Not quite as chilly as it was the other day. >> Recording in progress. >> I like that sound. Okay. Um, welcome to the Yarmmer Select Board meeting for December 16, 2025 at 6 PM in
the Yarmouth Town Hall hearing room at 11:46 Route 28 South Yarmouth. Uh to those that would like to be watching on Zoom, please know that you just need to go to the town website and the information will be there for you to be able to join us. Would you like to all
stand now for the pledge of allegiance, please, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. First off, let me just say a very uh
warm thank you to Joyce Flynn for in giving us all a lot of chocolate here tonight. >> There was an elf outside and he gave me a bag. >> Okay, starting off our first item is announcements. Do we have any announcements for this evening, Liz?
Chair, uh, I would like to announce that as a select person, I have office hours at the senior center on, uh, December 18th and January 15th. That's every third Thursday every month at 3:00. So,
if you can get the out, you'll know that's when you show up at senior center. And I'll be there, too. So, if you have anything you want to bring forward, um I'll be there at the senior center December 18th, which is next week, and then January 15th. I also wanted to do a quick shout out Amanda
Lima. Um I I'm on the Cape Cod uh Metropolitan Planning Organization, and they um noted her finding a bike rack that was missing in the comprehensive collection of bike racks across Cape Cod. So, Amanda's paying strict
attention. Also, I wanted to note the Judah Baker windmill has um had a great year and there are our um volunteers who are there taking the tourists through and I I wanted to say thank you to them too for the for their volunteering.
Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you, Liz. Do we have any other announcements today? >> Just following up on Liz. I think we're very uh fortunate in this town for the great volunteers that we have with historic uh to do just things like the
Judah Baker. And tonight is kind of a good example of uh my thanks to our volunteers too because I see the library committee is got here nice and early. Unfortunately, we'll have to make you wait for a little bit. Um do we have
public comment? I see some uh hands that are up. Uh Christopher Garren. >> Yes. Good evening. Season meeting. >> Yes. Go ahead.
>> Oh, thank you. Uh the proposed resolution discussed during the December 2nd garment selected merely raises serious public safety questions about the Yarmouth Police Department's he engagement policy that are causing confusion among the town's people that may possibly endanger the safety of the
police officers. I support Yarmouth Police Chief Lenin for many reasons and one is his demonstrated public outreach and open door policy to guarantee clarity and answer frequently asked questions about the police department. The good news is Chief Lennon has publicly posted the ICE engagement
policy on the department's immigration facts FAQs web page stating the Yarmouth police officers may accompany or assist ICE agents to maintain public safety and protect bystanders during federal enforcement action. However, the
Yarmouth Police Department does not participate in civil immigration enforcement or detain individuals solely based on ICE detainers. Maintaining public safety appears to be Chief Lennon's prime directive when accompanying or assisting ICE agents. Nowhere does the department's web page indicate that police officers will
interfere with federal enforcement action or arrest and engage in a physical fight with ICE agents. During public comment, 26 people spoke, 15 opposed the resolution and 11 supported it. The eighth public comment speaker of the night was a supporter of the
resolution and apparent member of Yarmouth for everyone. Speaker number eight directly contradicted Chief Lennon's publicly posted policy by predicting if ICE comes to town, quote, it may come to a fight. It may come to a situation where you expect our police
department to interfere with ICE arrests. Yes, I believe that may actually happen. End quote. This occurs at the 1 hour and 25 second mark of the YouTube video of the meeting. The YouTube video of the meeting further shows that the speaker number eight received applause and handshakes from
the resolution supporters when he finished. This prediction of violence against ICE is confusing because the proposed resolution does not include a statement advocating this. In fact, the statement concludes with the first public comment speaker who was a
self-described member of Yarmouth for everyone and apparently the group spokesperson. To summarize, the spokesperson represented to the board that the proposed resolution is clear and understandable, cla no interference with law enforcement, and that its members met with police chief Lenin to confirm their support for the police. A
number of subsequent opponents of the resolution, however, raised specific concerns that the resolution would confuse the public about the police department's role. To paraphrase, the 22nd speaker explained that a symbolic resolution could Mrs. form from the
public would misinterpret the instructions about the armed police officers not to cooperate with federal authorities. As a 23rd speaker, I raised the confusion caused by speaker number eight statement and questioned whether the police chief or the officers were aware that they were expected to interfere and fight with ICE.
Nevertheless, no one no one who spoke in support of the proposed resolution during the meeting addressed the public safety issue potentially endangering Yarmouth police officers or disavowed the speaker number eight statement. In conclusion, he have heard both sides. Unity is non-existent for this proposed
resolution. 15 opposed, 11 supported. These 15 people who opposed the resolution represented various voting age groups from working age to retired and apparently spoke as individuals and not part of an organized group. You heard these opponents commonly advocating for peace, order, and
compliance with the law because they are the ones actually concerned about public safety for everyone in Yarmouth, including its police officers, first responders, firefighters, business owners, and everyone living in Yarmouth, which is the in accordance with Chief
Lennon's publicly posted policy. These advocates for everyone in Yarmouth who opposed the resolution asked that these laws be enforced equally even when the suspects happen to be in violation of federal immigration laws. They opposed on the record and did not advocate
violence or predict that they expect Chief Lenin would have to order his officers to risk their lives to interfere and fight ICE agents. As a result, the proposed resolutions has raised serious questions. Therefore, after the legal opinion is completed and
considered, I respectfully request that this board deny the resolution specifically addressing Chief Lennon's publiced ICE policy. Prior to the board's decision, however, I ask that this board please request that the legal opinion clearly discusses and specifically
explains one, Chief Lennon's publicly posted ICE policy. Two, the Arand should ICE come to town and who is ultimately responsible during a public safety emergency. And three, the legal requirements and expectations of the people of Yarmouth should ICE come to
town and what are the penalties for violating them. Finally, I would also request that once the legal opinion is issued and the board reaches the decision that town administrator Writtenhower, continuing his successful effort to modernize and improve town hall's communications with the public,
produce a short video posted to the town's website specifically explains the legal opinions explanation of the three previous issues because the people of Yarmouth need to know for their safety. No one should want to turn today's confusion into tomorrow's chaos. Thank
you so much for the opportunity to speak. >> Thank you very much. I see a hand up for Manny's mind. >> Yes. Good afternoon. Good evening. Uh madame vice chair Tom Nickello uh speaking
mind. >> Yes. Yes. Uh we're doing something different for next year. Anyways, um um I just wanted a couple of comments. Thank you very much. Uh, you know, we made some history a couple of Sundays uh ago with a great little uh event up in
uh the north side. Uh it's been going on for many years, but the historical society and the chamber of commerce really pulled it off and uh you know that tourism preservation revenue fund really works well on the uh you know on the off season to bring our community
together uh with the Christmas troll and the winter carnival and the parade. I mean, these are the events that our community needs to feel together and and appreciate each other. Uh during the summertime, we have a a a massive flux of people and our residents can't get
out, enjoy our restaurants and shopping. We don't want to we don't want to wait 3 hours for dinner. But these uh spring and fall events are truly truly remarkable to our community and and to help it uh you know move in in the future uh with some with some good
stuff. So uh with the chamber and our own town administrator was there uh did a wonderful job. I heard the voice was calling. So pay attention for that. And then my my second comment uh madame vice chair is tonight you're you're going to
be looking at the CIP budget and uh you're going to have you know those wonderful volunteers that spend uh marathon meetings putting this work together. But I just want to point out uh on the first page of I think it's the
16th line uh we we talk about storm water and you know storm water um you know here we are we just had our first snow and it's going to rain and we're going to have storm water problems and I believe you all recall just a few months
ago uh Amanda De Lemur a wonderful a wonderful town engineer uh stated the fact that we have five plus years of backlog on storm water problems. We have residents that every time an event happens, whether it's snow or rain,
there's always an issue in front of their house and it's the same thing over and over again. So, Amanda said there's, you know, probably five plus years backlog, but I think we all know it's more like 10 plus years. So, the line item once again, uh, is $200,000.
I think there should really have some time amongst the select board members to you know uh have a discussion on storm water. Everyone's worried about you know the sea level rising and everything. Well, we have storm water flooding happening right now and it's been
happening for a long time and it's really important that we should address that. The the budget should be looked at. Um I don't know if we can afford it to to increase it. Um you know we're very cashstrapped our our community. We have a lot of things going on in the
future, but storm water is extremely important. And with that, I'll wrap it up and wish you all a good night and merry Christmas and looking forward to next year. Thank you. >> Thank you, Tom. Okay. Uh, I don't see any other hands up
on the screen and I don't see anyone coming to the podium. So, I believe we have come to the end of our public comments. Moving on now to our next agenda item. We have change of manager Sons of Aaron Cape
Cod, 633 Route 28 West Jarmath to Katherine Fitz Simmons as manager. >> Right up where the big tray of chocolates are. I'll move to the side. How are you? >> Good evening. >> Good evening.
>> Hello. >> Hello. Hey, we heard you. >> We did. Okay. you pro probably don't need this anyway. >> So yes. Um >> could I ask you though to speak into the mic because it's for the television audience as well. Thank you. >> Thank you.
>> Okay. So um I'm right now the acting manager at the Sons of Eron due to the passing of Mike Shay who was our previous manager. Um just a little background on me. I've been with the Suns for 18 plus years in many different functions. um kitchen manager, function
manager, now acting bar manager, and club manager. Uh I've lived in Yarmouth for 10 years. People might recognize me from the parade committee. Um do you have any questions for me? >> Uh Mark Forest? >> No, I don't.
>> Joyce, >> I don't either. It looks like you've been certified by by officer Renzy, and it sounds like he thinks highly of your knowledge. >> He's a very very nice. He's very helpful. I'm all set. >> You're all set. And I am Thank you so much. I'm set. So, thank you very much.
Um, all it is >> all in favor of the change in management. I don't think we even have to vote on it, do we? >> Yes, you do. >> We do. Okay. >> Do I have a motion? >> We approve as as submitted. >> Been out of practice for a while. Yes. >> Second. >> Okay. Um, all those in favor?
>> I opposed. It passes unanimously. Congratulations and thank you very much. >> Thank you for your time. I think you missed. >> Did I miss >> I see Bob moving toward the computer, so he's getting us ready for the next item on the agenda, which is capital
improvement program. So Sandy, how many hats are you wearing tonight? You got capital improvement, you got the library. I >> think I got the other ones. Same goes for Ken. >> Just one. Just one tonight. >> Just one tonight.
>> Got many. >> And who would like to start us off? >> Sandy will. >> I will. >> Okay, no problem. >> Thank you for having us tonight. So, this presentation is the official handoff to facilitate budget and capital
discussions for the annual town meeting in the spring. I'd like to introduce my committee even though many of them couldn't be here tonight. Uh my name is Sandy Fe. I am the chair. To my left is Ken Smith. He is our vice chair. He is from the planning board. >> Good evening.
>> Um George Perkins is from the finance committee. And then we our members at large include Andrew Leair, Danielle Nukem, Lindseay Petro, and Joseph Jamal. And each one of those ma wears many hats also.
Next slide. The capital budget committee is charged with reviewing all capital items initiated by the departments. It makes recommendations to the finance committee, the board of selectmen, and town meeting. We are a seven member
committee and we are appointed by the finance committee. The committee's recommendations take the form of a five-year capital plan and a 10-year facilities plan as required by the charter. Tonight, we're here to provide an overview of our preliminary
recommendations and to answer any specific questions that you may have on any of the requests. We'll try As you know, the capital budget is separated separate from the operating budget and it's comprised of priority capital items with a value of $10,000 or
more or useful life of five years or more. This is our fourth year using the cloudbased system. We miss Bill. It starts with the departments entering their requests and then it moves over to
the town administrator who reviews the requests with finance and recommends items to the CDC. The system facilitates a more rapid movement of the capital plan that we had in the past and it captures all requests
both for the annual town meeting warrant and the fall town meeting. >> Thank you. This slide highlights the October 1st delivery of the um to the capital budget committee by the town administrator and
also the December 1st delivery by the capital budget committee to the finance committee. To meet these deadlines, it requires weekly meetings over a concentrated period of time. Once the town administrator approves the projects, the CBC initiates its liaison
approach, assigning one or two members to meet with each department, reviewing the equipment and discussing projects in detail. Then each department appears before the full committee to address any changes or outstanding questions. I know you've seen this before, but for
the public, we do have a rating criteria which is made up of two different scores, significance and readiness. It's a weighted score. Significance gets 70% and the readiness gets 30%. So to give
you an example of how that works, we rate from one to four. Four being the highest. If we rate something a four, it means it will remedy a health or a safety issue or or a mandate. And under readiness, it means they also have plans
and permits and studies and cost estimates in place. Um the rating criteria is on our website for anyone who wishes to review it. We will show you the our rankings um further on in the presentation. This
particular slide, um, I know the print is very small for the public, but it is available on the website, shows a listing of the items we've recommended from free cash. The total from free cash this year is 5,126,440. The first column actually shows what we
recommended for the fall town meeting. Um, it's kind of being cut off. We will um be available to answer any questions on any one of these particular items. Many of these items you have actually seen before.
The next slide shows the items from the finance from the fire ambulance receipts. At the fall town meeting, we addressed replacement of a f an ambulance number 56. Moving forward to the annual town meeting, there are five items from the fire ambulance receipts.
um the engine 47 may um I'm not really sure if that will come from fire ambulance receipts or if it will be a borrowing, but there will be more discussion on each one of these items as you review your annual town meeting warrant.
The next items are from the golf enterprise fund. Four items approved by the committee move forward at the fall town meeting. And the reason for that is they do those projects over the winter. Um, there also will be four items at the
annual town meeting recommended. The Bass River parking lot expansion, which adds 55 spaces, golf course furniture and accessories, and some new technology with a new top dresser and a sprayer.
The next items are from the water enterprise fund. Um, several of these you see every single year. The distribution systems improvements which do improvements to the water manes and improves the flow and quality and then
production system hardware which is the scatter which controls the pumps and the chemical feed. So those items you see every single year they have two other items to replace two pieces of equipment. Um we can answer questions on
those if you have them. This slide shows recommendations from other financing sources. Um, from the tax levy, roadways improvements is an item we see every single year for $1.1 million. Packet landing project was funded
partially from free cash. This is this grant total that the they were able to get a $2 million grant to offset that cost. Um, the next item, the library facility. You will be hearing more about that tonight. Um, this item, although we
did make a recommendation on it, there is a lot more information we will be needing and talking about this more after the town meeting warrant comes out where we have more firm cost estimates in total in the grant totals. Last item is chapter 90 roadways.
Um each year we get money from the state which um is estimated this year at $840,000. So the total recommendations from the committee this year is 35 million667,0669. It sounds it sounds like a lot but that
does include the library project. Many of these items I won't say many of them. Some of these items may change, funding sources may change as more information comes forward um when the town meeting warrant gets prepared in January and February and the committee
will once again meet starting in February to review the town meeting warrant once the board releases the draft. This slide shows just basically our recommendations by division.
This is a 10-year plan as entered into the portal. Um, as you will notice that some years may look inflated by based basically by large projects. Um we're very excited moving forward on the 10-year plan that the school department
has purchased the portal and they will um next year be giving us a five and 10-year plan which is something that we haven't we've been asking for for the last several years would the new administration over there. They're going to make it happen. So we're excited about that.
This is very tiny. It is available on the website and you do have a copy. Basically these are our recommendations in order. Um we we discussed the ranking process with the two scales of significance and readiness. All the projects recommended
by administration have been ranked and no projects fell below the 3.0 which is usually our cut off. Um so this is just a listing of the rankings if for the board's review or the public if they want to go on the website. Sorry it's so
small. So each year the capital budget committee identifies has observations have discussions and this year we've identified four recommendations some of which you've probably seen before. On
the first one um we always ask if if we could have an earlier submitt which would be difficult for the departments and you don't want them doing capital during the summer but um we don't really see the capital until September. So we
have September, October and maybe two weeks in November and then we have to have our everything all done. So it's really kind of rushed. Um so an expanded time would be would be great. The second consideration is um
a discussion on a standard escalation factor especially for vehicles. A lot of times the departments are asking for a vehicle during the summer or or the fall. has to come to us and they don't get that vehicle again um for a year or
two years and they're trying to fit them into a 10-year plan also. So if uh standard escalation factor may be um something that would help the departments. Each year we have a discussion on utilizing purchasing power between departments for rolling stock. And that
would only rarely work for certain departments because there's a lot of specialized equipment that is unique like fire and police that um but for other things like trucks um utilizing purchasing power um may save the town
some money. As I mentioned, we are emphasizing our five and 10 year plan with the departments and as I mentioned, the school is going to refine their capital budget and um which may make for a better plan next year when we do our
presentation. What are the next steps? We've already gone before the finance committee and presented our plan. Tonight we're here before the board and moving forward we will be meet reconciling the plan to the annual town meeting warrant for any
changes. Um and we'll be back in front of you in March with the final plan um and to answer any questions. Well, as I've stated before, the capital budget improvement plan is a foundational document to facilitate
discussion. So I want to acknowledge and thank department heads and my committee for all their time and their effort. I also want to thank um our finance director Jen for all her input this year. The capital budget process is a collaborative approach across the entire
organization and a lot of time has gone into this for both the members of the capital budget committee but also for all who participate and to date we put in more than 15 meetings have occurred between the uh cap capital budget the liaison
and the departments to come up with our preliminary recommendations for the upcoming year. So the next slides um were put together by the town administrator and I'm going to turn this portion of the presentation.
>> Go one more. >> Not there. >> Bobouse. >> Thank you Sandy. That was that was awesome. I I too want to just take a minute to thank Sandy, Ken, the entire um CIP committee and the
town departments for for all of their work. You know, I couldn't be more proud of this group um and their efforts. If you recall going back, you know, it started a a few years ago, we established the goal of making our capital improvement program um here in
town, a first class financial planning tool that goes beyond, you know, establishing the budget, but really creates the data um that we need to to make this a financial planning tool. And um I know you know Bill brought us the
cloud-based system that provided some of that infrastructure that we needed, but it was really all of the you know roll up your sleeves hard work of pushing the departments to have a longer term viewpoint and having the committee there to shepherd that whole process through
and to work directly with the um finance director uh Jen Mullen. And um I'll I'll tell you what, I I think that you can see from this effort, it's evident when you just take a look at the in your package the entire capital improvement
program and now has a separate project analysis sheet for every single project um out throughout the years. Um I I think they've really done a um a great job and I I wanted to focus on a couple of things. I mean, there's two real
critical parts to the CIP. There's the um annual budget that we appropriate using free cash or whatever other revenues are available. There's some in the pro the property tax uh and and that the smaller projects
moving forward over time, what we're going to see. And then there's the the second part of it, which is um the the real heavier side of the the CIP that I want to focus on for a couple of minutes that involves the 10-year forecast for
all of our upcoming community facilities projects. And that is the area um that we need to move from the capital planning piece to identify these projects into the financial planning
mode that we can begin to develop implementation strategies for how we're going to get these projects done and and that's what the work of the CIP has enabled us um you know to to really do. So, I want to kind of um focus on on
those issues. And um again, these are larger constru construction projects. It's all going to require bonding. It's going to require debt um long-term um planning associated with this. So um what happens is that
these larger projects which the the committee working with the departments has identified they filter through the CIP where they're identified right straight to the finance director Jen Mullen who with her team begins the work
on an analysis that involves the town's long-term debt ability to pay um the means that we have over time and and what we try to do with that process is to begin to put together um some
strategies and um I want to show a couple of slides that um point that out a little bit and I want to call the selectman's attention to in your packet there is um a copy it's a photocopy of
the presentation that Sandy just gave and if you could go to the last page page on it. It has some of the information that I have um up on the screen, but in a more comprehensive viewpoint. Um the critical projects that we've
highlighted that are all going to hit this town over the next 10 years that we need to begin planning for um are outlined on this sheet. And the one that's on the screen is a portion of the overall sheet that shows a complete
analysis of um debt service from 2026 to 2064. And it also includes every single project, what all of the principal interest um would be for bonds. It analyzes the current existing debt um
and what tax rate impacts would be on on any new debt. And um this sheet is good for folks to just to be oriented on, but I do want to um show that that there's a much more comprehensive sheet that obviously doesn't fit up on the screen,
but the key points are that over the next 10 years, the projects that the town needs to grapple with are as follows. We have the first one is the library project. Um and hopefully
you there's roughly a 45% grant that's associated um with that project. The second major project we're looking at is the Bayberry Hills groundwater recharge to support phase one of the sewer. Um we've estimated that's going to be an
additional $35 million over the phase one costs and we need a financial plan associated with that. Um we've uh factored in that we know there's a feasibility study starting for the elementary school. We'll be discussing that a little bit more. Um the estimate
for a total project is there with the 57% grant if we participate in the SBA. U we have a new fire station and headquarters uh that we have to plan and that is estimated at 40 million. And
don't forget we get through with all of that, we are staring down the barrel at wastewater phase two um in the amount of 60 million. So uh there's a lot of projects. Um these are what we consider to be the major projects. It doesn't
include things like new baseball fields and but but these are the buildings and these are the items that are all the big ticket items that are really confounding um the town. So in planning a couple of points on this
chart that that show out when when we plan for these u larger projects there's a couple of characteristics just to keep in mind as we move forward. First and foremost obviously with so many needs they can't be accomplished all at once. So we're going to have to do some staggering um and we're going to have to
time these so that over a period of time we're able to accomplish them. Um just folks should need is should know especially um if you're in favor of any of these projects it it all requires time uh to get so many large projects
done and there's capacity but the biggest capacity issue that we need to address is the financial capacity. So um obviously you don't have that in any one given year. And the the second critical item um you can see that when a project
is approved, often there's a 3 to fouryear lag between the actual time a project is approved and when it shows up on the actual debt that the town has to begin to raise funds to pay for them. And when you talk about these building
pro projects, um, very often you have a situation where, um, here's a project library that's the first one because of the, uh, timing of the grant requirements, uh, it shows up first on our list. And if that is, uh, it is
proposed for the Springtown meeting, say it's approved in 2026, we don't see bills coming through until 2028. in 2029 and even then those are only the
temporary financing for interest only. You don't start paying off the actual principal payments hit start in 2030 and then move into 2031 you're into the um the meat of that. Similarly, uh on a
Bayberry Hills project, uh if that was approved next year, um it doesn't kick in till debt service payments start in 2029 and it doesn't um gear up until the later years. But also, you can see what
a huge impact if we're able to finance this with the 0% interest that comes from the SRF program. And um there are also some of the loan forgiveness and the um the waterways fund that that we
use that contributes um 25% to that. So similarly with all of the projects um they they need to be staggered out. U the impacts don't come immediate. So when we start looking at
some of these major impacts that occurs when more than two of these projects is in its full debt. And as you can see it it's not till we get to these years here that we're particularly concerned about
20 2035 2036 that we begin to see the multiple projects lining up. And that's what we gear um our planning efforts toward. And so I I thank Jennifer. I mean um without her expertise, you know,
the the financial planning wouldn't take place and she could have this um controller as easy as I could right now. This is um all the work that um she's poured into this to help us lay out the the debt service analysis. Now um I want to show the previous chart in a
graphical format that includes the entire range from 2026 to 2000 2064 and what that looks like graphically represented in terms of an analysis of
the projected uh town's debt service. And there's a a a couple of issues that really are um a little bit striking in terms of where we are and where we need to be. Um the first one being that uh
you know Yarmouth is a very unique town with unique challenges and a history of how we got to where we are today and where we need to go. The first issue that doesn't make things necessarily easy for the town is the fact that
our recent history shows the town has chosen to make an attempt to reduce the spending on all of our community facilities, these buildings, until such time as we figured out how to move forward with the
wastewater project. And uh it's was a situation that when when that project came up in 2012 and was rejected by voters, the town knew that it was still the largest single capital improvement public works project in the history of
the town and it wasn't resolved. And I think there was a conscious effort at that time to take a lot of these projects that um were known about that that were not moved forward in order to preserve the ability to take on debt and
address that wastewater project. So what you'd normally see in a similarlyssized community is a level of community facility investment that would have a baseline maybe in this range that would
be fairly constant. In the normal type of financial planning exercise, you would have a situation where the way the bonds are structured, they start higher and go lower over time. in
had we continued to invest in this time frame, um we would number one have some projects that were completed, but more importantly, we would have debt that was declining and we would be able to replace debt in such a manner as to try
to have level debt going across. But that's a luxury we don't have. The blue represents here and it starts in FY26 with the existing debt and we have very low existing debt with the exception of
the middle school which was time to replace the high school and um here it shows we've been able to take on hang on let's go back if we can we've been able to to take on the DPW facility which
shows in the blue. And what we need to do is to come up with a plan rather than replacing debt because we don't have any debt to replace. We need to ramp up to a level that that meets the town needs and
from there have a declining debt strategy. So it shows an extra challenge that we have to the town. How do you plan to meet all of these needs without a lot of existing debt now and
and make it so that the town's needs are met over time? And and that in and of itself is really the critical financial planning tool that goes handinhand with the capital improvement program. When
they identify these projects, then we kick in and try to develop some strategies. and then the projects. Right now, keep in mind when when you have this capital budgeting, the only part of it that's approved is
the first year. So, the the real I guess strength of the capital program is it projects out these future needs and seeks to provide some information that we can use to develop future strategies.
Is this program going to move forward? our projects going to be um addressed. And so as we do that to try to come up with strategies uh it's important to look at as we just showed in the last slide. Yarmouth has very unique needs.
So, we need to have strong financial goals and and policies that are financially sound, but we need to do them um in a way that analyzes the uniqueness of the town of Yarmouth and the structure of our town on how we need
to move forward. And in in doing that, I put this chart up because it shows a little bit of the type of things we need to look at that this is um an analysis that shows the structure of some of
Yarmath's property tax key statistics u benchmarked in the context of um our other neighbors here on on Cape Cod. And I know it's a little difficult to see, but you know, we've got the towns of Bourne all the
way down at the end, we have Yarmouth. And there's a couple of key statistics that I just want to go over with you that this chart really shows that I think um are very unique to Yarmouth and provide the basis that we need to consider uh to analyze some of these
some of these capital needs. So the the first key statistics, if you take a look at this column here shows the average single family value in all of these communities. And it's fascinating to me to see that on Cape Cod, it's by quite a
margin um the town of Viamath has the lowest average single family value um at >> home value >> single family home >> value >> value. Excuse me. Thank you. single. We're talking about the the the value of
the average single family home. >> Your home is missing. I get it. >> Property. See, it's single family. >> I wanted to insert that >> clarity sake. >> Absolutely. So, I mean, take a look at at um you know, some of the towns. It's interesting. Uh Chadam, you know, you
what are the differences in the home values between Chadam and and Yarmath? And at 1,674, um it's, you know, their their average single family home is is over twice what the average is Yarmouth is. And and you
know, you wouldn't expect to see um such a disparity, but um but it's there. So um we have to take into account that we have much lower values um than than some of the other communities that we're
dealing with. uh somewhat on um the side that gives us a little hope is that along with the lower single family home values um it it also
makes our the average single family home tax bill is one of the lowest on the Cape. We come in at um 4,800 4,818 and um if you look at u you know most of
the other Cape Towns have an average tax bill much higher than than we have and and the state average we didn't put in here but the state average is is much higher as as well. And so, um, at least folks can take some, um, comfort from
the fact that generally our single family tax bills, um, are fairly low. But the other critical aspect of this that has to be figured in, although the single family tax bill is is relatively
low, when when you begin to look at um the income, right, of the community measured per capita, um it really comes into focus that Yarmouth is by far um
the lowest income community >> at the income per capita in our community is $44,84 and um not too far off from a couple of the communities like like Bourne is a lower
income community and um you east as well but but we're we're the lowest by you know quite a little bit. So the the critical the critical point is that our approach
needs to factor in the relatively low income and the low values of the property um into the town. And and what that really means for us is is clearly if we develop any strategies
to move forward with these projects, we need to try to work to protect the interests of what is a large segment in our community of homeowners >> with fairly low income and fairly low
property values so that they are protected from the growth in the property tax. and and right now we're hanging um when you when you look at the statistics of our average tax bill as a percentage of income, we're about middle of the pack. So, we're not the lowest
and we're not the highest, but but we need to retain that middle of the pack status and not all of a sudden have a situation where with with low incomes, you can um create a situation where people are overburdened
as property tax as a pretend percentage of their income because keep in mind that the property tax is the most regressive form of tax. So that you know people generally pay a higher percentage of of that tax the lower your income
which is different right than the income tax which is a graduated tax which people pay more the higher income they have. So our system is a little bit on its head and all of your financial planning needs to take into account these lower income residents because
we're talking about the impact of community facilities on the on the property taxes. So with all of this information, it, you know, it's a little, you know, difficult to to kind of find some ground, but um there are some potential strategies that we can
point to that we can look to. I want to kind of move, if I can get this to work. Let's see. >> And if we can get some people from Provincetown to move to Yarmath would be great, too. I want to show this other chart. Now, I'm not going to jump
into the absolute weeds of all of these different numbers, but the reason that I put this chart up here is to just recall the meeting that we had on September 9, 2025,
when the board of assessors were in to present the the tax rate classification hearing. when when the board voted to approve the town's tax rate, they presented this chart and it was really a hypothetical analysis
that showed what is called a residential exemption. And this this sheet they had in your packet and we we talked about it briefly, but what I'd like to do is bring this this sheet back up and talk a
little bit about this in terms of what we're facing for um capital needs here in the town. The residential exemption is a tool available to local communities and a number of Cape Towns um have
implemented this which shifts the burden of the property tax from single family homeowners um that are year-round residents to um single
family properties that are seasonal and also single family properties of high value. So, it is specifically geared towards providing some property tax relief for lowincome
yearround residents. And what this chart essentially shows here is that somewhere in our average, if you did a 10%, you're allowed to go, I think, up to 35%. Um but a 10% um would would save
people in this 239 sort of sort of range. Let's take a look at this is the second part of the chart that the board of assessors provided to you. If you adopted a residential exemption at 20%.
You could essentially when you're hitting in the money range of the average single family home, right, tax bill for the town of Yarmouth, you're you're saving people maybe $400. But granted, when you get up to the
higher values, there is an additional amount. >> Oops. >> Let's get back to where we were. Nobody panic. >> Yeah, we want to save that money. Get back to the >> All right. So, what I'll do is for this point. I think this this residential
exemption has been has been discussed but never brought into the context of our overall town financial planning. And um I'd like to do that now to just demonstrate what the relationship would be. I've provided for
you an example of the residential exemption impact on our community facilities improvement for the average Yarmouth taxpayer that um is based on the the chart that that we showed. Now I
want to go back to a second on this chart what what we talked about because of the um principles of it takes a while to ramp up these projects. If you take a look at the property tax impact, the
highest impact of our overall planning process comes right here. That falls in in FY 2037. So what this chart does is it starts with the highest property impact if you
put all of these projects together. And when you do that, on the chart that I called your attention to that that has the property tax impact of the overall program, what it shows you is that the combined
property tax impact of all of these five projects that we've outlined in the 10-year plan is about almost six cents on the tax rate. So, it's worth $5.72 or or.572
per 1,000 of valuation. And that's just tax rate jargon. What that means to us human beings is that on that average tax bill, the cost to the average taxpayer
in $225, right? We didn't the the all of these numbers would have to be escalated to $237, but the relationships remain the same. So using $225, the cost to average taxpayers of that total program, this
0.572 per thousand is $38,922. So you adopt all of these programs, the tax bill for an average taxpayer is going to go up $389. Now, when you take the average taxpayer savings, when we just showed those two
examples, and and again, you know, you can go higher, but we want to stay in a more conservative range at a 10% residential exemption would shift the average taxpayer, that's a year- round taxpayer, would shift tax
burden away from them by lowering their valuation by the tax bill would go down 30 $16.20, which would mean you'd be able to get all of these projects. And might throw in some Ginsu knives
for a total of the difference. Let's go back. The difference of the 389 to the 306. So about $83 >> of an increase in taxes to pay for all all of those projects. Now, if you went
further and did a a 20% resident res residential exemption, that would shift the tax burden away from that average taxpayer a total of $47283. And it illustrates a way that you could
potentially move forward with some or all of these projects, but also protect the yearround lower income, lower value property taxpayer. Now granted, this does not make this money go away. It simply
shifts it to seasonal properties and higher value properties. So someone winds up paying the $36. I don't think that was me, but that that was my last slide. Anyways, I think the um
>> projector >> projector shut down. >> Blew the projector on that one. >> Okay. >> So, >> you need $300 for a new projector. >> Now, at at this point in the in the process, you know, I want to say clearly
that we're not looking to make decisions on the next 10 years all at once. and the the way this is set up, we have a few years till we get to this you know the years that these projects are going
to go forward. But the first one comes up this year which is the library which shows the the property tax you know impacts of that you know associated with the grant and and it all works together. But
what I am saying is is that um there are potential strategies that we can discuss um at the policy level with the leadership of our financial team and Jen Mullen who's done tremendous work on on all of this, the board of assessors um
and our assessing staff to lay out potentially some strategies to get through this in a way that protects the the local taxpayers. And um again, this is long-term financial planning, so there's nothing this
evening that requires a vote. But I would say that we have some important next steps. What we'd like to do is engage um with our financial team, our assessors, the um capital team, finance to lay out and determine if some of these
strategies may be pathways to how we achieve that ramp up and and begin to meet some of these needs. So, I I guess that's how the financial planning works together with the CIP team and and that's kind of where we're at today. So,
I would turn it over to you guys. >> Sounds good. >> Um, a lot to think about, Bob. Um, >> isn't it? >> Let's go to each of our individual select board for um any of their questions and comments. Starting with Mark.
>> Sure. Thank you. Um, first of all, I want to um thank the uh the capital committee for the work that it has done for us each year. Um, uh, we're just incredibly impressed with, uh, the level of effort and the
work that you put into this and then being able to present it in a way that makes it easy to understand and, uh, it seems like each year you're getting better and better at it. So, once again, thank you for all of your great work. Um,
and and and your work is basically to start the process. So, I'm I'm not particularly interested in going in the weeds on some of the capital items that you've identified for a town meeting. We'll have plenty of time to discuss those later on. What I'd like to do is focus my comments principally on uh the
the presentation of the town administrator. And uh I I just want to commend you, Bob. This is something that we have talked about as a board having to do and to initiate uh for quite some time. and uh uh and it's it's obvious we have a town administrator that's very
good at handling and guiding us in terms of how to wrestle with these questions. So I I really appreciate all the time and effort that you've put into this. It's clear that this is sort of a we go through this in an iterative process. you know, this is an ongoing
analysis and review and um and what he's laid out, what what Bob has laid out to us tonight is a variety of scenarios. >> Um what the scenarios that worry me um that we have to deal with because we're sort
of making assumptions that there are things going on in the world that we can continue to count on. And and the reality is is that there are things that at least based on my travels to Washington DC, based on my travels uh you know in Boston at the state house,
um there's a tremendous amount of nervousness about the funding environment that we're in right now. Um, I hear that on a regular basis because the work that I do in addition to teaching at the college, I'm heavily involved in raising funds
for environmental projects on Cape Cod, uh, restoration projects. And so I'm always talking to people in the governor's office, our legislators, others in terms of the prospects for funding for those projects and some others. So I get very nervous about the
state and federal funding climate that we're in right now. Um, as we know, wastewater has been a number one priority for us right now. We've made a huge investment and a huge commitment to that, but the president is trying to zero out the revolving loan
fund program that we depend on to finance wastewater. Um, the House, their version of the budget on wastewater is not much better. All right, they've only made marginal improvements there. So from a wastewater again, our wastewater program is sort of predicated on the
assumption that the federal government will continue to be able to honor uh the commitments that we've basically been relying upon in terms of going forward with that project. If those dollars go, um we have some tough decisions to make
and we may end up having to finance the costs on our own dime. So that changes that changes again the the plan and that's one of the reasons why we have to be prepared to adapt. Conditions will change, things will change and we just
need to be prepared for that. Um and at the state level quite frankly they're almost at least the impressions that I get from legislators is that they're sort of holding back waiting to hear and find out what the federal government's going to do. We
know we're going to take huge hits on Medicaid at the state level and but we don't know yet how that translates in terms of what will happen or could happen with the state budget. But there's there's a there's a high degree of uncertainty at the federal level and
at the state level in terms of commitments that we rely on in terms of these kinds of projects. So I'm I'm very concerned about that. Um my question for uh Jen is when we
look at adding a significant let's let's assume just for the sake of conversation we're going to do all of these the residents want it. Uh we we're we're we go to town meeting. We're looking at full steam ahead on all of these items. What does that do to our um bonding
situation? our tr our our pursuit of a AAA bond rating because quite frankly we're going to go from 1 million to 7 million annually in debt service and that that's a pretty big jump. >> Yes, good evening. Um it's a good
question. Right now the um $27 million wastewater project does take up some of our um bonding ceiling if you will. Um normally the um bond rating agencies if it's exempt debt um because the voters have voted for that and they've voted to
um raise the funds over Proposition 2 and a half. So they're you know they're they're all in. They said you know we're going to we want you to raise our tax rate and it doesn't the ceiling doesn't really affect this because it's your um your levy ceiling so high. So you do
always have a lot of bonding capacity, although that 207 does have some of it in there. Um, but you know, the bond rating agencies have been changing over the last few years and they look at things differently. Um, and they do look at the overall debt.
So I really can't say what the it would be the effect on um I would expect to maintain a double A plus bond rating. I don't think our bond rating would go down and you wouldn't be voting these projects. Um, you know, you right away u
but it wouldn't really have much of an effect because it is excluded from Proposition 2 and a half. Does that answer your question? Does >> Okay. You're welcome. >> Answer is we don't know. >> Thank you. the um I'm glad you pointed out also
information about the the income here in in Yarmouth. Bob, I think that's it's important to note that uh you know as as as a community we're on the lower end and looking at median family income um uh household income, we tend to be on
the poor side in terms of our overall average. And I think that's that's obviously a factor. The thing that I think we need to be thinking about as a board and going forward is is um you know how do we engage the public in this conversation because these are obviously very very important decisions for us but
they're also quite frankly important. It's an important area of community involvement public involvement uh getting our residents aware of the the financial challenges facing the town. I was sort of making a stab at it when we were debating, not debating, but discussing the local comprehensive plan
that, you know, as a community as we grow, you know, we have to look at the costs of growth and the cost costs of development. And um there was a time when the there was a need to sort of factor those into our local comprehensive plan. But um Bob and the
rest of the team assured us that we could start dealing with this now in a separate exercise. And and I'm glad we're finally getting into it. Um, I just want everyone to know I'm just very very nervous about the next few years in terms of all the uncertainties both in Washington and up at the state house.
And so I'm nervous on all of these projects. I'm nervous about where we stand with wastewater. I'm very concerned about the library. I'm concerned about um fire station and even schools. So I take a very cautious approach to all of this. But I think this is a healthy first step this
exercise and I'm glad we're starting this conversation now. It's It's long overdue. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mark. Uh Joyce, >> well, I don't have Mark's level of understanding of the uh financial side
of this, but I was sitting here thinking um that one of the the consequences of going to a residential exemption might make our community a lot less attractive to people who just want to buy a house and make it an Airbnb. Um, and some of
that's under the radar and we would never know. Um, it might it might drive them to Dennis or to some other town >> because I I also am worried about um people affording housing here. So, I think it's good to keep in mind the
income level and and uh figure out strategies to to work around not burdening the poorest people. Uh, Liz, >> thank you. And wow, what a body of work.
Thank you. Um, I um notice, of course, one of the the big notes that I would make is that the muck of course is not on this charting at all at this point. We're hoping that it would be a private partners, private company that would um
carry the weight on that, but I think we need to be kind of aware of that too. was something we have to deal with because we can't keep paying to maintain Madaki's school either. So, at any rate, um I wondered if we could go back to the there's a slide. I don't know if we can.
The data review by funding um source for the 10-year plan. I had a question on that. I liked that slide. That was my favorite slide to to use as a summary of where we're at. I think that that one's it. I blink.
Yes. So, I know most people can't see that very well, but I did notice that um there's a a stabilization fund that we've been paying a little bit of attention to, and I see that there's an appropriation on the um capital
stabilization. Is that what I think it is, that you're you're making an effort to maintain that stabilization fund? Hello again. So I just want to point out that when we put the capital together this year or the committee put the
capital together this year the way that um the process is that department heads put in this the CIP and I'm not sure is that 2 million250 or is it okay so
really what um some departments did and we review this every year they just picked a funding source of the capital stabilization fund and we need to review it year by year. Um, but if you recall last year at town meeting, we did transfer some money into the capital
stabilization fund because we do want to start, you know, making that um you're earning more interest on that. Exactly. Um, I'm not sure what the the projects are in 2028, but the the thought is to
um keep putting money in in there >> for that reason. And there's also line item grant other 3,787,000. >> Um part of the grants um when the capital state when we started using the easycip
um everything was entered. So if we're paying something for a grant doesn't necessarily have to go to town meeting. Um I know part of that 3 million is a grant that we're looking at um right now. I think is a Parker's River Landing. They just were approved 500,000 from CPC.
>> Okay. >> Um and so we wanted to show the full project which would be over 2 million. And so um doesn't necessarily have to go to town meeting. We'll apply for the grant. The Parkers River grant though um is um I I wouldn't say that we've
received it, but because they paid for design, I think it's the Seapport that we're applying to there. you know, most of the time they'll definitely roll that over into the construction and so we'll be putting that grant in in the in the spring, I believe. >> Okay. And then the sent acceptage
enterprise, I see we start to see it as a funding source. That's hookups million. >> I'm not sure. I know that they're doing some capital over there, but I'm not sure what the septic enterprise is. >> I mean, what that million is. >> Okay.
>> Um, and then the water enterprise. um going out that that starts at an 809,000 and then it goes up to 2,800. What what that's not the sewer. Well, I will say some of the um sore well the
sore project as you know they're laying the the um the connection system, you know, the sore pipe which goes lower than and then they're laying water manes at the same time. Yeah. >> And so there should be something in there for maybe phase two.
>> Okay. Um, and then the other is that there are some other water main projects that the water department has been looking at. I know that they're looking at water mane down 6A. There's um and and so yes, that would um be in there as well. >> Okay. And I know we're going to get into
the details more when we look at the individual budget with the department. So I just want to say thank you. This is uh it's great to have the look forward. I think it's critical and I'm so glad that the school district is
participating now in that as well. So those are my questions and then just thank you. >> Thank you Liz. You can stay right there Jennifer if you don't because I think some of what I'm going to talk about first want to say thank you very much. Thank you
very much to capital improvement. That's a lot of hard work. um what you've been able to put together with the new way that the formatting. I know Bill started it and we've got Amy here to to continue
on for us and with Bob. Uh the projections are are much clearer for us and I think that people are feeling more confident that what is coming up for capital are truly needed projects. you know that that have been rated and m you
know like the individual sheets that uh Bob was talking about uh make a tremendous difference. Um and thank you but I'd like to mostly talk about what Bob was talking about and that's why I'm keeping you up there. Jennifer,
>> like Mark, I am not just nervous. I am scared to death about what's going to happen with our funding sources both from uh the federal government and from the state government. We've made a commitment of $27 million to our
wastewater. And if we find in those projections, we we will relying very heavily on those federal and state uh monies. And if suddenly we're not going to be getting those, then we're going to have to find alternative
um sources for that funding in order to make it happen. Right. >> Um so if you want to talk about what's already been voted, the $27 million wastewater. Um so that started on the uh 2023 IUP and it's $50 million a year.
And so we've been working for right now we're in so we have four $50 million loans and I'm going to get to the answer to your question. I'm just laying it out of of to leave some of this fear on the 207.
So um we borrow $50 million increments. We've already spent the first 50 million. We're in the second 50 million right now. The first 50 million has gone to the trust to to bond because they bond and then we start paying principal on that. We have we are getting the
principal forgiveness. There hasn't been a note to the principal forgiveness. Um we're working with the clean water protection fund. Um as far as I know they're still funding that 25% that that is the main principal forgiveness in the 207 because they're going to fund 25%.
They're taking in the money from the portion of the short-term rental, the state, the trust, if you will. Um, we're in a tier 2 community. That's around 6.6 principal forgiveness. So, right now, we're in the second 50 million. And I
expect that we will still get that principal forgiveness. Now, that's half of the the 250 millions be about half of it. So, I'm just alleviating the fear. I don't know what the future brings, but I do know that the trust has committed to
fund that 207 million at 0%. And when you think about it, just the 0% is a huge reduction other than if you were going to if we were going out to market ourselves, that would be at 4%. So, you're saving millions and millions and
millions of dollars at the 0%. I don't see right now the state not voting that. Um they do they don't like to say right away, okay, we're going to vote the 0%. They wait till they actually bond and then the board will vote the 0%. But I just wanted to leave alleviate your fear
a little bit on the 207 for that portion of it. >> Okay. >> Can I just Yeah, go ahead. >> I think I think it's good to have this conversation about wastewater. I represent Yarmouth on the Capeen Islands Water Protection Fund Board and we've been we as a board are very concerned
about where things are going because quite frankly both the funding that's provided there is connected to the SRF. So my hope is is that Yarmouth can continue to take advantage of the Cape
Islands Water Protection Fund for subsequent phases and more work. And uh but if there's an impact on the SRF, it has a direct impact on uh the Cape and Islands Water Protection Fund because in order to be qualified for the Cape
Islands Water Protection Fund funding, you need to be on the on that part of the intended use plan and eligible for SRF funding. And if you and securing SRF funding so there is a relationship, but it's not not for the 27 million that
we've already been committed to. It's going to be the concern for me at least is for the subsequent phases and the subsequent commitments. One of the things that this town has done a great job on is coming up with a very creative financing plan for phase one, the 27
million. A lot of work went into that by um by several select boards. Um this is there's been a huge runup to that. Uh we've been be able to create we've been able to create a revenue stream, but here's the deal. We don't have any new
revenue streams >> to finance phases 2, three, four, five, and the rest. That's the thing. We're going to become more dependent on some of these other sources to to the extent that they're available for us to help finance this. But uh our debt service at
the moment unless we can come up with re other revenue streams which we have yet to identify um we're going to have to start looking at the tax rate >> and property taxes and we have been it's been a policy of this board to avoid
putting wastewater on the backs of um property taxpayers. So we have yet to figure out the financial game plan for phases 2 to what? Nine. >> 2 to nine. So 2 to nine. We have not yet
figured out the financial plan for that. All right. if we're forced because of cuts in federal funding uh to implement uh the phases without any other revenue streams or some of the other sources that we've been relying upon, we're
going to be having no other place to look but property taxes. So, all I'm saying is is that that's where I'm coming from. It's it's how we finance future commitments, future phases. We're locked into the wastewater program. We've made a commitment. We've got a
plan. We've gotten town meeting to to to pay for phase phase one and the voters have been incredibly supportive of that. The big question is going to be how do we with the up with the funding situation becoming more complicated. How do we figure out a way to fund phases
two through nine? >> May I just say one thing too to add is we're certainly not alone. This is a capewide confrontation. So, >> well, it's a it's if I could just add, it's a na it's a national problem. But >> yeah, but I do think that it's important for us to realize that it's just not
it's not just Yarmouth. It's so that the the realities of this are being it's it's not a small town going help, it's a big issue. >> Sorry. >> Oh, I I just wonder if there isn't like a tiny income stream, it would be
nowhere near enough for a phase. Um, if people were able to get an assessment of what their hookup fee would be, even if they were in future phases, if homeowners could just pay that, like pay
it forward, um, if if the town could figure out a way to accept that and use it as as, you know, very small partial funding of all the big expenses coming for sewing. Um, Madam Chair, um, I think that would
be a nice arrangement to work out, but it doesn't have any impact whatsoever on any of this that we've been talking about or what we're looking at going ahead. Those are costs that are hookup costs are largely on the homeowner to begin with. They're not we don't have to come up with the financing for them to
do that. MU homeowners are using the county's aquaund program to help co cover the cost of financing sewer hookups, but there's no reason why we couldn't find some other way to be helpful to people or create another mechanism. You >> you don't think it would help to have um
people sign up and give the money in advance toward the sewer project >> years before they were expected to? >> Is that what you're talking about? A fund that's earning interest. I would rely on Jennifer to use it the best way.
>> We have been preunding um and we've been putting it into a wastewater stabilization fund where we earned earn a market rate which would be more than bank interest. So we've been trying to really preund that the hookup fees. I'm not quite sure what you're asking, but
when a homeowner hooks up to the sewer, it's upon them to pay that. They have to design it and then hook and pay to hook that up to the connection that goes down the street. And so that's on them. It doesn't go through the town. It's nothing that we pay. It's something that
they have to pay in order to hook up. >> I see. So the money for that, this is what I I wasn't getting, doesn't really go to the town. It goes to, you know, someone who puts it in. >> Exactly. They pay the contractors directly. >> Okay.
>> Jennifer, you talked about um the short-term rentals. What was the income that we took in for the previous year on short-term rentals? >> Um I don't have that in front of me. I I really I don't know. I'm sorry. I It
should be You know where it is? We send out a report every month the revenue trending and everything's in there for like the last five years. I just don't know what we took in for the short-term rent. I just don't have it off the top of my head. >> Okay. >> Because it gets split. So 25% goes into
the general fund and I think it's 75% gets put. I will tell you for the wastewater the projection I think is about 1.4 million a year from short-term rentals to go into the wastewater stabilization fund. >> Okay. And you're feeling comfortable
with that number? >> The one >> right now? Um, you know, we did get the revenue trending report and we do have some positive news on the on the rentals. However, sometimes the state, you know, we get a nice little bump in a quarter and then the next quarter it kind of goes down. It's like a timing
issue. So, um, you know, it's really hard to tell with your estimated receipts. I tend to look more around April is a really good indication of what's happened the last seven or eight months. But when you're looking in November, it's really kind of
hard to tell. I mean, when I when we put the revenue trending report out, um I think it was in Octo and we had put a note in the email late giving us our um our state aid, you know, the that money and um you know, it
it filters through them. So, it's sometimes it's hard it's hard to to tell. >> Okay. um what is you know like when we look at all these projects that
Bob is talking about that are on the horizon and we're looking at bonding which predominantly that and grants I'm assuming are going to be the ways to fund those if I'm correct. So when you're looking at bonding, you know, like your mortgage payments, you you've
only got so much capacity and looking at what Bob's talking about, I mean, particularly when we get to 2037 and we're looking at um the millions at that point, aren't we really, if we went
ahead, let's just say we did all these projects, aren't we really going beyond our funding capacity? Um when you say funding capacity I guess the way I the bonding >> how many bonds you know like when we go to the bank and say please may I have
>> well remember too by 2037 we will have paid off some of that 207 million which really the 207 million comes to like 145 with the principal forgiveness right so as that goes down that will go down um I think the way that I've always looked at
it is um you know this is a plan and it's it does look overwhelming because we've put all these projects in there and then we gave you a plan and said this is what we're looking at. But plans change. You know, once you vote a project, it takes time to get the design
done um the con, you know, construction started and so it doesn't hit the tax rate right away. So, at any given time that that can change. I mean, this goes out to like 2064. So I don't think it's going to go over our bonding capacity um
because our capacity is big and remember we're going to be paying off the bonds. We structure this in such a way is that the um interest declines over time which creates a window or a capacity to maybe put in you know additional projects and you know and our values you know when
you think about it too cuz your bonding capacity has to do with the values of the town and so that they'll probably you know in 2037 I'm sure they'll be higher than what they are right now. Um and again plans again this is just a plan just to show you and every year
when you look at this and you put this on the warrant to go to town meeting you have a robust discussion about this capital facility that we want to do or we don't want to do. I've always kind of I've looked at it as not can what can we afford but what are the taxpayers
willing to pay and the priority of what they're willing to pay. And so we just laid it out that can change um you know it's it's it's the beginning you know those bar graphs are going to change you know a lot of this is going to change it puts us in and what it does
too is it gives us the control of the borrowing capacity if you're going to do any type of capital facility plan or any type of planning you need to have a debt program and you need to be able to manage your debt if you're going to manage your when you manage your debt you're able to incorporate other
projects you know where a year where um you might have a huge bar graph that goes down, you can put in a capital exclusion, but you're managing you. What you're doing is you're getting a level of comfortability from the community of what they're willing to pay. You keep that debt at that level and you put in
new projects. It's going to take you a while to get there cuz as you can see we we have a very low debt payment now but this is just the beginning of the conversation and it's not I don't think it's meant to like scare anybody but this is how we would put something like this together and this is what people
are talking about you know this is what we're looking at you know >> Bob going back to what you showed for projects that's really not all the different capital projects that that would be coming up for the town I I I look for instance at this building right
here that we're in town hall, you know, that I I see that we're going to be needing expansion or or or new building and that isn't even factored into this yet. >> Right. So, what we're saying is we're we we're not based on everything that's
going on right now, we're not planning to do a town hall. Um we're, you know, full here at town hall. Um we're potentially if we do do a library, you know, that could impact us by having some additional meeting space across the
street. Um and the the idea would be is that if that buys us so that we don't need a new town hall for 10 years, right? Then we could we could implement some of this this other stuff. So, um largely what we're focusing on is the community facilities we know we'll need
in the next 10 years. But um think town hall. Um you could redo the senior center at at some time. Um there's you know also things that we've identified you know ball fields and recreation that again we're trying to work with um the
Madakis that if we did a public private partnership to increase the number of fields that we could have programming on that might take our actual town investment in new fields put that out 10 years think you know. So we do we are going to have a ton of other needs but
what we tried to do is get the major buildings we know we need within the next 10 years but it's probably not exhaustive you know other things could come up you like within five years right you could say well you know we changed our mind we we we want to do this and so
now the 10year plan you know would shift >> well I know that can always happen I mean we could have a boiler that blows up tomorrow and changes what buildings need to be done. I understand that part. Um, but there is an awful lot of things
to think about >> and for myself personally as a member of this board, I'm thinking of the impact that that my decisions now are going to make on the future of this
town and what in the end is going to be within the best interest of the people that live in this town and what is really going to be the affordability for the people in this town. I mean, those are two things that are kind of important to me.
>> Thank you. Any other discussion? >> Can I just add a footnote to this? Um, I just want to call to the board's attention a recent report from the Mass Municipal Association and uh, it looks at uh, what municipalities across the Commonwealth are facing in terms of
added costs and um, and changes in terms of state financial assistance. And essentially um the the the the headline and the stories coming out regarding this Mass Municipal Association report suggest that um all communities in the
Commonwealth are facing a fairly significant financial crisis or crunch. And uh I'm happy to make sure that if you don't have a copy of that report, I can send it to you. It's easy to be find on the MASS Municipal Association website, but it was just released uh a
few weeks ago and um we've been discussing it u you know among other se other associations and other groups as as you know I'm the president of the uh Cape Islands Municipal Leaders Association and we've had some discussion about this and we anticipate
putting it on our agenda for an upcoming meeting. So FYI, >> I I would also query how much of this um is related to our current uh administration in Washington, which is
if if there were a change in administration, would there be some relief? >> The the with respect to the Mass Municipal Association report, Madam Chair, um the Thank you. Yes, you noticed I needed some more chocolate >> to keep to keep me going here. Um the
the analysis was not necessarily focused on what's happening in Washington DC. It's largely trends that haven't improved at all. For example, Yarmouth, as you know, when we look at our budget and our revenue situation, we get very little state aid. >> Um but there are other communities that
are seeing declines in their state aid. Our state aid has sort of tended to be relatively flat. Is that correct? Yeah, that's correct. >> Yeah. And uh the good thing for that is that we're we're not losing revenue that we, you know, and have to deal with planning and and picking up the slack on that. The reality is is though that on
the Cape, we've been pretty much on the uh short end of the stick when it comes to uh getting state aid to help offset our operating costs to run the government. Um but this is an analysis looking at basically trends across the Commonwealth. big problem has been decline in aid in a host of areas
involving schools, education and uh and a host of other areas. And the fact of the matter is that under Prop 2 and a half, we can only increase property taxes to a certain amount and or we rely on an override. And what's happening is we're seeing this today. In fact, we've
we've discussed this as a board this year, for example, our personnel costs, health care costs, energy costs. If you look at our costs across the board, they're going up even more significantly over the 2 and a.5%. >> So, what's happening is more and more
communities are having to dig deeper in terms of financing um those expenses and it's it's beginning to catch up. There's very little wiggle room and more communities are going for overrides than ever before. I just would finish with my my I I had
meant and I forgot to to applaud Bob for the um residential exemption bringing that forward and I would encourage this board to to very strongly consider that as something this is a town that while
we have some wonderfully um larger um capital rich pro uh properties we we um do have the facts on that chart. which means that we have the the lesser uh um valued properties and
low incomes. That is the heart and soul of Yarmouth and we need to take care of them. Thanks. >> Well said, Liz. >> Okay. Well, thank you very much. Appreciate all the work. Our next item that we have on the agenda
is for um the discussion uh and vote for the library update and approval to submit the grant application. >> Hi Judy. >> Well, hello. >> No longer wearing your capital budget.
No, no, I gave that one back to Sandy. >> Well, good evening. Um, I'm Judy Connor Tarver and I'm the chair of the library building committee and I want to introduce our members. I'm not sure if we have anybody
online, but I because I can't see that far. Uh, but Tom Pendleton is our vice chair. >> If I could interrupt for one sec. No, you don't have anyone online. >> Okay. Um >> I don't She's not a member. She's not a
member of the machine. >> We're happy you're there, Jane. Uh so Tom Pendleton is the vice chair and he his role is a South Yarmouth Library user. Um Sandy F who just vacated uh is our secretary and she's our link to
capital budget. Susan Brida who's not here tonight. Oh, she's here. Oh, she Hi, Susan. >> is our planning board representative. John Graco is our uh construction industry
representative. Vicky Janitorio Janetto Janetto, I'm sorry, Vicki um is our West Yarmouth library user and Dorcas is our um selectboard rep. We also have uh ad hoc
folks Mindy Harrington who's the youth services director at the library, Joseph Lereck who's the circulation director and David Aronson the library director over there. Uh so we have a very active committee. You can see we came in force.
Uh, and our purpose tonight is just to update you as far as the submission to the Massachusetts Board of Library Commissioners that's wrapping up. When
we were here before in early October, uh, we were getting a little bit nervous about meeting our deadline, but we're there. So, in the interim, we have presented to the planning board and got a lot. I'm sorry I didn't
introduce Tim. My goodness, he's sitting right next to me. Tim Arnold is from our um owners project management firm, Accenture. And you're sitting right here. Could give me a kick.
>> No, that you I don't think you got introduced either, Judy. >> Oh, yeah. I thought I started there. >> Yeah, I'm I'm good. Uh so we presented to the planning board and uh they were very happy with what we had. But since
then uh the team has worked with site review folks here at town hall. There's been a lot of program discussion with library uh employees and their personnel to incorporate
suggestions, ideas, challenges to try to change a little bit around with the overall building design and we've had an overarching kind of issue with parking and traffic flow. So,
that's all been going on. I I think that's about it. Yeah. Um, in addition, as needed, conversations were happening with Amy and were happening with our
representative at the Massachusetts um, the MBLC. So, I'm going to introduce Matt Oden who's who's here from Ozello. Sorry. And he's going to just give a rundown. It's a very brief presentation. I think you you
have it. Uh yes. But >> we just wanted to carry carry on with uh where we were just to get you there. So, we're not going back. >> Nice to see you guys again. Uh it's been a couple of months since we were here last. Um just before we get into the
slides, I just want to mention uh Judy talked about, you know, pressure around the deadline. We plan to submit in the next week and a half before everybody breaks for the holidays. Uh the submissions are technically due on the 31st, but we're going to get them in
early. Um we're in good shape. We have been working hard with uh the committee, with the library staff, the MBLC, um different agencies in town, and our consultant team to get us where we are.
Um and so we we're in very good shape for submitting. Um we had a productive meeting with Mark Grills, the building commissioner. Um following uh a meeting that we had had a preliminary meeting with the site
plan review committee to talk about the overall site plan uh which you see up on the screen here. Uh this resolved the meeting with Mark resolved questions about how to interpret zoning for parking. Um and I think we've we have
settled on a plan that everybody feels comfortable with. Um it which will be a shared parking lot between the MacArthur building and the library uh on the site of the existing 48 car parking lot for the MacArthur building. We are going to
replicate those 48 spaces and we're going to provide 80 additional spaces for the library. That's using the state guideline uh from the Massachusetts Board of Library Commissioners to determine that parking count for a library of this size. That gets us to
128 spaces. That's the minimum and that's what we're going to submit to the MBLC. We are also designating area for expansion. We think the site can hold up to about 169 spaces. We are going to go in with the minimum amount because the
MBLC holds you to the number of library spaces. So, we want to make sure that we are giving them only what we are obligated to give them. Uh we can always add more but we we're showing them that we can provide the minimum required. Um we have also coordinated this with um
you know representatives Amanda Lima um Matt whose last name I don't remember from the fire department uh some of the other site Thank you Beers. Um some of the other site considerations fire access we have a couple of fire uh
lanes. One on the northeast corner of the building that acts is accessed from Route 28 uh up in the top right corner of the screen. another one that comes in along the south side of uh the proposed library between the MacArthur building
and the library. Um and from those two places, we can get to everywhere we need with hoses around the building. So, we feel like we're in pretty good shape um at a schematic level with the site plan. Similarly, we've been developing the building plan again with a lot of back
and forth between staff, MBLC, um, and our internal team to get, uh, make sure that we're accommodating all of the required shelving for the collections, the required seat counts, getting all of the adjacencies um, properly
uh, resolved, and getting the square footage to a place where we are feeling like this is at this level about as efficient as we can make it. We are now at about a 25,000 square foot building. Um that includes uh the the program. It
also has incorporated all of the we've had back and forth with our consultants about mechanical equipment. Um we're still evaluating different systems. This will be an all electric building, fossil fuel free. We don't yet know what the mechanical system will be and so we're
trying to provide space to cover a range of options from uh air cooled to air water systems to geothermal systems all electric but uh different space requirements. So this allows us some flexibility in terms of uh determining
ultimately what what uh system we'll move forward with. And then just updating you. These are views that you have seen before, but we've continued to develop them as the planning has tightened up as we've addressed some of the site uh considerations. So this is an existing
view of the aerial of the site. This is the proposed view with the new library. Um expanded parking. Uh and you're seeing here the this is the fire access lane on the south side of the building.
fire access on the the northeast corner. The main wing of the building is under a single roof, adults and community uh with the children and teen wing uh running east west. Uh access from
parking is via this covered entry porch uh in the southern end of the building. And then some views uh view approaching the building from parking. There's a covered entry porch that gets you from drop off uh to the front door. We're seeing the community wing on the right
with a 120 seat community meeting room um at this end of the building. The wing to the left is the youth services wing. What I'm pointing at here. There we go. Uh moving closer to the building. This is uh the approach as
you're walking along the entry porch towards the front entrance. Uh you're seeing into the lobby. This is now as you've entered the building into the lobby. As you can see, we're um we're conceiving of this as a mass timber framed building for
um a lot of reasons. Partly um sustainability, uh economy of of or speed of um construction. There are a lot of great benefits. It's also a material you can leave exposed. You don't have to cover it up. And so it brings a kind of natural warmth to the
interior. >> Um very open light fil. We're trying to uh bring in as much natural light as we can reduce dependency on artificial lighting. Uh this building as you know is sort of oriented around the wooded
center of the site which will remain and that really becomes an amenity for this public building. So all of the the public spaces face out onto that central wooded area. Um, moving into the children's wing,
this is a view from the uh the staff desk looking into the space. Um, high ceilings, uh, expansive windows, uh, plenty of natural light and views. Uh there's community or um I'm sorry,
children's program space just to the left. Uh view of the adult wing. This is at the at the opposite end of the wing closest to to 28 looking out towards that central landscape. And then oops and then a view from 28.
Um looking towards the building. Obviously the that wooded central area is a a kind of veil between the heavily traffked road and the the library. So it helps create a a kind of sanctuary in there with um outdoor reading areas,
outdoor terraces and porches. We have a pedestrian connection uh bridge connection that gets you from 28 along that uh the alongside the adult wing that gets you all the way back to the central lobby. So whether you're coming
from parking or coming from the street, you're arriving at the same place um supervised by the main circulation desk. Uh an evening view of that same vantage point. And then this is on the kind of center wooded side looking up towards
the building, the community or the children's wing in the foreground, adult wing in the background. An evening shot of that view as well. And that is where we are. And so we, as I said, we're planning to submit in the
next week and a half. Um, the MBLC will take about a month to review. We will then go through a third party estimating effort with our estimator that'll take us through the month of February. Uh, and at that point, we'll have um pretty
well definfined costs. Even though it's a schematic level, uh there's enough information that we'll be able to get a pretty detailed estimate. Um the good news is that this is a fully funded project through the state. Yarmouth is in the first group of funded libraries.
So assuming that we meet their criteria, which we fully expect that we will uh and assuming a successful town meeting vote in the spring, um we the the money would the grant money would be made available immediately. We would start at that
point a roughly 12-month design process uh with the expectation to wrap up construction documents by summer of 27. >> We'll take any questions. >> Matt, you had one more um slide in our presentation that we got our board
packet that showed the program. >> Uh yes, that slide was up there. Do you want me to go back to that? >> Uh if you would please. I think just so that that one >> kind of just do a quick overview of what
this is showing the interior of the library. >> So it's uh so a a radial plan with a central lobby um entry point is here circulation desk in the middle with good oversight of the three main wings of the
building. the youth services wing, which is children's and teens. Uh the yellow is the adult wing, which is running north south. The red is the community wing. Uh and behind the circulation desk, we've got the staff suite and then
utility spaces, public restrooms. Um it's designed, like all of the MBLC projects, to allow for offers access. So the community wing um can be made available off hours with the rest of the library closed. Uh there
would be a a point here that that you can secure. There's an offers entrance. So you would have access to the 120 seat meeting room um a 600 foot classroom and then all of the ancillary spaces that support that a kitchen public restrooms
etc. >> Okay. And when you say the 600 square f foot um meeting room roughly, what would that you know if people were going to uh reserve that room in the community, how many people could sit in that room?
>> Um it I think it depends on how you set it up with furniture. If it's um you know it it's going to be tables and chairs most likely. So I would say that's probably a 25 30 person room.
>> Yeah. to 30 people. And then the auditorium is 120. >> Auditorium is 120 seats, I believe. >> Okay. And then that has a kitchen with it as well. >> It's a there's a >> a kitchenette um a pantry really. It's
there's no there's no cooking or anything. There's a counter, a sink, a refrigerator. Um it's really a kind of staging area for catered events. Um, and that's directly adjacent to the meeting room here, but also accessible from the public corridor.
>> Okay. Um, I open it up to questions from the board. Uh, starting with you, Mark. >> Sure. Thank you. Um, and thank you again for for being here tonight. Um, do we have a project budget or at least the parameters of a project budget that sort of lay out all the costs?
Okay. So, that's kind of what um Matt was just talking about. Those numbers would be coming for conversations. We've been using kind of this industry standard of $1,000 per square foot. >> So, that's the construction costs. >> Yes. >> So, what about the other costs?
>> Okay. So, do you want to just go over that again? Huh? >> Tim should actually address the budget. Accenture is uh is going to be developing the project budget. It's early, so we don't really have a >> Yeah, there's again, it's at this point,
we like to kind of keep things in percentages of we don't have hard costs yet. We don't have an estimate yet. Soft costs typically come in around 25 to 30% of a construction budget, right? So, if we're assuming $1,000 square foot, 25,000 square foot building, right? I
don't I can't do that kind of math off the top of my head, right? $25 million construction budget, a soft cost budget of around 30% of that. Combining the two >> will give you >> somewhere around 38 $39 million of a total project budget.
>> So we're looking at a total project cost including design fees, site work, contingencies around 3940 million. Is that what No, >> I think it's going to be less than that. 32. >> Yeah. If you apply that that's 32. That's what we've been using.
>> I'm just trying to understand what what what we're looking at. >> Soft costs design everything fully loaded 32 and >> we've been working on with the grant >> was um you know in the the 40 plus range. So um
percent of the total project. >> Yeah. Just in terms of the grant, just so everyone understands the the way the NBLC um the way the grant works is they base it on eligible costs. Roughly 98% of construction costs are
eligible. Um around 50% of soft costs are eligible. So once we have those numbers, we can plug them into the calculator for the grant and figure out what uh of of those eligible costs, you know, what is being funded by the state.
Um they have a funding calculator. There's, you know, the first five million is at this rate, the next five million is at this other rate and so on. That it that rate goes down as the dollar value goes up. And so it's a cumulative effect. It's not like this is
the number and we're going to pay you 40% of that number. It's you plug everything into their calculator. It works out to probably in that 40 45% range. Um that's what we're that's what we're estimating. >> Yeah. I'm just trying I'm just trying to understand what we're dealing with top
to bottom in terms of overall project costs. >> Yeah. and and we don't know because I mean 32 million is a good placeholder but that's using the thousand a square foot benchmark which may or may not prove to be the case when we get it
estimated we'll know more in February by the end of February we'll have a construction cost estimate that we were just talking about even uh doing two independent estimates potentially and reconciling um we will at that point once we have
the construction budget we can extrapolate laid out the the budget numbers that the you know the soft cost numbers to put on top of that contingencies will be percentages based on the construction cost value. So everything is sort of based on those hard numbers. Once we have those hard
numbers, we can put together a pretty good and accurate budget and and also figure out what the NBLC uh reimbursement would be. >> Okay, that's helpful. >> Okay, the other part of the budget is that we have to have fundraising. We
have we're required to have fundraising. So we as a committee can't do that. But we do have some community members who are actively working on that can contacting u local foundations and other kinds of
fundraising folks who can guide them. Uh so that's kind of going on in the background. It's not official. >> That's helpful. That's good to know. What's the expectation? >> I forget. Is it it's a percentage also? Um >> I don't I don't know that there is a
percentage requirement from the state. It's just a requirement that private fundraising partly offset the obligation to the town. >> In the case of >> be a benchmark or a standard or something as an example, East Ham set up a >> a foundation to do this uh when they did
their project that was back in 2016 I think. uh they raised around two a little over $2 million at the time. So that gives you an example that was a $2 million on I think what was at that time an $8 million
uh project. >> So I mean >> does the does the application require any discussion of the private fundraising? >> The application does not. No, it does not. What we are submitting uh in the next week and a half doesn't have any anything in it about fundraising. It
doesn't. So where does the expectation of that come from? >> Well, it's >> it's part of the parameters. >> Yes. >> It's it's it's one of the >> that was part before I got involved. So I I inherited that information. Yes.
>> Typically when >> Me too. >> Listen, I've been doing grants and fundraising for a long long time for a lot of communities and uh heavily involved in the federal government. Typically there's strings attached with any grant application. I'm surprised that there aren't any strings related to
fundraising on this >> in this phase. In this phase, there aren't. So, you're talking about the next phase. >> I'm just talking about >> Yeah, you are. >> Yeah. I'm talking about I'm trying to understand as much as I can all the
various aspects of the project, what the overall budget or projected budget is likely to be, what some of the strings are that are attached to any again, we're at a moment where we're going to be submitting a grant application. Um it's it would be helpful to know some of
the main components of the application and what we're submitting and also if there are obligations on us that we need to basically sustain and and and I'm just trying to understand what the fundraising obligations are. I've heard this a lot that other private and other communities they're expected to raise a
certain amount of money from the community and I just am interested in knowing what the expectations are on us and from who or whom. I I have not heard about any minimum requirements other than the requirement that there be a
fundraising effort, a private fundraising effort. To my knowledge, there is not a minimum amount that needs to be raised. And that has been my experience on other projects, past projects with the NBLC. The grant is different. They've they've changed the way that they structure the grant this
grant round. This is the first grant round under this new structure. So, I don't know if that's changed, but my past experience has been there is not a minimum you have to hit this number. >> Okay, that that's helpful. Um, one of the things that I've more or less have
have talked about when we've when we've had prior library conversations is the importance of public engagement, public involvement. I think as a board, we've sort of made it very clear that we're interested in seeing a plan that has broad-based community support. How would you evaluate or assess the community's
support for what's being presented here tonight? >> The people I talk to are very supportive, but then I have a certain cap on my head. So, I I would not say that's at all scientific. Um that's
totally anecdotal. and um what occurs in other forums, I don't know how widespread those are or just noisy they are. And >> yeah, >> yeah, I I can't really speak to that. Uh
>> well, I >> we have made a lot of effort to, you know, be out there. We brought today our presentation boards with us. They've been in the South Yarmouth Library. They were up for the cookie stroll. that was our target to have them up and they did
generate a lot of um interest just from being there and so I think that's the thing when we had the first set of plans that generated a lot of interest because people can look they can point they can understand and just as you're trying to
understand the intricacies of the funding folks just need to understand where's it going to be what it might it look like what kind of services will this offer for my town? Uh, so I so this we only have one set right now, but
we'll be getting other sets to get those around and then after we have more information like from the estimators and so on. We'll start doing a little more outreach into the community. We have a meeting this week with uh with Lorie
Sullivan here at town hall just to see how we can develop some more programs, whatever she can do for us to help us get the word out. >> We we'll have about two months from the completion of our estimate, which which
we're expecting by the end of February. We'll have about two months then from that point to town meeting, spring town meeting, >> which gives us a number of opportunities to engage the public and to do it >> with real numbers, right? I mean, to answer the questions that you're asking
tonight, >> we will actually have some numbers that we can talk about and and I think it'll be important to >> now how much of the design that's being submitted um how much of it's funible based on or can be modified based on public input in public involvement? It
it sounds like there hasn't been much that that's something that still needs to be done. So the question I'm asking is if the public's engaged in looking at this and and it's obviously a very impressive presentation um you know will the how much how much of the design can
be modified or adjusted based on public input? Well, the design is based on a lot of public input that was done by um >> disruptive construction, if I say. Okay, thank you. >> Creative,
they did a lot of that. They went out into the community. So, that's what this is based on. This is actually the response to the community input. Mhm. >> Uh so once this gets submitted, I I think we don't have a whole ton of
wiggle room because it's already based on data that was collected. >> So you would say that this is embraced by the community. This is a this is a community. This is a project that's embraced by the community. They're comfortable with the design >> by those who sub by those who
participated. those who participated uh and gave suggestions to the prior study have their input represented in this
if they didn't participate in the last things probably then their input is is not represented >> I'm I'm just looking for the answer yeah no when like I said when we've been saying >> participated there it is if you didn't
participate Oh, >> no. I hear what you're saying. When we when we this board made a priority of having a local comprehensive plan and uh the first meeting with the planning board, it was like we need to have a robust public participation, public engagement, public involvement. And what
did they do? They had a robust public engagement and public involvement. The local comprehensive plan, we had more meetings than I think anybody was. I think people were worn out by the time the whole public involvement process was done. But I'll tell you the plan when it
came to town meeting was broadly and almost universally supported. So I think >> it included a library and it included library services. >> I understand that. I think we've said the same. We we've sort of made sort of laid out the same sort of message for this project as well from the very
beginning. I think the challenge has been you've had a lot of curveballs thrown at you at the very beginning and and if there's anything it's sort of cut into your ability to engage the community perhaps to the extent that you would like and that's no fault of yours. I don't want to make it sound like I'm blaming you for anything. I think you
folks have had probably more curveballs thrown at you than maybe any other community or committee in this town. And uh I think you've responded reasonably well. I'm just trying to get a sense that once that effort gears up, to what degree the community is going to have a
real say in what you're doing, or is it basically going to be this is the project, take it or leave it when they get the town meeting? >> So, I'll try to answer that. >> Thank you. >> Best I can, Mark. Um, there are certain things that we won't be able to change
after this gets submitted in the MBLC. We can't reduce parking. We can't change the site. We can't really change the square footage of the building, right? It's this building meets a program. That program, we we've made changes to that program along the way as we've worked
with the state and with the staff to make sure that this is, you know, exactly what everybody is expecting and needs. We've had to make a couple of adjustments to the to the library building program. So, that process ends with this submission. We submit that.
We're saying this is the collection size. This is how many seats we need. This is the square footage that we need for each of these different areas. Those are then pretty much locked in. We can't really make changes to those. >> Um there are this is a very difficult
site as you know. Um we sort of backed into this site given the curveballs that were thrown at us. Um, and so there are limited options in terms of how you can put a library on this site. So all of those are the things that are kind of
fixed at this point. >> But is it a brick building? Is it a woodclad building? Is it um you know how the the the some of the sort of finer grain design decisions. We have a year of design ahead of us right there.
That's a lot of time to think about things, develop things, engage the community. Um, community engagement doesn't stop at town meeting. It doesn't stop at the end of conceptual design. It goes all the way through the, you know, the other phases of design. So, we fully expect that there will be a public
process as part of that next step of 12 months of design. There are also meetings with site plan review. There will I'm sure we'll be back uh to to meet with you guys again. We'll meet with the planning board again. So all of these are option opportunities for the
community to get involved. Um there can also be an outreach program sort of during that time. So that in other words there's there's a lot of opportunity I think to to get people to offer opinions and u but there are certain things that are fixed uh that we that we can't
change. >> So to to help to help us out here what what are some of the things that the public can have some real influence on going forward? not to suggest and I and I I grant you Judy what you've said is that there's been a lot of public involvement in developing the program
and developing you know uh conceptually that that the priorities and so forth. I get all that. I get all that. What I'm asking is is what's going to be left for the public to sort of chew over and provide real creative and helpful input to you on >> Yeah. I mean I think
like like happens on every project, there are going to be different aesthetic viewpoints, right? So, it's going to be a question of does this represent what most people think would be a nicel lookinging library? Is this, you know, how do people feel about what
it seems like it will be like inside for users, for staff, >> right? >> Um, and is that something that they can get behind or not? And if not, what is it about it that doesn't resonate with them? And how can we change that? >> Um, we want to make sure that it's inclusive. We want to make sure that
it's as welcoming as it can be. That regardless of your background or your, you know, um it's a it's a place that feels like home. It's a kind of civic living room for for people in Yarmouth. Um it offers tremendous resources as all
public libraries do to residents, free internet, access to information, uh engagement with community, program space. There's a I think we have 12 to 14 different meeting rooms in here of different sizes from single occupancy
study rooms to group study rooms to mediumsiz meeting rooms to the large meeting room. So there's a tremendous amount here that the community gets out of this project and we want to make sure that in addition to that it's an environment that people can get excited
about and we hope that that's where we are now. Maybe it isn't to everybody's taste and we'll as we get into it. >> Yeah. No, I I that's that's I think that's where there's probably some latitude. >> Yeah. I I I wish quite frankly we could grant you like another 30 60 more time.
I I feel like we put so much pressure or let's put this way. There's been so much pressure put on you to deliver a lot in a short period of time that it's sort of made everything compressed. And uh I'd have to say you've done a remarkable job in an incredibly compressed period of
time with a lot of curve balls thrown at you. But we have said this board has said over and over again the importance of public engagement, public involvement in the major decisions like this and a sense that the community has a role to play in helping facilitate you know
design choices and and to be a real partner in all aspects of the project. So uh I think your comments are are very very helpful. uh in in that regard. Um now my understanding and maybe this is something a question that others can
answer but when you said you're going to submit I'm assuming it's on behalf of the town in this select board. Correct. >> Uh that's right and actually um I think David Aronson the library director is the one who's kind of manning the store.
He's he is the primary responsible party for uploading things to >> uh through the the website for the grant. >> We are playing a supporting role but most of the documentation is coming from us. >> Okay. >> So we'll be coordinating with him. There is a form that went around for
circulation uh from uh the town library director committee chair um architect OPM. Um, so there's a whole checklist. >> Is there a form for the select board to sign? >> There is not. >> That's interesting. Does it require?
>> It's not. >> That's interesting because my understanding was that we I mean since we're the body that accepts and expends grant funds. >> You're not accepting the No, no, but typically we already did what? >> You already accepted it.
>> Right. Right. Right. So, well, in many in many cases when we're going after a grant application there, it's common for the board to vote. >> So, the grant >> and that's what we're here tonight for. The agenda item is to approve. So, if you don't approve it, they're not going to submit it. >> Okay. But the just to be clear, the
grant this is a >> this is a follow on to the grant application. The grant application already was submitted >> and you've received the grant conditionally, right? The condition being that you satisfy the requirements of the grant which is pro do this work
this planning and design piece submit that for their review to to confirm that yes you've done what we've asked you to do >> and then go to town meeting and at town meeting you are asking the town to vote to accept this grant
>> so commitment >> so the MBLC does not require that you do a vote that's a local decision So, if you locally decide we want to take a vote because we want to uh convey to the town where we stand on this, then that's
up to you to do. But it's not a requirement. We're just kind of tying this up and sending it in. >> But the administrator just said we can we as a board can vote to submit or not. >> Yes, it's a local it's a local decision. >> Okay. I just want to make sure that that
that's clear with everybody. Um >> but we probably could just send it in. See, we we could just send it in because we're just >> following >> following through, >> but it's nice to have your your vote.
>> Well, I Yeah, I >> it's I know it's a little odd. It was odd to me too, Mark. But that that is what what our directive was from. >> If there if there is going to be a construction grant to build a library in the town of Yarmouth, it will be the town of Yarmouth select board that will make a decision whether or not to accept
that grant or not. >> Right. And it's very common for the board to be consulted in the beginning before it submits an application. So just just to let you know what we're used to here. >> No, but you already submitted the application. >> I understand that before we did it before, right? I get it.
>> Yeah. >> So I I don't mean to dominate the conversation. I'm going to yield the floor for the for my colleagues. Thanks for indulging me, >> Joyce. Oh, well, I mean, this is the darkest point of the year. We're almost at the solstice. So, I mean, I'm dizzy
with delight at those illustrations with all that natural light and sunshine. Um, I've followed this process and it seems to me you've done lots of reaching out. I mean, you've had the there was the building committee, there was before that the the thinking about committee.
Um, and I think, you know, if you were a library loving person in Yarmouth, you would have to have been underground or in a coma not to know about this. Um, I don't think that people um will be doing much tinkering with the design because
the revised design is so well thought through and it seems to have something for everybody. And I think um I I picture a a December in the future when we're all going to be fighting for space in there because it'll be so much
prettier than other buildings. So, thank you for all your work and consider me a big supporter. I think it's beautiful. >> Thank you. >> Yes. Wonderful. And I I um I I got a little tearary there because it has been
a long process and I see Linda out in the audience, Linda Callahan. when we first started talking about this and Will Rubenstein um um I believe that there has been a tremendous amount of
information that's gone out to the the public and I think it because it's been over such a long period of time that we kind of lost track of of that process and so I foresee though that as Matt has
spelled out it's not over. >> Um, and that the it's kind of like the wrap of what the building looks like is still something that can be discussed and what kind of rugs and will um or is
there too much window those discussions >> can can go forward. But as when I'm looking at the um the layout slide that is is was left up,
that's really what we discussed with the community and the decision that has been reached is based on community input is that picture of all of the different elements that are going to be that have
been considered and are going to be included. um should we get the grant? Well, we've gotten the grant, but should should we vote once we get the numbers to go forward? So, I'm thrilled and I think having it across the street from
town hall is is going to be fantastic and next to the MacArthur building and having the fields there. I was there wi with the um the the seaside fair festival and having the library right there for things like I think we're
Yarmouth is going to benefit to such a degree to have this tremendous facility and I can't wait to for the fundraising to start because I'm going to make write a check. Thank you. >> Thank you. Uh couple of questions.
U starting with you're talking about the grant submission goes in now as of uh December 31st, but then you also start talking about well we won't really know the square footage and the construction costs and so forth for town meeting
until uh February. My question is this, where does that fall? Is that still part of that grant funding? How is that being paid for? >> This is this is stipulated by the NBLC. Um they did not want to do cost
estimates until they've completed their review. And I think the thinking is if based on their review changes have to be made. You you know there's something that you haven't done that they think you need to do. They don't want the estimate to already have happened. They want to make sure that you're getting
everything exactly the way they want it before you price it. I don't foresee any major changes in our case given the back and forth that we've had with them. We feel like we're in a pretty good spot with them. Like I, you know, I think >> I think the estimate is going to be based on this package that we send them
with with if anything very minor edits, but that's that's the plan that they've set up. And so they take about a month to review. So if we submit at the end of December, we're thinking we won't get comments back from the state until the end of January, at which point we start the estimate. takes about three weeks to
do a cost estimate, takes about a week to review that information, make sure that um all the assumptions were were properly accounted for. And so that takes us to the end of February by the time that we think we have a kind of reconciled cost estimate,
>> right? But what I'm asking is this. If to pay you to pay our consultants to do this piece from January to town meeting, where is the funding to pay you coming
from? Is that still part of what we uh that the voters approved at the um at town meeting >> or is this an extra that you're going to be knocking basically on our door or Bob's door to >> this estimate is included
>> is included. >> Yes. So the estimator already lined up his fee proposal is part of our comprehensive design team fee as is our time to manage that effort. >> Okay. Um, so there's no your question that is that's covered as part of the
>> Great question. Okay. Yeah. So I mean for the sake of the people watching at home, there isn't any more money being expended by the town until we get to town meeting. >> That's right. >> And allow the the people to decide where they go from this point on.
>> That's right. >> Also, um I I love the design boards. They're fantastic. You've got them in the South Yarmouth Library. My question for you is this. Where are the ones for the West Yarmouth Library and for Town
Hall? >> We just hadn't ordered them yet because we had to um we had to get that first set here very quickly. >> Okay. But they are on order to have at West. >> We are planning to print uh additional copies to have in other locations in
town. Yes. >> Okay. And do you anticipate a date when you'll have those by? >> Probably by next week. We can >> Okay, great. That that's kind of my question in that if we're submitting this effective December 31st, >> I'd want to be able to know that
everyone is having an opportunity to see it. >> Is it on the website? If I may interrupt, Darcus, sorry, >> but I'm sorry. >> The board's on the website. >> Not yet. No. >> Okay. >> Be on the website tomorrow. Well,
website's all well and good, Liz, if you use a computer, but we got a lot of people. Yeah, >> we got a lot of people in town that don't, right? >> And um I I'm just thinking, >> you know, like I'd love to see one over at our senior center, you know, you know, town hall, the senior center, West
Yarmouth, and um and at South Yarmouth. I think that that's hitting your big points of, you know, where it should be. If you go all the way down to the very beginning of this, for me, it kind of is all being based,
and correct me if I'm wrong, but this is kind of being based on the fact that this design and the reason the library board approved it is because they were looking at this as our one central library for the town.
>> That was our charge. Yes. >> Okay. So that's coming out of the original premise. And yet what we saw, Judy, when we saw the number of people that responded in June was overwhelmingly
that they were going to still see a West Yarmouth branch and a South in addition to this. >> That was their desire. Yes, we heard that. >> Right. So, I mean that but that doesn't
doesn't affect our charge. Our charge was to um present to you a design for a library that would serve the needs of the the community. And that's was based on I we talked about population a lot
the last time we were here, but it wasn't just on population, it was on programmatic needs. So, programmatic needs and population um and a fluctuating population in the summer. What would a library,
a modern library look like to serve those needs? And so, I think we've heard kind of a a revision of how West Yarmouth Library actually functions. Um, this became
uh more clear to me recently that the library views it now almost as a branch anyway because the major collection, the major traffic, the major circulation is at south. So,
um, the there's more demand for space coming in west, particularly for children's programs, and they just can't do it. But but with a library that belongs to the town that would have beautiful spaces for kids and a
dedicated story hour room and access to outdoor play that that would take the pressure off West Yarmouth to be all things to all people there. Uh, but I I do go back to the fact that that wasn't
our charge and that that that really belongs with you folks to determine if you're going to operate two buildings. Um, and I do I do have to say I love our libraries just as
they are. I really do. But part of the reason I love the library and that you love your library is that our staff does such a wonderful job and they keep their game faces on all the time and they are
serviceoriented. But the challenges they work with in space, um, mostly space, but just space and leaky thinks and all kinds of other things that they deal with to provide us as the
the customers, if you will, of the library. The library patrons only see the best of those folks. Um, they are absolutely wonderful and it's always a great experience. But if you walk into any of those libraries, you know, there's no place
for them to really go and work. So to have the community that we want to have where people will learn together, where people will be happy, where we will be interacting, where we will provide a beautiful municipal building
that says we're Yarmouth and we're proud. I really urge you to just support this and we will find a way. We will find a way. I'm much more hopeful, Mark. I'm much more hopeful. I'm sorry. I'm
not I I'm not meaning to put you on the hot seat. And I know what your charge was and I what what all of you did was commendable, but I'm still going back to I hear you, Liz, that we really had community involvement the first time around, but what was shocking to me was
the amount of response we got over the summer from the library building committee of people saying that they absolutely want West Jarmath to stay. number one. And number two, what was
astounding to me were the number of people that said that they would never approached before for input. I mean, that was in a lot of those emails and, um, you know, presentations that we had, you know, people saying, uh, I I didn't
get a chance to participate the first time around. And if your whole premise is based on a central library, it it's food for thought for me on on um and certainly for discussion among my um
fellow board members um because there seem to be like two concepts, you know, like that we have three three branches in town and we don't talk about Yarmathport because quite honestly the town doesn't have to pay for that. Fortunately, they have
their own um library association and board that pays for that. But the town is paying for South Yarmouth and for West Yarmouth. And what we were really hearing and and this isn't really to you. This is to
everyone. What we were really hearing is we want to keep West Yarmouth overwhelmingly and we want to keep South Yarmouth. And um so then the question comes to play for instance with your design and I
I guess my question would be if we when when we get before town meeting that's where it's going to be up to the people to decide one way or another. Absolutely. I mean, I I'm sitting here knowing that it's not costing anyone a
dime between now and when everyone is going to sit down again and talk about this at town meeting. >> Um, but at town meeting, we're going to have to have an awful lot of information available uh for the people to be able to make an
informed decision. And at the same time, we the board are going to have to look at from a capital perspective, particularly after the news that we were getting from Jennifer and Bob and the capital improvement today about our
continuing debt, how much can we afford to actually spend? So like for instance immediately comes up a question for me are we going to have to staff bigger for this for this new library or are we taking just the existing staff of South
Yarmouth and moving them into this library and then staying with our existing staff in West Yarmouth staying there or by nature of this building and the size being so much larger than South Yarmouth do we need extra staff?
There are a lot of questions for us. I'm afraid to go into this and cost quite honestly, Matt, is going to drive an awful lot of it. So when >> when I I hear you that the the board is tell lab library board is telling you
that you're not going to be able to make they want to actually finalize their what they're going to allow and then that you have to go ahead and put together those construction costs. But when you're putting together those construction costs, some of the questions we're going to have, for
instance, is you're talking about having an allect electric building, what's the cost going to be to put the solar in to help to fund that electricity? You know, what's the cost going to be um for um the
the all those mechanicals, the the actual space? Do we really need a 120 space auditorium? I mean, there's an awful lot of question marks there for us that that I think we have to have firm, hard numbers that we can sit with the
town's people like we did when it came time for wastewater and everyone is fully informed before we get to town meeting um that this is what it's going to cost. >> So, like all the questions that we're asking tonight that we don't have an
answer for, we're going to need to have an answer for. >> Absolutely. by the time we get to town. >> We do have a lot of data though on uh program programs that were run in the Leonard room and requests for programs to be run
that could not be run. So we have a lot of that kind of data. We have a lot of data on uh attendance at children's programs and some of those had to be run outdoors because there's no room um and they could and then if it was raining
well then that program doesn't happen where you if you have a facility yes you can continue and you can have your programs. Um, I know there was a conversation also earlier with, well, if we're going to keep West open, then uh,
take that square footage and lop it off this design because then that was presented at one of our meetings. And it was like, well, we can't do that because again, this was our charge. This was the the information that was gathered from
everybody who participated. And I wonder too um you know I I love town meeting. I love the representative government, the direct access we have and this pure form of de democracy that we have in town. I
just absolutely love it. It's cumbersome and it but we have a responsibility to be informed too as citizens. We have that responsibility to be informed. And when people say, "Oh, I didn't hear about
it." Um, maybe they didn't, but there are things that they were paying attention to that were more important for them. And now when this is important, they're going to pay
attention. And that's our chance to say things like, "This is what your new library can provide for you." And we intend to be out there doing that. Yeah, and Dorcas, to your point about costs, we will know costs um by the end
of February and solar is one thing that we can add to that list of of questions about cost and and absolutely it is a logical uh tiein to an all-electric system. It would be great. The the building has
sort of been designed thinking about, you know, south facing roof. that entire youth services wing is south facing, but even the the adult wing we think could have some some yield benefit for solar. We're obligated by code to provide a solar ready building. So, at a at a
minimum, it is designed so that it can receive solar. Solar is an eligible cost. If the town decides that that's something that they want to build into a construction package, we can do that. We're doing that on another MBLC project now that's going to open up um at the
beginning of the new year. uh they decided to buy the solar as part of the put it into the bid documents so that they are getting the MBLC reimbursement for that cost. Um you know that's a that's a bigger conversation about how the right way to do solar in this town. You know I don't know if
there's some towns have a municipal array that funds all of the public buildings. Others do it building by building. There are a lot of different ways to to procure solar. The tax credits have changed for solar. So now I think nonprofits can actually get a tax
credit where they did not used to be able to. So the calculus has changed a little bit. It used to be that that was a great donor opportunity. Um private donors would donate a a solar array, take the tax credit. Um so there it was sort of a win-win. So there there's a
lot to talk about about solar specifically, but we we are planning this fully expecting that somehow solar will be on the roof of this building and we should talk we can identify what that cost is. >> Um and then we should talk about the different ways that that could be
achieved. See, I think we need to be able to tell the people this this is what this is all, you know, if if you vote yes because once we vote at town meeting, then we're locked in, aren't we, to go forward with the building.
>> Yes. >> So, they need to know at town meeting >> what they're locking into >> total. >> Yeah. >> And not coming back. pay a lot of attention before town meeting. >> Well, not coming back later and saying,
"Oh, by the way, you know, we there's an extra cost of for this or that, you know, like we're just going to have to have it all there for them." >> Of course. >> Yeah. Um, one other thing I want to mention related to solar, but but really any uh kind of green feature. The MBLC
also offers a green library incentive uh program, which is a reimbursement program that uh pays 3% of the grant award uh with a minimum $100,000 grant. So, in our case, our our estimate is
that the town would get a $400,000 um reimbursement. This would be after the building opens. You have to there's several different pathways to demonstrate compliance with the requirements, but um we're we're very confident that we can achieve one of
those pathways. One is uh get lead gold certified, but there are other ways to do it. Um that's a that's a reimbursement. it would be $400,000 that would then offset the cost of a solar array or you know some other aspect of the library that you know that
contributes to the sustainability. So that's on top of the grant award. >> Well, I have to say thank you. You've done an amazing job. It it's been a pleasure to work with you. Um whatever way this comes down at town meeting. uh
you we kept throwing things at you and you just kept going, "Sure, we'll figure that out." And came back and had a solution. So, um it's really been amazing. Now, I think it comes back to us on the board. Um I thank you all
>> and want to approve the submission of the grant formally. >> We have to wait for somebody to get back here. >> Here he comes. >> Here he comes. >> Can I make a motion while we're while he's in motion? Okay. >> I make a motion that we approve the
submission of the library package to the M MB MSBLC. >> MBLC. >> MBLC. >> Do I have a second? You have a second. So, discussion Mark. >> Yeah. Let me just add another item. I think um I'd I'd like to address we have
to address headon this question about the West Yarmouth Library because the reality is is that in your meetings there's been enough talk and speculation that perhaps the West Yarmouth Library is somehow either going to go or be a
casualty in this >> and I think somehow that message is out there and I think quite frankly we as a board need to really address that and make that fundamentally clear that as far as we're concerned, there's no intention in terms of the advancement of this
project to to see the end of the West Yarmouth Library. And I I want to address that to my fellow board members. Does anybody here on this board support a project that ends up with the loss of the West Yarmouth Library? I just would have to
respond that I think that there's a fiscal reality to uh keeping west and south and having a new library that we will need to to confront because I I it will involve more staff. There's no way
it can't. And so how do we balance how do we handle that? Do we a as uh as residents is that part of the residents voice at town meeting they have an additional cost uh as a on on the
warrant that says yes we want to keep these other libraries going at this cost and we're willing to to shoulder it. >> Yes choice. Oh, I I just wonder how much um concern there is about keeping the South Yarmouth Library open. Um given
that the new central library would be in South Yarmouth. I mean, I've I think I've heard mainly concerned about keeping the West Yarmouth Library open. So, we're really talking about one branch library probably rather than two. Um, if I could,
>> I I think uh comments about restoring or keeping South open are related to not doing the project at all. Ah, well, >> yeah. I think if there's a library that needs to be replaced, it's the South Yarmouth Library. That's the way I've
always looked at this project is that building that has been >> reach their max. >> Yeah. It's it's I mean, we all love it. It's wonderful, but it's it's outlived its purpose. It's time to be repurposed to something in some in some other way to support the community. But, um, I
think the the message that is out there in the community that we have to confront is that moving forward with this project somehow undermines and weakens the prospect of the West Yarmouth Library. And there's a perception in the community that if we
vote yes to this, it's going to be mean meaning a vote against West German. And quite frankly, Liz, your comments don't help in that regard. It only >> they don't. >> So, >> I mean, but I do think that that's a reality. If we're going to have the discussion, is that not part of the the
it's a it's a fiscal discussion? How do we keep both libraries staffed? Well, that's that's the problem that I have with your the motion is that we're only unless unless we nip this in the bud soon, we're only going to continue
to perpetuate that that view out there in the community. And uh that's why I can't support the motion >> to um go forward with the >> correct the application. I don't want to be sending a message in the community that somehow we the town of Yarmouth and
the select board somehow believe that West Yarmouth is in jeopardy. The West Yarmouth library is it's not. >> And I can't support it either. Well, and I would just make the note that um if we don't go forward with the grant
application and we then we have we have West and South Yarmouth libraries >> forever >> forever because this grant is now will be closed for another five years and though the West Yarmouth Library
as lovely as it is is not a modern library and will not does not provide what we are were some of us were hoping the town of Yarmouth would have, which is ample meeting space and a place for
children and grown-ups to gather. And we won't we just won't have that because West Yarmouth can't provide that. >> But you're also saying that we would be out of this grant process, but it's not that we're closing the door forever.
>> We're opening the door. We're opening the door in the future. I mean >> not with this grant this grant >> but there would be >> right but there will be another grant process that we can submit to >> it's a it's a only a possibility >> funding
>> but we might not be looked on favorably by having gone through this >> far and then then walking away >> well >> but this this project can coexist this was already discussed when you when you selected this site it
was predicated on a discussion that this facility may coexist with the West Yarmouth Library. Not the South that replaces the South, but it can coexist. And there's absolutely nothing in this proposal that
threatens West Yarmouth. That's I think what the committee is saying that's the select board's decision that we can keep West Yarmouth. in fact that what this building will do is create the opportunity to do some of the
programming that can't be done at West and so it takes the pressure off of West so that it can exist as a nice branch but it doesn't have to have all the children's programming and the other things. So, so submitting this grant application is not a threat to West
Yarmouth. The >> it's a it's a decision of the select board to to move in that direction. But yet I heard uh out of I already heard like Liz was starting to talk about fiscally we have
to look at you know like um the fact that uh we can't really handle both. I mean that >> that's a question. It's not a statement. No, I know it's not a statement, but >> that's a >> Mark Mark is absolutely right and I support what he's saying that there is a
feeling in this community that unless we absolutely put it to a vote that we're not closing West Yarmouth Library. That's what the people are what I'll tell you that's what the people in West
Yarmouth want to hear. Madam Chair, I think one of the troublesome points about this conversation is that you don't know what any fiscal challenges will be in 28 2930
that might cause you to reuse any of our municipal buildings. So looking forward 5 8 10 years, you don't know what those challenges will be. you know, the remember when we had the floods here and
we had to, you know, scamper around and there are just going to be challenges that we can't foresee. We can we can foresee some of the challenges that Bob outlined earlier. So, I think it I think you're almost creating a difficult
situation for yourselves by >> we excuse me, we did not create this. No, by saying we will not close west. >> No, but I'm saying somehow out of your meetings and your discussion, it's been it's permeated in the community because
I mean we this is what we hear >> is that this is part of a plan to ultimately undermine West Yarmouth. That's what I'm saying. And this kind of very weak affirmation of support for West Yarmouth only worsens the
situation. You know, we all know that in this community, at least I do, that people love all of their libraries and the libraries play an incredibly important role to the vitality and the energy in each village. >> Right. >> All right. Y
>> and what they're looking for is they're looking for not just the select board, but also the people that work that we appoint to serve on committees to reflect that commitment. >> And what they've been hearing in those committee meetings is not that >> and that is I'm just telling you this is
undermining this project. And the only way we can get at least this project moving forward is not only just to support the application, but to reaffirm our support for the West Yarmouth Library. Well, Mark, would you be willing to break that into two
proposals? Like have a vote first on whether we're willing to support the West Yarmouth Library and then move on to vote on the proposal? This is I'm refle I'm speaking to what I'm hearing in the community. And all I'm saying is is that this board needs to understand
that if we go forward without without addressing and reaffirming our support for West Yarmouth, the perception's going to be that what we're doing is we're under by voting to submit this application. And it's still one of many other steps that has to proceed. I mean,
this doesn't we've got town meeting. In fact, there's not even a decision on the application. We need we need to get an application that gets submitted and approved. But there's a perception somehow that moving forward with this undermines the future of the West
Yarmouth Library. And my argument is this to the board is that we just should put this to bed. Uh we did not create this perception. It was created elsewhere >> in West Jarmath. I would guess >> how do we put it? >> No, it wasn't created in West Jarmath. It was created I watch the meetings. I
get the videotapes. I watch the discussion. >> How do we put it to bed, Mark? What we do is we vote and I'll make a motion unless we we I guess we have a motion on the floor, but I don't think there going to be enough votes. >> We we um >> I'm happy to offer another motion.
>> Well, just >> Do you want me to withdraw my motion? >> If you withdraw your motion, >> I do. So, okay. My motion is is that we support and endorse the grant application being submitted uh
on behalf of the for the new library, but we also reaffirm our the board's support for continued use and long-term continued use and the continuation of the West Jarmath Library that we reaffirm our support for the the future
viability and the use of the the West Jarmas Library. Second appropriate is that >> that covers it, I think. >> All right, that's fine. >> Second. All right. Any discussion on that? >> I I would just note that I'm I am I foresee some of our South Yarmouth users
being upset by this, but I will definitely support the West Yarmouth Library. >> Okay. All in favor? >> I >> I >> opposed. Thank you all very much. Thank you. >> And that answers the question. Have
there been a vote vote by the board to affirm West Charm? And there was a vote by the board to affirm West Char tonight. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. Here. Good job, >> Tim.
>> All right. Moving on to our next item. >> Oh my god. Oh, >> I see you right over there in the corner. >> You might know that. >> Yeah. No, but our next item is the discussion of the ME small school
replacement feasibility study. >> And in addition, we have the pleasure of having the chair of the committee present with us. >> Great. >> And I'm going to turn it over at this point to Mark Forest. Thank you, Madam
Chair. Um, let me give a little bit of an explanation for for some that may not know. Um, when I was appointed to represent the select board on this committee, I made it abundantly clear that I would not be acting on my own, but I would report regularly to the full
board and want to engage the board and discuss with the board various aspects of uh the committee's work. Um and so that's what this discussion is is in part is my this is my way of bringing
together us so that we can update you I can update you. Um I tried to do this once before but it was suggested we make it as an agenda item so I did and I wanted to extend an opportunity to others. Now the I I've invited Will uh
Rubenstein and uh Rich Simon to to join us and I'm glad Thomas is here. uh he's the chairman of the committee. Uh I understand uh Dr. Smith couldn't make it. He had another commitment. But the intention here is just to make sure that this board is informed and aware of how
things have been progressing and understanding some of the questions and some of the concerns that I've raised. Um I have not been able to attend every meeting. The meetings are scheduled while I'm teaching at the college. So I've only been able to participate in
portions of the meeting. And so I'm always bending Will's ear or Richard's ear to tell me what I missed and uh what I need to get caught up on. And so that's why I invited them to be part of this conversation. And I'm glad Thomas is here as well. So
>> Miss Far, if I can just comment on that, um, you know, I was disappointed that I was not originally approached or invited to be a part of this tonight. I I would expect that a chair of a subcommittee would be the person who was directed to speak on behalf of that committee. that members of a committee would not be
approached directly as if a patrolman was approached to speak on behalf of the police department. I would expect that the chief would be um you know asked ahead of time. So I I do want to make that that known that if there is discussion or questions about uh anything with the school district or
subcommittee that the chairs of the appropriate committees are approached because they're the they're the authorized people to speak on that behalf. >> Sure. I apologize and I'm glad you're here. So with and if you'd like to yield take the floor first to sort of talk a little
bit about how you think things have been pro progressing and and where we're at that I'd be I'd be more than happy to recommend to the chair that we yield the floor to you first if there >> I'd be happy to hear the the questions and concerns that you may have um so that we may answer them. >> Okay.
Before I do that, I'd like to at least let Richard I invited Richard uh and and Will to to to make a brief presentation. and they've sent me some material which I've forwarded to the board. I'm assuming at the meetings they've probably been shared with perhaps other
members of the building committee, but nonetheless, I think it's helpful to hear from them. And uh so I'd like to yield my time uh to to Richard and and Will Rubenstein. I've I personally have been concerned about enrollment projections and the enrollment numbers.
I've I've raised that before at meetings and I've shared that with the select board. But um some people have actually spent more time looking at this question than than I. So um like I said, I'm I'm interested in hearing from from them. We we we as a board rely on them for a
tremendous amount of uh work here uh in our community and uh and uh I have enormous respect and and trust their their judgment and their analysis. So thank you, Madam Chair. Let me uh Richard Simon precinct 2 uh
chair of the finance committee as well as number of other committees as well as a member of the uh Emmy small school building committee. Um Mark, thank you for um the invitation tonight. Um I
think it's important to put this in context. Uh I the comments that I'm going to make tonight are result of my own personal work not they do not reflect the finance committee's view. Uh the finance committee though is very
supportive as is the select board uh in finding a solution for the Emmy small school. uh we supported uh the uh motion that was made the article for the 1.5 million feasibility study unanimously and part
of the reason for that is if you're going whatever we do moving forward you would like to have somebody else's money in this case uh the MSBA's money 57% available to us and so the
process that we're going through is a well-defined MS SBA process and we're in that phase where up until this point the staff you know the the school board school committee
uh has done amazing amount of work. uh they've already delivered all of the major things that are required uh the feasib to get approved for the feasibility study and there's no guarantee that you do get this but the staff has done an outstanding job of
getting Mark Smith and his group have done an outstanding job of lining everything up. Everything that was required to be submitted, to be approved, to go into the feasibility stage has been done, has been signed off on. And really, I think I need to
reaffirm that that is excellent work. And that, you know, we owe a debt of gratitude to the school committee and to Dr. Smith for making that happen because I think at this point it's in the hands of the MSBA. And if we are fortunate, we
should hear soon. >> Yeah, the the requirement is by December 26th. Um the last two documents were submitted this morning and accepted by them. So um we do have a couple of days for them to respond. Um if if it does if something doesn't look right, but the last two documents were submitted today.
Um again, as previous groups discussed, trying to get it before the due date. Um with December 26th being the day after a holiday. Um, all items were submitted this morning and accepted by the MSBA this afternoon. So, we're just waiting for any feedback from those items.
>> So, the reason that that's important is to in order to do the full feasibility study, which goes into answering some of the questions about what is the best way forward, you want to have that funding, that support from the state to make that
happen. And so, like I said, I'm very pleased that uh that has already happened. Um the next part, the rest of this is related to >> Richard, can I just interrupt for a second? Um and I want to just comment on
Thomas's comments. Um is there any this was a question by one of our one of our board members and that is is there any reimbursement from the state on any of the the feasibility study funding that that have been provided? uh the feasibility study hasn't been approved
as of yet. So, but the feasibility will be looped into the the possible refunding of part of the 57%. So, the 1.5 million um would be eligible for that. Um and part of what was due today was how that 1.5 million will be utilized. How much of it for
feasibility, how much for OPM, how much of it for design. So, that's what you know the last piece of it that was that was submitted today. >> Thank you. That's helpful. >> Right. So, now now comes the next part of it. It's really sort of the math that goes into that type of feasibility work.
Um, so there's uh, as Mark mentioned, there's the question about uh, enrollment projections. The MSBA uses a formula that's based on a well doumented well uh articulated process that looks
at >> robust >> very robust um that looks at uh birth rates or births which then translates into kindergarten enrollment which then goes through the whole process of what uh it
basically rolls through the whole 12 years. And so the interesting part about that is for most communities um the birth rate to uh the birth to
kindergarten rate is 1 one. Ours is much less than that which sort of raises the question. The next part is in most cases uh seasonal housing represents perhaps 2% or less of a community. Uh so the
formula is really sort of built around the year- round housing basis. Uh but the year- round housing is equal to total housing. In our case, uh we're already at 36 uh 36% seasonal and it's
going down. So those are some of the questions that when you're getting into the enrollment uh f uh fine details is a part of it. uh next part is going to be coming really sort of uh when we get down to
the design phase when if you look at other u programs to figure out what the costs are going to be for these types of schools there's a um I've actually looked at a U database of 77
prior elementary school uh I know that because that's what I do um so it turns out that The MSBA standard is about 150 square feet per person and the cost per person per pupil is someplace
between 50 and 100 but there's a wide range right so 150 is the MSB guideline uh there's examples in the research that say you know some people go up to 300 square feet a person and a quarter of a million dollars per person per pupil for
the cost. So there's a huge set of issues related to that. Making sure that you stay within that MSBA standard because one of the things that's really happened and I've noticed this in the data that they produced, it used to be
the reimbursement rate was like u 59% and it was reimbursed at 88%. So only 12% weren't reimburseable. Now it's gone crazy. Uh 25% of projects have
scope exclusions. Basically, you're superersizing yourself. And there's lots of examples of that. Um one of the most famous ones of recent days, uh was the Lexington example, um which was a $660 million
project. They did come in at 150 150 square feet per pupil, but they then they superersized. So they added a 48,000 square foot fieldhouse, extra 20,000 for central offices, extra superersized gym, a superersized
auditorium. So that added roughly $120 million just for that. So that's part of why I think as we move forward with the process we do want to look at that and I think the final piece is making sure that we look at all the
options. Um so obviously one of the options would be uh re repairing Emmy small I don't think that's on the table replacing Emmy small as a K to3 would be another option but another set of options would be to
take a holistic look at the current u envelope that we have all the buildings because they are buildings with classrooms and so one of the things I think we should be doing as a committee is also looking at the broader facility implications and that's and that was
sort of the point I think Mr. uh uh Rubenstein made that point at the meeting our last meeting is that we do need to have a robust set of options just not one option. >> Thank you. Um,
so my perspective on this is as someone who served on the Dennis Yarmouth Intermediate Middle School School Building Committee, um, as a member at large and yes, I'm a member of the planning board and and like what Richard just said earlier, I don't represent the
planning board, but one of the things that serving on a committee like that enables me to do is to fly 30,000 ft off the ground. And also as a parent of a student in the district in addition to getting the perspectives of being on the planning board, I do speak individually,
but I do in addition to what Richard said, I I see bigger challenges than just this project. Um, we just spent 45 minutes talking about a project that is coming at us to the tune of, I'll just use
round numbers, $30 million before reimbursement. We also have phase two of our sewer system which will be >> 60 million >> not 207 million but it will be let's say 60 to 100 million and that's very
preliminary numbers. We also have as it relates to in sometime in 2027 as we know the department the DP told the town of Yarmouth that they could have a sewer
treatment plant to the tune of 375,000 gallons. Yet what we need is discharge for a million and a half gallons. I'm using rough numbers but I'm pretty close. So now, unfortunately, through no fault of
the town in sometime in 2027 at a town meeting, there will be a conversation about the town of Yarmouth asking its taxpayers to spend around $30 million as it relates to using Bayberry. And all of that is
very well researched in partnership with the DP despite the fact that they're forcing us to do it. um and done through amazing amazing consultants that we're working with right now. All who have good intentions. All of those projects are coming at us
in addition to this one. And this is not a judgment about whether we need to do something about at small. What I did say at the very first meeting in September, and I said it with peace and love, and I say it at every meeting,
and I will continue to say it, is that we as a community have to have the most open mind that we've ever had when it comes to figuring out how to it's not even solve how to handle
the situation that is Emmy Small, that is nobody's fault, but yet we are the ones together that have to handle it. And so I firmly believe that there are more radical solutions
that can be discussed and chewed on by not just this group but clearly the Dennis Yarmouth Regional School Committee and yes even our friends across the river because the very fact is we have not included the town of Dennis in any of
our conversations and I understand that there's a legal and sort of practical reason because it is a elementary school project and therefore this entire feasibility study and the possible solution of what how we handle the future of em small is a Yarmouth
problem. I don't personally agree because the truth of the matter is we're in a regional school district and we have buildings with classrooms. When I moved here in 2004, I don't need to repeat what the school setup was back then, okay? But there
were a lot more schools, right? with very distinct grade configurations. So I guess what I would say is in the year 2025, both communities have come a long way in terms of which grades have to go in which schools and can eighth
graders go into high school. Yep, they sure can. In fact, based on some of the data that I've seen and that Richard's provided and Toma I know has seen and others can certainly take a look at, if we think about our school district as buildings
that have classrooms, my personal thought, and this is just personal, is that we can move everybody out of me small >> and we can do that by August of 2026. And if that sounds too radical, I'd even
grant you August of 2027. And that can all be done in a parallel timeline in a parallel universe while we still try to handle what to do about consolidation or a brand new elementary school. I don't know what. Now, that is a radical
idea, but it doesn't mean it can't be done. Now, part of the inertia involved in the way that our town and our friends in Dennis and the school committee have to operate in is that we have a unique
structure where there's a regional school committee and the regional school committee has a ton of power granted to them by you know through the agreement. I will end on this. I think the fundamental issue and why we're having this discussion tonight and
why things got really sideways seven, eight years ago between our two towns is because we have a fundamental problem with our regional school agreement. And until all the responsible parties can come together in the interest of the
children as well as the employees of the school district, I'm not really sure how we're going to handle these problems because we have a regional school agreement that I don't know if anybody has actually taken some time to read. It is
ripe, I would say, for further discussion. And yes, I'm going to use the word amendment. And that is not a judgment on the chair of the school committee who is sitting to my right, who I consider a friend.
That is not a judgment on Dr. Smith. But until we go way up higher than 30,000 feet, until we go to 50,000 feet and we start to work with our friends from Dennis and try to understand the issues that they're facing on a more
severe level, as Richard can attest, in terms of their seasonal housing numbers and their dwindling population, I don't understand how we're we can sort of try to solve this little this little problem. It's not even a little problem.
This little problem is the problem. And part of the challenge is, which is what you were just discussing earlier with the library issue, is the timing of all these competing deadlines and all these interests from all these groups. Now,
I'm being a little glib, and I really don't mean to be. the school committee and the select board of Yarmouth and the select board of Dennis need to form some sort of working group tomorrow to start working our way out of these
the situation that we're in. It's not anybody's fault, but this but our friends at the MSBA have a set of standards that are going to be very tricky for us to try to convince them that they're wrong. When you look at the Lexington High
School project, those kind of demographics and those kinds of th the way that they approached that project, they actually were able to negotiate with this with the school committee, I believe, in Lexington to to shape some of the that building despite some of the
let's just say um extra requests that the that they eventually recommended to the taxpayers. But unfortunately, this MSBA doesn't account for seasonal housing and we're a community that has up to 35% seasonal
housing and our friends across the river even more and getting worse. So part of the challenge is that we as both communities and the school committee need to come together not just to fundamentally look at the
agreement which by the way has some really glaring emissions that Tracy Post has pointed out I'm sure to all of you including the fact that the new intermediate middle school is not even in the most recent version of the uh regional school agreement. Again, that's
nobody's fault, but these kinds of things have to get put into a working group as soon as possible because we owe it not just to the people that are parents of kids who are in the schools now, but we owe it to
the hundreds of employees who depend on us for their jobs. And I'm excited about the challenge, but I'm also a little bit worried as I know all of you are. And I just hope that as we
move through this process together, this is an opportunity to not solve a problem but to but to sort of put forth this bigger bigger issue which is how do we educate the students in Dennis and Yarmouth and
employ these hundreds of people and do it in a way that we can afford. So, I apologize that I went into a lot of different pockets, but but I unlike Richard, this is why we make, you know, this is
why we're friends is that Richard is chocolate and I'm peanut butter because Richard has forgotten more about school enrollment data than I'm ever going to learn. But at the same time, that gives me the freedom to say,
"We got to do something about this." and how do we galvanize? And I do look to our elected leaders and I include our chair who is an elected leader and the other three members who represent Yarmouth and the fine people who represent Dennis. I challenge our elected leaders to do something about it
because this timeline that we're on is very much defined right by the MSBA. The MSBA sets the rules about when we can submit and what that means and where it goes. But in a parallel universe, these bigger
discussions about the immediate efficacy and safety of the students and the staff at Emmy Small, not to mention the future of Ezra Baker, not to mention, I'll say it, seventh graders in the high school. Like all these things have to be put on the table. And I understand that that might
come a shock to some people, but when I first moved here, Wixon was 4 to 8, fourth grade to eighth grade. Lawrence MacArthur was a school that was open like this is a community and so have Dennis that is used to making radical decisions about the future and the home
of their students and their staff. So, so despite what I'm saying might sound a little bit incendiary or the fact that maybe our new intermediate middle school should become a third to six school, right? Like just because it says 3 4 5 6
right now doesn't mean that that has to be that those grades have to be there forever. They're buildings with classrooms and we have a responsibility to help educate and h and staff those places in response to the demographic challenges that we have and in addition
to the fact that we have a partner we have a partner across the river that I hope we'll start to engage on a parallel timeline. Thank you. Madam Chair, may I ask a question? >> Sure. >> Oh. Um, will I I heard loud and clear
what you were saying and I noticed that uh you see the answer to this in revising um the school agreement between the two towns. Um can you just mention a couple things you think need to be addressed in the school agreement revision?
>> I I won't profess to understand all the mechanisms in which I would improve the actual school agreement. I think it's more of a of a of a of a request to have a dialogue between the school committee and both select boards. I I I I because
I don't >> that's that's something very different though >> than revi then >> no but I I guess what I'm saying is revisions to the regional school agreement would come out of a working group of let's say two members of from Yarmouth and two members from Dennis and
a few members from the school committee working together to then make recommendations back to both all three of those organizations about how to amend the regional school agreement. There's some like little tiny practical things you can that I think should be addressed, but the way that the school agreement is written,
those amendments have a have a process. Um, and they can come from the school committee or they can come from, I believe, 10% of the registered voters from either town and then it has to go to town meeting. So, I guess what I would say to your question, Joyce, is it'd be much better if there was one
package of amendments that went to the towns or went to the school committee or came from the school committee to be considered by the towns. You know, we have to work all this stuff out as opposed to here's 14 amendments and I have them drafted. I don't have that. >> Well, that's not exactly what I'm
asking. I I mean I'm in favor of of dialogue, of course, but um given that you feel so strongly that change is needed, could you mention like one or two things that you think are key things that ought to be investigated in the dialogue?
>> Well, I mean, >> well, you can start with the fact that you just said the intermediate school isn't in the agreement right now. >> Sure. I mean, I think that's important just from a legal standpoint, just, you know. Oh, and I I think >> Richard may have a couple others and I can throw a couple in and Tom, you know, it's not like the school committee
itself doesn't think about these things. I know that they do. I know that they do. >> I mean, pre preK should be referenced in the uh at this point, even though we run a prek program, it's not referenced in the agreement at all. >> When was the last time that the school agreement was amended?
>> 2019. >> 2019. >> Yeah. And I'm not sure how we missed the intermediates. Again, it's nobody's fault, but somehow the intermediate middle school just wasn't included. >> Chair, I'm a little confused because it's on our um agenda
uh upcoming agenda items. So, it's not it's something we've been we're we're we're headed towards and tonight I thought we were talking about >> Emmy Small. >> Yeah. So, I'm a little confused. >> That's my fault, Liz. >> Okay. >> Sorry. So, I'll I'll I I'll speak I'll
speak at the pleasure of the chair. So, >> one of the things that's kind of important to say about what's happening tonight and um is in order for us to talk to each other as opposed to what people out people outside think we all
get on the phone and talk to each other every day all the time. And we can't do that. >> And the Sunday brunches, >> we we can't do that. We have to have it on our agenda. We have to, you know, have an open meeting. And so, not that any decisions are being made sometimes
on what's on our agenda, it's just that we're going to talk about these things and this just opens up an an opportunity for us to start to talk about it. Um, I'm sorry, Thomas, that you weren't invited as the one that actually set the
agenda. That really is my fault. I'm sorry. I I guess I just assumed things that weren't in place and that's my fault because what we do want is very open dialogue. What we do want I'm sure I speak for everyone is that we want to
start sitting down and talking about it. I I was so encouraged over the last couple of years uh with Dr. with Dr. Smith joining us in seeing the discussions on budget, >> you know, where we actually had both towns and school, you know, committee
together talking about budget long before it it used to be that it was just a done thing and it came before the board and >> send it to you in February. We have discussions in September. >> Right. Right. and and now what we have is a really I think a very dynamic
working community uh group that's that's starting to look at that and the dialogues are opening and the more we can do that the better and um I I think we've all been talking I know I've heard my counterparts in in Dennis talk about the agreement and I know your fellow uh
committee members have as well. I mean and and our chair who of course unfortunately is not here tonight would be the first to talk about you know so I think we all agree will there needs to be an opening a dialogue on that. Um,
and what concerns me a little bit in the in this is like we just had that whole conversation about the library. You know, that in some ways we're kind of lockstepped
into doing things a certain way because that's the way we had to do it based on what the state wanted done or we didn't get the money. And it's kind of the same thing going on for this one too in
spades because we I I learned for instance from um the planning board when the library came before then that there are actually some leeways that you have in the library planning process that are
not allowed in the state education process. you know, that we're even more in lock step of what what we have to do. Um, and what what we all need to do, it's almost like, you know, like this needs to be
something that's like an ongoing conversation that we're talking about maybe even every, you know, like five weeks or so, you know, like that that we just keep bringing it up. It's not something we have to discuss for, you
know, an hour and a half and make you poor guys be here at 9:30 at night, but um we need to start talking about this and it's it's to educate us what's going on. Um it's to educate our our um our
folks listening at home about what's going on because the more that they know what's going on, the better. and the more that it's discussed here in the open on TV as opposed to via
social media or whatever else anybody wants to do the better. >> So on that point specifically the uh the em uh the Emmy small uh school building committee meetings are recorded. Uh there is a dedicated website. Uh it
needs to be updated because they just changed uh design. Um so a lot of that is available. Uh we've also I've specifically asked to have certain or to add the enrollment uh the you know to
give the entire committee uh a view into some of the enrollment issues. uh and you know certainly we'll be asking for uh agenda items related to school construction cost and trends and that sort of information. So I think the process is potentially there. We just
have to keep working on it and I appreciate Mark sort of asking to have this brought forward today just because I think it's important to know that we are working on that information. >> Well certainly enrollment is going to drive pretty much everything.
You need to know how how many kids are going to go to the school in order to know how big a school you need, >> right? Well, like I say, the the the shortterm answer is it's $150 a $150 square feet per student. Uh we have
about uh in in district right now roughly 2900 I believe enrolled. Let's say 3,000, you know, so we should have roughly uh 450,000 square feet of space >> total though. You're talking about the
whole school district. >> Whole district. Now, we currently have 500 >> 624. >> Yeah. >> 624 kids. >> 624. So, we have a little bit of maybe spare space. >> Mhm.
>> Is there because I I I I there was a very long letter from Dr. Smith in our package and um the the MS now we it's not the library >> MSBA MSBA >> they have their own um way of
calculating the enrollment >> right >> is is that why you're here is to suggest that that's we need to look harder at >> we again we just I we cannot change their rules >> right >> it's their rules uh but I think again
having the information about an alternative approach, maybe say, you know, we maybe we're going to reccalibrate our thinking a little bit. And again, this is this is really for probably 25 years down the road. If you look at the so one of the interesting
things about enrollment is because it's always moving forward. So we already have 1112ths of the answer for next year because you only lose one year, you add one year. So the the trends tend to move
shift more slowly than rapidly. >> Right. >> So >> I I'm also curious as to where we're supposed to where are we putting the Emmy small students. >> Well, there's 225 roughly 225
full-time uh students K through three and 75 preK. So that you just hit the nail on the head. So if you had to find space for 225
uh students going full day and 75 divided by two because it's half day so you know 30 whatever students uh for the prek program open your mind look at some some of the options we'll see what again I don't know what all those options are
but I suspect that there are options out there >> okay I just have a hard time picturing that age group at the middle school. >> So >> that's not >> that's not that's not what even anybody suggested. >> I'm glad to hear that.
>> No, it's just >> and I don't need to extend this conversation. It's just it was a statement that was made and I know we certainly had enough people at uh town meetings saying they we shouldn't have kids there. Like I said, I mean,
everybody, I mean, the select board, the finance committees, everybody, the school committee, you know, the school staff, everybody says we need to have those kids out of there ASAP. You know, the public voted that. >> Yeah. >> So, that's not the question. We do. And
again, is to Will's point, the sooner the better. >> Yeah. >> So, >> yeah. My hope, Madam Chairman, is I just wanted to at least begin this conversation here. I I had no intention that it would end here. No. >> Um and there were no votes. No. But
people need to understand >> the significance of uh this enterprise that we're embarking upon. And my hope is is that when Dr. Smith has some time, we can continue this conversation, you know, with him being present and obviously all of you and and other members of of the committee if they're
interested. But I think from my point of view, um, I want to make sure that as the board's representative that this board has a real grasp of the things that we're wrestling with. And, uh, I I appreciate everybody being here tonight to at least begin the conversation and
then we can talk more about, you know, how how we move forward, how we address things. >> I think the biggest thing moving forward will be, you know, to everyone's point about the feasibility study is what do we look at, right? >> Yeah. Do you know I know we not we don't automatically need a bright shiny
building. I know everyone says you don't need we don't need everything new you know but that's an option right to to build a standalone building new behind the current location that's a possibility. There's a possibility of adding on to station avenue elementary and doing an an expansion there. um
anyone who drives any type of vehicle on station a adding an additional >> looking at me being the school bus driver >> adding an additional 380 people there at the same time I I don't know how I feel about that or looking at properties that we have um throughout the town or a site
um that that could house possibly um either the EBI small um community or you know redistricting the the town and splitting up Station Abid and Emmy Small Um, you know, the thing that concerns us about moving further and further away
from the current site is the same concern you had about the West Yarmouth Library. If you take away a school from that section of town, um, >> uh, last night they had their their school concert, their winter concert, >> there was more people in the Ken Jen
Performing Arts Center than were a town meeting. >> There wasn't one seat open. there wasn't parking as as Miss Flint probably found there wasn't parking for miles. Um that tiny school that we have has such a large community um and to
>> to take them and move them out of that area or move them too far would be a would be a concern. >> They're here. >> So >> yeah. So we we look forward to having more like I said once we get accepted and we're able to to start bidding stuff. Um, we definitely want to make
sure that you guys are up to date of where we are uh on, you know, hiring someone, getting an idea, and then, you know, making sure we're all comfortable with the feasibility study of what they're looking at. And, you know, as as Will said, everything has to be open, right? We have to look at at all the options. Um, you know, and we have
engaged the town of Dennis that, you know, we're in the process of getting on their town meeting for a feasibility study for that building. Um, celebrating a 100redy year birthday in a couple years. Um, >> hard to believe. It's it's it it is a rock. It will never fall down, but
what's inside of it? So, there's discussion of, you know, what to look at that. And as was mentioned earlier with the capital stabilization plan, you know, we have now entered our five-year capital plan into the the system the town of Yarmouth does, and we're we're working through that so that um you
know, we know what we're paying for. We know what we'll be looking for from the town. So, again, we we've we've really made sure that we're being fiscally responsible to both to both towns. Um but but we understand that there's a lot of things coming up that the town of Yarmouth has to pay on pay that we'll
have to pay and the taxpayers will have to pay. So we're cognizant of that. So that's why we we will look at all the options and again bring it to town meeting and let you know the town decide what is the best option. >> But can I ask you a quick question on on
the agreement? Um, you know, Will's quite passionate about what the need to go look at that and have you has the committee talked about this at all? >> We have we have not and and I can add that as an agenda item. Um, because the only the only people that can open up
the agreement is the school committee. So, right. >> Um, so I I haven't heard, you know, I I what I would what I would recommend is that there be a letter from each select board uh requesting and then I can add it to our agenda. Um, you know, to show that there is a a want in need.
>> That's terrific. Thank you. >> Thank you. And kudos to Dr. Smith. I'm sorry he's not here with us tonight, but um he he's a breath of fresh air and um I I don't in any way my apologies to him
as well. I there were no nothing I knew no decision was being made tonight. I knew it was just an opening of a door. Um so please send that along to Dr. Smith. the same situation him and I had is we we were we're unknown of what the
you know the full idea and purpose of this was and obviously now we know it was just a just like the same thing with we have we can't speak without speaking in front of each other so having the information having different point of views knowing knowing what's going on to date is important so we can make sure that we have
>> just so that you know yeah as long as I'm on this committee I'm going to be wanting to have a conversation with the board about all the things that we're talking about and I think it's terrific that you're able to make it and be here and partic participate. So, >> a little past my son's bedtime. That's why the concern was he might be sleeping
behind me. I can't see him, but >> Oh, he's wide awake. >> Okay. Yeah, we have plenty of chocolate on TV. >> Candy up here if you'd like some. >> I'll give him a couple. >> There you go. >> Thank you very much. Appreciate it. >> Okay. Next item we have on the agenda is
um update on the dispatch regionalization project. We've got police chief Kevin Lennon. I saw him there. And >> evening. >> Good evening. >> Evening.
>> Here he comes. >> You coming up, Scott? >> Come on up, Scott. I'll leave him a chair. I'm sure he's working his way this morning. >> It's all right. No, thank you.
>> Good evening. >> Good evening. >> Everyone here after 9ine gets double chocolate. >> My dentist was frown on that. Okay, I was Oh, here's Chief of Rescue,
too. And Assistant Chief Scott Smith. Assistant Chief. So, great to have you with us. >> Thank you. >> Hi there. >> No, we put you on so late. I'm sorry about that, guys. >> It's okay. >> Been an interesting evening.
>> I turn it over to you. >> Thank you for having us tonight. We're going to do a brief update. We like it already. >> Even briefer than you thought. >> Yes. Yes. On the uh the regional emergency communication center. So, I know we were supposed to come a couple
months ago, but uh things got stalled, but we are uh we are moving forward. We had a very positive meeting yesterday. Uh the fire chiefs met with the the three town administrators, HR directors, uh the DPW uh division commander, not commander, but uh director over at the
town of Barnesville to give us an update on where they are. There's been a lot going on in the background, especially over in the town of Barnstable. Uh so we're going to bring up a a quick uh quick update on what's going on. So just remember this all started back in 2022 when uh the town of Barnesville
approached the town of Yarmouth and the town of Sandwich and asked if we wanted to be part of a a regional dispatch center, which we agreed to. So a feasibility was done by n uh funded by 911. The study was done by the Collins Center. At the end of the study, they determined that a regional police and
fire dispatch center for the three towns was something that we should move forward with. So, what what that will do for us is we know it's going to improve our dispatch services. It's going to improve the working conditions of the dispatch staff and it's going to decrease costs for the towns. There will be a a decrease
overall. Some additional benefits, supportive supervision. I can speak for the Armouth Police Department. Right now we do not have a dedicated supervisor for our dispatch. We have sergeants that are liaison. We have a a lieutenant that's a liaison, but we do not have a supervisor who's actually a dispatcher
as well. So this regional center will allow personnel to move to the town of Barnesville and then attain positions that they will never attain at least within the Armouth Police Department. We don't have the funding for a training person. We don't have the funding for a supervisor. So, our dispatchers today
with tons and tons of experience will be able to go to another place like this center and then be able to move up. So, we'll see that co-workers support. There'll be more people working. Uh the police department, we staff two dispatchers from 8:00 in the morning until midnight. The fire department only
has one dispatcher. You go into a regional center, we're going to have multiple dispatchers working. And when that major call comes in, they're going to be able to pull additional resources. And the other nice thing about it is when we went to Ducksbury and we talked to the to the the leadership up there,
the wreck supervisor is also trained to be a dispatcher. So if it really happens like the unfortunate trench collapse that we had, they would be able to pull additional resources and then help with the uh with with handling the calls. Ability to support basic physical needs.
The center, the the design of it has a kitchen, uh, locker rooms, a gymnasium or a workout center, a recovery room. If one of our dispatchers has to handle a a very serious call, there's a place that they can go uh for a little bit of time. Um, ability to handle job complexity and
ancillary tasks, coping resources, that would be the room. Again, opportunity for promotions and supervisory positions, and then opportunities for training positions. Again, just speaking about the police department, we have a sergeant who handles all the training for our dispatchers. We would be able to take a
dispatcher, move them into the center, and then that would become their focus, working on the the day-to-day training, the uh the reertification, and then employee advancements. And chief, if there's anything you want to jump in when we go, just >> I'm good. >> So, the the milestones of the project in
July of 2022, we did the study. In 23 it was completed. Uh in March of 2023 they did a staffing analysis and cost benefit. That report was done and it became it was show that it was favorable for us to move in this direction. In July of 23 which was FY24 the town of
Barnesville has been is the host community. So they're the ones that are writing the grants. So the town of Barnesville received the grant for $373,000 for architectural services. in FY25 they got another grant for 238,000 that was
to extend the architectural services and then start looking at engineering. So while this was going on we the the chiefs we got together with uh the town administrator the town of Barnes small sandwich we went and we looked at a couple a couple sites I think where we could land the the dispatch center. We
looked at the um an area off of Bur's Way in Hyannis. We looked at where the old Hankley home center is uh kind of near um is that uh uh Anna Road right in that area. We looked at station three. Uh and where we landed was the piece of property that is next to the Barnesville
Police Department right now. And the nice piece about that that property is it's already has curb cuts out onto Finn's Lane. There's already gas, water, and electricity right there. So it's and it's would be separate from the police department, but there would be a fence
around it so that it's it's almost in the perimeter of the police department. So that location seemed to be the best. So they've been working on that. Um in May of 2025, there was a building design review meeting. So what we've been telling our staff as this is going on is that they will be involved in the
process. So, we met with the architect. We met with the designer that was hired by the town and they put up some very loose plans of what the facility could look like. And then our dispatchers were able to go in and say, "Did you think about this? Did you think about that?
Can you move this? Can you move that?" They looked at what they did up in Dubberry and we took the tour of the the rec center up in Dubberry and speaking with the the the director up there, you know, he was very he was generous to
walk us around and say if in hindsight we should have done this, in hindsight we should have done this. And they had a a more difficult process to deal with than we are because they were expanding an additional u an existing space. So they ran out of real estate because we're building this fresh. we have the
ability to to take it from a larger scale and then and kind of pull it down if we have to. So that meeting was um was very successful. Again, we allowed our employees, the ones that are going to be working in the facility, actually sit there and have input on what it's going to look like and how it's going to
function. And then in FY26, they received another grant for 861,000. That is to um excuse me, that's going to be uh coming up. uh that is for more architectural and design services and then an executive director position. So
we just the next line right there that that's actually updated. They posted the position yesterday. >> So in working with the town of Barnstable, they drafted it up. They sent it over to um to Sarah O'Reilly who then sent it out to the town administrator and the chiefs. We got a
chance to look at it, did some research on our own, made some suggestions on what we thought the position should entail, and then put it back over to the town of Barnesville. They agreed to it and it's been posted. >> All right. >> So, the so the goal is to have the position filled by the end of January.
We will be a part of the interview process. So, in the meeting yesterday, the town administrators and HRs, they talked about how that process should go and what it would look like and who would be involved. So the chiefs will be on at least one panel to when they So
the idea would be get the applications in, have HR, the three HR directors review the applications, make sure we're getting the most suitable candidate, put it to a panel of chiefs, the interview is done, and then make a recommendation to the town administrators for the final person to be picked. So, if all goes
well, that position could be filled by February or March and then we'll start moving on developing operational committees and then start getting a little bit deeper into the weeds on what happens after that. So, the the next big grant, the application is going to be
due roughly March and if everything goes well, that grant will be for the beginning of the construction of the the project, which will be a couple million dollars. 911 will only fund what you can get done in a fiscal year. So there's a lot of work to be done, but we are
moving uh at a at a pretty good clip right now. There's been work going on in the background, more for the town of Barnesville because again, they're the host agency. So we have been supporting them as needed. Uh but now once we once the executive director is picked, that
person's going to be charged with really getting everything up and running, taking over the over the grant because no department uh the town of Barnes has been doing a great job, but the fire chief and the police chief, they don't have the bandwidth in their within their departments to take on this. So, we're looking for a subject matter expert to
take it to the next level and really start getting us going. And then once we get that that happening with the grant for the for the building, we then have to start working on policies and procedures uh SOPs because we're going
to take the fire is is better at at at their policy shifting from to department to department versus police because we're just we're not as we're not as coordinated as they are. We're a little bit different. Some still use 10 codes, other use plain language. Barnesville may have a different code for a car stop
than Yarmouth does and sandwich does. So we need to start working on all of that together and that is stuff that has to happen in the background while the planning is going on. We talked about a subcommittee for radios and technology. I was at a meeting last week looking at three different uh CAD vendors for our
dispatch and records management. Pick a vendor. It's 18 months to 24 months to get that program up and running. So there's a lot of work that needs to be done, but I think we're we're in a good position right now. We are moving forward. The the hiring of the executive
director is going to be key and that pro that position is funded through the grant. So right now there's no expense to any any municipality at this point. >> That's good news. >> Well, the great thing then is your executive director is going to be on board when you need the most right at
the very beginning to get everything um shaped. Well, that was the thought process and and a lot of that came from from Chief Burke from Hyannis and and Chief Chalice that they that they want to have that person on board. The person's going to be a a department head for the town of Barnstable. And we want
that person to come in and be able to have their their say and and as things move forward, instead of getting a bunch of things going, then taking somebody and dropping them in and say, "Here, we've already done this for you. Now you figure it out." The person's going to come on and they're going to work with
us in conjunction with us. So the position reports directly to the to the town manager in Barnstable, but there's an operations committee of the the chiefs from each town that work with that individual to make sure that we are all of our interests are being met and that we're moving in the right direction.
>> That's fantastic. Any questions? Mark, >> can you can you explain who the chiefs are that are on the committee, the names? Who are they? >> Uh the Yarmmouth Police Chief and the Armouth Fire Chief. >> Okay. >> The Barnesville Chief, uh Chief Jeannie Chalice. Okay. and Chief Peter Burke
from Barnesville from Hyannis Fire. >> Okay. >> Uh Chief Burke from Sandwich, no relation behind me. And then and then the Sandwich Police Chief. >> Very good. >> Chief Burke, do you have anything to say? It's great that to have you here in Yarmouth. Uh and and we very much
appreciate all your hard work um not just in your own community, but representing chiefs in the fire community around the Cape and around the region and and the nation. and you do a great job and it's great to have you here and it's great to have you involved in this project quite frankly. >> Very excited, very supportive. This is a
great group to work with. So, this is one of the big things of my career that uh we want to see happen. >> Yeah% behind it. >> Yeah. Thank you for all your help. >> Thank you. Does anyone have any questions? Joyce, >> I have one little one of Chief Lennon.
What's an SOP? >> Oh, sorry. Standard operating procedure >> policy procedure SOP. So it's we're like if you get a call, this is how you respond. So police are a little we're a little more a little different than than the fire. The fire service, I would say
they're a little more organized than we are when it comes to stuff like that because >> their trucks are bigger. >> Yeah. >> They have a lot of mutual aid. >> No questions. Just it's always so great to have you all here. >> Thank you.
>> Oh, it's wonderful. Sorry we kept you up so late. >> It's all right. I would say probably six months we could probably uh plan on coming back and have a little more information. The director will be appointed at that time and maybe maybe bring that person in to to just talk about where we are. But
>> if I could just say, Madam Chair, I think that would be terrific. I think this is this is one of the projects that we've been sort of starving to learn more. And so it it it is great that you're here tonight, but don't be don't don't let the fact that we stay up late and intimidate you. >> Um no, we >> we'll try to put you early on the
agenda. Yeah, we can we can certainly do that. And uh but we appreciate this. I think getting an update on the design of the of the building and how that's progressing. I think that would be a big help. And definitely meeting the the executive director. I think that would be a great a great opportunity as well. So, >> it was so exciting to be able to go to
Ducksbury and see it in operation that day >> and to think that we're going to have that for the future here in the Cape is just tremendous. >> Thank you. We look forward to it. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. strong work. >> Okay, moving on. No, I'm
>> staying here. >> Burn building transfer. I think um >> I think our fire chief is probably staying right where he is. >> Just making room. I didn't say much in the last one. So, >> there you go. >> Now you get to talk. >> So, Madam Chair, I'm going to excuse
myself from this discussion. >> Mhm. >> Okay, everybody's coming. >> Joy. going to talk more. >> Yeah. >> Oh my. We got the whole group coming up here.
>> Auspicious group here. >> All right. Thank you, Madam Chair. Uh for those that don't know me, I'm Michael Dutton. I'm the new county administrator. I say new. I've been there for a little over a year. Um and this project has really uh taken center stage for a number of years
uh within the county. and we are here to give you a little bit of good news. Uh for those uh who haven't been on on the board for a while, this project uh started in earnest, I think back in 2017. Um and uh and is just about at uh
fruition and completion and ready to be turned over to the town of Yarmas, which is very exciting uh for the group sitting at this table. So, I will introduce uh former uh state fire marshal Steve Conn who can give you a little bit of the background um of the
building and then uh and then the the chiefs can talk a little bit about um the agreements they have regionally and Paul Rousalo who's our assets and uh infrastructure manager if you have any questions excuse me about the building itself um he can certainly answer some
of those. So, I'll turn it over to Steve. >> Thank you, Michael. I was sitting here in 2022 when we first uh met with the board and at that time uh the former fire chief Simmonian had worked with us with the at
the county level and had offered the site behind uh station three. Um, as Michael said, this started back in 2017 when I had just retired as state fire marshall and myself and another gentleman from the county wrote a FEMA
grant and were awarded $600,000 to uh have a structural burn building within Barnesville County. At the time, the intent was to have it be the centerpiece of the rebuilding of the old uh Barnesville County Fire Academy in
Hyannis behind the airport, but as a result of environmental issues that had had uh been uncovered uncovered over there, uh the facility was was shuttered and with the pandemic on the doorstep
and not being able to get uh contractors who were DAM certified to move the project around. Here we are almost into 2026 and we still are in the process of getting this completed. But as Michael
said, it's a very um good report tonight. We thank the board for the willingness of Yarmouth to accept this building, the location of it, and we have gone forward and been able to complete the building with the exception
of the live fire component that will have to come um as part of phase two. But it's very clear that the building as it sits there now should not remain vacant. It's got uh tremendous capability today for the regional fire
service community of the county to use it and train on it and the chief will talk about that uh in in a moment. Are we going to show that short video or the pictures of the building too? >> Sure. >> No, just let's just go forward to it.
Yeah. So, this is what the the building looks like uh now completed behind the uh station 3. It was designed to simulate a basic two and a halfstory building very typical of the type of structure that you would find uh here on
the Cape and with an attached garage and the chiefs would speak to the fact that many times fires occur in attached garages that then extend into the home. So the scenarios that can be built around this are are very realistic. So,
the building is is totally completed now uh structurally. If you can move forward there, chief. Just a closeup picture of it. >> What's on the roof? >> Um that those are just panels that there's
nothing. It's not like solar or anything like that. It's just the construction of the building. Got you. >> And uh the stairwell that goes up to the back allows for training to occur and entry into that building from a standpoint of tactics from a second floor. Um
>> and this is a couple shots of the inside of the building. The one on the right is the interior of the second floor which is open for search and rescue and other evolutions. The picture on the on on the left hand side uh what you see there as
as an uh something attached to the wall and then white tubing is the uh zero visibility smoke system. This is a water-based system. It's it's the same as what you would find if you went to a theatrical ex uh uh setting. Um it's
non-toxic. it it's it's not anything that would uh cause any injury upon inhalation to firefighters and it dissipates extremely quickly. So, it isn't going to morph out into any type of a neighborhood environment. It's very safe. But what it does allow us to do is
to get that building down to zero visibility, which is very important for fire training because that's the environment that they have to enter a structural fire. this we did some testing over there few months ago and again the picture on on
the left is the actual building that's the the look of the smoke when it when it exits the building uh after being fully charged inside with firefighters going in the picture on the on the right I've added to this and this is the next phase of our of our our project and
that's to get the live fire into the building so that that is a picture of what it would look like when one of the props which is fed by propane and think of it as no more than a backyard barbecue grill on steroids because that's really what it is. It's just a
large uh propane driven fire. Uh no contaminants, there's no runoff, there's no uh overhaul necessary to dispose of anything that had been burned. It's a very clean environment. And what we hope to have at when we're finished here is a
a burner on the first floor and also on the second floor. There are two burn rooms in the building. And if we just show you a very short video, this is what would happen. This would simulate a kitchen fire. Well, that's a bedroom fire, excuse me.
And that simulates a flashover where fire gets up into the ceiling and then comes across. So it's a very challenging fire for firefighters to deal with. And if we do the one on the right, we injected some smoke into this. So that's
what would be both with a smoke fil with a live fire in that room. Chief, so I would just end by saying that most of the funding that has come since the FEMA grant has been as a
result of a legislative earmark that Barnstable County has been successful in getting each year and very much thankful to the senator and representatives from the county um who have fought for that earmark year after year at the state house. So, in talking to the fire
marshall's office today, the next round of that earmark should be available to us within the next two to three weeks. Uh the county uh office will process and manage that, but it's going to allow us now to get into getting that live fire
into the building itself. So, at a time I would hope in the near future, which I might say would be 12 months out, you know, maybe you'd like to join us when it's totally finished with with phase two. But the real point tonight is that to get this buildings in the hands of
the fire service and let the chiefs and their training officers do what they can do best and expose their firefighters to the training. And I think the chief will talk about that for a moment here. >> All right. Thank you. Thank you. And and I I just want to uh you know, I I would
feel terrible not mentioning the level of uh effort and help that I've gotten from the people that are sitting next to me now because we we wouldn't be here. And and the marshall has been relentless in getting this cause done and his passion for this is is remarkable. And uh obviously with with Michael joining
us, this project was well in hand uh when I started here in 2023, but uh the building that you see standing now was literally a pile in the parking lot behind the behind the station. and uh we're there now and and we're getting to the point where it's getting exciting. Uh and Chief Burke from Sandwich uh
who's part uh representing the Cape Islands Fire Chiefs Association who have been really important in pulling this all together because it's going to be a regional project. Um and then obviously with with uh the assistant chief and the deputy chief now here uh the other piece with that is that it's going to directly
benefit the Yarmouth Fire Department uh in allowing us to do a lot of training inhouse and and also allow us to share that as a regional asset. So we can we can do a lot of training uh with our mutual aid partners like you brought up before. >> Excuse me, Chief, for interrupting you for one second, but would you like to
introduce your new deputy chief? >> Sure. Sure. Sorry, he's hiding back here, but uh it's not official official, but we're we're making him we're putting him to work already. But uh this is Lieutenant McMahon, who's been uh promoted as of uh the the end of this month will be the the new deputy chief
of training, which is uh fitting for what we're doing here. >> Welcome. >> Thank you. And congratulations to Scott, assistant chief. >> Yeah, it's great. Um, so just to kind of go through this
quickly because I know uh we've been here all night is uh just to talk about uh just about uh the type of training we'll be doing there. Uh and I think we listed a lot of interior search and rescue which we can do without the fire portion but obviously the fire portion makes it uh a lot more realistic and and
fun I guess is the other way to look at it. But the uh the uh also a lot of mayday down firefighter rescue uh ground and aerial ladder placement. uh you know the building will allow us to to to be a lot of realistic training scenarios by using our ground ladders uh and also
working off of our aerial apparatus. Um obviously host handling is a big piece of that uh and and with the smoke and with everything else. It really allows us to train in a very realistic environment and where we have to manage the door and allow uh all that is is a key component to how you know you know
you train how you want the actual event to go and if it's a lot more realistic it it makes us better. Um, so navigating the smoke, live fire. Um, and it does also allow some technical rescue aspects with repelling uh and roof entry type uh work. And the way the building is
designed also allows for some for a lot of like creativity and and designing uh scenarios for for us to train our firefighters. >> Great. So I I the chief mentioned Chief Burke, but I think it is important that we do realize that he's done tremendous
work with the other fire chiefs across the county so that there is a total partnership here. And maybe if you could just speak to that for a moment. >> Yeah, real quick. So I've been involved from the beginning eight years. I was in front of this board four years ago with the initial agreement. So for the board
members to understand all Cape departments are in including the islands all paying the same fee. So there's a kind of a entrance fee and then when you use the building there's another set of fees. No impact to the town of Yarmouth you're the host. Um but we have complete
buyin. We've had significant chief turnover in the last four or five years. Doesn't matter. Each department that comes in with a new chief are all bought in because this is a regional asset, centrally located this side of the bridge, state-of-the-art, safe, clean
technology. So, there is just 100% support. I just want to make sure that I emphasize that and the fact that the islands are involved in paying and part of this and for them to be able to come over here and use it, I think is another critical aspect. So, uh the chief's done
a great job. Marshall Conn has been the driver on this. Yarm's the perfect location for this geographically and the Cape Chiefs can't be more supportive of this moving forward. >> Thank you. >> So I think Michael that to end it the
hope is that there's an exchange, >> right? So I I started by saying that >> get to the mic for us, please. >> Um I started by saying that that you know we're sort of coming to the uh end of this long process. We've got a little bit more work to do uh with the live
fire which which uh the marshall explained. Um and our hope is that that within the next several months we can turn the building over to Yarmouth. Um and and uh so it becomes an asset of Yarmouth, the firefighters, the chiefs,
the island the islands and the and the Cape departments can use it. So that that is our hope even though there's not live fire in there currently. Um there will be um but as as the chiefs both said there's every opportunity to use that building right now for any number
of different training uh scenarios. So our hope is to to turn it over. The sooner we turn it over the more more uh quickly that they can use it. So that is our that is our hope going forward. >> Okay. And if possible, I think this
evening we'd like the approval of the select board to authorize the town administrator to um prepare the documents to take control of the facility on behalf of the town. >> Okay. And um as always, I have to ask,
is there any costs to us for doing this? >> Wow, that sounds fantastic. Well, I'll entertain a motion. I I I make a motion that we uh approve enthusiastically what has been presented to us today. >> I think we have to be specific
>> and to authorize the town administrator to >> Oh, right. Of course. >> You could you could do it without us even and authorize the town administrator to proceed on this. >> Thank you. >> Do I have a second? >> You do. I have a couple questions >> and then we have discussion.
>> Yeah. A second. Liz, >> um, after the concerns at the previous fire academy fire facility, what will there be any spraying of the chemicals for putting the fires out?
>> No, ma'am. Just water. >> Just water. >> Just water. >> And I I tried to emphasize and I I think it's important that this is new technology. This is state-of-the-art. This is as clean as you can get when it comes to fire training. the older
academy and many of them around the state and around the country um burn straw and and wood pallets. >> Yeah. >> And it's very realistic and it's needed for the type of training that that thosemies do. But we recognized very
early on in conversation with the town manager and with others that because this is Barnesville County and because of any concerns that would come with the aquifer and water or anything else that this is strictly the barbecue on steroids
water-based theatrical smoke >> in water. >> Okay. >> And there's nothing more to it than that. >> Great. Happy to hear it. But it's a very important question and because the environment is very important to all of us too, even the ones that wear the uniforms.
>> Yes. Yes, indeed. In fact, we've had conversations about our concern over the uniforms themselves and the effects they've had on fire workers. And administratively, um, who's going to be in charge of booking the sessions and so on?
>> Um, sure. So, it'll be handled through the Armouth Fire Department, specifically through uh through our training officer, our training deputy, and you know, we're going to work uh out exactly how we do all that. You know, it's going to be uh you know, we use a similar facility and we've been using it
because of of a lack of resource here in Fall River and New Bedford. So, we kind of understand how that works and uh we do have agreements through the the Capeen Islands Fire Chief's Association that so they'll book through us, they'll pay us. It'll all be managed through through ours.
>> Okay. So, there's a fee involved with it and so the time that you're putting in on that administration will be compensated. >> Yes. Yeah. No, there's an annual assessment um that'll go towards that uh and also to any repairs or any other work that we need to do to the building. Um, and then there's an actual use fee
for the day. >> Gotcha. Thank you. >> Y, >> it's so exciting to have so many talented firefighters here. >> Any questions? >> I have no questions. Thank you. >> Neither do I. So, we'll call for a vote. >> All those in favor? >> I
>> I opposed. Mark is abstaining on this vote. >> Sure. >> And thank you all very much. We appreciate you being up here. It's official. >> Thank you. Thank you very much. and Scott and Chris, congratulations on
your new roles. >> Okay, next on the agenda, we have a discussion vote on the National Grid Gas Storage tank replacement. Thank you for your patience for waiting all this time. >> We're kind of not doing it at the time we said we would be doing it.
>> Isn't an hour saw you pacing. >> Yeah. >> Trying desperately to stay awake. >> I don't do well sitting still, you know. >> Oh, there you go. >> Hope he hit you up for a little help. Thank you. Thank you uh to the select
board. My name is Matthew O'Brien. Um I'm representing uh National Grid in the project uh as the outreach coordinator, outreach specialist. Um joining me today is uh Brendan Maloney. He's the project manager and uh Joe Carroll, our
community uh guru here. Um so we'll try to uh keep it brief. I know it's been a a long night, but um really been eager to to sit before the board and just uh provide some information on what the companies identified as a really
important project and need for um both the town of Yarmouth and the Cape. So, um you know, briefly going to run through our presentation here on the South Yarmouth LG tank replacement. Um just from a ge geographical standpoint,
you know, if you focus on the map there, that shows um our supply chain um and you'll see on the far right um is our South Yarmouth. That green dot is South Yarmouth tank located on W's Path. Uh serves about 120,000 customers on Cape
Cod using pipeline gas. Um the South Yarmouth LG tank and some small portable operations. Um, geographically, you know, Cape Cod customers are at the end of the supply chain. Um, and the South Arm LG tank is the critical backs stop
for ensuring that the reliability um ensuring the reliability of gas service to these customers. So, in terms of uh the supply, you know, the gas uh in the tank is in liquid form. Um, it's been the tank itself has
been in operation since 1972. And on the coldest days of each year, the gas is then vaporized and sent through our pipes to supplement the typical volume used to serve customers on the Cape. Um, in fact, the tank provides more than 2/3 of the gas needed to serve the
approximately 30,000 customers located within our service territory to the east of the facility. And without this gas, it would be difficult to reliably serve uh winter heating customers on Cape Cod.
So, in terms of uh the project need, uh the LG tank has been in service since the early 1970s and is regularly inspected. Um the most recent series of inspections indicated that the tank is approaching its uh useful uh the end of
its useful life. Um the inability to operate the facility during the winter months would lead to the containment of like I said approximately 30,000 uh gas customers. uh east of Yarmouth. Um as you can see, Brewster, Cadam, Dennis,
Eastam, Harwitchen all the way up to Orleans. Um so in in an effort to uh solve this, we explored a series of options. Um just going through, you know, we first kind of looked at utilizing
portable LG. Um, we found that there was an insufficient amount of LG trucks available during the winter to meet customer needs without South Yarmouth supplies. Um, then we kind of or then we looked at uh new gas transmission. Um, but there's no new proposed gas
transmission pipelines in the area. Um and thirdly we uh looked at electric conversion and energy efficiency but um there's a low probability of customer conversion to electricity and an inability to address this with uh gas
energy efficiency. So what we landed on was um the tank replacement project and um it's the only remaining viable solution that the company uh saw and to maintain supply for our existing customers.
So, uh, our proposal is an on-site replacement of the existing 2.1 million gallon tank with a new 1.7 million gallon tank. Um, that's approximately a 20% reduction in volume. And because of the need to ensure continuity of
service, the new tank's going to be uh built adjacent to the existing tank and then um the old tank will be decommissioned um once the new tank is operational. Um, while the new tank's smaller in capacity, it's going to be taller to
comply with enhanced safety requirements that were not in effect when the original tank was built in the 1970s. Um, this uh project that we're proposing is going to take uh approximately two years. So, we have some um visual uh here
you'll see the existing structure. Um, as you can see, it's it's uh built below grade. So, there's a trench and um it's located, if you can if you can see kind of in the top right, um there's the existing structure is the larger white
and then up to the right is the proposed new tank on on our site. And this is a simulation of the new tank. Um just to highlight um you'll see the trench that I explained in the previous image. Um this tank is going to
be built what's considered ongrade. Um so there was no need for trenching or any other safety uh requirements. Um here you'll see a visual simulation of what the current aerial view depicts.
There's the old tank. And then this is what you know we've uh the visual excuse me visual simulation of the new tank. Um you'll see it in the top right there. Um and then you'll see we have um safety uh fire road upgrades
um to the north um that you'll see there's a little bit of uh um clearing involved within our property for the upgraded safety requirements. And then finally, this is once the old old tank is decommissioned. Um this is
the aerial view um with the new tank, fire road, um >> storm water protection in the bottom bottom right there. So, in terms of next steps, um this is why I was uh eager to present to the board. This kicks off our community
engagement. So, you know, this um this is going to be where I'm going to go out into the community, explain the project need, um introduce the project scope, take community input. um you know uh Brendan and the team we're going to be onboarding construction and construction
and engineering vendors and uh completing our design and going forward you know I'm going to be point of contact within the community um in terms of all outreach and and you know we'll begin our communication schedule um it begins really with a website that we'll
share with the town um where folks if they have any questions you know all updates would be posted on there and then you know subsequently recently mailed um and or handd delivered by myself to the neighborhood. Um so as we as we continue to to develop um and and
move forward with this project, you know, the community will be updated um in accordance with any new construction developments or anything >> in this town. We have some very active neighborhood associations. So is that your one of your goals is to go out then
and to meet with each of the associations? >> Absolutely. of Butters, >> Butters, neighborhood associations. Um, really anyone anyone that is interested, you know, we we cast a wide net starting with the the neighborhood. Um, but it
will, you know, extend to those associations. Yes. >> Part of the process was actually meeting with the fire. We on a regular yearly basis, they they bring their apparatus around >> for training visually on that. We actually just completed a training gas
uh training effort with them at their station. So we went to them just to go through gather some input from that. Obviously the building commission going through this that next step was to come here from anformational and and this is all collaboration. We we we just want to
engage everybody and as Matt mentioned that next step is going further onto that. So it's it's just a simple steps keep going but it's going to be you know kind of growing up from that end. >> So >> when I mention the neighborhood associations I mean beyond the abutters
I mean the town of Yarmouth. I mean because when folks hear that there's going to be a gas tank replacement in town. I think they all need to be informed. >> We're here for all the community from that end. As Matt Zorn he he has that in. Billy and my team we're all here
from that side. Um and it it's as we just experienced some cold days, you know, it's a vital component on it and and what we're trying to do is the prudent step. Um we listened to a lot of dialogue tonight going through and and
what we're trying to do is be proactive. So we're not here saying, "Hey, time out. We got to be we got to be doing something totally different, right? We have to do it quick. We have to go this." What we're trying to do is engage everyone in the town from where it is.
So I walked through the steps. Yeah. And it's just not just the butters. We have a butters right there. It's all commercial on that side. But we're going through everything from that end. So it's that concept. >> Yes. Actually, keeping you here tonight was actually a good learning experience for you on community contact.
>> It was it was uh Yes. It was very enlightening, engaging, and uh I've learned a lot. Um >> the other thing I'll add too is we do open houses as part of our outreach. So um you know it's a lot of information gathering in the beginning from this
point on. Um so we we rely on multiple different you know outlets from an outreach standpoint. Again like I said the website really it can be shared with the town. you know, it really starts that process and then we have a dedicated communication schedule and part of that is, you know, meeting with
those community organizations, um, having open houses, you know, hosting where we can really go in depth on the project, bringing project experts in. Um, so the the the point and just to piggyback off what Joe said, it is really to start at start here with the
information. Um, and then every step of the way just make sure that the the community that's in my capacity that the community is aware of what's what's going on. Um, >> okay, Mark. >> Um, thank you. It's great to see you.
Um, I I can attest firsthand to uh National Grid's commitment to community involvement and community engagement. I appreciate um your approach to this job. Um, I've seen I've seen National Grid sort of in in action and uh I I very
very much think that uh this is it's it's you know I don't think we'll tax you as as much as we taxed everybody uh this evening. But um I think um the fact that you're accessible, you'll be doing open houses, you're doing the outreach, knocking on doors, letting people know
what's going on, I think is terrific. And I think it's terrific that the grid is heavily involved in up up updating its infrastructure. This has been an ongoing process that the co that the the company has been engaged in for many many years. It's uh it's it's incredible
the amount of investment in new modern uh safer infrastructure. It's just amazing what's been going on. So it it's it's great that you're doing this here in Yarmouth. Uh I I certainly appreciate what you're doing and I appreciate your
approach. Uh, it's great. So, thank you. >> Now, do we have a vote to make? I I noticed that there was something about a vote on our agenda. Do you need a vote from us? No. >> Okay, that's good. Thank you. >> Comments, Liz?
>> Um, yes. I just want I noticed that the the new tanks can be slightly smaller in capacity. >> Yes. And I think that's great because right down the road you have the Capeite Compact who's working feverishly to get us to not use so much gas and to get
more uh renewables going. And when I go home tonight and I start my gas fired fireplace, I'm going to whisper, "Thank you, National Grid." >> No, that is critical, right? And as a company, we're we're falling along that. But
>> as we all know and have seen >> to get to that final point where everyone's reaching is a little bit off in the distance >> and and we need to at least ensure that our current customers >> Oh yeah. >> are comfortable where they are
especially as this cold starts coming. >> Yes. And it's coming. It's here. And I would also note that National Grid is the funer, partial funder of our energy manager that we now have here in Yarmouth, our part-timer.
>> No, we as as Mark mentioned, we we we try to step forward in the community and be part of it. Um I know we've done and there was some, you know, earlier questions, we've done a lot of um customer advocacy meetings in and around the Cape. I think we've reached probably
around a dozen already in and around trying to make sure everyone's comfortable learn the new things from that end. Um I know that you know recently some of the stuff a lot of hits have been coming on on food. Uh we just made a $25,000 to the uh Cape Cod food
pantry as well to you know from that end. So it's it's something to be part of you know the community. Again as as Matt mentioned >> um this is just that step. We want to involve everybody through doing this. >> So, >> thank you, Joyce. Um, Mr. Frell, could
you make sure that whoever um does the uh publicity for the open houses um sends an invitation um to the select board? I think we would love to come. >> Oh, yeah. No question. >> Absolutely. Yeah. Like I said, I mean, the website is, you know, we we typically will share it with the town so
that, you know, if if things get posted that we post, you know, it can just be another um avenue for for folks to get eyes on it. So, we certainly every every invite, you know, every update will be going to the select board as well.
>> And for the scope of this project, Matt is, you know, that's a point of contact and and doing all that while we still have myself and and Billy, I know Billy Se has been, you know, heavy involved. So, you have multiple points in that one, but you'll be updated with it all. I >> think you need a few more guys in
tomorrow, the next time you come. few more people. >> We didn't have any uniform, so that was, you know, >> I do know as as just being on the project, um, you know, I can speak to the work that the project teams put in.
So, um, you know, Brendan Brendan was eager to to join us as well and, uh, you know, there's been a lot of study and examination on this from a engineering standpoint. So, >> thank you. >> Well, thank you very much. Appreciate it. >> Thank you. >> Thank you.
Thank you. >> Thank you. >> And take some fuel with you. >> Thank you. >> Some candy there. >> I already >> It'll keep me up. Yeah, you >> already took a few. >> Okay. At this point, I will turn it over to our appointment chair.
>> Thank you, Madam Chair. Um, we have a robust list tonight. Um, first I'd like to propose um uh I I'll give them a chance to get out. >> There you go. Thank you.
>> So, for anyone who's been worried about the well-being of the energy committee, we are doing really well. Uh we're up to six members of the um well with this with the two proposed tonight, we're up to six members of the seven maximum. Um
I'd like to propose uh Barry Margolan as uh a member of the energy committee. Um a three-year regular appointment that would run from January 1st, 2026 to December 31st, 2028.
Second. >> Did you make a move? So we need a motion. >> So moved. >> Yep. >> So moved. >> Discussion. >> Second. >> Yep. >> All in favor? >> I. >> Thank you. Then also for the energy committee. Um and also a returning
member from a previous year. Um I'd like to nominate Susan Starky for a regular three-year appointment to run from January 1st, 2026 to December through December 31st, 2028.
So moved. Second. Any discussion? All in favor? >> I. >> Now this next paragraph is all people um from the planning board to represent planning on other committees. The dates
are all the same except for the final one. Would you like me to make a combined motion? >> That sounds wonderful. >> Okay. I nominate um as planning board representative positions, Deredrick
Gakrin to community housing committee, Joanne Crowley to community preservation committee, Peter Slovac to the design review committee, Susan Brida to the drive-in utilization committee. I didn't even know we still had that. um and to
the library building committee, Ken Smith to the land disposition committee and water resource advisory committee. Will Rubenstein to the community and economic development committee um and those would be for this calendar year uh
January 1st through December 31st of uh 2026. >> So moved. >> Second. >> Discussion. >> All in favor? >> I. Then one final appointment um from the planning board uh to another
committee and that's Tom Pendleton to the capital budget committee and that will be made effective May 1st 2026 to run through December 31st 2026. The odd timing is because of the devotion of our
volunteers. Somebody who's leaving the committee has a project to finish and is going to work through April on it. Okay. >> So moved. >> Second. >> Uh discussion. >> No. >> All in favor? >> I.
>> Okay. Then exciting. We move down to um the public arts committee and our very first appointments. Um I'd like to propose Maryanne Agressi um for a regular three-year appointment to run from January 1st, 2026 to December 31st,
2028. >> So moved. >> Second. discussion. All in favor? >> Thank you. And I'd also like to propose Mary Vilburn um for a regular appointment of two years to run from
January 2026 to December of 2027. >> So moved. >> Second discussion. >> All in favor? >> I. >> Then finally, we have reappoints of two constables. Um, Constable Paul Rooney
and uh, Constable John D. Circum, both currently serving to be reappointed for calendar year 2026, January 1st through December 31st. >> So moved. >> Second discussion. All in favor?
>> I. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you very much. Now we'll move on to the approval of the minutes for the February 4th, 2025 meeting. >> I move we approve this the minutes February 4th, 2025.
>> Do I have a second? >> Second. >> Discussion. All in favor? >> I. >> Wonderful. That's passed. And moving on to upcoming agenda review. Um, one thing that Joyce has brought up is that
unfortunately she would not be available for the 13th of January and is asking if there's a possibility that we could move it to either January 20th or >> the energy manager update. You mean
>> the energy manager update? >> Meeting? Oh. Oh, the meeting. >> Oh, the whole meeting. >> The whole meeting. >> Okay. How does everyone feel about moving it from January 13th to January 20th? Anyone going away on vacation or anything? >> So that's the Tuesday following the
Martin Luther King Day holiday >> or the 27th. >> Funny to have the two meetings >> would be a lot harder. That's >> that that's further away. I think that it would be better to do January 20th. >> Yeah. I can't make it.
>> You can't make it. I have another commitment that night. >> Okay. >> Well, I can I can zoom in. I'll be zoom >> I'll be zooming in January 6th and January 13th because when we made these plans, I never thought there'd be two um
two adjacent weeks in January. >> Well, we'll keep them the way they are then. Sorry, Joyce. >> Let's hope that you >> I'll just have a little squeaky electronic voice. Let's just hope that you don't uh cause the fires out in LA the way you did the
last time you were out there. >> I didn't bring them. I swear we looked down from the plate and saw it. >> Okay, moving on uh to the agenda items. Uh how does the meeting look then for January 6?
We have the golf fees hearing, annual fees review hearing, which I think is great having that on because we did say we wanted to make the commitment to having that a January um every year going forward. So that's great to see that we have um attended it for a budget
workshop and then discussion economic development uh community and economic development committee update special event funding recommendations and discussion on title five tax credits.
>> Did is that pretty well filled up then? I would say that um >> the budget workshop and everything that's going to be a >> that's going to be a big meeting especially the economic development I think because this is going to be our first chance to really start talking
>> with the new people >> about where we're going from here. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Um I I would like to propose that we add in the consent agenda for that night um a a letter of support to the attorney
general in support of our zoning bylaw changes. uh those were sent to the attorney general and I think it would be helpful for the board to be weigh in in support of those zoning amendments. So I'd be happy >> consent agenda. So >> as a consent agenda, I don't want a discussion on it. It's not necessary
because we we've already there's no need to do that. But having I'm I'm happy to work with the administrator on a draft letter if that's okay. >> That sounds great, Mark. >> Thank you. >> Okay. >> Okay. And depending on on where grant
deadlines fall, I would love to have um an update from the energy manager, but it may be that there are no deadlines in the in in the winter. It may be that they're spring, but I just would love to know what's going on. Um because there
are all sorts of grants that I'd love to hear what she thought of. >> The energy manager is on the 13th choice. Oh, well, I'll I'll I'll listen and I'll talk in in a little squeaky voice. >> There you go.
>> Okay. Any any um updates? >> Well, um before we move on, I just wondered there was a priority on the discussion of the parks and buildings, mostly the parks management. And that was supposed to be priority
because we we're going to be having >> where do we have that slated somewhere? No. on our agenda. >> We I don't think so. >> Well, I think what I would recommend I I would agree with Liz that it needs to be a priority. We just need to find a place to stick it and I think we need to
really work with the administrator on when to bring it up because there are two major park related topics. One is having we can't open up the uh the drive-in site until we have a plan for the management and the use of that.
>> Right. That's what we were thinking. >> Right. that's been hanging out there for a while. And um >> you know, Kathy's been wicked busy on so many other things that my sense is is that part of the challenge in getting it all done is just staff time. And uh I'm
not sure it needs to be set up so that we can I'd like to deal with that and have a broader discussion about how we're managing and handling park issues across the board because um it continually comes up you know especially
on the park areas that have invasives fragmitees and and and other sort of I would say more heavy maintenance. But I think it's been a while since we've talked about our parks and how they're being managed and how they're upkeep. >> Yeah.
>> And and we we may very well have to have a conversation with the administration. It may very well be that there may be more staff or more resources needed >> uh to support that. Um >> we should probably go through our budget workshop first. >> So do that on the 13th. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah.
>> So I would I would defer to the I think you're rushing it. I I think let's go through that and then let's let's pick a time and figure out And in in addition, I I know that um we're starting the project now of working on developing
some um proposed policies for the management and operation of the new Parker River Landing Park, but that's not going to be done by the 13th. So, we need a little more time to do that. And but we're working on it and we have a team. And then
>> um I you know I I think on the um on the budget we need to we need to have a a real talk >> before we start um adding positions. >> Okay. >> But I'm just saying it's it's it's going to be significant uh discussion and we
need to do it when you you feel that we'll be ready for it. Bob, >> right? >> Can we cross off regional dispatch update? Is that what we had tonight? >> Yeah. >> So that can be >> All right. get gross. >> Before we go too far, let's just resolve the park stuff. When do you think, Bob,
that's likely to be? In February or >> Yeah, I I would I would say um let's get let's do the um the budget workshop and we need to get oriented toward that and then maybe that February 3
>> meeting. >> Yeah, let's let's put that in there. Maybe a first cut at a Parker's River >> park plan. park management plan. >> Tie those together. Is that Does that make sense, Bob? >> Having the conversation together at
least. >> Yeah. I was thinking um I I have to kind of check. We don't have a draft yet on on Parker's River, but but my concern is the idea that we're going to be adding new people to just do overall park
management that we should at least start having that discussion and we should do it. we should have our budget workshop first and then start talking about that because um there's a few things we'd like to add. Um and one of the one of the big things that we've been talking
about, you know, there's facilities managers, park managers that um um honestly we don't have any money to do any of it. So I'm really really concerned. Um, >> see what I my hope is that in having a
conversation, I mean, maybe part of the argument is that we use revenues derived from activities, >> right? >> You know, in a in a fund, you know, how like we try to make sure that we can cover the cost of inspectors. >> Yeah. You know, so >> so let's put it on for February 3 and
then we'll try to be ready for it. >> Okay. >> And have a substantive discussion. >> Where's our short-term rental studies? Where's that that at? short-term rental study um >> still with you. >> We are um
>> still working on revisions, >> getting the draft prepared and then the next step is going to be presenting it to the select board. So, we just need to >> um figure out the right date. Yeah, we're going to be talking about that I think January 20 >> at the finalizing it and then so sometime
>> after January 20 we're going to have the team from the Danahghue Institute into presented to the select board hopefully with some possible recommendations. Um, so and the fair treatment is going to come back after the lawyers have
reviewed it endorsement. >> Wow. >> Is it? >> Wow. >> That's the plan. >> It is. >> It wasn't sent up the river forever.
>> You talking to me? >> Yes, I'm talking >> the question. Well, I'm not really talking to you. I'm talking to the town administrator. >> Well, no. I you know, if you guys don't want to vote it, don't put it back on your agenda, but we sent we sent it to
town council to comment on and we gave them a a summary of what the various issues and ask them to weigh in and and they're reviewing it now. So, we'll have it to at least share with you. You'll have to decide whether you want to put it back on for another >> Yeah. >> another vote. >> Yeah. Let's have that conversation. We
definitely want to hear information first. >> Yeah. Well, my my understanding is is that council actually reviewed the resolution in Bonstable. >> Exactly. >> And raised some issues. >> Oh, I didn't hear that. >> That's that's that's what I'm trying to find out. So, yeah, this we we should
>> find out what the legal what what those legal questions might be or what they are before we >> do. We know how soon we might hear. I I was not given by town council a date that he would be finished, but he um got
all the information and then he asked us to um you know, retype it, send it so it was in a Microsoft Word format so he could um make amendments and things of that nature. But I I do not know exactly when he's going to be finished with it.
>> I mean, we're still waiting on the legal review on on the comments. >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> All right. So, >> parcel by parcel, >> right? Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Do we want to have the residential exemption? >> Yeah. >> Discussion. >> I would recommend thinking through on
the timing of that. >> Yeah. >> I really I I do think >> it's not a rush job. >> No, it's it's it's it's we need to come to some consensus on how we're going to go forward with the capital projects. All right. because
>> that in and of itself. All right. >> That's a discussion that should be on the agenda, >> right? >> Is what is the uh capital projects, >> right? >> An an extension of what Bob was talking
about tonight. We we have to discuss that. >> Yeah. Should that be right after the budget workshop or >> I I think quite I'm not sure we're going to be ready for that conversation until maybe after town meeting, but we do have to >> we do have to have the next phase of
that conversation at least setting priorities. Um and I do think one of the things that was helpful is Bob had mentioned that you know that was just an initial cut at the capital projects, >> particularly the big ones, right? There have been other ones that have been
talked about. There's muck floating around out there. I think quite frankly what we're going to need to do is is and this is a collective exercise. It just can't be just unloaded on one person. But I think we should be brainstorming and thinking through what are the other
projects that are likely to come down the line. We talked before about an oceans capital or coastal capital project because we got some coastal improvements that are necessary. I think we really have to start um and and again this is all looking longterm.
Um but we one time a couple years ago we were talking about doing a coastal capital uh project. I think the run pond uh restoration project was folded into that as something. So
>> I would love to know what more is envisioned for the restoration of the upper Bass River watershed. As you know, we've been getting periodic briefings from the friends of Bass River about some of the great work that they're doing, but you know what? That translates into projects and
improvements that are needed, >> and those cost money. >> They've been getting grants for those. >> Yeah. But they there's no no one that does 100% grants anymore. >> Matching. >> You have to have matching funds. And it's again given what's going on in Washington to assume that you're going
to get grants for anything uh on the environment particularly environmental protection. I think that's something you want to be careful about. I'm not suggesting that we don't do restoration of the upper bass river wershed. Don't don't get me wrong. I just think we need
to identify those projects and get a sense of what they cost and what some of the matching requirements might be. I mean, so I'm just >> back back in my days of being the chair of uh recreation, we were hearing about the fact that there was a lot of work work that needed to be done on the
beaches, >> right? >> That capital work that needed to be done on the beaches, you know, restoring the dunes and um just some of the walkways, the uh access points to the beaches, everything else. I don't think we've really ever looked at that.
>> No. And a while ago, we did have some kind of master planning work done for Wreck. Um I'm not sure how much we finished at Sandy Pond. Is Sandy Pond done? You know, >> and we have a a new field analysis, >> right? >> No, Sandy Pond isn't done yet.
>> Yeah. The whole like what potentially could be at C. >> Lots of different options and >> Yeah. So, we we may need >> We're just covering the buildings. >> Exactly. So, we we may need to have we may not have the cost estimates on on this, but we're going to have to add
some placeholders for some other projects on this. And the thing is, if you add up, let's say there is a need to go forward with a coastal projects capital item and a wreck capital item, you know, after a while they all add up
and you could end up with a fairly significant chunk of change. >> And again, I mean, I hate to be the >> prioritize. >> Yeah. I mean, I hate to be the wet blanket or the skunk in the garden potty, but I just I think what's going on in Washington, you know, I mean, they
still have a budget and they still have appropriations bills with huge cuts in them in some areas. So, >> I just get very nervous about spending right now. >> Well, the entire environment shuttered
when Lee Zelden took over. >> Okay. >> Do we What do we do about the feasibility of the usage of MacArthur school and the finance committee? My I thought that the reason the finance committee didn't appropriate the funding
or said no at t for town meeting was because of um they didn't have some information or something. >> No, they said because the lease doesn't come due until 2035. >> They see a time a much broader they think that we've got we can deal with that later >> time to deal with that in the future. So
the idea of looking at that in the context of a library alternative, as you can see, the library alternatives really didn't get the kind of vetting and analysis that we were looking for. Um, I honestly pitched the commons on the commons and because I I I happen to
think that MacAr is an important public building and a public facility and should be repurposed for a more broader public use. I have nothing against the collaborative but at the moment they're giving a we've got all these needs and few ways of addressing them and I think
we need to you know take a broader approach. >> So um one of the things that we may want to figure out Bob is is do we need to have a discussion on the the fact that we are now going to be a season we have the option to be a seasonal community. Do we need to put that on the agenda for
a discussion in terms of what that means? >> You're supposed to vote it, aren't you? We have to vote at a town meeting, but before we do it, we need to have a conversation about it. >> And we also um >> I don't think Joyce knows that. >> Did you hear that we were that they have added >> Yes. You got to add it.
>> Yep. So with the um delta funding that's available from the commission, one of the major projects that we applied for um is to conduct an analysis of some of the benefits and whether there's
detriments to joining in with the seasonal community and to also develop ideas potentially if it is a positive to get that designation. how could we possibly leverage it? So, um, we are going to find out, I think, very quickly
if we're going to have some funds to help us do that. And I think coming into the select board and discussing it would be a great opportunity, but we need to figure out if we're going to just analyze it on our own or if it's going to be a little study that we complete. >> Okay,
>> that would be a great background thing for people to know about as we head into thinking about whether we do residential exemption. So, that's a that's a an item to stick on the list of other unscheduled items. the um
>> we're gonna we're going to be forced into having to deal with that because it requires a town meeting vote >> seasonal communities >> and um there was a request from Drew Krauss from the uh Yarmouth Housing Authority
>> to put together a committee regarding Forest Road. >> Right. So, we've got to talk about that. >> Is that an agenda item? >> An agenda item. >> Yeah. Well, that shouldn't be put off. Well, >> no, I think we have to figure out where to slot it. Um,
all right. You know, the other thing that while we're thinking of where to slot that working group, well, my sense is the sooner the better, right? >> Want to put that on January 6. >> Yeah, I think so. I think that makes sense.
>> The um Yarmouth housing. >> Yeah, we should. We're gonna have to identify a couple people to be part of a working group to sort through that whole thing, that whole. >> And then there's also the letter to the
school committee asking them to add to their agenda that they that we start working on the the regional agreement. Well, I think when um
I think we should have that as part of the broader school update and discussion. I I think given what's going on over there and given this I think having even a even a 15minute update and discussion on the agreement and what's
going on with the feasibility study and inviting, you know, I mean, if if Thomas wants to come and the superintendent want to come, that's terrific. I don't think our meetings and our discussion should be held hostage to their availability. We they should always be welcome to come to our meetings and our
discussion on school stuff. >> I think they didn't again it's communications. They didn't know about it I think is what they were saying >> and I didn't I didn't invite them. I largely wanted to use it as an agenda item for us but I also
>> I I don't want to get into this but >> just since since we're there I'll be real quick. Um, I'm not sure I'm gonna be able to continue on this committee. They meet on times when I'm teaching at the college. >> Yeah. >> All right. So, when I show up at their meetings, I come in at the almost at the end or threequarters of the way through
it. I don't think I'm serving the board well. >> Um, that's why that's the main reason why I want them wanted them to come here because I may find out my schedule at the college soon and I may find out that I can't continue on it. You're going to be raveling and wrestle with the decision of who to appoint, who to put
on there as your representative. and you need to have some idea of what's going on. >> Yeah. >> All right. So, that's that was my real purpose for this was to make sure that we can at least you have some grasp of all the varying issues that um you know,
your representative on that committee is going to have to be prepared to deal with. Like I said, I don't think >> should should we have somebody else then? >> I will know. I will know in a couple weeks when I get more information on my course schedule for next semester. >> Okay. But like I'm seeing already
they're not they're not if my schedule changes and I have more time then great. Okay, >> we'll see. I'll know soon. >> So I'm putting you on notice, Joyce, that we may have another appointment. >> Oh, well I I can dream school castles in
the sky. >> There you go. Bingo. >> So um do we want to send off the letter to the school committee? >> I think that's an item to discuss when Tracy's here. Yeah, I would put that up. >> That's something that's been a very >> Yeah, she's that's a that's a
>> pet project. >> Yeah, she's got a lot of history on this. >> Should it go on the third? Maybe >> add it to February 3rd. >> Well, it's it's you know what it would be what schools update.
>> Do you see that? and dash would be update on the feasibility study and update on you know discussing a letter letter to discuss agreement kicking off a an agreement review process >> third
>> yeah I mean shouldn't we >> schools update >> we can always move it but >> feasibility and um >> an agreement >> okay so we'll schedule our school feasibility update in agreement.
>> Are we going to try to have the um the superintendent and everyone there? >> Yeah, we should let them invite them. Let them come. >> But we need but we we need to have a conversation. >> Again, I don't want them to be the ones holding us hostage. We just need
>> Just invite them. Just say that we're doing it on the third and they're welcome to attend. Is the town common feasibility study going forward? >> We're waiting for legal counsel to give us some information on the >> all the legal title issues to the
>> Yeah, it takes time. >> Do do we have an idea of when they might do that? >> Um, I think we'd have to get an update from council. It It was supposed to be done by the end of December. Oh, which is rapidly approaching.
>> Okay. So, once we get an update on that and get some report on that, I'm sure we'll be able to work on getting a committee together. >> Now, my my recommendations to this group for a committee would be that we have people that are familiar with the site
because >> oh, those nice ladies who are in in Sipkins. >> I don't have any objection. Then there's the whole other aspect of just the the the architecture and landscape design. You know, consultant
would the principal consulting help would be on landscape architecture designing something that meets the the obligations and um provides the public benefits. I will say that as
>> Okay, I'm fading fast, folks. >> Want some more chocolate? I have to be up at >> Yeah. So, why don't we move on to individual items? >> I have one. >> Okay.
>> I checked with Susan Warner, uh, Assembly of Delegates. She reports that she's now the chair and she would um come in if she has anything that she feels is pressing and get on our agenda.
Otherwise, she wasn't going to make she she's she heard me that we she we would like more reports from her. She just didn't have much to offer right now other than she's just taken over. >> Okay, good to know. Anybody else have
any individual items? >> Nothing here. >> I'd accept a motion to accept the consent agenda. >> So moved. >> Second. All in favor? >> I >> I >> I wanted to just say that I was very excited to see on the consent agenda the
Widow Museum um is going to get some cleanup through this um um easement agreement. and I think that they're a terrific asset. I was at the museum very recently um and they were
the host for a tourism forum event and it was great. So, I'm glad that they are going to get a little cleanup and that they're working with us. >> Okay, >> Bob. >> Okay, I had a few items. Um I was going to bring up the housing authority
correspondent, so I'm glad we talked about that um already. Um, and we're just going to um mention we talked about we're going to have the budget workshop on the um January six.
Um I I think it's going to be a you know a very interesting um discussion. Uh just a couple of points. I'm I'm really concerned about the budget. Um, you know, we we did have the preliminary meeting with the um Dennis Yarmouth
Regional School District and I and I think they were pretty emphatic that um they were not, you know, considering, you know, living within two and a half percent. I think the numbers they were thrown out was something like 8%. >> So, that's a very big number. And in
addition, the the thing that um is really causing me a lot of concern um that we haven't dealt with in the past, a year when the you know, the DUI had a bump up, but also we have 30 new students um that are attending Cape Tech
>> Tech. Yeah, the tech school is a big one. and that just on the formula alone, never mind increasing their school budget, they're usually very uh costconscious, but just with the kids alone, that's $672,000.
So that's an increase >> that we would normally use to fund town departments. Uh and and then you know, so um with with those two things, um you know, we're we're way over on on the budget. So I'm really concerned. there's
a lot of initiatives we'd like to achieve. Um I'm having trouble finding any room to add anything to the budget that I know you guys would like to see in support. So just um know it's very very tight year because of those things. And in addition, you know, our revenues
um with this economy, everybody says, you know, whose fault is the economy? But um things are slowing down in terms of the nonpropy tax revenues um that type of growth that that supports us. So, um, we see costs rising, revenues
slowing, and it's going to be a very difficult budget year. So, we're I'm working on that just almost like full-time right now, trying to prepare for a submission to you um by the end of this year, which I'll have. Um, and um,
we have the meeting with the Ravoli Shy tomorrow morning at 9ine with council. >> Great. So, we'll report whatever progress that that we make, but um you know, our goal is to have some support so that we have confidence that it's not business as
usual and that um that is going to be addressed. So, that's going to be tomorrow. Now, there's another meeting tomorrow that we've been successful in getting D to grant us a regional meeting on the 0.1 foot standard for um the
groundwater mounding, which that standard that they're applying we feel just outrageously is what's costing us $35 million for the Bayberry Hills situation. and um you know they feel
that they're simply protecting the wetland resources. So you know we've got a substantial disconnect with the mass D on that issue. But >> when is that meeting? >> The meeting is going to be at um I think it's 100 p.m. And um it if you're
interested I I have a Zoom link. They >> Can you send that to me? >> I can send it to you. Yeah. >> You're going to zoom in from here? Um, yeah, I'll be here. >> Maybe I'll >> stop by. We can zoom. We can zoom in. And >> when? 1 pm. When? >> I think it's 1 pm tomorrow. Let me just
double check the time on that >> and um see if we can get that taken care of right now. Is anybody going to the Hyannis Marina party? >> Think we get that? Select board members.
>> Woohoo. >> Okay, it's 100 p.m. >> library. So, >> so if you want to if you want to just come, we can do it from >> stop by. >> I'll be here. >> So, that's the the big thing. And um No,
I just wanted to mention quickly the we had the Christmas straw. I'm glad someone brought that up. What a great opportunity. It's a good community event. And um I did as I promised. I showed up and sang spread joy, goodwill throughout the community. Um and so
that's something you don't see every day. >> Who knows? >> Is there video? >> I hope so. >> Oh, there's all kinds of video. Um Tracy Post was was all over um Facebook and social media with it when when I ever um
broke out the boss. I was doing all of the Christmas tunes and then um I I did a Bruce Springsteen song for her because I know she's a rocker and she wanted to hear that. So um that was like one of the hits of the show that so there's video of that. I know um circulating around.
>> Yeah, we got to track it down. >> I will entertain motion. >> So uh to move to adjourn second. >> All in favor? >> I thank you. Recording stopped. >> Yeah.