologize for the tartiness of this. >> No, no, that's not a problem. It's the the mind. Is it the process of mush? Yeah. You know, >> muk muck. I mean mush.
>> Mush. Muk is saying mush. So um um first of all um you've all received the various memos that were put together and um I just wanted to make sure as a
habit um that I mention uh this particular video that we're going to be seeing didn't include our our committee members names. So, I just wanted to be able to make sure I mentioned all of the names uh of
our committee members. Andrew Leard is our vice chair. Lindseay uh Petro is our clerk and our capital committee representative. And John Anderson, who is here right behind us, is our finance
committee representative. Barbara Lavoyne and uh Casey Schmidt could not be with us as well as uh Lindsay uh Petro and Andrew and all of it but some of its um conflict of schedules. So um
and then Joe Potska is here. He refereed two basketball games today. And uh Roby White House is our DPW representative. And I don't believe she's here today. I didn't see her. >> So,
um, we're back again, uh, to continue to seek information from you. And on February 25th, we also hope to go to, um, uh, the public again to also seek their input again. Um, because this
isn't the final. Um, this is our work to get to the final. And uh so um tonight's meeting will include all of that's listed, our updates, our summary of key findings, additional benchmarking,
conceptual site plans, and our next steps. And Heather, who is the director of planning of BSC Group, will be doing the presentation of the plans. And I guess what I would want to probably say is
um that they've done a lot of work and we appreciate that and they're still going to do some more work because we're probably going to hear some other things about these different plans and and our goal is eventually to present finally to
you um our position as the committee that's kind of paid attention to all of this stuff. And uh so the plans tonight they're eventually our final plans would be reduced to three. Tonight we've included
uh um so that it's really three plans but with variations of one of them that which is the amendment uh the uh uh alternative C plan. So, um I think we'll just get started. And I wanted to talk
first of all about um the overall um uh plan that talks about what I've been talking about with the committee and and the committee has responded because we understand our job is to
talk a little bit about the importance of this lot. And so um highest and best use is often um talked about in terms of uh what's best for land. And the former Madaki
site is a significant mis municipal um asset. And normally I would just in terms of real estate, highest and best use is the the uh term that's used. And according to an
appraisal institute, the highest and best use of a property is defined as the reasonably um probable and legal use of vacant land or an improved property that is physically possible, appropriately
supported and financially feasible and that results in the highest value. Um rather than do all that, uh in terms of there are basically four types of um sections that people look when they
determine what is the highest and best use, whether it's legally permissible, which uses cases that are permit permissible by law, zoning, and other land use. This isn't written here. um physically possible. Constructing
buildings on the site side of a mountain or in a swamp probably aren't possible. Um financially feasible. Does the use uh case of the property suit the the demographics in the market of the well and mut and maximally productive? All of
those you know um I've reduced to this land is gold. And when I say that, I am talking about what I've heard from the administrator and various people about all the
competing needs that you have to decide how to finance. And there are no um there are no uh uh ways I've been told that MUK is going
to get anything paid for by the town in terms of debts or loans. there just isn't the money. And the reason being is that we have a huge uh septic um uh problem in terms of trying to get uh all
the wastewater taken care of. That's a huge issue for monies for the town. The uh needing a new school or a renovation or an addition onto station a that creates others. And so all of that is
really um proving to be uh something that shows that we need a in order for a muck to get anything done, you're going to need a private public relationship. And that's really what is needed. And if
there is um one thing about this land, it's perfect for a private public relationship. The reason I say that is because it's near uh exit 7
>> which is very appealing to uh private developers. You are not that far from exit 7 probably less than I think I googled an address or two and it's less than two miles
and which is a direct access. Further it is uh there are only certain amount of access points off of Higgins Croll to the property. So there is no need for going through uh a neighborhood. So the
other thing as you're traveling north to south on Higgins crawl, there's a great deal of um businesses and water department land etc. So you really don't have a a a
great number of residential um areas that you have to be concerned about. You certainly do have to be concerned about the neighbors that are around uh the 70 acre lot, but all of
that just shows how important and you own the land. When you own the land, it's different from private ownership in terms of how you develop, why you develop, and what you develop. So I say
the land is gold. It's gold to a private developer relationship. The question is, how do you put it together? And that's why we're here again for you. And I'm going to turn it over to Heather. Um,
we've I I do want to mention that we have uh seen reuse options. We brought that to you back in November. And uh part of that was using um uh the Atlas. Um I don't mean Atlas. Do I mean Atlas?
No, I don't mean analyst. >> I mean the catalyst architects >> um uh comparison study that they did which showed uh the per square cost. So we've we've seen as a committee and we
have grown as a committee as we go along and see different um studies, different information that we get. And so we are a fluid kind of committee that's learning from you and learning from others. And
so that helped us get over the hump for actually um using this property um to be careful about using this property very much and that if you don't and it
can also be recognized to be used in a phased uh process and that's important too. So, um, our key concepts is is, uh, we're seeking the board and the public's
feedback, and I'm going to turn it over to, uh, Heather at the moment. >> Thanks, Sharon. Um, so, just before we present the concepts, we wanted to backtrack a little bit and do a little bit more analysis. We had already gone to the
community, we've come before you before, and we've gotten feedback. Um and we wanted to really have an informed look at the design development for particularly the sports facility. Um so what we did was additional sports
complex benchmarking. We looked at different facilities throughout New England um and compared what amenities they offered both indoor and outdoor, what types of sports, um how were the buildings oriented, what was the approximate size of the buildings, what
was the cost if we could find that. Um and overall we were able to see that you know regional sports facilities vary widely in size. uh most are large-scale multi-field multiport complexes. Uh construction costs varied based on the
complexity of the amenities and the facility size and the types of sports. Um they require a broad user base and they also need yearround programming um for that revenue diversity to really
make something work. and they're always privately developed. Um, but they do require municipal partnership, particularly if the community is the the one selling the land. Um, and there were instances we found where, you know, a
city or a town was the the the seller to the private developer for that to happen. Um, what we have found is that some of these facilities start small. they have one phase of a building wing um a couple of
playing fields outside and they tend to expand over time. So they add another wing to their building or they add more playing fields after the fact. Um and the other thing was that location does matter as Sharon said. So most of the complexes are in an accessible area.
Um, so the findings really are that successful facilities serve a regional market, not just a town, and that there's a strong and growing demand for indoor turf and multiport complexes in New England. So looking at the design development
during the design development, we looked at several different points. Um looking at how the site is developed and it can have meaningful long long-term financial implications for the town. Um the integration of sustainability and resilience into the site design is
important and the muck committee discussed this at length in terms of how they could help promote that for any kind of future development. um that there are multiple pathways for for providing housing at a range of densities. And in terms of the design
development, there were uses that were identified as desired there at the site. and we worked with the committee to really come to some kind of a acknowledgment that the site
will benefit the most if it's not only used just for a sports complex but there is something else that can happen there as well. Um, you have the balance between the the need for more housing in the community and you have the desire for the the Cape not having any kind of
regional sports complex really to serve that user base. Um, so we were trying to be very mindful of the the balance there in terms of what's being presented and what would be reasonable and feasible and achievable.
um looking at uh multi-use fields just for maximum flexibility and competitive standards. What you'll see is that we designed these fields to be the largest in size. Um sometimes even larger than what a professional soccer field dimension would be just to show that
there is a lot of room there and there's enough of space there to make multiple fields work. And that really what we're presenting to you is a menu. It's a it's a menu of items. um different elements that can be rearranged and reorganized
in a variety of different ways um and also a variety of phases. So we've taken this process through a couple of different iterations and trying to illustrate different ways that the site could be developed based on the
different priorities. Um, you know, we started with just scenario planning on a piece of paper and then we moved to the bubble diagrams and then we moved to full site plans. So, we're just going to jump right into the different concepts. Um, alternative
A is a sports facility and residential. The access and circulation, we have two access roads. one where a a access way already exists on the site and that leads into the residential part of of
the site that we've designed here. And the second access point which would really kind of be the main access point in terms of traffic would be from Higgins Croll Road across from Co Kisa Path. Um
the overflow parking we have on the side near the residential. There was a an acknowledgement by the police department that when they have large events at the police department, there's often parking overflow. So trying to be mindful of that feedback. We programmed
a a small parking area just in the off chance that that does need to happen. There is space that allows for that as you drive into the residential developments. Um, looking at the residential, there are two six lot single family home
subdivisions. And there's a 60-unit apartment development that includes an additional six town houses along with a playground, community building, and about 125 parking spaces. Moving to the left side of the site, we have
programmed 120,000 square foot sports facility um with approximately 385 parking spaces. We have four playing fields um multi-use to support soccer, lacrosse, flag
football, field hockey. Um the largest playing fields are soccer dimensions and that is what we used but the fields can be striped differently based on the sport. Um we were mindful of including some kind of bus parking in circulation
with our design. So, we've provided for that. And there's an opportunity here to create an emergency access path between the two different developments just to allow for easier access if that was needed.
We've created a 175 ft buffer from Chickity Lane and also from Higgins Croll Road where the playing fields are cited just to be mindful of the neighborhood and the immediate impacts right up against the street.
And we've also incorporated a trail around the playing fields from the parking lots to make it easier for pedestrian um accessibility. In this particular concept, we have the sports facility with the playing fields and we've accommodated 78 residential
units. For alternative B, this is the as part of the arrangement, we agreed to allocate um space for the school um not knowing the outcome of the future of the school. So this is the concept that does
that. The access and circulation are similar in terms of the the points that we've identified as the access points into and out of the site. We've created a roundabout as kind of the main entryway into this particular uh concept
with the school that that box that you see labeled as school is it's an 8.3 acre box. So it's around the current site as it exists right now. Um so in acknowledging that that could be the school site that we left that blank with
this particular concept we've added six single family homes on Chickity Lane uh across from the existing residential that's on that street. Um and those are 20,000 square foot lots currently as as
designed. Um the zoning right now requires 40,000 square ft per lot. So that will be something to consider in the future. However, we felt that the 20,000 ft was um a a good size to program there and would allow for the
six buildings to the six houses to be constructed. >> Isn't there an allowance for a smaller lot for affordability? >> What's the number of that? >> 10,000. >> Okay. In terms of the um other residential
program on the site, you see the um apartment complex here. This one has three buildings with 20 units each. Um so looking at a twotory um three buildings with two stories each on them.
Uh with the six town homes, a community building, and a playground there as well. On the sports facility side, 120,000 square foot building which is carried through each of our concepts along with four playing fields. The
important thing to note here is we've maintained the buffer um between the closest playing field to Higgins Coral Road. We've incorporated parking around each of the different fields, but also just to acknowledge that the layout of
these fields um one of them does encroach upon a constraint area that we identified which is a nonregulatory environmental constraint. Um but what we would recommend would be that the area
where the Madakis school buildings are currently which are also in that area would become more naturalized as kind of a replacement for any impact to that area from the construction of a playing field there doesn't want to work.
>> Yeah. >> Okay. There there we go. Um, so this is alternative C and with this particular concept, this is where we have the sports facility with its four playing fields and 120,000 foot building. But
this is where there is the most dense, the highest density in terms of residential with 108 units between several different um residential designs. So, we have the six single family homes on Chickity Lane, but we've
also added four on Higgins Coral Road to create a buffer um off of the street. Right be behind that, we've shown a townhouse development that contains 32 units, so six uh eight buildings with
four units each. And then we've shown the apartment design in the back of the site. The sports facility side stays the same as the prior concept in terms of the four playing fields with the parking and
circulation. Um the we've shown bus parking up off the back to help you know with the the drop offs and pickups at the actual facility if needed. Um, and you know, as I mentioned before, there's
different ways to design the housing. Um, this just gives ideas in terms of size, what space would be needed for what type of development and how many units you could get out of that. Alternative C2,
um, the question was, could could an additional playing field be added? Um, and if it an additional playing field could be added, does it have to be for say soccer or could it be for baseball or softball? And what we've shown here
is you could maintain a a moderate density development in terms of residential, but you could also add a fifth either soccer field or even fit a baseball and softball field up in the rear of the site in the back there. Um,
and it could have its own dedicated parking at that area as well. Keeps it a little bit separate than the other playing fields, but it does show that it could fit there. Um, the apartment complex was kept there. We eliminated
the town homes, but those could be swapped. In terms of the size, they're pretty similar. Um, but we felt that in terms of showing a a more a moderate density approach that that made sense. and then looking at alternative C3. Um,
this this one had a little bit of debate at the muck committee in terms of presenting it, but we wanted to be mindful that there are still some unknowns related to the solar field agreement um as an accessory use to the Emmy small school and not knowing the
future of the Emmy small school. if um a sports facility could move forward in a a first phase of the project. Um and then there could be residential that follows and the residential could be built in a
way that creates additional space for a future phase once the solar field is dismantled and um decommissioned. So we just wanted to be be mindful in terms of there are a lot of unknowns still as we
move forward and we wanted to show that it could be it could be built around it if it was desired. So in terms of our next steps um the muck committee reviewed these conceptual site plans and made the recommendation that they were in agreement to move forward with presenting them to the
select board. Um, we are here today to to get the select board's feedback. We have a muck committee meeting on February 12th to talk about the the presentation here in the select board's
uh opinions and to prepare for a community meeting that will happen where we present these concepts as a more finalized um draft moving forward on February 25th.
And then in March and April, the the report's going to be finalized. The plans are going to be finalized and there will be a final presentation. I'm not sure when you want to address the mass development.
>> Okay. All right. And so in May looking at kicking off the next phase of the project with the mass development site readiness assessment which Amy will talk about after this. >> Okay, great. That's a lot of really good
information. Um Liz, do you have want to start? >> I do. Um, and I'm I'm was happy to see alternative C3
because I am um I I'm I'm of the opinion that the solar installation hasn't been properly valued yet. It it right now is is bringing in um over $175,000
a year and it's just sitting there just doing that for us. And with an upgrade that the kind of upgrades that many of the um towns are going to do with these older solar systems, it could be as much as um $468,000
a year. So I I worry about um assuming that it should it's going to be dismantled and and and taken taken down. So that's my my concern. And I would also worry about that in light of so much of what we're trying to do. We're
about to after this presentation, we're going to hear about the hazard mitigation plan. So much of it is about um renewable energy integration and long-term climate impacts. And I feel like we're undervaluing something that um we kind
of like going to tear that down and start building it somewhere else, but we don't have anywhere else. So I I want to to go back to making us aware it's not just that we're in a contract that goes for another five
years or so. It's also that it is very valuable and with a reconfiguration with the stronger, more efficient solar panels, it's extraordinarily valuable. So um that's that's that. And I the other thing I worry about a little bit
about with the recreation center um I was looking at the comparisons that you did um which was great and there there is one in that looks to be very substantial and I worry about that that that's not so far from Cape Cod and it's
on the route to Cape Cod. So I worry about um the um analysis that should be done in terms of >> if we put in a recreation center, will they make the trip all the way across the bridge or will they just stop in way? So th those are my um concerns.
But then again, I just have to commend you so so strongly, Sharon and team. It's an amazing job. And the fact that it's boiled down at all is um very impressive because that's where we were like, "Oh my god." Um but I also would
have to wonder too about the school and there's only one of the plans that has the school protected the property for possible school protected. And I was thinking maybe that what what should be done is a alternate B1. Alternate B is
the one that does have the school um the land necessary. Should there be a B1 that when the school is um determined we don't need to reserve that property for the school, there's something that can go right there that
adds to the MUK plan. So it would be again talking about the phases that would be so um but I do I will always be a very I'm going to make a very strong plea that we
uh better understand the value in our solar system and the fact that it is can be refurbished and be even even more uh of an economic boon. Can that solar field be moved to an over top a parking
lot in the same? >> It wouldn't make sense because part a lot of what the investment was was in the civil work putting in the infrastructure to run the power the inverters the concrete pads. So um and
the modules are a minor part frankly to the solar installation. You and you wouldn't want to recycle those solar panels. to 320 watts each. Whereas right now the nor normal solar panel is about 520 to 560
watts. So you'd want that on your solar canopy. So there's nothing that you could recycle and put somewhere else of of that solar system. But what you can do is take out the modules and put stronger modules on and have a ground
mount that would be um able to power the recreation center and turn the recreation center into an off-grid safe harbor. We're talking about the hazard mitigation plan and one of the the the
south side of Yarmouth uh is really g is really in the is really being indicated as prone to flooding and possible sea level rise in in inundation and so we don't have anywhere really to go should
we have a hurricane. I mean you know the pictures that you see of everybody huddled in a gymnasium somewhere. um with the and and you need it to be self- sustaining because the grid does not is no longer working and so you can't get power from the grid and how do we take
care of these people and I was hoping that we could see our recreation center as also being a safe harbor for those events and part of what you need then is a solar installation to provide the power. So I I would make a bid that we
consider that as we go forward. Thank you. I hesitate to interrupt while you're going. So, I'm not going to say anything now. I'm just going to let you all keep talking. But, I would probably respond that certainly the committee is
focused on maintaining solar and certainly that would be an interest on the uh the um the building. Uh what's interesting about these alternative was to keep the solar field there because
the school actually is going to be there until we know what's going to happen to it. So everything that you see there wouldn't be disturbed per se because >> what are you talking about? any of the alternatives. I think well you know you
can see um the C3 the one you mentioned so that solar field is on the ground and so we're thinking that it would be appropriate for any new building to have the solar on the building top because
the land is so important >> and therefore then the solar field per se would follow the school if it's no longer longer there or put on the new school, >> right? >> It's there.
>> And I would just argue that it's an in it's an investment that the town has already made >> and it's paid for itself and it's now just bu spitting out dollars for you. >> And now that you know you have more field space potentially at Sandy Pond,
right? >> I think that's going to be an important consideration as we look at muck and knowing it's only about a mile away. Can we maintain that? solar field and and let it do its job which is to power a recreation facility or whatever.
>> Well, I think as it as it's on alternate C3, it is being remaining there. >> Yeah. >> For as long as we don't know where the school is or isn't there. So, >> thank you. >> Yeah, >> um I support the idea of an independent
micro grid for that area. That sounds like that would be wonderful. you've got the the older solar that's there, but just think with uh Tracy's idea of solar canopies if we could ever get private interests if it's a sports facility um
advertising I know but you know um that that could be amazing because then that would be huge production um and that would also uh give a certain pizzazz I think to uh to the town's image as people came to play sports. I I just
have the feeling, Liz, that people would rather stay at a motel in in Yarmmouth than Weimoth, but I could be wrong. >> Yeah, you might be. That's what needs to be checked. >> Yeah, >> thank you. There's an awful lot of work that's gone into this so far. Really
appreciate it. Uh this school becomes a big question mark for us. U it really does. And uh it's interesting to have one concept that still keeps the school there. So you can
see how much of the site then really is kind of you know when you first hear it of the 70 what is it 70 acres they only need like nine acres. It doesn't sound like much but when you see it here in
conceptually it uh it makes a difference. It really makes a difference. Um I can see that you've really narrowed it down then to housing and the sports complex your options. That's
>> well yes and also recognizing I think our committee is fluid so we get information and one of them is also I think that it's okay if you don't
develop an area until you find the right piece. So, we know you already have said that out loud >> that if something came to you, you know, three years from now that was just, oh my gosh, and the school hasn't gone
anywhere or, you know, or maybe it has and you're going to take that option because it strikes you. So besides the less than two acres from exit 7, you're less than three acres from the Cape God Hospital.
Who knows, >> right? >> You know what? And that's life. You know, you can't say definitively that you're going to know everything today. But so that's all you know. So there is that other texture to uh a discussion
that's going on with the committee. We are not agreeing on everything. Uh we're still in the process of trying to figure it out ourselves. So, it's a puzzle. >> Well, thank you. That's all I have. Mark,
>> um Thank you. And uh thanks for coming before us again tonight. Did you say that you're trying to whittle this down to three? >> Yes. >> Correct. >> And you have five. >> Yeah, that's what we're looking at tonight. >> The two variations to the third one. Yeah,
>> that's trying to give you options, >> right, >> to mix and match as we talked about in November. >> Is it correct to assume that the sports complex has sort of a a main priority to sort out? >> I think so. in terms of our committee
and everybody is looking at our survey, talking to the people from the public, >> but also listening to our land use teams >> and even housing recognizes there are other needs besides housing that
>> No, I understand. I'm just I'm just curious if the sports complex I mean it's sometimes developers on a site will identify the most approp the most lucrative let's say development
opportunity and then build the site around what makes that what can help make that work and support that. So, if we're looking at the sports complex, I just want to understand in the sports complex itself, is it designed to also
coexist with town recreational needs? Would community groups from Yarmouth be able to access it? Who's going to use this sports complex? >> I think both parties. That that's what our understanding is of our survey and talking with public. You know, they use
different terms, community center, >> but in the community center, they want places to go in the winter for kids and to do things and >> that's part and parcel. So, we've kind of meshed those together in terms of providing that.
>> Do you envision the gym still staying or is that going to disappeared? >> No, we we've come >> the conclusion that the gym goes. >> Everything goes. >> Really? Even the old theater goes. Huh. >> Yeah. Wow. It's gonna make >> I know >> one select board member pretty upset.
>> That's what I would say is our immediate finally traveling this whole thing. >> Um we've gotten to that point where we think all of the building parts of Madakis >> need to be torn down.
>> Okay. And just to to add related to the the public benefits of the private sports facility, it is really um it can be negotiated in the land disposition agreement that when this town decides to sell the land um that can be
incorporated as >> how and when >> community days and when and how much availability needs to be made to town um sports programs, you know, that all is is something that's on the table for that negotiation. >> Yeah. Thank you. Now, have committee
members had a chance to get out to look at some of these sports complexes at all. >> Well, a a number of them travel themselves to them. Um their children. Yes. So, Lindsay, if if Lindsay were here, she would know. Oh, I've been
there. I've been there. Joe is a referee and referees everywhere. >> Yeah. So, what do you say, Joe? Do you have a favorite sports complex off Cape that you think would be ideal to look at? >> Huh? >> Very nice. >> The Waymouth one is very >> It's very nice. >> Um, one of the one of the things that
I'm a little bit reluctant to embrace any one of the scenarios because my approach to this would be to focus the feasibility study and the analysis on the on what we could get for a sports facility. Right. Well,
>> that's been taken into consideration, I think, by uh >> that would be that would be my focal point because from that we can learn we can learn from that process about what's compatible and what might work best. Um, you know,
knowing from a developer or from our from the study essentially what kind of sports complex works. Maybe there are aspects of the site that are ideal that we don't see. It's almost like I'd be very nervous about settling on a plan or
or sort of a concept plan and embrace one without having gone through that kind of analysis first. >> Well, uh we listened to your opinion at our last the November of which was the same. You haven't moved from that. And
uh but we've also listened to Tracy who said you still need parameters to be um in terms of our contracts um having a wonderful uh group here that has done some wonderful thought process and working together. the the budget part of
our budget, my understanding is has gone to um securing another grant which is going to allow the administration to uh which they're going to talk about. I believe Amy is um the ability to do
what you're looking for. So that becomes what is referred to as phase six and seven. >> We stop at five. So once we step aside with our final recommendation to you for what we know now and things are still fluid
as I mentioned you can do something different three years from now if something in it in its built-in phases. So all we want you to know it's very important land uh in terms of private public um and maybe changes for your own
financial um abilities to do something separately will occur three years from now. I have no idea. I'm being optimistic about that. >> But um yeah, so it's fluid. We're listening to both of you. We want to provide you with something at the end of
five. that people can start comparing and finding out what studies we can give to find out what's going to be used. Um, so I mean I can give you more examples of things, but I don't think it's appropriate at this hour.
>> I so admire the work that you've done though. I was thinking with what Mark was saying about, you know, u the work and you're keeping options open. Um, it reminds me of high school chemistry where you managed to get things in that stay long-term suspended in a liquid.
And I really appreciate that with all the work you've done, none of you kind of went for a quick solution because you got very tired. I mean, you just you just venture on and I so admire that. >> Well, I also congratulate the committee because I've seen growth in that area
myself. Um, so I I think the members are realizing that we aren't there yet. We still want to listen and then have impact and and then we'll decide and we may not agree on everything. >> I'm glad I'm glad I'm hearing that I'm
consistent. >> Mustly. >> Would you want me to write it down? >> No. No. because I think um I really do I think it would be a mistake to go much further in laying out a concept plan or three in
the community picks one without getting a better handle on the feasibility of this complex because we may find some things that you know what may very well have a change in terms of how the rest of it all works. Right.
>> And um and and and I do think that um as is mentioned before by by several speakers that the renewable energy piece is incredibly important. Um if there's a way if there's some way that we can
figure out how we could manage keeping the solar or relocating it or doing something with it but but to abandon it >> um that we have to sort that out. That may not be your responsibility, your problem, but it still needs to be an
important part of how we proceed. And the idea of a of a micro grid can work or some other more solar canopy use can be developed. I think those are all very interesting, but they're all sort of add-ons. We really need to figure out
the core component of this project. And I think that uh as as I've said before is that I'd be reluctant to sort of settle on a concept plan to put in front of the people without knowing whether or not the sports complex even works at that site and under what dimensions or
conditions. >> Thank you. I think what we're what we're trying to get an opinion on is in terms of the three concepts that we've presented with the vid, you know, the
iterations of a couple of them is what the community would like to see in terms of housing density. What is too much housing on that site? What is not enough? Um, in terms of the size of the sports
facility, I mean, the building doesn't have to be 120,000 ft² either. Um, we showed a larger size building to show it could fit there, but it could very well be an 80,000 foot building if that's what the demand says it is. A couple of the examples that we found in our
benchmarking were 80,000 square foot building sizes. So, um, in terms of the the feedback we're looking to get, it's more of a acknowledgement. Yes, there's flexibility. Yes, there's options. Um,
is there anything you see that you would definitely say, you know what, I don't really like the fifth playing fields that might be a little bit much. Maybe I don't want to see that there. Um, so that that's the discussion that we're looking for from you. >> Okay. Well, then I'll then I'll answer that question. Um, I I think if you're
looking for density and getting feedback from the community, I think you can put all of these in front of them. All right? >> I don't have an objection to, but I don't want anybody to think for a minute that I or this board endorses those concepts.
>> I because I don't think we're prepared to have that conversation yet. But if these are proposals that you're looking for some community input on the five of them, I think it's a good idea. I think you're going to find a lot of resistance to the density on the housing. So, I think that's going to be the biggest
challenge is is to getting a sense of the community's appetite on the housing piece of this. I think the more housing you put in by looking at chickity and some of the other areas that have been it's like the the site has been pretty well built out, um I think you're going
to see some very um very interesting commentary from the public. Let's just leave it at that. >> We already have. >> I'm sure. There you go. So, >> well, I can tell you I'm a strong alternate B um for the for the specific
reason of we have to set a piece aside for the school at this point in time. I don't know how we go forward without knowing that and that's the only op option that that does that. So, um, you know, when you talk about being fluid and and peacemailing it, the way I look
at that is, you know, it's perfect, honestly, because, um, you know, we can use it for the school or we can add something else that comes up, um, in the future. So, to me, that's
a a perfect option. you know, I have a lot of questions um that aren't answered in terms of the solar because we don't know where we're at for the value left. Um so, you know, whether or not moving it or or
keeping it is valuable, we don't know that. We don't have that answer yet. So, that would that would be important. I don't think we should um you know make a decision based on that. But in B, you could probably move things
a little bit, keep it, and keep the school. Um, >> that was my thinking too. >> And potentially, we don't do the individual homes on on Chickity Lane and we leave the that whole left section available. You're still getting 60 units,
right? And then >> on the right side, is that >> on the left there, you're getting 60 units, right, in those buildings. And then >> or maybe even a few more than that. And then, you know, when you come off that Rotary where the school is, if we don't use a school there, maybe we think about
a an a more housing or we think about something else that the community needs at that point in time. Um, I have questions that, you know, in terms of uh, you know, we're not there yet for for funding, but,
you know, it seems like the majority of it is on the left side. I'm not sure which way the sewer would come in and the expense of where we place these buildings as opposed to, you know, so maybe we're we're looking at it wrong. Maybe I don't know. I mean, we have to
we haven't gone down that road, but um whether it's however it's mapped out because B has the only piece that has the school set aside. I'm I think we have to do that at least for now. >> I don't think we have a choice. The rest
of it, I think, can all be worked out. I um you know it it's interesting because I think about when um Bridgewwater first came here they had the analysis about how many of our teachers how many of our um you know what
zip codes people went to Bridgewater for um >> evening class >> teacher certificate >> and they knew it was a high population from the Cape. I wonder if um you know that facility in Weimoth has that type of information of how many of the people
you know you're talking about driving past it, but how many of the people from here are going there? >> Yeah. >> You know, we've had we've had other sports complexes that um have done their research and were potentially going to come here. I'm not sure if it was the
finances that >> deterred them, but I don't believe that it was the need. You know, I I I think that we've we've seen that the needs here and if you look at what happens in Weimouth, a lot of those people are coming from the Cape. So, I'm not sure it's coming, you know, the other way. Um
>> well, they come to our St. Patrick's Day parade, so it seems only fair that we train. >> Yeah. Um >> Hi, Dorcas. Well, um there's a there's a whole lot of just questions that I don't think that we're
at that point yet. I mean, I could keep going with my thoughts, but I just don't think that there's a lot of um >> Madam Chair, I would agree with you. I don't think we're at a lot. I mean, again, I I I don't want to beat a dead horse here, but I honestly think we as a board would be more helpful to you
having a better handle in terms of that aspect of the project, how it works, how it fits, whether or not a complex at 80,000 square feet makes a lot of sense, or does it have to be 120,000? Because that's that's the that's the elephant in the room. And I think once that's
figured out, then all of these other points and priorities become a lot easier to sort of conceptualize with a in a variety of ways. >> I think it'll be a lot clearer when you hear about the next steps and how to determine that because it's it's specifically designed to make those
decisions, >> right? >> Okay. Well, again, I don't I don't know. I mean, you're you're asking me to comment on this, >> right? I think that's what you're getting the next phase. >> I guess I I just wanted to ask you one question. >> I have questions. I just I just want to say I think that if we had information
about other models that had the public private partnership with with um you know I know that it's all in the agreement but I mean it seems to me like we're wanting to to have somebody else pay for it but us to still control it. I'm not sure how that's going to work.
You know when we talk about having it be um an upland you know kind of like an emergency place. How do you do that with something that we don't own or control? Um, you know, I'm not sure how much money they're going to invest with the
percentage that we're looking for. So, have we done an analysis amongst ourselves with this hundreds,000 square foot building of how and and the fields what percentage that it is that we need and if that is even um something that's
feasible to say that we want somebody else to to build and us and them to operate and us use at that percentage. So, um >> a lot of questions. >> There's a lot of questions. Yeah. And um >> and you were also referring and you were
also referring to grants in terms of ability to do the wastewater when you talked about um >> housing and is that >> who we're referring to. >> Well, not just the grants but just the
cost and where it is positioned on the thing. And if our if in our in our minds we're selling the land for the housing to offset. So, you know, density is going to come into play when we talk about what kind of funding we need to build the facility
and how much we're going to have to put into it. So, um I'm excited to listen to what Amy has to say. >> Thank you very much. >> The biggest decisions ever for the town. >> No pressure. No. Well, I think so. >> Thank you, Sharon. Don't go too far.
>> Thank you. >> I'm not sure if we even answered your question, though. Um, >> did we give an I don't I'm not sure we gave enough direction. >> You were looking for some blessing in terms of what to present before the public for public discussion. >> From my perspective, just mine alone,
all of these are fair game for public discussion. As long as it there is the understanding, we haven't endorsed any of the plans. These are concepts that are understudy for public comment. So I think go with your five that you've got. I think that will work.
>> But they were looking for some help to narrow it down. >> So we'll be here all night if we try to narrow it five down to three. So I think in the interest of everyone's time. >> Okay. >> Oh, good. >> Well, that's good to know. >> But it would be highly amusing television for viewers at home.
>> Okay. I think some of what I say next will help inform, you know, the next steps in this process and what this mass development grant will will um will provide insight for us. So, >> so did you do this PowerPoint, Amy? Is
this yours? >> I did. Yes. >> Yeah. It looks much better than the stuff that Bill Scott used to >> nasty. So, I just provide a quick background. you know, sta town staff have been working closely with the MACH to explore how the Madaki site can best serve the
community. We just talked about that. Um, as you all know, the site represents a unique opportunity for high impact uh reuse that enhances Yarmmer's strengths in tourism, recreation, and hospitality while also expanding year-round economic
activity. Um as the work of the muck will conclude in the in the coming months, town staff will begin to implement the next phase of this project um which is the administration of the mass development community one-stop for growth grant. Um
so after the MUK final report of the con conceptual site plans um we'll implement this grant and it would it's a grant in the amount of $200,000 from the site readiness program for the redevelopment of the MADA site. Um the site readiness
program is designed to support communities in preparing key sites for private investment and economic development. This phase will build off of the efforts of the MUK and help the town better understand the market demand and impacts associated with the Armit's
vision to transform the site into a multi-use um mixeduse development. Um the town staff is currently working with Mass Development on a final scope of work which will support the pre-development
and planning of this 70 acre site. So um how we'll do this um we will do this work by working with two separate firms to accomplish the pre-development and planning functions. One firm will focus on the planning, engineering, permitting, climate resilience,
landscape, landscape architecture, land surveying and GIS mapping elements of this project. While the other firm will focus on market feasibility, infrastructure strategy, finance strate strategy, and the developer engagement
and solicitation support. The goal at the end of of this is to ensure that the site can move forward from concept to implementation with a strong foundation in data um community
alignment and financial viability. So the site um will continue working with the BSC group um as we've been doing throughout this process on this project and they will be undertaking the critical due diligent efforts um to
obtain information necessary for the successful redevelopment of the property. Um BSC group will assist with the site preparation, pre-development planning and permitting analysis which will include site survey work, environmental site assessments, the
water, sewer capacity analysis, transportation, roadway and traffic impacts, permitting and zoning analysis, and cost estimates for site construction, buildings, and infrastructure. These efforts are intended to reduce the
developer's risk without straining the town's financial um resources. So the market analys an analysis um will also a market analysis will also t take place. Um, as we discussed um, just recently, there is a need for the town
to better understand the market demand and impacts associated with certain future site uses, including but not limited to a regional sports facility and affordable housing. A separate consultant will focus on the market feasibility, financial analysis,
uh infrastructure strategy and developer engagement that will position the Madaki site as a compelling opportunity for private investment that aligns with community goals and regional needs. Um and then here I have really what that
will entail. The the the market study will include identification of user groups include including youth sports leagues, the community recreation uses, a regional national tournament, you know, the regional and national tournament organizers and that will help
define viable demand segments. It'll also have a detailed assessment of facility requirements based on the types of sports and events identified, including playing surfaces, spectator seating, sport support amenities, and
operational considerations. An evaluation of comparable venues in the region to understand the competitive context and estimate Yarmas um potential market share. Also an assessment of the site's strategic advantages and
potential limitations including its proximity to route six, existing hotels, existing restaurants, visitor infrastructure and complimentary amenities such as our beaches, recre other recreational activities, entertainment, etc.
an estimation of likely visitor volume associated with different facility program options and seasonal usage patterns and whether Yarmath has adequate infrastructure um to support um and accommodate the project demand.
Um stakeholder interviews will also be conducted with key local and regional representatives to gather insight on market demand, competitive positioning, and potential partnerships. Um and then also an estimate an estimation of new local lodging and
meals tax revenues um that would be generated from increased visitation will be provided as part of this study. Then we'll also use data tools uh to better understand patterns of visitation to the area. >> Oh my
this is tricky here. >> It is tricky. and there'll be a quiz at the end of it. >> A tailored financial stratey strategy will also be prepared to help the town structure the project in a way that attracts private developer interest
while leveraging public um funding to offset infrastructure and pre-develop pre-development costs. Key components will include an estimated property tax revenue projection of the completed facility, an evaluation of the suitability of
district improvement financing, tax increment financing, or other incentive tools that can improve project feasibility from the developer perspective. estimates for key infrastructure investments such as sewer, roadway, and
turning lanes, which will inform total public investment needs and help structure the financing package and al also financial benchmarking from comparable sports and recreational developments, which will provide context for the level and structure of public
participation. This analysis will will give the town the financial tools to negotiate effectively and ensure that infrastructure costs do not become a barrier to the private invest to private investment. Now it doesn't want to move
to help the town successfully transition from the planning to implementation phase. Um, a request for proposal document will be prepared that incorporates incorporates these findings and is framed in a way that will allow align with town and developer interests
and financially feas in that is financially feasible to encourage serious and qualified responses. This task ensures that the town has a well ststructured and compelling solicitation package ready to launch once the site is
investment ready. Oh my god, this is the last slide anyway. So, >> in addition to the mass development scope of work, the town is also working with Vertex Companies um conducting a comprehensive hazardous material
inspection of the Madakis Middle School site. This work is being conducted over the next week and then upon completion a final report will be sent to us and we'll discuss cost estimates for the removal of any hazardous materials. The
combination of all of this work, the site preparation, pre-development planning and permitting analysis coupled with the market intelligence, public finance expertise and real estate advisory support will position the Madaki site for a successful
redevelopment. and um future site uses including but not limited to the sports facility and affordable housing. Good. >> And you're going to do this all for 200,000. >> 200,000. Yep. >> Yeah. >> Good luck.
It's a lot of work. >> We've we're we're working with BSC Group. Um well, and we're we're going to be um finalizing our our scope of work with mass development now, you know, within the next probably month. And then we interviewed um a few other firms for
the market analysis, but that's the that's the scope and the pricing that we we've gotten for that. So, >> the scope's in place. >> Yeah, it's in place. >> This project would be a DRRi, correct? Because of the >> because So, how does that how is that going to impact anybody who's going to
have any interest in >> coming here? >> Well, let me um address that a little bit. You know, one of the issues as we move this forward, it's going to take some time to um you know, have this all pulled together. The fact that we now
have a local comprehensive plan will enable this community to get it certified and then we can be a party to development agreements. We could participate directly with the Cape Cod Commission. And I and I think that that can't be overstated. It's a very
powerful tool. I mean, there's a lot of developers that um you know, won't come to Cape Cod because they don't want to be thrown to the Cape Cod Commission. But um what what we can do is we can participate in the process and and I
think a a lot of what our work up front is going to be geared toward is developing the relationships and we're leveraging some consultants that have relationships currently with private development partners that do these types of things. And you know, we've been talking about this and you know,
throughout the interview process and um they're saying that one of the most important things is they're looking for a community that's going to stand by them, not necessarily absolve them of all of the um you know, environmental mitigation that they need to take place,
but that is going to support them through the process. Um be stakeholders and be a part of it. and and that participation alone, we're told it, you know, should be enough to get a developer that's willing to go through the process. >> I think we need to look at a growth
incentive zone because you're looking at a million dollars probably for anybody. I mean, we're going to be building a rotary in in Wellfleet for this. That's that's what's essentially it's I'm ser it's sad but I mean >> we we built we built just so everybody
knows the intersection by the landfill because BJ's was built and they charge BJ's to pay for that because it was impactful. that that's what we're looking at. Unfortunately, >> you know, whether you call it a a growth incentive zone, whe whatever you call
it, it it may be even easier to negotiate a development agreement on this site and this site alone that is like a growth incentive development agreement, but those discussions haven't started yet. I I will say this, listen, there are about a hundred pitfalls and
obstacles that could knock us down on on the way to this. But I think what we're trying to do is we're trying to develop um a process that enables us to outline all of the potential obstacles and meet everyone and to do it in conjunction
with having a private sector partner that it's it's something that it's going to take it's going to take a lot. This is a very complicated project. But um I honestly feel that with the um you know the utilization committee and the work that they've done where we sit
regionally and some of the demands if we can put together you know the key thing is this financial feasibility and the market analysis if we can put together a project that works um you know I almost think that that we could pull it off maybe not all at once but um I'm I'm
dying to see and then you know we talked about this all also if if it's not exactly our dream as we envision We'll find out what we can do >> and the answer is not going to be nothing. >> Absolutely. No, I agree with that. I just think that we need to be thinking about what we're going to be needing to
do in the meantime because that's something that should be we should be taking I mean that's a process and we've been through it before. So, um you know, it's something that I think we need to be thinking about >> and it's going to take a lot of money to
um take care of that building. It's huge. So, and that's on us that nobody's going to come in and and and gift that to us. So, >> about the de demolition. Oh, yeah. >> I had um of course my mind just went
blank. Um, oh, should when we're when we're doing this these analyses, should the um the package that you have created with the alternatives,
should there be some inclusion of the possible use of Sandy Pond for some of the fields? I I I think I don't I'm I think that's part of the analysis. So to if
we're going to bring some people in who are are the professionals in the big picture, I do think that's part of the big picture. The other thing I I wondering right at the outset, I didn't see any any um any firm that is particularly a part
of their job description is to appraise the solar. I think that's something we should do right off the bat is get a a solar appraisal done and have somebody do the research into um who if anybody
is taking these 10-year-old solar installations and uh updating them, revitalizing them. So I and I I can help with that. Bob wants me to stay on the side of the desk, but yeah. Now the original roof ones were from the
compact ages ago, right? But the but all the ground ones are >> Oh, it's all Cvec now. >> Yeah. >> Oh, okay. >> We have information on the the roof ones, but I don't have information on the ones on the ground. So, >> you don't? >> We do not.
>> I have everything for you. >> Okay. >> Joyce, did you have any questions? >> I did not. Nope. >> Mark, thank you. >> Um, no. I I'm like I said, I be I think the scope this is all perfect. This is terrific. This is what we need to do. I think it's critical for making other
decisions with respect to the site. The sooner we get this done, the fact that you can do all this work for 200 grand, fantastic. God bless you. You deserve a bonus. And uh >> I will I will say I did not get the grant. I I wish I could take credit for
it, but that that was Bill. So, >> well, getting the scope of work developed to and cover all of this is is terrific. Um I I do think that they're going to we're going to be asking them for more money, but hey, let's let's get it all done. >> What's the timeline, you think, on that
scope? >> So, um in when we were discussing it, it's it's approximately 18 months for for this work. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> I'm excited. See what happens.
Perfect. All right. Kathy, don't go >> 7:55 item. Um, we're going to talk. Thank you to everybody. >> Thank you. >> M East, >> yeah, >> for HMP. >> I know.
>> Hazardous mitigation plan. Hi, Kath. >> Hi. I hear the dented one is not as good as the other ones. So, >> thank you. You've done this before. I >> have done this before and I had a conversation with Liam about it. So just just so that I understand this Kathy,
you're looking for us to basically give you the green light to submit a draft >> to Mima and FEMA. >> Mima and FEMA. Okay. Thank you. >> No, Mima and FEMA. You didn't put up the PowerPoint. >> Um I didn't get a PowerPoint. All I got was the
>> memo. Yeah. Oh, the PowerPoint. >> There it is. It's all there. >> There's an actual PowerPoint. >> I can probably do it through this. >> Okay. That looks like a PowerPoint. >> All right. Good evening.
>> My confusion. >> It's okay. No worries. We got it all. Um Kathy Williams, Yarmastown Planner. I'm here to give a presentation on the draft 20 26 hazard mitigation plan. This is an update to our 2017 plan. Um and is being funded through a MIMA hazard mitigation
grant program with 25% in staff services. Um we were able to hire the Cape Cod Commission with that grant. We've been working with Martha Heer at the commission to develop the draft. This is going to be okay. Um, just a brief overview of the
agenda. We're going to go through the actual hazard mitigation plan hopefully very quickly. The next steps and questions and comments. I would point out that the hazard mitigation format and the information is very specific and FEMA requires it to be in this particular format. So, you might say, why did we add that? Well, probably
because FEMA wanted us to do it. So really what is a hazard mitigation plan? What's the purpose for it? We're really trying to develop a strategy where we can really reduce the impacts and the risks from a natural disaster on all aspects of our community um by developing and implementing certain
strategic mitigation actions. So the first chapter has to do with the hazard mitigation planning team. Um we've been very fortunate. We have a lot of residents who have been able to help us with this plan. We have um Steverum here who's um on our team as well as Joanne Crowley who's a representative of
our planning board. We also have Pete Malpass, Rick Pomeroy, Rob Gold, and Chris Latus Latazi, excuse me. And of course, Mary Vilbomb from the chamber uh of commerce. And then every every st uh town staff member participated a little
bit in this particular plan as well. Um, so we also looked at other plans that might help inform the hazard mitigation plan like our multi- our municipal vulnerability preparedness program that we had done. And then we also reviewed um in this section all of the public outreach that we done which included a
survey. We had two different community meetings that we did as well as a 30-day public comment period. So chapter two uh this is the lengthiest section uh and it really provides a very detailed analysis and overview of all the relevant natural hazards that might
impact Yarmouth. It goes through the different types of previous occurrences of these and then identifies how these hazards would impact humans infrastructure economy and our natural environment. These hazards are really come out of the 2023 mass hazard
mitigation and climate adaptation plan. They're a little bit different than what you might have seen in the 2017 plan. They kind of look at different primary interactions, changes in pre precipitation, rising temperatures, extreme weather, and and sea level rise. Based on uh just knowledge from our
hazard mitigation plan team members as well as the survey, we've identified uh certain hazards as being highly highly likely such as inland flooding, coastal erosion, coastal flooding, hurricanes, tropical storms, our severe weather, uh norers, and of course other uh extreme
weather. Then uh different hazards that we saw as being likely included drought, extreme temperatures, wildfire, invasive species, and then possible was tornadoes uh and drought. And then less likely or unlikely was landslides and tsunamis.
So chapter three is really looking at asset inventory. It's really identifying the assets and the populations that are vulnerable to natural hazards. So we're looking at the our people, our yearround residents, our seasonal residents, our elderly residents. We're also looking at our env natural environment and natural
resources. And then the actual built environment, you know, the number of dwelling units that we have, the number of types of businesses that we have, and also looking at our critical faci facilities, our essential facilities, you know, these are all things that we really uh deal with health and welfare of our community and would be
particularly important after a hazard event. Um, essential facilities include things like our police station, our fire station, our DPW, town hall, the hospital, uh, lifeline utilities, our our water and sewer, you know, electric power. Uh, and then telecommunications.
And then transportation systems are our roads, our culverts, bridges, and our marinas. This is being a little tricky, but not quite so bad. Um, chapter 4 is where we tie together the hazard profiles from chapter 2 and then the asset inventory from chapter 3 and we really estimate
the potential losses or impacts um from different hazards. So we took a look at a variety of maps and um modeling that would done has have been done to kind of analyze the assessments or the impacts and the assessed values of those. Uh the FEMA flood maps we have about $1.8 8
billion dollars of total assessed value uh within these special flood hazard areas about 28% of our total assessed values. We also looked at the sea level rise model and we looked at it from 1 foot all the way up to six feet and looked at different building values within there. So with just a one foot
sea level rise, it's about $734 million up to a six foot sea level rise rise and it's almost $1.5 billion worth of building assessment in those particular areas that would be vulnerable. We also looked at the slash the storm surge from hurricanes and you start with the category one which is about 1 billion
and goes all the way up to category 4 which is about $3 billion. Chapter five, you know, identifies the actions to help reduce the risks and loss of life uh and includes taking a look at the progress on the action items that we made from our 2017 hazard
mitigation plan. It looks at our existing town capabilities to deal with the natural hazard. Identifies our goals and then our particular actions. Um, right here you're looking at our existing capabilities and these are the five categories that FEMA wants you to look at. What town plans and policies do you have in place that would help you?
What type of land use and building regulations might you be using whether they're wetland regulations or storm water regulations or building code? What kind of staffing levels do you have and departments that you have uh in order to address a natural hazard? obviously our place in our fire and our DPW. Uh even our building department that goes out
and assesses buildings after storm damage and then takes a look at the financial um capabilities that we might have with regard to paying for mitigation actions including the capital uh as well as grants. We've been able to get variety of grants and then just talking about the different mitigation
activities that we do on an ongoing basis. You know, something as simple as weather monitoring and snow removal and that type of thing. And we developed a a list of seven mitigation plan goals of things that we were hoping that the plan would help us address is preventing loss of life and
injury from natural hazards. Um minim mitigating all and minimizing that financial loss to our community, reducing impacts to our critical services as well as our public infrastructure and ensuring that any uh action items that we have or or solutions that we come up with are being sensitive to the natural features,
historic reser resources and community character. We don't just want to build a burm around an entire community. That's not something that we're looking for. We also want to be sure that we're increasing public awareness through education. And in the past, we've always wanted to encourage hazard mitigation, but we also included climate mitigation
and resiliency planning and overall municipal planning and foster regional collaborations where we can. And then also really trying to position the town to seek and and apply for and get different grant funds. >> Sorry. Um, so we've talked all about, well, we know what we can do now. We got
our existing capabilities. We know what our goals are, where we want to get there. So, we've come up with a dump bunch of different actions to be implemented to reach those goals. And these are the four categories that FEMA uh requires us to to do. Planning and regulation, structures and infrastructure projects, natural systems
protection, and education and awareness. So, in planning and and regulations, we're working on updating our emergency management plan. Um we al actually have incorporated our hazard mitigation actions within our local comprehensive plan. Uh MVP has a next 2.0 version that
we want to be sure that we um go through that process so so we remain eligible for those grants. Uh we want to be sure with our drought we want to make sure that we are doing the water restrictions when we need and adding education so people are aware. We want to complete that neighborhood emergency eress study that's done south of Route 28 looking at
sea level rise and flooding and evacuation areas. uh looking at a fire station feasibility study for fire station one which is located in a slash slash zone. Looking to develop another disaster debris management area. I believe the um Parkers River Landing was
the last one that we had. I don't think we have another location for that. Uh looking at our wetland regulations, we had talked about it before about looking at protecting coastal resiliency zones. We want to take another look at that and consider developing uh a climate action plan for our community as well as evaluating participation in the
community rating system to reduce flood insurance for our residents. And the last one is the Croll Pond or Run Pond Title Restoration Project which is addressing um that large culvert underneath Smugglers Beach parking lot and pref uh implementing that preferred alternative. We're working with the
friends of Bass River on that structural infrastructure projects. You're well aware of the packet landing uh marina resiliency project which is making great project to elevate the lower parking lot revet mw wall and wararf at that marina. We're working at replacing the thatcher shore uh culvert
expanding a lot of things that we've been talking about and we've have a lot of great projects going on but maybe we need to start looking at expanding some of our capabilities. there's a lot more grant management, more coastal resiliency projects, and maybe we need to evaluate whether we need new staff to to um work in these positions so that we
can get take advantage of all the grant money that's available out there. Um the upper bass river title restoration project, that's replacing the culvers with bridges at North Dennis Road and Weir Road. The actual weir road bridge is going before the concom pro progress as well. Uh also looking at
our coastal structures and coming up with funding to repair them. you know, the seaw walls and jetties at the end of Parker's River and Bass River and over at um Englewood Beach. And then also looking for water supply resiliency. This is something that uh came out of a comment from Liz about adding generators
at more of our wells so that we can sustain a long-term uh loss of power and maintain that essential um use. Education and awareness. The fire department has a great education team and they get various grants and they give presentations on a variety of
safety topics including uh storm preparedness and then trying to increase our public outreach through increased social media posts and radio spa spots on natural hazards. Then the natural systems um working on the Lewis Bay sediment transport study. I believe that's something that I think it's on the capital. I don't know if it got on
the FY27, but they're looking at an erosion accretion and shing study for Lewis Bay. uh securing that 10-year dredge permit for the upper reaches of the Bass River, which has never been uh dredged before. And again, the upper reaches of the Bass River wetland restoration project that we're working with with Friends of Bass River, that's
also on the agenda for the Kong on Thursday. Uh continuing with our invasive species management, specifically on town land and then including them in various town projects. We actually did a lot of invasive species management at the Parker River Landing. kind of didn't know about it at first, but as we moved into it, we did a
great uh effort there to um address the invasive species and looking at acquisitions and different lands that are going to help protect wetlands, provide for salt marsh migration if they happen to be uh floodprone or allow for storm water enhancements or maybe if they happen to be um location where
there's a repetitive loss property where they continually uh have impacts. Uh reinstating the program on the town woodlands to reduce wildfires and improve wildlife habitat. Obviously that's done closely with the with the fire department and the regional um entities to make sure that we are doing
it at the proper time and then also the Bayiew bog restoration. Uh the Cape Cod Hospital I believe that has also gone through the conservation commission is making great progress. So chapter six is the plan evaluation. Uh we're going to be looking at the plan annually by the planning team comprised
of town staff. We want to see if there's any new data, any new hazards that have been identified. We'll take a look at how what progress we're making on the various mitigation actions and see if we need to make any changes on that and then we'll give an annual presentation uh to the select board. The hazard mitigation plan needs to be updated
every 5 years and then plan adoption. As Mark mentioned, what I'm looking for this evening is approval from the select board to submit the draft hazard mitigation plan to MIMA and FEMA for review. Um MIMA helps us out. They kind of pre-review it for FEMA and identify
any major issues. is we can make some edits and then we'll submit it to FEMA. Ultimately, hopefully we get an approval letter from FEMA and then you guys need to formally adopt um the the plan once FEMA has approved it. Um so I would note that the uh grant does end May 2nd, 2026
and we need to be through the FEMA process by that date. >> You said the last one was in 2017. >> Yeah, it's more than five years. >> Yeah. >> Acknowledged. >> Oh, okay. Um, does does any of this have any relation to the home insurance?
>> The the the community rating system does. Yes. And that's a situation where you can um you can probably get some assistance to get into the system and it's uh depending on the what rating you are, you can get 5% off or 10% off or 15% off. Um but my understanding is that
there is uh a lot of annual backup that needs to be provided and trying to find out more information on what's involved with that. And this becomes an issue where as we're in doing more initiatives and more programs, do we have the staff in order to be able to do that annual review and documentation that's
necessary to remain in that in that program. So that's why we would be evaluating it and seeing what that's >> what that involves. >> All right, Mark. I'd like to make a motion, Madam Chair. >> Yes. >> That we approve sending the draft HMP to MIMA and FEMA for review.
>> There second. >> Second. >> Any discussion on the motion? >> The only thing I like to say is you did a great job. Um, you you always deliver very quick, very concise presentations and that's appreciated. So, thank you Kathy. >> The team did a great job. Steve, you
know, Joanne, the whole team, and I can't say enough about town staff and how helpful they were preparing it as well as well as the commission. >> I appreciate on the early slides that you gave as there all these disasters, you gave us two, tsunami and landslide that were unlikely for us and that was
that was the late night relief we needed. >> You can sleep well tonight, Joyce. And I would just add that it's it's an interesting plan that needs to now be brought to our energy committee because last night they met and they were talking a lot about what what of this
they should be also tackling. >> So make sure that connection is made. >> I think it's great. I also move it right along. All those in favor I >> I. >> Any oppose? Pass unanimously. Thank you so much. Appreciate it all.
Good work, Steve. >> All right, >> that was wonderful. Boards and committee actions. >> Okay. >> Thank you, Megan. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. Um, I'd like to
accept with thanks um the resignation of David Coverta. Cover. Um he's resigning after years from the Tony Kent Arena Board effective immediately. Um and I also would suggest that we um keep our
eyes and ears open for a potential replacement. Um especially somebody who is enthused about figure skating. Uh >> it's not just figure skating. >> That's right. It's Yep. It's it's a community center and Yep. >> hockey.
>> That's right. There's that fast skating with sticks. So anyway, I move that we um we accept with thanks his resignation. >> Oh, second. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I >> I
>> Okay. >> An employee. >> I see. >> Okay. Um I propose to appoint um Mr. Steven Brewer as a regular member of the board of health. This appointment is for a three-year term and will run through
October 2028. So move >> whose position is he >> who is a regular position? >> Um this is the one that um was uh Charles Hullway. >> Okay. Was in his ran out in his terms
up. Okay. So because I was going to say we didn't accept a uh resignation. Okay. Perfect. >> Second. >> All in favor? Hi. >> Hi. >> Okay. Then, um I suggest the uh reappointment
of Hillard Bossi um to a three-year term on board of health to run through October 2028. >> So moved. >> Second. All in favor? >> I. Um, I suggest the appointment um for one
year to run through December 2026 of John Stewart for the alternate position on the old Kings Highway. And that's a reappoint because he has done that before. >> So moved. >> Second. >> I >> I And I'd also thank John for his
service. >> Okay. Now, uh, we have, um, five reappoints for community health. Do you want me to do them as a slate? uh you have to do just read the bottom part because this will that each one of
them has a certain uh time. >> So if you make a recommendation just read those last three things and we'll be fine. >> Okay. Um I suggest reappointing um Mr. Bar, Miss Hamilton, and Miss Sugenas uh
as regular members of the community housing committee. These terms are for three years and will run through January 2029. >> So moved. Second. >> All in favor? >> I >> I suggest reappointing Mr. Trot and Mr. Wheeler as regular members of the
community housing committee. These terms are for two years and will run through January 2028. >> So moved. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I. >> I suggest reappointing Ms. Perry as an alternate member of the community housing committee. This appointment is
for a one-year term and will run through January of 2027. >> So moved. Second. Oh, thank you all. You have to vote on it. >> Oh, yeah. All in favor? >> I >> I >> All right. Thank you all.
>> Thank you. Perfect. Okay. Upcoming agenda review. Our next meeting will be well, I don't even know what today is. >> Three weeks from today. >> February 24th. >> So, our next meeting is February 24th.
>> And then it'll be the year of the horse. Um, transfer of the liquor license, new liquor license, best bass river golf course, parkers over landing policies, seasonal community designation. I'm just trying to think about what might take some
time. I don't know if that we have um the communications plan and short-term rental study. So that's a full agenda and >> and energy committee is going to be um submitting um a statement that they
passed unanimously at their last meeting which is a a name change >> and uh and >> it's not their committee to make a name change though. I don't >> but they're submitting a request to us. >> Oh, okay. >> Yeah. But but they've done it all as a nice little formal statement >> and and they want to also change their
charge. Oh. Um, they and then there would be a reflection of that in a change charge which they have also drafted and are submitting and they're up to six members. They're in great shape. >> Okay. Well, they don't need to submit.
They uh they should submit it and then we should discuss whether or not we want to put it on the agenda. So, have them just submit it and then at our next meeting >> Oh, they're very aware that you know they need our approval. Yep. And I have an agenda item that um we'll want to um
discuss perhaps. Um earlier this evening you heard that the um Susan Gregory Davis had noted that her group the Yarmouth for all
there's a lot of um reaction on the part of myself certainly to the the anger that was generated by the fairness resolution something that we thought would just be straightforward. Barnstable adopted it in in record time
and it's really kicked up fury here. So, um they're going to uh bring forward a ballot or a request to this select board that this become a ballot question. So, that's we don't need to agendaize it yet.
>> When she does it through the town clerk, the town clerk will bring it to us. >> That's what she's doing. But just so you know, >> and um Okay. >> There were I noticed that on we tal we were going to talk about seasonal communities. >> It's on here.
>> Where is it? Sorry. >> I believe it's on >> meeting. >> I just read it. >> Great. Thank you. Okay. Moving on from agenda review to individual items. I'm sorry, but it's
it's late. It's getting late. Anybody have any agenda uh individual items? >> No. Oh, I had one thing. It's easy. It's It's very quick. Um, the energy committee is going to also have their
outreach person uh be at the senior center the hour before my office hours so people can come and see them and then see me. So, that would be the third Thursday. The energy committee outreach person will be there at two o'clock and then I'll be there at three o'clock.
>> Oh, perfect. And we now have the the library plan there for people to come to the senior center and look at that as per the grant submission. That's it. >> Okay. And administrator items u consent
agenda. >> I move the consent agenda >> and I would just say thank you to Tom Nanillo and I second it >> for the St. Patrick's parade. That's Desi, right? That's >> Desmond. >> Desmond Kia.
>> Yeah. Bomb's all over it. >> Is there a second to the >> I seconded it. >> I thought you moved it. Oh, I moved it. >> Okay. All those in favor? >> I >> I >> opposed. 10 administrator updates. >> All right. I'll just go quickly here. I
wanted to let you know that we had a great seasonal communities webinar held by housing and livable communities and I learned a great deal. We've got a lot of information on that and so there'll be a lot that can fuel the discussion
forward that to board members. Um I did want to mention uh a number of us attended last week the Massachusetts Municipal Association Connect 351 meeting in Boston. It's a very worthwhile meeting and I really really need to single out Mark Forest. Um,
>> thank you Mark. >> Whole Cape Islands Municipal Leaders Association for the special session that they arranged with the Lieutenant Governor >> was amazing. >> That was absolutely a highlight of the meeting and we had a whole agenda list of items that are very important to the
>> a lovely thank you to Maggie Downey. Beautiful. >> Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that. That was something that was very special. She was very touched by that. And to see all the love expressed towards her >> was just amazing. It was just so it was so gratifying. And uh I'm glad I'm I'm
glad we were able to pull it off. >> Just so that for your benefit, Tracy, we we give the governor's office a long list of things that we're all been talking about and we need for the last several years, we've been asking them to give us more wastewater money. and uh the lieutenant governor came prepared
saying how much money they've been giving us over the past year. So, she's been a little bit tired of hearing from us on on some of that, but the reality is we need more, you know, >> so >> not just us. >> Thank you, Bob. >> Great. And um I also wanted to mention
last Friday um Chairman Post and I and our team met with the superintendent's office um for their budget update. Unfortunately, we don't have any real good news to report that there's a tremendous um amount of work I think that needs to be done still in that
school budget. I I don't think it's really stabilized as to where exactly uh they're going to wind up, but um >> they voted a tenative budget of about 86 million last night. >> So, you know, that could meet a 10%. >> It it's right where we were at. They
haven't done it the work yet. They have work to do. So, >> and um That's a 10% assessment increase as it stands. Um I think that they will do some work. They're gonna they're looking to take some one-time things out, do some END and maybe some
>> health insurance and some of the other things. I think that there's some significant >> reduction. I mean, >> you know, we're looking at an override for sure. Um >> yeah, >> we just don't know the the if it's 1 million or 2 million or 3 million. Well,
when you look at the overrides that we've done, um, they've come after some substantial adjustments, uh, my hope is is that they can find substantial savings or I think the override is going to be in trouble. They're I'm hoping
they can do more work and more, uh, you know, rolling up the sleeves and finding more savings because the numbers that I'm hearing just don't they're not going to be supported. It'll be it'll be incred It's very bad news.
>> Well, as we know, we also have the 30 extra students at Cape Tech that's going to um you know, >> add to that number. Um >> it's what 31 more something like that. >> And I I would mention also um we're
continuing to work with the health insurance team and um again I'm on that steering committee to work with those G drugs and um you know I could put it in the context of the school budget for you that you know there's such a massive
hit for the use of those drugs solely for for weight loss if they're covered by our insurance um it may wind up bankrupting the whole system and I think I'm prepared to vote to remove that coverage for only for um >> wow >> weight loss not to remove it but it's
already been removed by the health insurance companies we would have to have a whole new um rider to to carry that. And um if we're successful in that vote, based on what the school has set aside, they could save $500,000.
>> That much just for eliminating one drug. >> Wow. >> 500,000 for one drug just for the school. >> Just for the school. So I mean that's how that's how big these numbers are. So um I'm going to be following through with that and um you know some questions
that we have with all of the, you know, labor groups and things, but I think everyone would agree we don't want to not have health insurance now because we've mismanaged it for, you know, one drug that costs millions and millions. >> No. >> So,
>> some key things I'll skip a couple of other ones I wanted to mention. I'll be out of the office um Wednesday through Friday of this week um for a brief getaway. So, if anyone's looking for me, my cell phone and think that's it for one night.
>> Thank you, Bob. Uh, and we need to add to the agenda um the well, it's going on the consent agenda to ratify your um >> That's right. >> your agreement in public >> and that'll be February 24th.
>> Motion to adjurnn. >> Yes. >> A second. >> Second. All those in favor? >> I >> Good evening. >> Did you check your text messages?