Recording in progress. >> Good evening everybody. Can everybody hear me? >> Hear you, Mr. Chairman? >> Yep. >> All right. Is everybody ready to go? >> Yes, we are ready. >> Okay. I think we have 6:00.
Uh, good evening everyone. My name is Sean Igo. I'm chairman of the Yamoth Zoning Board of Appeals. We will now convene the April 9th, 2026 meeting of the Yam Zoning Board of Appeals. This is a hybrid meeting is being recorded. We will begin by taking a roll call to
establish a quorum. >> Mr. Manony >> here. >> Uh, Miss Murphy >> here. >> Mr. Scanland >> here. >> Mr. Charles Steak >> present.
>> And I'm present as well. Uh, do we have one more? Mr. Mart. >> Yeah, I'm here. >> Okay. >> Broke down and showed up. >> Okay, that's great. Having established a quorum, we will now begin the meeting. Um, we have
one, two, three, we have four matters on our agenda. Uh there's going to be a couple that may take a little bit of time, so we're going to go out of order. The first matter we're going to address is petition 5223 Arino Dilva.
Properties located at 21 Woodbmine Drive, West Yarmouth. It's in an R25 zoning district and the applicant seeks a variance in section 203.5 for rear setback relief to allow two gazeos to remain 3 and 1/2 ft from the
rear lot line. Is Mr. Dilva present? >> I am. >> Okay. Good evening, Mr. Dilva. How are you tonight? >> I'm good. How are you? Good, thank you. >> Okay. So, why don't you tell us a little
bit about what's going on here and what you need. >> Okay. >> If you could speak up, Mr. Dilva. >> Oh. Oh, he asked me. >> If you can just explain what the project
is. Okay. So like um I bring out the paper before I did uh bought online the two gazebo at uh online like Amazon and I put it all together and make like a
>> Excuse me. Could you speak up please? I have >> this now. >> Yeah, I think that's better. Yeah, I did buy those two gazebo online like on Amazon and uh I just set up together and
put together one each other and I put like a we call tradition Brazilian kitchen under like a um wood stove and a wood grill
and uh Yep. >> Okay. Um, so you're here, I believe, as a result of a June 23rd, 2025 violation notice from the, uh, building commissioner's office. Is that correct?
>> Yes. >> Okay. All right. So, um, let me just read this into the record. Uh this is a violation notice dated June 23rd 2025 to Burino Dilva of 21 Woodbine
A West Jarmath. Dear Mr. Dilva, this letter constitutes a formal zoning enforcement under Massachusetts General Law Chapter 48. It has come to the attention of the building department that a shed/ gazebo has been placed on this property without the benefit of a
required permit. This is a violation of section 103.1.1 of the Yamoth zoning bylaw. 101 103.1 compliance certification.
Building structures, structures or land may not be erected, substantially altered or changed in use without certification by the building inspector that such action is in compliance within applicable zoning or without review by
him regarding whether all necessary permits have been received from those governmental agencies from which approvals required by federal, state or local law. Issuance of a building permit or certificate of use or occupancy where required under the Commonwealth of
Massachusetts state building code may serve as such certification. Failure to comply with the provisions of the B zoning bylaw may result in penalties as prescribed. These penalties under 101.3. Any person violating any of the
provisions of this bylaw shall be fined not more than $300 for each offense. Each day that such violation continues shall constitute a separate offense. You are hereby ordered to abate or correct said violation or seek relief from the
zoning board of appeals as allowed under MGL chapter 48 section 7 and section 15. You also have the right to appeal this decision with the zoning board of appeals within 30 days. Um, you're required to respond within 7
days. Questions regarding this matter may be directed to this department. Very truly, Tim Sears, uh, deputy building commissioner. Okay. So, um, you have these, uh, gazeos, you
say, and they're 3 and 1/2 ft from the rear lot line. Now, I looked at your plan and it appears you have two are these two separate buildings, >> right,
>> sir? >> Yes. >> Okay. They're two separate buildings, >> right? >> All right. Now, I saw the size of them and they both look to be less than 150 square ft. So if they're less than 150 square ft,
that means they got to be 6 feet off the real lot line. All right. If they were more than 150 square ft, they'd have to comply with the setback and they'd have to be 20 off that real lot line. So, um, right now they're 3 and 12. I guess my
first question is, um, why couldn't you just move them out 2 and 1/2 ft? Uh because I put like a uh what you call
I put a wall like one wall on one back wall and uh I put like a kind of tire and all together >> and uh that is so uh a lot of weight I can't move that way
a little bit like two and a half and I did the the grill is a like a break is uh very heavy. That's why I can't move uh two and a half like I said.
>> Okay. Okay. >> Um All right. Um I'm tell you what, I'm going to go to the board for some questions. Mr. M do you have any questions for the petitioner?
>> Uh it appears that actually both uh I won't call them sheds. I guess the gazeos or outdoor kitchen, whatever it is, um are over the septic system if I'm not mistaken. Is that correct? >> Right. >> Well, that's that's a problem in and of
itself. So, uh >> yeah, the corn is not a little over like >> you're good. the the corner is a little over on the the sub system. The corner, not not the whole not the whole thing. Just the corner. >> Not the whole thing. Well,
>> nevertheless, still uh yeah, this entire lot is apparently either paved or stoned. Is that right? >> Right. Yeah. >> Again, irrelevant. Um, but uh
I I don't think I have any more questions other than the Did you not realize that you needed to get proper permitting for these um when you built them? >> I would like it. >> Did you know you needed to get permitting? >> Right. Yes. >> Then why did you build them that way?
Because they wouldn't have been given permits. >> Oh, no. But I did not know that before I build it. >> You didn't know that? Yeah. Right. Okay. >> Sorry. >> Okay. I I don't have any other uh questions. I don't see that there's too many uh options for for moving this
to be honest with you. If they move if he moves it further from the lot line, he's even more over the septic. Um so I don't have anything else at this point. >> Okay, Mr. Scandlin.
>> Um yeah, I have no questions. Okay, Mr. Manon. >> Well, I mean, I don't have any questions either. I mean, it's it's fairly obvious what's going on here, but uh these uh gazeos,
it looks like they're they're secured to the uh the pavers, right? They're bolted down to the pavers. >> No, I just put on top. >> Looks like you got some brackets or >> No, just a Yeah, >> that secure. >> No. And and the reason you can't move
it, again, as Dick had mentioned, if you moved them forward, you'd be more over the septic system, >> right? >> Um but you are anyway. So, um >> partially. >> Yeah. >> Um but you're saying you can't move them
because you get this grill setup. >> Yeah. It's a very heavy. >> Yeah. >> Uh but that's up front, right? So, if you moved a couple feet, it the grill would just be further in in the gazebo, right? >> The grill was on the back. >> It is. Yeah. Okay. All right. Maybe I'm
seeing something. >> Yeah. If I need to move, I need to >> And then the other one you just use for storage for like lounge chairs and >> Right. Yeah. >> All right. I mean, I don't really have a lot of questions regarding I mean, it's
obvious you're you're not in compliance. So, um I'd just like to hear what the other board members say. So, I'm all set. Um >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you, >> Miss Murvy. >> How do you have access to the um subject
system through all these pavers? >> I know where the access is. >> You know where it is, >> right? The access is not under the the gazebo. The access is not under the gazebo. It's
not under the gazebo. >> It's not under the gazebo, but it's under the pavers, >> right? >> Okay. >> But I know where the the access is. >> You know where the access, >> right? >> All right. Have you had a need to to open it up?
>> No, because that's a brand new uh system and uh >> they put like >> Yeah, that's my only concern where that's located. That's all. >> Okay. And uh Mr. Schwazak,
>> no questions at this time. Thank you. >> Thank you. Well, um in terms of the septic system, that's actually a board of health matter. That's not our matter. So, if he were to move it, he would then have to go to the
board of health and talk to them. Um is there anyone in the audience that wishes to speak in favor of this petition? If so, please come to the microphone. >> No one, Mr. Chairman. >> Is there anyone who wishes to speak in opposition
to this petition? Please come to the microphone. >> There's no one, Mr. Chairman. >> Okay. Is there anything else that you'd like to add, sir? >> No, sir. Well, can I have one more question for you? Can you tell us how you meet the
criteria to qualify for a variance? >> I'm sorry, I can't understand that. >> All right. Well, okay. Now, let let me help you out with this. In order for you to qualify for a
variance, you need to show that a literal enforcement of this bylaw would create hardship, financial or otherwise. That the hardship is owing to circumstances related to soil condition, shape, or topography of such land or structures,
and especially affecting such land or structures, but not affecting generally the zoning district in which it's located. and desirable relief may be granted without either substantial detriment to the public good or nullifying or substantially deraggating from the
intent or purpose of this bylaw. Um I would respectfully suggest sir that you do not qualify. It's a self-imposed hardship. Uh um if you had come to the building
department, they would have told you that you needed to be 6 ft off, but you constructed all of this stuff and now you've got tile work and everything and you're you're really on a small lot and you're backed right up to your neighbor
in the back. Um, so while I certainly understand your situation here, I'm having a hard time justifying a variance because a variance is going to run with the land. It's not going to run
just with you. Uh, it would run to subsequent purchasers as well. Now, I suppose you could say that this would be personal to you and you could remove it when you leave or if you leave, but again, you're right up against that.
I would from a from a position of setbacks, I think you can move it. You may do some damage to your what you have in there right now, but I think physically you could move it out
to the six feet. Now, whether then you I believe you're going to have to go speak with the board of health because some of it's going to be over the septic system and they may have an issue with that. But that's not our department. That's their department.
So, I would not be able to support this petition as presented as I don't think you qualify for a variance under the bylaw. Um, I will listen to others uh chime in on that.
Mr. Martin, your thoughts? >> No, I mean I concur with that. I don't see how he how he meets the uh requisites for for variance. U it looks like the fence is way over the lot line too.
>> Uh but that's irrelevant as well. Uh but anyways I if you don't meet the criteria you don't meet the criteria and it's unfortunately and uh nobody told him you can't do that without getting permits and and the fact that the whole lot appears to be paved
in pavers or whatever the case may be is uh also problematic to u certain other things which I won't get into either. Uh okay that's all. Thank you, Mr. Scanland. Your thoughts?
>> No, I I agree with you, Mr. Chairman. Um I don't see how petitioner meets the requirement for um a variance. Um you know, but I think maybe explaining some options for him uh
going forward uh you know would uh even though there might be difficult options might be helpful. Okay. Mr. Manton, >> I uh I agree on the variance. Um
I would say that they need to be moved forward. It's a very small lot. Yeah, a very small lot there for to add these kind of structures. So, um I don't think I can support it either. >> Thank you,
>> Miss Murphy. Um, I agree with the comments. I don't think I can support it either. It um I've got some real concern about where the septic system is and how you get into that, but um I don't think I
could give a positive vote on this. >> Okay. And Mr. uh am I pronouncing that rich? Close >> better and better each time. >> Thank you. >> Um I concur with the board. Uh this is a
self-created hardship. Um it does not meet the legal threshold for a variance. >> So there was a suggestion by Mr. Scandler that we do give you some options and the options I would suggest sir is you do have the ability to move
that building as I suggested. You may create some damage to what's there, but you can physically move those buildings to comply with zoning. So, you would meet the requirements and as such, you could then go to the building department and probably get a
permit. Okay? >> Okay. >> Or you may not even need a permit. So, that's what you could do with the buildings. Now, when you're doing that, I would suggest that you get an opinion from the board of health
also because if you're going to place those over your septic systems, they may or may not have a problem with it. I don't know cuz it's not habitable space. So, I'm I'm not quite sure about that. But those are your options. >> Okay.
>> But unfortunately, uh there's there's nothing we can do for you. Now, we could not take a vote and you could ask to withdraw this petition without prejudice
and you could come back in less than two years and represent it. But by doing so, you can't appeal our decision if you disagree with it. If you want to appeal our decision, then you need to have us take a vote, which I think is going to
be a negative vote, but then that would give you the ability, if you disagreed with us, to appeal this to either the superior court or the land court. What would you like to do?
>> Yeah, I agree with you. And uh I'm going to try to move that if I can't I could uh uh I'm going to move move forward to try to get the permit.
>> Okay. Okay. And there's been no fines levied so far, right? >> No. >> Okay. All right. Well, um, so would you like us to vote on this matter? >> Just to make sure you understand, Mr.
Dilva, if if we vote and it's negative, you know, then you have to, you know, you can either appeal it to a court or you'd have to live with it. But if you withdraw your petition now, you can, you
know, without prejudice, you can represent it in another two years. So that keeps your options open. >> Okay. I can do like today like I said. >> Okay. So you'd like to withdraw it today, >> right?
>> Okay. >> Okay. If that's what you'd like to do. Do we have a motion to allow the petitioner to withdraw without prejudice? >> So made second. >> Any discussion? Hearing none, we're going to take a roll call.
Rich, how do you vote? >> Uh I. >> Barbara, >> I. >> John, >> I. >> Tim, >> I. >> Dick >> I. >> And I'm an I as well. That's uh
all in favor. None against. Uh, the petitioner is allowed to withdraw without prejudice. Um, bear in mind, sir, you're still subject to a $300 a day fine right now. You're in violation
and you did not get a vote from this board. So, you are in jeopardy of being fined. So, I would suggest that you not sit on this, okay? And take it up with the building department. All right. >> Okay. >> Okay. Thank you for your time. Have a
nice night. >> Thank you very much. >> All right. Thank you. >> Okay. The next matter we're going to take up is petition 5224. William A. Bravo, trustee of the William A. Bravo Revocable Trust. The
propertyy's located at 147 Run Pond Road in South Yarmouth. It's in an R25 zoning district and the applicant seeks a special permit per 104.3.2 for increase in height of a pre-existing non-conforming structure to construct a
second floor addition and a thirdf flooror habitable attic. Do we have the petitioner? We have them on uh Zoom. >> Yep, I am here. >> Okay. Could you uh turn on your video, please?
>> Love to as soon as I figure it out. >> Lower left hand corner to the right of your audio. >> Okay, I found the audio. >> He has to join invitation as a panelist and then he can
>> Mr. Bravo, you need to join as a panelist. You should see a button coming up on your screen. Oh, I pushed the wrong one. Sorry. Great. Now there's a video button. >> All right. Did that work? >> Yep. I see me. >> Yes, it is. >> Good evening, sir. Could you identify
yourself for the record? William A. Bravo 147. >> Okay. All right. And could you tell us about your uh petition? >> Sure. Love to. So, I purchased this
house quite a few uh 2020 uh right before the COVID pandemic and um been using it to as a summer home. Now, what I'm looking to do is in retirement, in about two years, to move
full-time down to the Cape >> and in doing so, my wife and I realize that there is literally no space for closets or anything else. So, what we would like to do is add the second story, which would have all the
bedrooms and then the first floor could be just used for a kitchen, family room, uh, stairs, and a mud room, and an extra bedroom because it's the septic is set
for four bedroomedroom dwelling. And that's kind of the the whole gist. >> Good. >> And there is a little delay in our speech back and forth, so
that's why I'm breaking my sentences. >> Do you have a uh did you submit a septic plan with your site plan? >> I see where it's going. The >> septic the septic is in the site plan there.
Okay. >> But no, I do not have a separate septic plan. No. >> No, it would be all on the same one. This is not really a septic plan, but um that's where the septic is going to be going. Go going. >> The septic is already there. It was
replaced in uh in 2020. Brand new. >> And how many bedrooms? >> How how many bedrooms does that carry? >> Four. >> Okay. The current structure has four bedrooms.
>> That house has four bedroom. >> I'm not saying they're big bedrooms, >> but there's bedrooms. >> Okay. Okay. All right. Uh I'm going to go to the board. Rich, do you have some questions for the petitioner?
Um, how much additional square footage is being added? >> So, we are adding and my architect is on the line as well. I don't know if he chimed in or not, but we are basically adding
Oh, Gordon Clark, that's who you want. Um, >> for the technician, Mr. Clark is also on the Zoom. Gordon Clark. >> Okay. >> Yeah, you just went right by his name. >> So, the current house while you're
getting him on is I think a,07. It's 26 by 40 >> if I'm not mistaken. >> 26. And so we're adding a percentage that he checked with the town on so that we didn't go over.
>> Well, I think what we'd like to know is how much how much additional square footage you're adding to the house. >> The second floor is uh directly a p pattern of what's on the first floor. So it's it's doubling the first floor.
>> And what is the first floor? Okay. Uh, I'll have to get the plans out here. >> 192. Does that sound right? 192. >> Okay. So, if we And how about what's on the
third floor? How much square footage is on that floor? >> It's un It's unfinished up there. Just there's a dormer up there, but it's unfinished attic space. >> So, if we if we approve it, we'll approve it as unfinished space.
That is correct. The idea and the reason the dormer is up there is because a house being under the max limit will still allow me to see partially the ocean. So, it's more just to go up, sit, and
look out the windows. >> So, you're not you're not planning on finishing it, though? >> No. >> So, what's going to be up there? What's the walls going to be look like up there?
walls from what I understand. And the HVAC is going to sit up there as well for the second floor. >> So I'll have a split >> heat up there. >> On the third floor or the second floor? >> The third floor. We're going to go up and sit and look at the ocean.
>> Hadn't planned on it. >> Okay. So the condition of no heat is allowed. You good with that? I'm sorry. I didn't hear the last thing you said. >> You're good with a condition if we put no heat up on the third floor.
>> Correct. If that is a requirement for this to pass, then sure. >> Okay. I'm sorry, Rich. I didn't mean to cut in front of you. Go ahead. Do you have further questions? >> Um, yeah. Uh in in relation to the um
the height increase uh what is the exact height increase the existing verse proposed? >> I guess you're looking to me to for that answer. I guess. Hold on. Can tell you the current house from the ground to the
ridge is about 16 ft. And the proposed house 33 feet I think. >> 33 >> 32 feet um 2 and 1/2 in from well that's the back that's the
rear grade. So if you average the grade from the front grade from the street grade it's 31 ft. >> Thank you. I mean the this is based on
um the existing house which had low ceilings 7T 6 finished plus or minus and the new second floor is the same thing. So it's not uh not like a 9 ft ceiling on
the first floor and 8t on the second. So it's it it's basically the minimum. >> So we're keeping the same basic footprint and height, not making anything taller.
>> Perfect. Thank you for the info. You know >> you're making the house is quite a bit higher. >> The house is quite a bit higher than the existing house. Existing house is one story. You're talking about two and a half stories.
>> That is correct. Yeah. So we need a second story so we can put the bedrooms in so we can live in it. >> Understand? But if we're just talking about the general height and the overall height that's uh uh being added to the existing structure, it's it's quite a
bit. Correct. >> I don't care where you >> I guess. Yeah. in comparison to 16 foot but not much to the other houses that are in the neighborhood since there's four or five just in neighborhood that
are twotory three half of the attic is like what we're doing as well I believe the max is four feet isn't it or am I mistaken >> maximum is 35 >> 35 >> 35 so we're we're below the max then you maximum that's correct Anything
else, Rich? >> Uh, I'm okay. Thank you. >> All right, Barbara. >> Um, so the house right now has four bedrooms. Where do you go? >> That is correct. Four and two bath. >> All right. And and the new house is
going to have how many? >> Four bedrooms. Uh, one, two and a half bath. >> Come again. What was that? >> Four bedroomedroom, two and a half bath. >> Okay. All right. Thank you. That's all.
>> Okay, John. >> And uh, so we're building on top of the existing structure. Correct. We're not raising uh, what's there now and starting from the foundation up. Is that correct? >> Correct. Okay, >> we will be we will be restudying the
first floor to 2x6 to meet all the new per regulations >> but building on the existing foundation. No changes. >> Okay, very good. Thank you. That's all I have, Mr. Chairman. >> Okay, Tim.
Um, you know, looking at the the building plans, uh, for the third floor attic, uh, it's labeled habitable attic plan, but, uh, as I understand from the prior conversation with the chairman, it's
agreed that that space will not be heated at any time. >> Is that correct? >> Is that a statement or a question? I'm sorry. >> That's a a question. That is correct. >> All right. And uh what's going to be included in there is just storage space
and uh space for the HVAC systems. >> Correct. The HVAC is going to be stationed up there to take care of the second floor. So I had two zones in the house to make it more efficient. >> And those are going to be >> storage up there.
>> I'm sorry. you were saying. >> No, to answer your question, there will be used for storage. All right. Correct. >> Um, just a technical question. So, are those going to be uh furnaces located on the on the in the attic?
>> Still working on that with my builder. >> Yeah, >> we're going to establish that. If it's going to be a single furnace, it's going to be a on demand water. >> So, we're trying to make this as efficient as possible. Mhm. >> This is kind of the our forever home, I
guess. My wife and I plan on moving down there, so we're going to do it right the first time. >> Yeah. Well, uh you're you're treading the same path I did uh a few years ago. So, I I commend you for your effort and wish you good luck. Um, I I'll just have a a concern though is that the height of
the house uh compared to your immediate neighbors is with that attic space seems to be um you'll you'll be dwarfing all the other structures in the immediate vicinity. >> Well, actually on the corner there's a
house built that is right at the 35 mark which is a monstrosity. And the other houses that compared to mine will be about the same height. >> Yeah. >> Well, >> the issue that it seems that we've run into >> Yeah.
>> on this street is that the setbacks, all the homes were scooted over to the left or to the right. So, my setback is six and a is 9.6, excuse me. It should be 15, but I do have enough room
to scoot over. However, all the other houses have no room, so I I kind of feel bad for them, but I want to live there. >> Yeah. Um, >> love the neighborhood.
>> It's a nice neighborhood. So, just going at the um uh the site plan, uh the uh I'm trying to understand this. The dark orange area is the the house. Now, what is the lighter orange areas? What are
those signifying? >> The little light areas. One of them is a stoop out the kitchen door. >> Mhm. >> The front, the bulkhead,
and there is a rinsing station. >> Yeah. >> Better known as a a beach shower. >> Great. What about on the south side of the building? What is that? the south side. There's a little box that says AC. That one. >> No, sir. That long light, you can see it
right on your plan. It runs the whole length of the house. >> A light orange. >> No, I printed out black and white. So, I apologize. The whole There's a concrete patio in
the back. There's some pavers uh pavers in the front. It's on. >> Do you favor the south side of the house? >> Is that the front of the house? >> Turn turn your plan around and show it into the camera, please.
>> If the camera can see it. >> Well, >> yeah. >> We're give me something. >> We're showing a color that is the same color that runs the length of the house. It shows it's set back 9.6 six feet off your lot line on
the south side. >> It says there's an electric meter there. >> What is that? >> So, if we're talking if how you just described it, sir, >> on that south side, there's a stock eight fence within my lot line. Then
there's obviously the lot line. There's a little AC unit. >> Oh, that's okay. >> You're getting close. What's that? What's that area that's 9.6 ft off the lot line that runs the length of the house on the south side?
>> Uh grass. >> That's grass. So that's not a foundation. Are you moving the foundation? >> No, foundation is not being moved. So what you're looking at right now doesn't change at all. >> So thank you for that clarification. That long
>> Why is it Why is it a measurement then? Because when they measured to find out my setback, >> why would they measure the grass >> for the setback? >> Why did they measure the grass? >> Yeah. >> Well, because if you're looking at the
plan, >> yeah, >> you've got the you've got a measurement from the corner of the house, >> south corner, going out to the furthest point where they put a pin, >> that's 9.6 ft. >> And what does that signify? Is that the corner of the house? That is the corner
of the house. Corner of the foundation. >> Okay. That's what we're all asking. It's the two different colors on ours. >> Oh, okay. Sorry. >> Excuse me. And then you go in and you
have another line that says 15.3. You see that line? This to the left of the 9 8 that goes up to the a new corner of the house.
God, I hate my eyes. >> No, I do not see that 15 marker. >> You don't? You see where it says fence? >> You see where it says stockgate fence? >> I do. Go from your back lot line, go up
towards the 9.8. Just before you get there, there's a line that goes up and it says 15.3 >> and it's off your lot line and it goes up to what appears to be a new corner of your house. So, I see the mound in the back that
says 16 in. I see the stockade fence. I see the 9.6 measurement from the corner to the lot line. >> Do you have the Capen Island site plan >> stamped? Yes, I do. >> Okay. Um, does this have a stamp on it
anywhere? I don't see a stamp anywhere. So, you don't have the stamp, is it? So, this is not a certified plot plan, is it? >> Actually, sir, it is. Um, so this Dolores, she was going to add it. >> Dolores was going to add >> No, Dolores was going to add the the
version. I had Cape Island sent it to me. I then sent it to her. She then included it. >> There is a John stamp there. >> There is a stamp on this one. >> You have a stamp on yours, Dick.
>> You might be looking at an old one, sir. >> Oh, that's an old stamp. Okay, maybe I am. >> Can someone explain to me those two? Do you dick? Are you showing two different uh >> I got it and you don't
>> marks. >> Yeah, we still have the those same dimensions that we're referring to, Sean. >> Right. >> Okay. So, explain to us what those two dimensions mean. Maybe your architect can.
>> I think he did. Does he have that plan? >> I do. >> What are those? Do Do you have any idea what those two uh lines mean? >> At one point um contemplated moving the house, but that
was a earlier site plan. So he filed. >> So what what do we have that's stamped then? We have a cert we have a plan that's stamped that has two different delineations of the corner of the house. one at >> I know what you have
>> one at 15. >> Yeah, it's that that was a that was I can explain that. >> It's another site plan. He he has the he has the proper site plan. He could he can always uh you know that could be >> Oh, I can explain that to you now, sir. >> That could be brought in.
>> So, one of the options that we were looking at was moving the house to put it within the setbacks. that 15 mark you're looking at setbacks on the property. So, it would have been conforming. Currently, it is non-conforming because it's only 9.6.
So, what you're looking at is the rendition of if the house moved and fell into compliance, >> that's where it would be. But since we have not moved the house >> at 9.6, Yes,
>> the other the other site plan. >> Thank you. Sorry about that. That helps. >> The other the other site plan does exist and there's copies available for the board. >> And so if we move to the other side of the house where we see the term, it's called plants,
>> right? >> Plants. Yep. >> That's not part of the foundation. >> No. No. That's everything you see on that side is lawn and the existing patio. When I bought the house, the only thing I put in were those little steppers that you see over the
lawn. >> I'm seeing. >> Okay. And um >> the whole house this way. >> So that's how contemplated. >> Well, I think we're going to need a revised plan here that gets rid of some
of these lines. If I could just um cut in for one second because I have a question. >> Uh this says that this property is located within an area having a zone
designation of an annual flood hazard zone. Uh that's uh with a map effective July 16th, 2014. Do you know if this is in a flood zone? >> It is not in a flood zone. No,
>> it's not. >> It is not. >> Okay. Does Does it say anywhere that this plan is not in a flood zone? >> It is not in a flood zone. I do not play pay play pay flood zone insurance. And when I bought >> Because the only reason why I I asked that question is this is because if it
isn't a flood zone, you're likely going to have to raise that foundation. That changes the elevation of the house and puts you over the 35. Understood? So >> absolutely agree with you. >> Well, I I'm glad you understand, but let
me just explain what might happen. >> If you did that and you built this house and you went over the 35 ft, then you'd have to come back and ask us for a variance that we might not be inclined to grant you.
>> I have a question to your statement then. >> Okay. You're saying that if this is a flood zone and I built the house and then >> and you had to raise the foundation, >> right? Okay. Completely understand. But
it's not flood zone. So, how would it change from flood zone to non- flood zone? >> Well, I don't know. I'd like to I'd like to have something on this plan that says it's not in the flood zone because I know that most of the property in this area is in a flood zone. Dick, do you know if this area right here is in a flood zone?
>> It's funny. There is one little island there of area around the end of Cranberry Lane and over toward over toward Run Pond which is not flood zone. Yeah. >> No, you're not. There is a little There's some spots in there. A lot of it's in a flood zone, but there is some spots that isn't. You may fall on it cuz
>> you're kind of at a high elevation right here up Run Pond Road. We're all familiar with where you live. >> Oh, okay. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, we know it well. Um, I'm just giving you that for just for your information because I'm I'm reading
your general notes here and >> well then something is a skew. >> Put it this way. I don't think we could take this to the building department. >> Well, the elevation of the street is 12 and a half. >> The the elevation at the street is 12.5. >> I agree with that. And I agree that we
measure from the middle from the average grade. >> Okay, we and I want to make sure we're all on the same page with that. >> We take the average grade from the street, >> which shows up. >> That's our starting point. You can go 35
up from that. And I'm looking at your plan >> and 12.5. When you run up to the top of your ridge, it shows it's 47.13, not 35.
>> So, how do you figure that out? >> You can go 35. >> Can't if I correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you can go 35 ft from the average street grade. >> Your average street grade is 12.5. Correct. That's correct.
>> Okay. Are you saying >> I think I have it on my plan. >> Are you I just have a question for you. Maybe maybe this is just a misprint. Are you when you go up and you're 47? So you're not 47 from there. You're 35 from
12 point from 12 and a half. Correct. >> It's only it's only 33. 33. And I I I closed that plan out because I have it on my computer here. But >> all right. Well, I've got 347 and A2, >> but it it's it's under
>> it should be under the cuz I when I originally did these drawings, it was from the average. >> That that's that's fine. >> It should be shown right on the plan. If you look at the plan, see the average. >> Take your word. >> I I take your word, sir. I just want to make sure we're all I see you got it on
the other side. The other side you're showing exactly 35. Well, you're showing where the 35. I'm showing where the 35 is, but >> Exactly. And you come down, you're a little lower. Okay. >> Exactly. >> It's just close. That's all. We try to be safe. >> It is close, but it is under the 35.
It's it and I took it from the 12 and a half >> and made sure we didn't go over the 35. >> All right. >> From the average street grade. >> All right. So, I guess we're all set on that. >> It should it should I would think. I mean, there was nothing and the surveyor
didn't say there was anything um about it being in any flood plane. So, usually they tell us that. >> Now, maybe you're not. Maybe you're not. And and and Mr. Martin's right. He and I I grew up down there. I He's very familiar with it. He's been selling that
area forever. He knows more about that area than anybody else I know. So, he'd be an authority on that. And there is uh there are certain parts that are in the flood zone and are some that aren't. >> Yeah, you could be out of it. But I just want to make sure that
>> you're you know proceeding with caution. We're not trying to give you a hard time. We're just trying to prevent a problem. >> Yeah. Usually it's around 11. I I believe it's probably somewhere around 11. >> All right. Okay. All right. So, we settled that and I think we settled the
issue of the uh So, just so we're all on the same page, you're building this up two and a half stories. You're 9.8 off one lot line and you're well off another. Is that fair to say?
>> Okay. All right. Correct. >> All right. I don't know who I interrupted, but uh whoever I did, I apologize. I just wanted to make sure we're all on the same page. Um, Mr. Manon, were you up? >> I don't remember. I think it was me.
>> I don't have any questions. >> I think it was on him. >> Well, do you have any questions? >> No, I'm good. Thanks. >> Barbara, did I skip over you? >> You can. >> Okay. >> I don't have to.
>> Oh, I went the other way. Okay. Okay. Which which side did I start on? It's on Rich's >> Tim, you Tim, if you have any more questions. >> Um, >> dive under the table. >> Again, just to make sure that we're all
on the same page. So, on that site plan, uh, the the that rectangle is not part of the existing foundation. >> That is correct. That's lawn. >> Okay. Um, >> well, that's where the existing
foundation is now, actually. the lighter shade. Is that what you're talking about? >> If I may, just to see where that is now. >> The the the hashtagged area that's on both the tan lighter tan and the darker orange is the existing foundation.
Correct. >> Yeah. That that that is actually the the location of the house now. >> Right. And so everything's moving a little to the north. >> No, it doesn't move at all. Well, according to the >> that was that was that was that was a
site plan which was exploratory as to what it would look like if they moved it. >> So, but I guess the question that the fact is the house is as you say 9.6 off the side off the side lot. >> Correct.
>> That is correct. >> Correct. >> All right. >> So, that's why we're asking for the variance because they don't want to move the house. >> Yeah. Yeah. All right. And I think you can do it by special permit. I don't think you need a variance for that. >> Yeah. >> All right. I have no further questions.
>> Okay. Dick, do you Dick, did we already go to you? >> No, I just snuck in there and there here and there. >> Oh, okay. You have any questions? >> Yeah, I was looking at this plan, figuring that that was the plan, but apparently it's not. Uh, you know, it
showed where it's moving into plants, which was actually putting it more in the center of the lot and more conforming. uh if you I guess you're going to rebuild or whatever or move it. Uh but that's not the case. We're sticking with the existing foundation. 9.6 on one side and and pretty good
distance on the other side. Correct. >> Yeah. I think it's 20. >> Yeah. >> 23.5. >> All right. Have you talked to your neighbor in the south to as to their uh feelings about such a high dwelling looming over their house, which I
believe is one story? >> Yeah, Nicole. and uh Dave. Yep. We see them all the time in the summertime. We tell them about additions. Talk to the neighbors across the street. So, everyone had a chance to, you know, take a look.
>> Okay. Um Okay. I think I understand what what's doing. It would be nice if we had up-to-date plans and an existing uh site plan of what's there now. would have been nice to have, but we don't. So, it's all kind of on one and changing
one way and back to another, I guess. Um, >> what I could do, if you'd like, I can send you the the old plan that uh Cape Islands did that I have the stamped version that has just the unique uh current existing footprint.
>> That would be nice. Hey, if if if the board is in inclined to support this petition tonight, what we would do is just ask that you submit a new one that shows exactly clean. Okay, >> we'll leave it at that right now. Okay,
>> I would definitely like to see that. Yeah. >> Uh, in terms of questions, I have some other comments when we get to them, but uh I don't think I have any other questions now that I understand the plan. Okay.
No more questions, sir. Is there anything else you'd like to add at this time? >> Me? >> Yes. >> Uh, no. Just as I uh to reiterate that this is uh where we plan to retire. >> Okay. >> We're hoping that we can get this
>> and move in hopefully in about two years. >> Okay. All right. Is there anyone in the audience that wishes to speak in favor of this petition? If so, please come to the microphone. >> There's no one, Mr. Chairman. >> If there's anyone in opposition to this
petition, please come to the microphone. >> And there's no one, Mr. Chairman. >> Do we have anybody with their hands raised? >> No, sir. >> Okay. And if you have nothing else to add, sir, we're going to close this uh matter to the public. open up for board
deliberation. Um, Mr. Martin, what are your thoughts? Well, I think it's an awful tall house on a very small lot. Um,
very close to its its neighbors. Um, considering they had the ability to move it to become conforming on both sides would have been a nice thing to see, I think. But I think they're understandably trying to save some money. Uh
>> about 100,000. >> Yeah, that's some money. And uh you know, it's tall, but there are a few other tall houses around there. Most of them are on lots that are a little bigger, uh but not all of them. And uh
so I guess if it's been allowed before, I guess it can be allowed again. I'd feel a lot more comfortable if this was a normal two and a half story where the uh third floor was under the, you know, more under an attic eaves and
without dormers. Um but uh I guess I guess I can live with it. >> Okay, Tim. >> Yeah, I had the similar concerns. uh es
you know citing that house you know with the three full stories when the house is on either side of them and now single story and he's 9 ft plus uh from the sideline it uh you know I don't think it
uh fits in with the established character of the neighborhood I understand that there are some other houses with a taller uh you know taller than that I mean you know have second floors and under the 35 ft, but uh they're not next to each other and they
might be on sub on uh more uh bigger lots than the one that we're talking about now. Having it right next to that house uh with a single story uh to me I think is u
does not lend itself to the character of the neighborhood. >> Okay. All right. John, you have thoughts? >> Well, regarding the previous comments, um, there are a lot of single family
ranches, one level story, one one-story houses. So, uh, but then there are, like he mentioned, there's that monstrosity on the corner that was allowed. So, um, you know, I don't know how we could deny
this petitioner. Um, so as far as that goes, you know, I'm I'm inclined to support it. >> Okay, Barbara. >> Um, I don't have any additional comments, >> Rich.
>> Uh, as the rest of the board, neighborhood impact was the one thing that came across. I do appreciate you reaching out to the neighbors, speaking with them. Exactly. But I'm inclined to support this. Okay. Okay. >> I mean, also given the fact that no one's opposing it, none of the neighbors
have opposed it. So, I mean, that that says quite a bit to me. >> If I could just add one last thing. Um, and I don't I apologize. I don't remember the name of the gentleman. He was a second one. The you you were concerned about this it
is a twotory and the single ranch on the south side, which is Nicole and Dave. the way that their house is set back and mine is forward. I'm literally looking just on top of their roof. >> Just wanted to throw that out there.
>> Thank you. >> Sure. >> They're not set back much more. A little bit, but and they're only 7 ft from the line. >> Okay. Well, this is a 60 foot wide lot. So, what is the width of the house
actually here? The width is currently 25. >> It will remain 25 >> and the length is >> it's not increasing at all. >> 42. >> No, it's going to remain the same
footprint. >> I'm sorry, what? >> It remains the same footprint. >> See? >> Oh, if that's easier to answer. Yes, same footprint. >> 26 feet. And I believe Gordon did a lovely job creating it to make it fit the neighborhood with the dormers and the
curves and the unlike the monstrosity as someone mentioned, this has a nice curve appeal. >> Yeah, I think you know what you're talking about. Um, okay. Well,
I would agree that it would probably be a good idea to kind of push it towards the center of the lot if we could. And this it does appear to be an alteration or extension and not a full raise in place. So, as an alteration and an
extension under 104.3.2 too. And uh noting the Martin bylaw, which one of our members is very familiar with because he was one who actually had this
section of bylaw inserted. Um that any any house that is within the existing footprint and goes up to 35 ft we can shall not be considered substantially
nonconforming. So, if that's the criteria we're using, and I think it is, um, I could make an argument this is actually more of a raise and replace than an alternate extend, but since it's in front of us as an alternate extend and the building
department feels it can be that way, because that'll be finally his determination on that, uh, then I I think under those criteria, I think I can support it as well. I will say I do agree. I think the architect did a very good job. I think it's in
keeping with the neighborhood as far as the style and design of Cape Cod. It appears to be very tastefully done. Um I would suggest that any motion maker be consistent with our discussions which is the condition that we would put in is
that the third floor attic space be uninhabitable and unheated. Uh certainly they can have lights up there. They need that to access their mechanicals. Um, is anybody prepared to make a motion
to that effect? >> I'll make a motion to approve the petition as presented with the condition that the third floor remain unheated >> and unfinished. >> And unfinished. >> Okay. Is there a second to that motion?
>> I'll second it. Any discussion on the motion? Hearing none, we're going to take a roll call vote. Rich, how do you vote? >> I. >> Barbara, >> I. >> John, >> I. >> Tim,
>> I. >> Dick. >> I. >> And I'm an I as well. That passes unanimously in favor. None against. Sir, once the decision is drafted, it will be clocked with the town clerk. 20 days
must then elapse. After that period runs, Dolores, our administrative assistant, will contact you. You can come pick up your special permit. We need you to take it over to the possible registry of deeds and record it and bring a copy back for our records. Do
you have any questions? >> No, but I'll probably ask Loris because I'm sure I'm going to forget. That's fine. Believe me, we ask her questions all the time. She seems to have all the answers, so don't hesitate to do that. All right. Thank you very much and good luck with your project. >> Thank you. Have a great night.
>> You, too. Bye. >> Thank you, Mr. Gord. >> Okay. Um, let's see. Next matter on our agenda is Dessert Dioro Foods Incorporated
property located at 433 437 and 439 Station Avenue in South Yarmouth. It's in a B1 APD and zone 2 zoning districts. The applicant seeks a special permit for 104
per 104.3.2 2 sub paragraph 3 104.3.5 subsection 2N C section 202.5 301.2 301.8 and 406 to raise and replace two
pre-existing non-conforming buildings with one 294 square ft building for a Taco Bell with 18 indoor seats and a drive-thru window. Good evening. >> Good evening, Mr. Chair, uh members of the board, attorney Christopher Karine
from, uh Dunning, Karine, McNichols, and Garner, and Mashby. I'm here representing the applicant, uh short name, DDO, uh Foods. Uh they are the prospective purchaser of the property and and looking to develop this, as I say, for a um 294 square foot Taco Bell
with indoor seating for 18 and a drive-thru. Um, as uh the chair indicated in the uh public hearing notice, we've applied for a special permit under uh several uh provisions of your bylaw. Uh the first being 104.3.2
subsection 3, which is your standard alteration uh extension change to a pre-existing non-conforming structure. The second section is 104.3.5 subsection 2C which is a special permit
to combine uh non-conform non-conforming lots. The third one is section 220.5 and 406. Uh that is a special permit for an eating and drinking establishment um in the aquafer and in 406 is the aquafer
protection overlay district. So, in the B1 district where we are, an eating and drinking establishment would be allowed as of right. However, because we're in the aqua aquafer protection overlay district, it requires a special permit from this board. So, 202.5 and 406. The
next section is uh 301.2 and 301.4.3, 4.3, which is your special permit required for a drive-thru window as well as to allow for a 13 foot wide travel lane where the max allowed under your bylaw is 12 ft.
The final one is section 301.8, which is a special permit required to have a drive-thru any facility associated with the drive-thru within 100 ft of a residential zone. So, I'll go into more detail of each of those sections
sections, but that's kind of the uh the over the the overview of the different sections of the by we're looking for special permit relief. The site itself is two separate lots. It's lot one and lot two uh on a plan at the Barcel County Registry of Deeds. Lot one is 433
Station A lot and it has approximately 17,05 square ft. Lot two is 437 and 439 Station Avenue consists of about 20,33 square feet. Um there also has frontage
uh lot one has frontage of about combined 371 ft along station a and old townhouse road. Lot two has approximately 119 or 100 feet of frontage along station a and about 19 feet of uh
frontage along old townhouse road. The site is currently developed with two buildings. So, at one point, lot one was a uh service station and gas station. The gas station has been abandoned for several years now, so there's just the garage. The other lot, lot two, has a um
a physical therapy office on it. So, lot one, the structure on lot one is non-conforming because it fails to meet your uh front yard setback to Oldtown House Road where 30 is required and where 16 existing and the front yard set
back to Station Avenue 75 is required and we have 49.7. So, those are the non-conformities for lot the building on lot one. The building on lot two is non-conforming as to the front yard set back to station a 75 ft required. We're
at 64.7 ft and the sideyard setback is uh 6 feet existing which is in non which is non-compliance. So there we have the two um nonconformities for lot two. Uh if you combine the two lots and you take the two buildings your lot coverage is
approximately 13.2% which is under you know the maximum. So that's not a not non-conforming as to lot coverage. So again, we are proposing uh to raise both structures to create one single structure at 2,94 square ft drive-thru
18 uh 18 seats inside. Um the new building will be 43 feet from Oldtown House Road. So we are eliminating the front yard non-conformity to Old Townhouse. We are also eliminating the sideyard setback non-conformity that's happening on lot two. And we're
obviously eliminating any setback non-conformity for the front yard for the building on lot 2 because it's being raised. We are going to um get a little bit closer to station A than what's existing by about 9 ft. But again, if you look at the lot, it's a very unique
lot where the it's going. So that's why, you know, we're getting a little bit closer. But again, we are eliminating um you know, three non-conformities otherwise. So I think that's an improvement overall. And we're actually we're going to be reducing the overall lot coverage from what I said was 13.2%
combined to 5.6%. So reducing overall coverage of structures. Um, and again, we are going to be also, as I noted, reducing the overall, I mean, the lot's basically all pavement and structures.
And so, we're making a significant reduction in the overall imperous structure by almost 7 over 7,000 square feet. So, um, I think that's a a real positive for this project. There's a lot of greenscaping, there's a lot of, uh, landscaping,
um, buffer and vegetation. So, um, and I I guess I'll be remiss because I have Nicole Dukat, who's our project engineer, next to me, and I have Scott Thornton behind me who's our u our traffic engineer. So, I apologize for not introducing them at the beginning of
my uh my presentation. Uh, the application has gone through the site review process, design review. Uh, Nicole led that uh that process, so she can certainly answer any questions the board may have with regard to uh design review or site plan review. Um,
you know, again, we're eliminating a front yard setback non-conformity to old townhouse. We're eliminating the sideyard non-conformity on lot two. We're reducing overall lot coverage. We're reducing imperous uh concrete. We're increasing green space, landscaping, vegetation. There's
improved storm water management for what what's there now. Um, proposal will recharge more water than what's happening right now. Uh we're putting in new septic system which will improve wastewater treatment. Uh we're making improvements to the uh the vehicular
access. Uh we're making improvements to pedestrian access by uh proposing sidewalks. Uh there are currently five curb cuts on this lot and we're reducing those to two curb cuts. So certainly be an improvement um there. Uh the combination of the two lots will create
a more conforming lot in the B1 zoning district. And we do think that this is compatible with the with the area. I mean, this is your business district. There's a a Wendy's, there's a stop and shop, there's other eating establishments, other commercial establishments, gas stations, and the like. So, we think that it's uh you
know, compatible there. So, just going specifically to the uh the zoning bylaws that I I brought up with respect to um needing special permit. So, the first one again 301.2 is the 12 foot wide travel lane. Again, the reason we're asking for 13 feet is because of the the
need for delivery trucks to be able to access the property. So, they do use I think the Kulkus feet is the tractor trailers. So, they need the 13 ft as opposed to the 12T. I think it's the minimum. We're requesting the minimum amount necessary um under the bylaw.
The applicant is also seeking the uh 100 feet, a special permit to be within 100 feet for the drive-thru operations. And so we need this because my understanding is there was a recent zoning uh map change. So the residential zone line is right on the property line. So there's
really nowhere we could put anything that wouldn't be within 100 ft of the line. However, I will note to this board that townhouse road, old townhouse road, station avenue obviously buffer this property. So we don't abut any residentials uh pro uh properties and
the menu boards and the stacking lanes will be over 90 ft from actually any residential property. So we're still a good distance away from any actual uh residential property but because the line is now on our along our property line we need we would need the special
permit for the 100 ft. >> Okay. And so um with respect to the combination of the losses was something that was ra raised by the building commissioner at site plan review. I may be missing something. I don't think we need it because we're
creating a conforming lot in the B1 district. This lot is going to have more than 20,000 square feet of lot area. It's going to have more than 100 ft of feet of 150 ft of frontage overall. So it conforms based on my reading of the bylaw conforms to the B1 zoning district. But he may have you know as
said he's not here so I don't know for sure but he did recommend you know he referenced it as asking for that relief but again I think I think the law complies with what the B what required in the B1 zoning district. Um and then the final thing that I'll I'll raise is in the aquifer protection overlay
district is that um you have to fi this board has to find or the applicant has to demonstrate that the project and operations as proposed will not violate federal and state standards for drinking water at the downgradient property uh boundary. Um, I'm sure Nicole can speak to this, but we're making the
representation to this board that the project operations will not affect violate federal and state standards for drinking water at the downgradient property. So, with that, um, I'm happy to answer any questions. I think based on the overall improvements to the lot, I think this is not a project that would
be substantially more detrimental to the, uh, the town, the neighborhood, the zoning district, especially given we are in a um, a beef business one district. if it wasn't for the aquaer protection overlay district eating and drinking establishments are allowed as of right
but again because we are we have to you know go before this board for the special permit. So again you know Nicole is here uh Scott is here and happy to answer any questions the board may have. >> Okay thank you very much uh for that
presentation attorney Karine. Um let me just look here. I think that you have covered a lot. Um, have you think feel that you've covered
everything uh that was brought up of concern with the uh site plan review comment sheet? >> Yes, I believe we have. We provided the board with uh Nicole's response letter to the um the site plan review uh initial comments. So, I think we've
addressed those and, you know, certainly happy to have Nicole answer anything if the board has any questions on that. >> I do want to bring up one thing, Nicole Dat, McLaren Engineering Company. Um, the plans do say 20 seats. However, we are asking for 18 seats. Um, during the
site plan review uh committee process, it was determined that we only had um we could only do 18 seats because of septic flow. So the approved we do have an approved septic system for this property for this use and property um for 18 seats. So that is something that is
different from the plans. >> So certainly if that was a if the board were inclined to approve the project and condition it on 18 >> and it and it was um Dolores helped us out with that. It was noticed as 18 seats and not >> Okay. Okay. Very good. Very good. All
right. All right. Why don't we uh start out? We will go to the board if I want to um refer which I may come back and refer to site plan review comment sheet as well as the design review comment
sheets and and the design review. Um you did see those comments council. >> Yes. Yes. >> All right. I I I know they had some questions and some concerns relative to the the colors that you you chose. Is
those colors that I know that they were looking to do more grays and whites. You had uh browns and and blacks. Uh would you like to comment on that? >> Yeah, sure. I'll I'll comment on that. Um because I was at the design review
committee and the the SPRC uh as well. Um, so we had done an initial rendering that um wasn't preferred. So I'll just put it that way. And then uh through the
process, Sarah had helped us kind of develop what we showed today, which is this one here. Um, the one thing that the Kathy Williams, the town planner, said is that she wasn't crazy about the dark
trim. However, um, when I talked to Sarah at the SPRC, she said that she she was she was okay with the dark trim only because she felt like we have gone out of our way to accommodate the style. Um,
so she was willing to give on that. Um even though she she did do felt like it was a little bit dark. Um we do have a I mean the the printing copy is always a little bit different but we do have that material board sheet. I actually have my
gra. >> I'd like you to turn to page 842 >> on your plan. I think it's the last one. That one right there. Everybody's got that one. So, these are the colors that you're proposing to use on the building,
>> correct? >> Okay. >> And it's very similar to the colors that are around there today. I I believe the Dunkin Donuts has more of a it doesn't have more of a gray tone. It has more of the warm gray instead of the um more like a sand than
>> traditional gray, cool gray. >> All right. >> Does anybody have any qu Well, we can come back to that. All right. if we need to. But everybody's seen that. If we have any comments on the the colors later on, maybe we can talk about that.
Um, why don't we go to the board for some questions? Dick, you have any questions for the petitioner? >> Uh, it looks like you're completely bulldozing the entire site for construction. Correct. >> Correct.
>> Right. Uh, has any thought been given to saving the four trees that are on Old Town House Road there? >> Your landscape plan shows them gone. >> They should normally be uh required to stay. >> See if they were located on the
>> They're kind of mediumsized trees. They're not, you know, that special. But >> yeah, I think the >> we can see them. >> I think the concern >> Yeah, you can see them on there. Those are in the right away. >> I don't see. >> And if they are in the right away, the
>> I don't see problem >> should stay there for that, too. Yeah. >> I don't I really don't see a problem with keeping them. >> Okay. >> Um we may have to modify the landscape plan just to make sure that I'll have to ask my landscaper. I do not have a green thumb, but I do know that if their trees
are too close that they'll compete with each other. So, we'll just have to look at that. >> I don't think they're too close. they show on the existing um thing plan there. >> Yeah, I >> there's one one on the north side of the site too on the which might be able to
be retained which is a fullsize tree. >> Yeah, if they're in the rightway, we can >> All right. Uh I I mean I I appreciate what's been done now. You originally trying to put this on just the one lot, the gas station. >> It barely fits. I I I think I thought
so. Yeah, >> that was real tight. >> Yeah, that gas station lot's real real tight. I mean, there was a taking there before, so it was a little bit bigger, but >> Yeah. Yeah. Uh >> given the uniqueness of the lot, >> if you put it all on that one lot, I think you'd be creating some You
wouldn't be eliminating some of these non-conformities that we're trying to >> Yeah. improve. >> Yeah. >> No, I think generally the uh I I appreciate the uh the design. I appreciate the traffic flow. Um,
so you're going to attempt to have the traffic flow coming out onto station a uh only be able to go right and the traffic flow that wants to go to stro go out on the old townhouse to the light. Is that right? >> Correct. >> Okay.
>> Although there's no you know what I mean. even though it doesn't I think you mentioned that it it doesn't really work very well at four seasons and other places where we've where we've demanded the angled uh uh e exits and people just kind of ignore it.
So I guess in one sense it doesn't matter. Uh no but I think it's uh I think that most of the rest of the landscape plan is good. I think uh I've always had a concern as to how
uh I guess they do how how the two end two drive ups merge into one and how that can be potentially problematic. >> So it actually does work well because if you think of it your drive-thru you're
waiting at a menu board so it's at a stop condition. So with your mobile pickup that that is announce go, you know, it's it's more of a yield rather than a stop. So you have a stop condition there at the drive-through window. >> Can you explain the difference between a drive-thru and a mobile pickup?
>> So a mobile pickup is you've already ordered on the app, your cell phone app, and you're just picking up where the drive-thru you're you're ordering at the menu board. >> And there's no concern with that marriage as far as you guys. No, we actually have um
there's one in Adelboroough on Pleasant Street that I had permitted. Uh there's there's a few around um that are south of Boston that we've we've already done it uh for so it hasn't been an issue on those. >> Sorry.
>> No, no problem. Uh are we taking into consideration some of the other issues brought up like the lighting plans and the uh signs we don't have yet? Correct. They're going to meet they can conform with zoning. >> The lighting plan was revised so that it
it um it met the so we didn't have to ask for relief. >> Okay. >> So where the landscape plans and landscape plans were revised, we added more landscaping. >> Okay. >> Yeah. If you see the it should have been submitted was Nicole's response to the site plan review and so it said like
lighting plan was amended and revised. Uh I think there was some landscape planning that was revised. Uh so there were the the response that we provided uh does take into account where plans were revised to address some of those comments. >> Okay. Uh
also under the building department comments at site plan that it does not appear to meet the standards uh concerning number of trees. I think that's probably the westerly boundary where you you just got some shrubs there instead of trees. >> Yeah, we we added this is this is the
second iteration. The one that's in front of you is the one that has been revised per >> Okay. So that has been revised to >> and I know Dolores has a copy of the our response to it because I can see our blue wave at the bottom of it. It's in the packet. >> Yeah. >> Oh, it's in the packet, too. Okay.
>> Okay. So, some of those questions probably be answered because I said we they noted that where they where we've made revisions that was noted. >> Yeah. It was it was recommend strongly recommended that we meet as much as we could. >> Okay. So, and and honestly, um, Desert
Deoro or DDo Foods, um, they, um, they own and operate. I I do all of their Taco Bells in New England. So, um, they, uh, they're leasing the land, but they they don't develop and run it. They
maintain all of their properties, and landscaping is one thing that they pride themselves on. So, um, they had no problem with adding more more trees. >> Okay, good. No way you like to see that I we appreciate that.
I guess I didn't see this one. >> So anyways, you're going to meet all those considerations relevant to that. >> Yeah, we we've made sure that we responded to them with this package. >> All right. I don't think I have anything
else at least now. >> Okay, Tim. >> Yeah. Um could you Dick uh alluded to it earlier that the traffic flow into and out of the uh the log. Could you explain that to me please? >> Sure. That traffic I can explain.
Anything else? That would be Scott. >> All right. So hopefully the microphone will pick me up my voice up. So um office station app. You come in you can either park or you can um go to the drive-thru for mobile pickup. Um, you
would have to circle around the buildings and go out old post for station app. If you're coming in old post, you are actually I'm sorry, this this rendering does not have um striping on it, but there is striping here that
diverts you to go uh to take a right only. Uh so you're coming around the building to get to the parking spaces or the drive-thru if you're coming in on all road. So you have the striping in your set. I do have smaller versions of this color up if
>> Yeah, I get the big one too, but it Yeah. So, uh I guess my question though is more directed towards vehicular traffic entering into the site >> uh and exiting the site. So, for instance, northbound on station A, uh
would that uh be allowed to take a left turn into the into the property? >> Yeah. >> Yes. So, that would be allowed to take a left turn into station A. Uh the only access that we're limiting is the left out and that was the concern at the SPRC. It was that left out.
>> The the left out on >> station. Okay. So that would take you continue northbound. >> Yeah. >> All right. >> And we didn't have a problem with that seeing as we had the entrance here um that could get us to the signal. And um
so there I guess uh just from recollection there's one lane northbound on station A and there's three lanes said and southbound to divert traffic left, center, right? Um do is there an
issue with uh you know at the height of the uh of the summer and and traffic patterns is there a concern where cars turning left into the property that are heading northbound on station a would uh
create uh blocking the traffic flow. >> See this is where I'm going to have to hand it over to Scott. But I do want to mention something that um there are additional driveways that we're curb cuts that we're cutting. We're removing. There's a curve cut here. There's a curb
cut here. There's a curve cut here. >> So, we're taking the two most >> furthest away driveways and closing at least three driveways. So, >> do you want me to move my stuff or >> Yeah. Chris, could you ask him to take a
microphone with him? >> Yes, absolutely. >> Thank you. near me. Okay. Yep. >> Yes. Fine. Thank you. >> Sure. Uh for the record, Scott Thornton with Vaness Associates. We prepared the traffic assessment for the project. So,
um in this area of of Station Avenue where it's headed southbound, there's the left turn lane and then in the vicinity of the site is actually where the two-way left turn lane starts. >> Mhm. So in this area, we think that
there's a sufficient space for traffic. If it needed to queue up somewhere, it could queue up in that that center turn lane area. But the based on the analysis that we did, the traffic that's turning
left uh southbound on station a that queue is pretty short. That's like a between 12 and 18 feet. So it's it's not a it's not a significant queue. There's not a lot of left turning traffic that's there. So this this lane we expect to be
open in this area. The queue on the on the through lane does go back on average to about 230 250 which is right in here. Um but we think that there's going to be sufficient room for traffic to to to
make that left turn in the height of the season. I'm sure there's going to be instances where that won't be possible, but we don't think it it'll be it shouldn't be every single cycle. It should be, you know, on an occasional
basis through here, >> every single white cycle. Um, so but what what you're describing then is that uh a car trying to turn left into the lot that's heading northbound on station might veer into
the the lane for the southbound lefthand turn >> in this in this area where the >> So you're going to have a car trying to take the lefthand turn is now going to be headtohead with a car trying to take a left turn turn southbound.
But the volume that's that's headed left that's headed south to turn left. Yeah. >> That's that's a really low volume. >> Yeah. But it's not zero. >> No. But it could be it could be less than one uh signal cycle. >> Yeah.
>> I mean it it's not a it's not a big volume at all. >> Uh and could you describe how it works on the uh Oldtown Road? >> Yeah. So this is proposed to be full access. So um so traffic would be able
to turn left in headed eastbound uh right in and then left out and right out. >> Mhm. >> All right. Um thank you. I mean you know that that's one of the concerns. Uh I thank you for
your answer. >> Sure. you know, uh, I should step back and say, um, I think this is a, you know, the development plan is is very good. I think it's very good, uh, you know, adding this new use to the property. I think, uh, you know, your
clients have done an excellent job of laying it out and whatnot. But having said that, you know, this is one of the main traffic areas in the town coming off of Route 6 and especially in the summer where people coming in uh you
know during the summer vacation, you know, you know, can see higher, you know, volumes than the average, right? I mean, the average based on, you know, the winter is very low. So um you know I think looking at peak times you know is
is a is a different issue and that's when the that's when the problems will arise. >> Yep. Yep. No I understand that. Um we did do counts in May. Um so it wasn't >> was that a Memorial Day weekend as I >> it was actually the weekend after. Oh
>> okay. >> And the week after. Um so >> and a real good stress test. >> Yeah. Huh. Um, but we don't we don't typically do that um because it's it's a it's it's not
>> allow us, >> right? It's not consistent with the with the guidelines for for doing traffic studies. >> Um, but anyway, uh May uh Maymon volumes are I think 8% above average.
>> So it's not the peak, but it's it's higher than typical. It's executive. >> All right. Thank you. >> Sure. >> Um, one other question, Mr. Karine. Um, do you know uh the lot one was was gas station filling station. Were there
underground storage tanks located at that facility? >> Yeah. And Nicole can speak to this. I they I don't know if they've been removed yet, but um >> yeah, I think um I believe they have been removed. I know that um as part of the lease agreement,
the landlord is doing any is dealing with any soil remediation that that could is possible. >> So I I guess the one question is >> we are aware that >> has a phase one environmental assessment then been been performed? >> Yes, it has. And of course it comes up
with uh the rec um but this site has been remediated for some of the the tank removals already. Um there are mon monitoring wells around the site as well. Oh, there are. >> Yeah, there are. Um so that that has already been done
>> by the the land the land owner. >> Okay. >> Who's going to retain this property? Um we're just my client's leasing it. >> Um so that that has been done. Um every they're fully aware that they have to take they will need to require be
required to sample the soil any soil that's leaving the site. Um, there's different parameters between what soil is left on site and what soil is is taken off site. If it's taken off site and it's above a certain level, then it has to be treated as hazardous
hazardous waste. And at that point, the the landlord would take care of that. >> Yeah. So, I saw on the on the construction diagrams there's areas where you're going to store the soil that's removed uh for for that uh construction. Uh that's just a a normal
stockpile. That could be stockpiling gravels or um if they do say if they do take have to remove soil on site, what they usually do is put a tarp down and put that soil on the tarp so that >> you're not contaminating other ground.
>> So, but do do we know um you're saying they're monitoring wells and there's been remediation? There has been >> for the tanks previously, but uh is >> they're at below level now. So that's why um they're not being tested now.
>> Okay. All right. Um the other thing I uh was curious about is the drive-thru hours. Uh it goes up to uh the weekend on 2 am. Is that typical for a Taco Bell restaurant or
>> Yes, that is typical. Um if towns want it to be closed earlier, um they uh what they do ask is 9 to 12 on weekdays and 9 to one. Um Mark, my
client from DDO Foods has, you know, asked if he can just he thinks that the most he's going to do is nine to one on Friday and Saturday. Uh 1:00 a.m. Uh he doesn't think that this would be a 2 a.m. area. >> A two what? >> Going to 2 am. >> Yeah.
>> So he thinks 1:00 a.m. would be sufficient for this one. >> Okay. What about midnight? >> They don't like going going down to midnight on Friday and Saturday. Yeah. >> Um, all right. Well, I mean, that's the concern, you know,
>> late taco. >> Huh? >> I said everybody needs a late taco. >> Well, you know, you get the munchies, you got to go somewhere. Right. >> Um but you know it is a concern uh you know at 2 am you know and you you're 90
ft away from a residential area but you know uh with the the streets right there and the houses right across the street that is a concern uh for disturbing uh the neighborhoods. So, if I can comment on that. Um, the menu boards, we
specifically put the menu boards so that they um they actually face this way. There's no menu boards that are order post menu boards that are facing the speakers aren't facing the residential. >> Um, and typically the speakers are at a
12 decel level. So, that's basically >> you and uh Mr. Martin talking right there. that without microphones, >> right? >> That's the the volume, right? Um at my distance. Um and then you have the
street too. So the me the menu board and an order order post are about 108 ft away. >> Uh so from the residential property line >> uh so is the window. The window is over 100. Where we get less than 100 that at that 90 ft is actually at the stacked
car. >> Yeah. >> Which is the same as parking space. It's usually not the establishment that's the problem. It's, you know, the people going in and out of the establishment of the >> But you could say the same as parking spaces, too. You know, they could be blasting music in a parking space and those are allowed to be closer to a
residential neighborhood. >> Um, all right. Uh, one last thing was the signage. Uh, is that is going to be a separate issue? Is that >> So, the signage is um provided there's a signing graphics plan that is provided
at on sheet C1. >> It's a few pages before the >> Yeah. 9 10 11. >> So, we did provide a site in graphic plan that meets the uh meets town requirements.
>> Okay. >> So, u we're not doing a pylon sign. And it's a it's a small smaller monument sign. >> Um which uh isn't typical of Taco Bell, but it is their their small monument sign. And we're only proposing one wall
sign. >> Which wall would that? >> So that would be um Oh, sorry. Are we proposing one or two? We're proposing Sorry. We're proposing two wall signs because that that is allowed. Um it is on
>> Oh, I see. So B is the location of >> sign B. >> Yes. So it would be these two sides here. >> So this this faces the corner. This faces station A. >> Mhm. And those are conforming with the >> they are. >> Okay. >> All right. Uh I have nothing further.
Thank you, >> John. Um well, a lot of my questions have been addressed, especially in the uh the traffic pattern, so thank you for that. Uh but let's talk about parking. Uh we've got 18 seats in the building uh
plus drive-thrus and mobile pickup. So my question is, how many folks uh pick up the food and eat it in the parking lot in their car? Does that happen? Does anybody know? >> So >> I don't know. This is a common This is a common
question actually when we go to planning boards and zoning boards for this. Uh so I always have my cheat sheet on this. Um and usually Mark uh Mark Mark apologizes for not being here. He's actually on vacation with his wife. So um but 60 65%
of the business is drive-thru. 30% of their business is third party. So that means GrubHub, Door Dash, Uber Eats. Um they'd be using the mobile lane. And then there's uh one parking space for them right there. Um doesn't mean
somebody else can't park there, but um and then 5% is dining room orders with 3% sitting and eating. They're really since the pandemic, they're really seeing a decline in people eating in in the
dining room areas. So they've um gone from, you know, typical Taco Bells used to be 40 seats plus and they've gone down to 20 seats and not for this one's 18, but their dining
rooms are not even half >> food and leaving or sitting in the parking lot and eating. Right. >> My question is do they have enough parking? >> Yeah, I don't see them eating. You know, I've been to them during, you know, after construction, too, just to monitor them afterwards, and you really don't
see them eating. >> Okay. >> Usually, they're eating in their car as they're driving. >> So, you you have no concerns about parking. You think it's adequate? >> I think it's adequate. >> And it does meet your bylaw. >> Yeah. Right. Right. No. Yeah. Providing. >> Just seems like so few parking spaces.
But, okay, that's all I have. Thank you. >> Bye, Barbara. Um, I had a concern about, maybe you can clarify traffic coming out on station avenue. Are they going to be able to go and you
you know north? Are they going to able to make coming out a left >> on station out? They can't take a left out. >> They can't take a left. So, is there going to be signage there? >> There's going to be signage and stripe it. Stripes striping on the um paper. people who will still try to do it. You
know, >> that's what the police off the police uh police chief said that too. And he said, "You know what? They they do it on the other driveways, too." >> Okay. Yeah. That was my concern about um patrons coming out on Station Avenue and
trying to make a left with the, you know, knowing you're right near a stop sign in a corner. I think having >> having that access to Oldtown House Road though does help us because that is the easier path of resistance. People are going to use the signal rather than
>> people take the hard way. >> Yeah. Well, there's no helping those people. >> That was my only >> They don't stop at red lights either. >> Exactly. But >> at least we'll try to make it as obvious as possible that it's not allowed. >> Okay. Okay. Thank you.
Rich. >> Uh, most of my questions were asked and answered at this point. I just curious for my own my my own knowledge. Uh, going back to Mr. Scandlin's question regarding the, uh, drive-thru, um, the decibel level at 12 dB, is that
adjustable in the unit itself? Um, I'm only asking because obviously at night sound travels more. Can you adjust that or is that just static at 12 dB? I think you can adjust it, but I can't say that you definitely can. >> No worries. I was just curious. Yeah,
>> that's a question I'm going to have to ask now. Anything else, Rich? >> That's all. >> Okay. I'd like to go back to your hours of operation. Uh if we can talk about that for a minute. Um,
the hours operation in your synopsis are 11 to 10 p.m. for indoor dining and 11 to 2:00 a.m. for drive-thru. >> That's what we're requesting. That's part of the application. >> I heard a comment that if we cut it back, then you'd cut your hours back
earlier in the day. Is that what I'm hearing? >> So, the 9:00 a.m. is for employees to come in. The Taco their Taco Bells do not serve breakfast. Never will. It's especially with the Dunkin. >> Say that again, please. >> Um, so that 9:00 a.m. is for employees
to come in. >> Yeah. >> Um, they taco the DDO Taco Bells will never serve breakfast. >> There's too much competition for breakfast. They don't make any money. So, uh, the dining room area and the drive-throughs would be 11.
>> Right. So, open to the public at 11:00 a.m. >> Yeah. And then yes. Okay. And closing at >> I'm not I'm not aware of any um and I could be wrong. >> I'm not aware of any businesses in the town of Yarmouth that are open after
midnight. Do you know of Benny? >> I don't. >> 2 a.m. is late. >> 12 a.m. Um I'm not aware of any. Uh, I believe the Wendy's is open till 12:00 a.m. Um, >> well, >> Wendy's. >> Yeah, I believe it's open till 12:00
a.m. according to the >> We'll we'll check on that, but the town of Yarmouth frowns upon anything that's late night, okay, after midnight and especially the type of stuff, and I know I like Taco
Bell myself, okay? But if you're going to have a sign that's advertised late night and you're advertising 2:00 a.m., what you're going to do is draw people over the Bass River Bridge from the bars and every other bar to come over there and eat. That's going to create a
problem in my opinion. So, I I I would not be in favor of those hours of going to uh to 2:00 a.m. I could probably support 12 at the most. So, it would be 11:00 a.m. to 12 p.m. that I could support
>> 12 a.m. >> Okay. >> Would Would the Would the chair and the board at least consider on Friday and Saturday night to 1:00 a.m. and 12:00 p.m. or 12:00 a.m. on any other night? >> Well, uh, >> I I don't I'm I'm speaking for myself
right now, but I just see 1:00 a.m. as a problem. All right. I mean, let's face it. Who's going out at 1:00 a.m. to go to Taco Bell? Someone who's been drinking, right? Can you tell me who's not or who else is?
>> Uh, people getting out of work late. Could be. >> Well, what what restaurant are they getting out of that they're going to be at Taco Bell at 1:00 a.m. in Yarmouth? >> Uh, I couldn't tell you that. Just just be speculating on my part, Mr. Chair. >> Okay. Um, so I'd have a problem beyond
midnight. Um, in terms of the turning on the in and out of station A, what I'd like to see to prevent people from taking a left out of there is a raised curb in between the out and the in.
That may present a problem since someone taking a left from going north pulling in, but maybe you can make that entrance a little wider. But I want to make sure people coming out of there are not trying to cut across three lanes of traffic to take a left
>> to go north. >> Is that something that we could do? >> So if you look at sheet VT1 turn one >> uh it's towards the end of the package. Um that
shows you our delivery truck radius. That's the reason why we don't have any medians in the center. Um, >> well, you could always Can't you bring your delivery truck in Oldtown House Road? >> We can't make the We can't um
We can't make the turn into the site from from Oldtown House Road. >> Well, then how about that? This this swooshy curve that you have coming in. I know you don't want to expand that because then that kicks you into another section of the bylaw, I think.
Um, but what if we just cut that off to make sure your truck can make that turn? >> I mean, if we can go wider with the driveway, I could probably >> wider with the in, not with the out. >> Yeah, but that's going to be I mean, you can see the width there. You're you're
still looking at that width. Um, what I could what we could possibly do is make it wider and have a mountable um island in between. >> Um,
>> well, he can drive over it. I've seen plenty of those trucks do it. >> Yeah. So, it there would be no signage in the in the island because we'd need full capacity, but and it would only be about 3 in high. >> Well, you could you could you could put
signage on the right hand side of the out. It says no left turn. >> Yeah, we already have that. >> Okay. But I'm very concerned about people coming out of there and taking a left. I'm in and out of seasons all the time.
>> Constant problem there. They told us when we gave them the the right turn only and all that. But that that wasn't going to be a problem. It's a problem there now. But they do have a center lane to turn into. And I I I will concede that that
driveway there is at the beginning of the center lane turn. So that does help you people coming out of there, >> right? Um, but that is a problem crossing there. And as Tim said, that's a very, very busy intersection right there.
Um, so I'd like to see something raised there that prohibits someone from taking a lefthand turn coming out of there. You can design it and let us know what and come back and show us what it's going to look like.
Uh, but that's a a real concern of mine. Um, another concern I have is um this sign that says Taco Bell late night. >> You're going to put a sign up that says late night.
>> That's uh that's uh Taco Bell corporate. It's a standard sign. >> Would you have a problem not putting the word late night on there? I think we'd have to go back to our client before I could commit to that. >> Okay. Well,
>> I think we need to talk to talk about corporate. I I don't think I can make that decision for >> be above my pay grade. >> Yep. >> Um and I do want to go back to the driveway, too. I I do want to if we make this driveway bigger one, >> I don't think we can because of our
turning our our radius along the curb line is going to go across our butter, which isn't allowed. Um, so and it's getting our driveway closer to the ab butter and we can't move we can't enlarge the driveway close into our site
because we're then we're impacting parking spaces. So we are kind of a little bit crunched constrained on this level. >> Oh yeah, I agree. I agree. How many employees do you have on at once?
So, let me see if they've put it on the cheat sheet, but I can tell you it's, you know, typically it's maybe four employees, three or four. Yeah, I don't have that on the cheat sheet.
So, we do have three parking spaces in the back and those were intentionally put in the back for the employees, >> but you can't tell us how many employees you have on at once. >> It's three to four. >> Okay. And uh what are the shifts that
they work? You know that? >> No, it probably varies from store to store given the the amount of peaks that they have. What do you anticipate the peak of this store to be? What time of day?
>> Uh, typically the peak is around 6:00 for the drive-thru. I think that's when our we we have done a specific drive-thru Q study for for Taco Bells and specifically DDO Taco Bells. And that peak is around 6 p.m.
>> So, you don't think this place on a Saturday with all the kids are going to be drawing people in? You wouldn't call that >> that's another peak, but you asked me what the peak was. So we, you know, if you're if you're talking about a lesser
peak, it's going to be Saturday. >> But the the >> biggest peak is six around 6 p.m. >> And your demographic, what's your demographic of the age group that eats in your restaurants? >> The majority.
I mean, it's anywhere from families to um teenagers and I mean, we do have the high school down the street. So, um probably the same demographic portion of your of your customers are going to
be young people. >> So, it's probably the same as um Wendy's up the street. So, whatever you're seeing in Wendy's, you're going to see at Taco Bell. So, and that's a good good one to to kind of go by, too. Um, as far as they,
you know, access and traffic and um and all that. >> Do you know what that Wendy's average sale price is, price point for one person? >> No. >> What's your price point? >> I had Wendy's today, Sean. It was uh it
was $13 for a combo meal. >> Okay. What's your price point, ma'am? I am the engineer. So >> Oh, I thought you said you set up like 50 of these around. >> I don't typically get asked questions
about the cost of the food there. Um, so >> well, the reason I'm asking this question is because I'm just trying to point out to you that Taco Bell is a very inexpensive place to eat. And I think the majority of people are going to be young and I think they're going to be coming in and out of there at times a
day where younger people are in there. And I also think that beyond that, when you're talking about having hours that go very late, I think the other flip side of the coin is you're going to have people that have been drinking coming in and out of there. So that's my
experience with people that I observe coming in out of Taco Bells and I observe quite a few. Um, so, uh, I I have a concern about did was there any discussion about maybe putting a
crosswalk in to accommodate the students coming from DY? >> So, we do have a sidewalk along the frontage. Um, I do need to work with the town engineer to figure out where exactly he wants the crosswalk. Um, we
envision it going further down near our driveway on Old Townhouse Road and connecting to the sidewalk there. Um, really there isn't a a safe way with that right turn lane to get uh in my mind like I do I would not want my
eighth grader crossing across that intersection at Oldtown House Road. Not with the median. >> Where are you going to cross them on uh from station AB across to get to you? cuz that side is where the high school is. >> So if you
This is probably easier to So the high school is down this way, right? It's down. >> So they would go, >> there is a crosswalk across station A on this side of the intersection and then there's a sidewalk that's that is along
Old Townhouse Road up on this side. So we'd be connected to that. So, and they can walk along the sidewalk. It is a longer route, but it's the safest route. >> What's the condition of that sidewalk on that side? You know,
>> I think it's um I mean, it's it's pavement. >> Okay. And so, where would you suggest bringing them across? So, I would suggest bringing them across at our drive,
our old townhouse driveway before it. >> So, I would suggest bringing >> You think you're going to walk down that far? >> I think it would be horrible if I did a crosswalk that was closer to that. >> I'm not sure the town would let you.
Have you had any discussions with the town engineers about this? >> Yes. So, he's the one that told me to put the the sidewalk across the all the frontage of the road. Uh, across our entire frontage,
>> a crosswalk. >> No, sidewalk. >> Sidewalks. But I'm talking about a crosswalk. >> Mhm. >> And have you spoken to him about what the permitting process and the procedure is to put in a crosswalk? No, because a sidewalk a crosswalk has
not been requested at this time. Although I anticipated that we needed one. >> Well, I it's one of the first things that came to my mind and I think it's probably I don't want
to speak for others, but I'm listening and I think it's probably the first thing that came to a number of the board members minds as well. So, I'm surprised that she hadn't considered that and figured out where the best place to put that is because I think you're going to have kids that are going to be crossing
over that road right there and that's a very busy intersection, >> which is why I would recommend doing a crosswalk at our old townhouse driveway. >> Okay. >> Is there a crossing crossing uh signal on in that intersection where
pedestrians can hit the button? Yes, >> there is for this for these approaches, but there isn't on this. >> When you say this, are you talking about across station? >> Across station across um Oldtown House
Road. Dunkin Donuts is here. So, um it's across parallel to station a here and across station a >> So, there's not one for crossing Oldtown Road uh on the uh on the west side.
>> No. And with this right turned. >> Yeah. >> I just envision people speeding around that corner. >> Yep. >> So, like I said, I have kids and that's why I try to make the safest route possible. Not that they're ever going to >> go by. Some of them don't go by. Just
like with roads, they don't go by, but that's the same thing with over here. They, you know, there's some that will just cross across station F. But we can't help that from happening. Do you have any internal signs that you're going to have to direct people
out of there to go towards Oldtown House, the Old Town House exit? And if so, what would those be? >> We don't >> after they come through the drive-thru. >> But we don't. However, there, you know, the site is small enough that you're going to be able to see both driveways.
>> We try not to sign too much there. You know, there is sign pollution if you have too many signs. I >> don't look at one don't even look at one of them. So, um we try to make sure >> So, if somebody pulls in there and they're planning on going to Yarmouthport, it's the first time they
pulled in there, you're comfortable that they're going to figure out to go out the back exit and take a left and come down to the light. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Um, well, I think it's I I I really like the
idea of improving the site. Um, but I do have these concerns about the congestion and the traffic and the ability for you to control who goes in and goes out. I I think what
you're proposing to us is not workable on the in and out on station. And I don't think you have enough, well, you may have enough internal parking spaces because I don't think many people go into Taco Bell and sit
and eat. I think it's pretty much take out and they're gone. But some people probably do. But if you do on a busy summer day and you got three or four employees that are taking up half your spaces and you only have four left, people are going to be parking anywhere
and walking in front of cars, aren't they? I do want to point out that this does meet the regulation on parking spaces. Um, I think it's sufficient for this this use. Um, so I mean I I I don't think I can say anything more than that
that is going to change your mind. >> Well, I'm just throwing this out there. You know, whether you had thought that through or there's any more room to put anything. So, I mean, you're >> you're taking up every bit of the site. >> Yep. There isn't any more room, but I
could tell you if there was I mean there are parking spaces. There's room in front of the dumpsters for employees to park. So if it does become a problem, they could actually park a couple of cars and employee cars in front of those dumpsters and then that would be um get
them out of the way if they need it. I don't necessarily believe that they would need it. >> Okay. Okay. Well, that's all I have right now. Um, is there anything else you'd like to add right now?
>> I think I'm all set. >> Is there any further questions from the board? >> One quick question. How often do you get tractor trailer deliveries? Just once a day, more than once a day? >> I think it's I believe it's once a week that they get them. Um, and they do it
not during operation hours. >> Thank you. >> Would that be after 2 a.m.? >> No, they typically try to they make sure that they're I mean there's a reason why they have the big
it's a WB67, so it's a 53 foot trailer. Yeah. So they make sure that they can stop along both all of them and they um don't go at the times where residents will be upset. Um
would it be right for that? >> So it' be doing morning deliveries. >> They would and they typically hit all the stores that same day. >> So a condition could be morning deliveries. >> It could. Yes.
>> Okay. All right. Anything else you'd like to add, uh, council? >> No, I guess I would just ask uh the the chair whether you know how you want to proceed. If you want, you know, I don't obviously don't want to put this before
the board for a vote. you have some reservations about anything, you know, we'd like to obviously work with the board to try to get this approved. Um, but if the board is comfortable with what we've proposed, you know, then certainly, you know, we're happy to go forward. >> Well, I'm going to raise some issues
with the board for discussion right now and and we'll see how they want to go. Um, I just again I've expressed my concerns about your hours of operation about whether people are going to
pay any attention to the lefthand turn coming out of the station a exit um a crosswalk, the number of parking spaces um and your signage. Okay. With the term
late night on it, I I don't I I I don't necessarily think that that's a good representation of the town of Yarmouth to have that. I've never seen a Taco Bell with a sign that said late night. I don't think your one in Hyannis has
it. >> Yeah. The one in Hyann is a combined with a Kentucky Fried Chicken. So, I'm not sure. >> That one's old school then. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Okay. This would be the only I think this would be the only standalone Taco Bell on Cape Cod. It' be the first one. >> Okay. >> Um, you know, I think we can certainly
work with the board on the operational hours. Uh, we can certainly go back, you know, if it's suggested by the board to go back to corporate or whoever makes that decision about the signage, uh, we can do that. Um, I based on what Nicole's saying, I think we're really
constricted about the the entrance and widening it. I just it doesn't seem like that's going to be feasible. Um we can do we're trying to do everything we can with signage and striping about the no left turn. Um you know I think Nicole's expressed that there is some room for
additional parking uh if necessary. So >> um I have one other question about the APD. Do does your uh you're in the APD district here, >> correct? Were you required to file any application
with the uh board of health? >> So, we were required to um submit our septic system uh plan and that has been approved. >> Okay. But what about as far as uh are
you using any type of oils or grease or anything like that? >> No. So, he did have a list of questions and um we don't have I think the limit is it's either three gallons or five gallons. It's in the um it was in his comments that were in the SPRC and we
have responded to those. There's no hazardous material. There's no storage of of um liquids that are over it's either three or five gallons per day. It's all written in that response letter. >> I I didn't even think you guys use that type of stuff anyway. So, >> no.
>> Um Okay. All right. I I don't know that I saw that, but I did want to bring it to your attention. >> And then regarding the drainage for the aquafer protection district, too. You know, that's I know it's not it wasn't specifically uh asked about at
SPRC, but um the site right now has no storm water treatment. It just has catch basins on the physical therapy lot and really nothing on this gas station lot. So, um that is a dramatic improvement. We made sure that all of our infiltration one we're infiltration
infiltrating so we're recharging the groundwater with this. We're adding in we're added adding pvious over 7,000 square feet of pvious material which again that recharges the groundwater but our underground infiltration system gives you direct access and that is
pre-treated and treated into the groundwater um which does not exist today. So that is a big additive to the site too with removing that gas station site and having a repair place that is just sheet flowing into your town's drainage. This
is a big improvement on the drainage system. >> Okay. And uh finally on your uh landscape plan, am I to assume that the whole lot of perimeter is going to be all lawn? >> Yes. >> And that's going to be maintained by
sprinkler systems. Correct. >> Correct. Okay. Okay. All right. All right. That's all I have. If there's nothing else you're you want to add, um, is there anyone in the audience that wishes to speak in favor
of this petition? >> There's no one, Mr. Chairman. >> Is there anyone in the audience that wishes to speak in opposition to this petition? >> There's no one, Mr. Chairman. >> We have anybody raising their hands? >> No, sir.
>> Okay. Then we're going to close this uh to the public, begin board deliberation. Um I I'm just going to start off here and just reiterate some of the concerns that I have. I think it's going to be very difficult to control
the turning lane going out onto station from preventing people from going north. I think the only way to do that is to have some type of a raised berm there. I hear the concern um
of the petitioner. I don't know how we address that. I suppose if we wanted to allow them to do what they're doing right now, uh we could have a one-year review, which I would suggest that if we are inclined to approve this petition that we do a
one-year review and if necessary impose further conditions on this if it becomes apparent that there's a traffic problem. >> If I may interrupt the Mr. Chair, the the applicant would be would be supportive of that type of condition.
>> Okay. Um, I don't like the idea of the hours of operation. I don't think we should allow anything past midnight. The town of Yarmouth has gone a great great distance and great length to prevent people from
coming into Yarmouth late night who have been drinking. All right. Yarmouth used to be the nightclub capital of the world. You do not find nightclubs. You do not find people that are drawn into Yarmouth who have been drinking at night. I can assure you that I think the
police department would support that idea of not having a 2:00 a.m. close for this business. I don't like the idea of putting the the term late night on a sign. I think it cheapens the town and I also think it suggests to them that they
can come in here late night and get something. Uh, I do think we need to do something about a crosswalk. I would have thought that the petitioner would have gone to the town engineering department given
it was on site plan review comment sheet and had addressed that before. I did speak with the town engineers and uh there is a process that they have to go through. I'm not sure how long it takes or what the actual process is, but I
think that should be investigated and probably the only place to put the crosswalk is where the petitioner is suggesting to put it and that would be down Old Townhouse. I don't think putting it anywhere on station A would be feasible or suggestive. I think it
would be dangerous um for both drivers and pedestrians. Um, they said that they're not going to have breakfast. Uh, I question the parking here. I think parking is going to be an issue,
especially in season. People are going to be pulling in and out of there, especially when they come off the highway. If they're pulling into Yarmouth in the middle of the summertime, they're going to go, "Oh, look, there's Taco Bell. Pull in there. We got the kids. It's a cheap place to feed everybody."
And uh so they're going to be busy at peak times. So I think we should be very cognizant of the traffic that goes in and out of there and I think we should do our best to try to control this. So uh I will wait and
listen for others. Uh Dick, what are your thoughts? >> Yeah, I I would agree with most of them. I think I I don't like the late night signage. or the after midnight operations as well. I think other restaurants have wanted to have
that and we haven't allowed them to in the past. So I don't think it makes much sense in being doing that now. Uh I I would agree with the crosswalk down old townhouse a little bit. Uh there is a crosswalk you know from you can cross
from the easterly side side of station to the westerly side and that would and then they could go down old town on that side because there is that crossing there uh right now which help is helpful. Uh but otherwise I think uh
yeah uh along with what other things uh board members have brought up and the site plan review uh has had brought up that you are agreeing to adhere to. I don't think uh I have any other uh
questions or comments. Uh Tim, >> um I'm generally in favor of the proposal. Uh but I do note your concerns, especially the hours of operation. That seems to be to me an
issue. Uh the traffic issue on the station nav is another one of my concerns. Uh but if we want to handle that um on a you know conditional approval with a one-year review
um you know I'd be comfortable with that. I'm I'm okay with the parking situation. I I believe the you know that the a majority of the traffic will be you know very temporary and a lot of drive-thru. So I don't see the the
parking as an issue. Uh I c certainly see uh utility for having that sidewalk especially given uh the school down the street. Uh that would be a good idea. >> Okay. >> Not the sidewalk. I meant the crosswalk. Sorry.
>> Crosswalk. Yeah. Okay. If >> I may. And again, Mr. Members of the board, um the applicant would accept a condition to uh if to require the applicant to work with the engineering department to site a crosswalk. Um so
we're we're willing to do that. Uh we're willing to accept a condition uh for 12 a.m. if that's all if that's what the board sees fit to do. So we're not we're not opposed to those those conditions. >> All right, John.
I'll agree with most of the comments that were made. U especially 2 am I think is is a a non-starter. Um and the exit onto station a folks are
they're going to they're going to try it. They're going to do it. So, I think a one-year review because I don't know any other any good solution to that, but a one-year review I think uh where we revisit this and uh you know, hopefully
there aren't any issues, but um I think I think it's worthy of a condition. >> That's all I have. >> Barbara, um I've just still got a lot of concern about
exiting onto Station Avenue. I I wonder if it's at all possible that that could just be on Station Avenue, an entrance and you'd have to exit onto Old Townhouse Road.
I've just got a real concern about people coming out onto Station Avenue and trying to go north. I think it's next thing to happen. >> Yeah. Yeah, that's a consideration. >> I think that would be I'm sorry to
interrupt, but if if we do a one-year review and ultimately it's determined that it is a problem, that might be a viable solution, you know. So, I think that's why, you know, would the one-year the one-year review is a, you know, a condition we can would agree to and may address, you know, we may have to
address some of those concerns that way. Right. Okay. Anything else, Barbara? >> Um, I'm just thinking about the these kids walking from the high school. How are you going to get them across that
intersection? >> There's already a crosswalk there with >> there's a crosswalk on southernly of Old Town House Road. Barbara, >> there's a crosswalk here that'll >> bring you over to Old Town House.
Yeah, but you know they're going to go right across. >> Okay, that's >> high school kids don't generally >> use their comments. >> We'll have Taco Bell go out there, Barb, and spray paint a little Taco Bell thing with an arrow going across the crosswalk
right there. >> All right. Thank you. Is it me? >> You rich. >> You want to say the last name one more time? Practice. >> There we go. Um, yeah, everything's been said. I echo a lot of the board's
statements uh for the one-year review. Um, but this is really meaningful development. Uh, I commend that it it continues a long-standing commercial use of the site. Um and on the storm water, the report shows clear improvement for existing
conditions, reduced impervious area, full infiltration, compliance with state standards. Um so I think it's a great thing for the town if we can just get these points in line. So awesome work. >> And if the if the board were to condition uh on no late night on the
sign, then I think that will make us >> it'll be easier >> it'll be easier to go back to corporate and tell them that this is the way it has to be done. So if that's we're not opposed to the board, you know, making that condition if that if that helps us get over the finish line.
>> Okay. >> Anyone else have any further comments? >> Well, I would propose that somebody make a motion that we approve the special permit as requested. uh the relief that the and on all we
don't have to take up each section of the bylaw. We can we can state that uh the petitioner has met the criteria of the bylaw underneath the sections that they have requested relief and will grant them special permit
conditioned upon. the hours of operation be 11:00 a.m. to 12 a.m. And what why don't I think well I'd like to do 10 p.m. during the week but you
know we could talk about that. I I think they're going to close anyway because there's not going to be any business during the week. So >> I think corporate requires that the taco to be open till 12:00 a.m. So >> that would be a deal breaker. >> That would be a dealbreaker. >> Okay. So, well, why don't we do 11:00 a.m. to 12:00 a.m. There'll be no
breakfast service. Um the signage shall not show late night on their signage that uh they'll have a no left turn
coming out of the exit on to station. >> Subject to a one-year review. >> Yeah. Yep. Subject to a one-year review. They will they will get with the engineering
department and devise hopefully a crosswalk and I think the town will be work with them and get them a crosswalk which I think our suggestion would be along Old Townhouse Road. I think we should weigh in on that because I don't want to see it really anywhere
else and I don't think they're going to do it anyway. But as proposed by the petitioner and I tend to agree with what they're in what the engineer says. Um and I mean the employee parking is the
employee parking. I mean we can we can take a look at that after one year as well. uh and all the other representations made that you know they're going to have their landscape plans as presented on plans with sod and plantings and
irrigation systems and as represented. Did I leave anything out >> along with the retention of the existing trees if if possible? >> If possible. >> Yeah. Did we cover everything?
>> I think so. >> Is anybody prepared to move on those conditions? >> So moved. >> Second. >> Do I have a second? >> Second. >> We have any further discussion. >> Uh Mr. Chairman, I think the only other condition you had mentioned was morning
deliveries, >> right? Morning deliveries. I think they're going to do that anyway. Yeah. But morning deliveries. Um, and the only thing that I did want to add before we take a vote is I agree
that this is a vast improvement of the site. We certainly welcome Taco Bell to the town of Yarmouth. They'll be a great addition. Everybody loves Taco Bell. Uh, what you're planning there is very
tastefully done. It's going to clean up that corner and improve uh that site. It's going to be a a a great redevelopment of that corner. And uh we only want you to have the best of
luck and the best of business and to be a a good neighbor and uh the town's people to be good customers of yours. >> Appreciate that >> and we hope everything goes smooth. >> Thank you. >> So with that, we will have the one-year review. Any further discussion
hearing? None. Rich, how do you vote? >> It's an I. >> Barbara, >> I. >> Barbara, >> I said I. >> Oh, we said I. Okay. John, >> I. >> Tim?
>> I. >> Dick. >> Hi. >> And I'm an I as well. So, that passes unanimously. Uh council, you're aware that 20 days must elapse once the decision is clocked with the town clerk. >> Yes. >> Are you uh planning on uh presenting a
draft decision for our review? >> I can I certainly can do that, Mr. Chair. >> Why don't you do that? That would be great. And if you could just email that into Dolores and uh I'll take a look at it and if it needs any touch-ups, I'll give you a call.
>> Okay. Sounds like a plan. >> All right. Thank you very much for your presentation and we wish you the best. >> Thank you everybody. Appreciate your time. >> We're going to take a fiveminut uh >> uh inter uh mission here. >> The board will stand in recess for five minutes.
>> And you have to update your cheat sheet too. >> You never know what questions you'll get. >> Thank you again. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. I don't get stumped often. So, you know,
>> those questions stumped me some. >> Is it game already? Good night. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> High school kids. >> Yeah. I mean, >> yeah, it's two and a half year old. So, I'm
thinking like >> just wait >> that helped you out on that one. >> Yeah. >> Tonight. >> I know. >> Yeah. If I if my son lives in the bed, I go home and say, "Oh, T." >> Yeah, I know where you're hanging out. Yeah.
I'll be the me up too. We'll have to take the late night. Just as water. >> Yes. I mean, wake me up. Keep me w wake up.
>> You know the problem is if I stay up beyond my bedtime, then I can't get to sleep. >> You're a parallel. >> Okay, everybody ready to go? >> Ready to go. >> Yes, Mr. Chairman. >> Okay. All right. We have our last petition tonight. That's petition 5225.
Boston Gas Company doing business as National Grid. The property is located at 127 Whites Path in South Yarmouth. It's in the B3 and APD zoning district. Excuse me. The applicant seeks a special
permit per 104.3.2 2 subsection 3 and/or section 202.5 use F8 and/or section 406 to raise and replace a non-conforming structure an existing LNG storage tank with a new
full containment LNG storage tank and/or a variance from section 203.4.2 for a proposed tank height 100 ft above grade. Good evening. Could you identify yourselves for the record, please? >> Good evening, Mr. Chairman, members of
the board. My name is Mark Riley, uh, assistant general counsel at National Grid. Um, go ahead. Brendan Maloney. I'll be the project manager on the project National Grid. >> Matt O'Brien. I'm the project engagement public affairs specialist for the project. >> Good evening.
>> Um, could you proceed? >> Yes, thank you. Um, so as you mentioned, Boston Gas, um, is proposing to replace its existing LNG tank. Um, and we have some, uh, visuals for you, um, with a
new full containment tank. Um, this tank is is used to to provide what we call peak peak service. The during the coldest day of the winter, uh, it's available to to provide reliable heating. Um so it's a it's a critical
piece of infrastructure. The need for the project is pretty straightforward. Um we regularly do asset condition assessments and recently those came back with a recommendation from the consultants as well as the manufacturer
that we should begin the process of replacing the tank. So, um, we have already been before the, um, we initiated site plan review, uh, responded to those comments. Uh, just today I got a an email saying that staff was recommending an approval there. We
just needed to pay them to pay a fee. Um, we have a storm water permit from the concom. We made a presentation to the select board. Um, just introducing them to the project and seeing if they had any issues. Um, that's
the only other permitting needed for this project. There's no other environmental permits required. Um so it's our last stop. Um the the approvals as as was mentioned uh
don't need to go through them again. The the special permit piece is a maybe worth a little discussion because there's sort of three varieties here. Um there's the replacement of a non-conforming structure and and when this was built, the original tank was
built in 1973. Um prior to to construction, the the predecessor company received applied for and received from the Department of Public Utilities zoning exemptions. Um, so when it was built, it didn't receive
any local approvals, um, which one could conrue as now being non-conforming. So since we're raising and and replacing that, um, under 10432, that would require a special permit. So that's sort of one variety of special
permit. Also, um, Commissioner Grills in his letter determination last May referenced just the zoning table. um F8, use F8, which is public utilities, um which require a special permit um in
this district. Uh company doesn't believe that that's a really a good fit here because we're not establishing a new use. We're just replacing a component of the plant basically. Um so, uh the last the last one is the uh
aquifer protection district. So, if you're not in the list of uses, which we're not, then you you get whatever permits you need, uh, you would otherwise normally need. And in this instance, like I just mentioned, the
table of uses, um, public utility F8, uh, requires a special permit. Um, I'd also note that the that bylaw was enacted after the construction of the tank. So, one could argue that that's another reason why it's a
non-conforming structure. Um, and so that also just kicks us back into that type of special permit. Anyway, it's a special permit. Um, the height variance as well. So, we have
um we phrased it, we phrased it as approximately 100 feet, and I just want to explain that real quick. Um, We're currently uh receiving bids for what we call EPC contract, engineering,
procurement, construction. Um so the design is not finalized yet. They'll they'll finish that job, but uh we have a high degree of confidence that the you know a a 100 foot height um is is what
we need. um probably won't exceed that, but until we have the final design, we need to hand it over to that contractor sort of permitted and and risk-f free, so to speak. Um so that's why we need to
file this application. Now, um the other point on the height is that we there will be some impertinances above the tank. There's a there's a staircase which will have a platform at the top by the dome, lightning rod, things like
that. And we we did not include those in the calculation to be consistent with how your your bylaw treats those types of things on other buildings. Um you have a those you know things like chimneys and spires and towers are not
included in a height calculation. So um so we have a an extensive um statement in support and I don't want to repeat that but I do want to touch on you know summarize some highlights that I think are important to mention with
respect to the special permit. Um again we're not we're not establishing a new use. We're replacing an existing tank. the facility and the tank have been kind of part of this neighborhood for over 50 years. Um,
we're not going to uh increase demand for municipal services. It will not create any emissions, light impacts, noise impacts, anything like that during operation. Um, it's it's essentially it's a taller
tank, but it's essentially just moving it to a different location on the property. Um so we don't anticipate uh any substantial increase or nuisance or anything like that in the neighborhood or or beyond quite frankly. Um you know it
seems pretty clear that strict enforcement of of the bylaw um or the the denial of is a major hardship not only for the company but for the customers. that serves
130,000 customers on Cape Cod. Um and given the asset condition and the need to replace it, we really don't have any other choice. Um similarly with the height variance, um we
uh the the height we landed on is is a component of a couple of different factors that sort of play together. One is that um and maybe you can show that while we're there they're together. We have to keep the existing tank in service
because this will be a multi-year construction project over a couple heating seasons. We have to keep that in service while we build the replacement tank. So this shows both of them at the same time. This condition will only last a short period of time. I'm not exactly
sure. Maybe a matter of months. Um so the need to to leave the existing tank in service means we have to put this site this in a different location on the property. Um
in addition when we have to comply with other sighting criteria federal federal and state regulations that um require us to keep we do we do modeling for thermal and vapor dispersion if there were to be a leak
that basically creates a radius and that that radius has to be within the property bounds. And so we looked at a lower design but wider footprint but that ring was outside of the property so we had to
basically squeeze it in and in order to keep the same capacity you bring it in has to get taller. So right now um that ring is just within the property bounds. So, we're kind of at the, you know, the
lowest height we could go for the capacity that we need to serve customers. Um, so I think, um, maybe we can just flip through real quick. >> Amazing.
>> We'll show you, you can just sort of start from the show the existing condition and then Yeah. So, that's the existing tank >> and it's you'll see it's it's set in a burm and that's the part of the containment currently.
>> What's the height of that thing? >> 42 feet, but it's um 10 feet below grade. It's in an earthn BM. That's how they were built back in the day. Um, in case of a leak, it's contained by that raised earthn berm there. The new tank design is full containment. Essentially,
a tank within a tank, so it can be constructed at grade, not below grade. >> Say that again, please. >> But the old tank is 10 ft below grade. >> Yeah. >> Sight elevation in an earthn burn. >> Right. >> The new tank is a full containment design. Essentially, a tank within >> Oh, double containment.
>> Double containment. Correct. Yes. >> So, it it will be constructed at grade height. So, was that done at the time to abide by height regulations at the time and now? >> No, that was for in the event of a leak.
It's a containment um mechanism. It's sort of a safety issue. But right now, you're uh you're actually at around 35 ft above grade, right? >> 42.
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. But 10 ft below. going down 10 ft in the ground. >> I think that's including right? Yeah. So, sorry. 52 overall, 42 currently. Yeah. >> All right. >> And the So, this is a I don't think I I
mentioned it, but this is a existing tank is approximately 21 sorry 2.1 million uh gallons of storage and the new tank will will reduce that by approximately 20%. So, it'll be 1.7. So it'll be it'll be a significantly lower
capacity. Um we've studied that and and determined that that's sufficient to meet the need. Um but it will be narrower and taller uh to comply with you know current regulations that didn't
apply back then. Yeah. So you can see how it's shifted. There will be some tree clearing. Um and you can see some of the at the top there is it is domed. Now we did um I
think another important piece on the height is that we we did do a visual impact assessment. I think actually we have David Clinch from Epsilon um is on the line if we need him to sort of um if
you have any questions for him, but he oversaw the visual assessment. It was in your packets. It's kind of the purple. So, we did that at 90 ft. Um, and then we we just recently submitted today one at 101
um to to more closely match what we now know would be the approximate height. I think we did the 90 a while back when that seemed like where it was going to land. But um to be safe uh since the design's not
complete, we we redid it at 101. Um you really can't see any any market difference. It opens up maybe some visibility along Route Six to the east, but other than that, it's the visibility is really limited to the property itself
and maybe just around it. Um, so even though we'll be considerably taller, it really won't translate into visual impacts um the way you think it might. It's it's just not what you've seen from the town. there's
enough vegetative screening essentially the viewshed map the purple and light purple uh the darker tone of purple is indicates where the tank would be visible um with vegetation. The whole lighter purple shade is
theoretically without vegetation where it would be visible. But the darker shade of purple is with vegetation and across the you know multiple USED assessments with the the difference in height really doesn't change overall visibility. And then those photos are
the visual simulations where the yellow shape of the tank is superimposed on the trees um showing where you know the tank will sit. The property itself is slightly below grade from White's path like the topography of it of it overall. When you drive into the site when you
come to the second gate you're actually driving down a hill. The whole property is lower than the surrounding area essentially. So that also aids to the the viewshed analysis. for sure. Yeah. Yeah. essentially be phase one here. It's the
existing tank initial mobilization. Um the fence line, security fence line will um expand approximately 5 acres of tree clearing in this effort. So initially start out with all the civil work. Um
>> so that's the brown area of the picture. >> That's the that's the um area of tree clearing in in the initial phase. um property line expands out security line and there'll also be uh the vapor fence. So, you know, two layers of fence. It's just standard chain link fence with with
slats in it. And then again, two tank operation, short duration while the new asset is commissioned and the old tank will be decommissioned. Um and then transition towards the uh new tank and service standalone
integrated into the existing facility. >> You're not going to have any uh murals like the one on the Southeast Expressway. >> What would you like? Not another hochi men. >> Will it be white? >> Why is the need to be white?
>> Um, >> is there anything else you'd like to add at this time, gentlemen? >> I'm sorry. >> Is there anything else you'd like to add at this time? >> No, we'll take questions. It's fine. We'll take questions. >> Okay. Dick, do you have any questions for the petitioner? >> So, you're clearing out five acres of
trees, you said. >> Correct. That's going to be toward the Beacon Street residential area. Correct. Mostly. >> Uh so north is uh the top of the map. So north, east, and and then the south side. The west
side, no tree clearing, >> right? So you're going you're going the of the existing structure. You're it's the new structure is going to be pretty much to the southeast. Am I correct? >> Northeast. >> Northeast. Okay. Northeast of the existing structure is the new tank.
>> Um, I know it's necessary. I agree with it's having to be done. I'm still sitting over here pondering 100 ft. Uh, and I can't to be honest with you, I don't believe these visualizations. I think 100 feet is
going to be showing up more than than what I'm seeing on these visualizations. Uh I just uh can't see it not showing up. Uh you know, you're looking at 25 foot tall trees. How can it not show up?
But that's a comment, not a question. Go. Oh, I'm done. >> Tim, do you have any questions for the petitioner? >> Yeah. Uh just returning. Uh does they have to be white? >> Preferably white due to temperature
>> uh to refract any sunlight temperature. >> Um how is the gas delivered to the tank >> via trucks currently? That's how um all of our facilities operate. um cryogenic trucks deliveries through the course of
the summertime to >> fill the tank to prep to prepare for the winter heating season. >> And then it's dispersed through the gas lines to the customers. >> Correct. It's vaporized on site, transition from the liquid form to gas form and then goes out into the pipeline from the facility
>> and uh so because now this is a double containment tank. So is that eliminate the need for out of berm? Correct. >> If there is a leak, what is the evaporation? You know, how's it long
take the the LNG to transfer into a liquid state? >> It flashes to a gas atus 240 degrees Fahrenheit. I can't speak on behalf of the rate. It depends on the size of the leak. That's why we have vapor dispersion modeling that's been done. >> Worst case scenario essentially, and the
site will meet the standards federally to deal with an incident such as that. >> All right. So I mean once it gets to an ambient temperature it's going to go into a gaseous form. >> Correct. >> And um so the regulations that you're working
on in terms of the tank design is that from the US Department of Energy or the Massachusetts Department of Energy >> complying with both state DPU and federal FMZA regs.
and code of federal code of federal regulations. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Um just going back to the visualizations. Uh you were mentioning these maps here, the the different uh
the the purple areas are the where the tank would be visible. >> Top of the tank is theoretically visible from the darker purple. So um on Route Six to the east over by the Bass River crossing, >> yeah, >> you can see that darker shade there. Um
and then immediately around there's pockets of visibility around the property. >> Used The light purple is as if there was no ground. >> Okay. No vegetation. >> All right. So if I look at this the the
DACA purple within this one mile radius you have the like in the immediate vicinity of the tank and a couple of swatches by Route Six. Correct. Um, >> so basically the this tank is going to
be double the size of the existing one, right? >> Narrower and taller, >> right? >> Yeah. >> Would it be half as narrow in the base in terms of the cylinder? I mean that the volume of the two cylinders
going to be somewhat the volume of the new tank is going to be somewhat less. So the diameter of the uh the existing tank is that twice as wide as the volume of the as the base of the uh diameter of
the new tank. >> Uh the diameter is 101 I think of the existing and the diameter of the new is 86. So it's not an exact equation >> and it's just a a function. Oh, so
diameter of the existing is 106 >> and the new tank proposed is a diameter of 86. >> Okay. >> So it's not a clean, you know. >> All right. >> 50/50. >> And so this tank is now going to be put out for bid. Uh but we don't know
exactly what the the dimensions are going to be. Um we know the the location due to our vapor dispersion models and the location um also dictates >> the size of the tank.
>> Yeah. >> So the vendors basically have to adhere to our proposed specifications in our in our um front end engineering design which we have now >> in our bid package that uh the biders are currently you know >> and that's a custom engineering project.
>> Yeah. There's only a select uh number of vendors on you know in the country let alone the world that are capable of performing this work. >> So we have to engage them early. >> Yeah. >> Have a clear you know essentially a clear you know regulatory runway for them to mobilize. Yeah.
>> Their time is valuable. There's competing projects on the Gulf Coast constructing facilities such as this. >> So we have to make sure that they mobilize with minimal risk like um Mr. Riley said. Um, so that's kind of why we're here with, you know, with this
application. >> All right. And how long do you see it from start to finish? >> Um, right now proposed mobilization is, um, spring of 2027 and construction complete is 2031.
Our internal process has us, you know, project closeout is in 2032 calendar year. But on site, it's about a, you know, two-year execution. >> Okay. I have no further questions. Thank you. >> Okay. John, do you have any questions
for the petitioner? >> No questions. Thank you. >> Barbara, do you have any questions for the petitioner? >> Nope. >> Rich, do you have any questions for the petitioner? >> Nothing at this time. Thank you. >> I don't really have any questions
either. I did read through the materials extensively. I see what you want to do. You want to essentially take a a tank that's now obsolete or past its prime and replace it with a new state-of-the-art tank. It's seems to me to be much safer than the one that's
there now. Um, in terms of the visual impact, I would tend to agree that I think it's going to be minimal because I think the sight line that you're going to have to look at it, um, I'm not sure where you're going to see it. You might be able to see it from station looking up
the bike path. Um, but other than that, I think if you're looking at it from White's path, what is that thing going to be about 300 ft off the roadway or something? setback at least.
>> I'm not sure of that dimension, but it is quite a bit and it's behind >> I I I think when you look at something that's tall and it's set back, it's it's more on a scale it's acceptable. I mean, if it was right on the road, I'd
certainly agree that 100 ft. Um, like you know, obviously we had issues with the cell tower that was approved on Route 28, but that was right on the roadway. Um, but I don't really have any questions. Again, I've read through your
materials. Um, it looks like a necessary it looks like a necessary project for not only the town of Yarmouth, but for Cape Cod, I think it's critical. And uh if what you're saying you got to get in line to get these things built, I think the sooner the better.
Um it looks like every all of the safeguards that you need in place as far as safety systems, alarms, sensors, suppression systems, storm water, containment, all of that has been
addressed. Um I don't know if the board has any questions relative to those. Um, but other than that, uh, I do not have any further questions. Um, is there anyone in the audience that wishes to
speak in favor of this petition? >> There's no one, Mr. Chairman. >> Anyone in the audience that wishes to speak in opposition to this petition? >> There is no one, Mr. Chairman. >> Do we have anyone raising their hands? >> No, sir. >> Okay. Uh, does the board have any
further questions? No. >> Okay. Does the petitioner wish wish to insert anything into the discussion before we close the hearing? >> No, we're all set. Thank you. >> Okay. So, we're going to close the
hearing to the public, begin it for board deliberation. Uh, anybody want to begin to make a to have a discussion or is anyone prepared to make a motion? Uh actually I have one other question first. Has any consideration been given
to lowering the height? >> Even if the even if the tank's a little bit bigger overall or as big >> wise. >> In other words, could the heat could the height get down to 75 ft for instance uh uh if it's a little bit larger on the
footprint? >> Short answer is no. We did look at we did you know we did try to minimize the height and again it it it really is driven by the dispersion models. We have to keep that that radius
ring within the property bounds. So we're um if you see it it's >> almost right at the right at the edge. So, um, widening the base pushes those rings out and extends beyond
kind of at the necessary height, the lowest necessary height. >> Okay. >> Well done. I'll make a motion. >> Okay. I'll make a motion to approve the petition as requested
>> with no conditions. >> No conditions. >> I would unless you have any >> I would suggest the condition, John, that it not be more than 100 ft in height >> if that's all right. Is that consistent with your >> Yep.
>> Can the petitioner live with that condition? >> Absolutely. Oh, >> okay. I just wanted to make sure if they come in and it's 101 or 102. I I >> I just detected a little bit of
variation in that height. Okay. Okay. All right. So, we could have that condition in there. Um I have a question for the petitioners council. Do you think we can do this all in a special perimeter? You think you need a
variance for the height of that uh tank? My opinion is I think you need a variance for the height cuz it's above the 35 ft. I think we're willing to give it to you, but I I would suggest that you allow the special permit for the use and a
variance for the height of the tank. >> That's that's acceptable. Um >> okay >> then what we're going to do is we're going to take this in two parts. We will do the special permit first on the use
okay under F8 and uh the sections of the bylaw that they're looking for special permit relief. We'll take that all in one. So John, your motion is to grant the special permit as requested with no
conditions. Tim, we'll take up your condition uh with the variance. Okay. On the height. Is that all right with you? >> Sounds good. >> Okay. So, if we're if we're going to do that, then there's a motion made to approve the special permit for the use
and those areas of the bylaw that require special permit for that relief. That's the motion on the floor with no conditions. Do I have a second to that motion? >> Second it. Got a second.
Um, okay. I need to Who's the uh We We only have one voting member tonight on this. Okay. Rich, are you sitting as an alternate or you sitting as a voting member? >> Um, I'm sitting as an alternate currently. >> Okay, then someone else is gonna You
can't You can't make that second right now. Okay. >> All right. I'll second it. >> Tim, you're gonna second it. >> Yes. Okay. All right. Um, we can only have five on the vote. Uh, okay. So, we got a motion made by
John, seconded by Tim to approve the special permit as requested. I would say that in terms of whether the petitioner has met the criteria under the bylaw, clearly I think it is a uh imperative
uh public need. I I think any first of all I don't think there's any nuisance congestion or hazard. I think the safeguards are put in place. Um, I think the uh I think that the
necessity outweighs any negative impact that it might have and although I haven't really seen a negative impact because it's in a B3 zoning district and uh it's certainly within a proper distance away from any
houses. So meeting the criteria. Anyone else wish to speak to the criteria? Hearing none, we're going to take a roll call. Dick, how do you vote? >> I. >> Tim, >> I. >> John,
>> I. >> Barbara, >> I. >> How do you vote, Rich? >> I >> Okay, I'm an I, too. That passes. Five in favor, none against. Uh, now we're going to go to the variance criteria. They have a variance for to exceed the
35 ft height on the tank. Uh we have a motion to approve that. >> Motion to approve with a condition that not exceed 100 ft in height. >> We have a motion made by Tim. Do we have a second? >> Second.
>> Second. Seconded by John. Any discussion on it? I clearly think that the petitioner meets the criteria for a variance. I think to not grant it would be not only a a hardship to the petitioner, I think it would be a hardship to the people of
Cape Cod. I don't think it deriggates from the purpose and intent of the bylaw. Uh because I think the intent of the bylaw is to provide a service like that. It's an essential public utility that we all need and without it we'd be in big
trouble. Um and so I I think one could say that it's I mean owing to the land I don't know if it's the land I would say the structure uh but it's an essential structure that we need and today's technology requires
that it be taller thinner double uh double ringed inside um and so it meets all the modern requirements and so for those reasons I think it meets the criter criteria of a variance. Any further discussion on the variance
hearing? None. Rich, how do you vote? >> I. >> Barbara, >> I. >> John, >> I. >> Tim, >> hi. >> Dick. >> Hi. >> And I'm an I as well. That passes unanimously. As you know, council, 20
days must elapse after the uh its clock with the town clerk. After that, uh, your special permit and/or variance, uh, will be issued. We ask that you take it over to the, uh, uh, registry of deeds and record both of them and bring a copy
back for our records. Do you have any questions? >> No, sir. Thank you. Thank you. >> All right. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, >> Barbara. Do we have minutes to approve? >> Uh, Mr. Chairman,
>> Barbara, I'm sorry, but excuse me. Barbara, are you in charge of minutes now? >> No. >> You'd be in trouble if I was. >> Dolores, do we have minutes to approve? >> I knew who you meant, Mr. Chairman. Yes, we do, sir. It's u Mr. Manon, Mr. Scanland, Miss Murphy, and yourself were
here for that meeting. >> Okay. What What's the date of those? I'm sorry. >> Uh March 26, 2026. >> Okay. Do we have a motion to approve those minutes? I'll >> move. Second. >> Have a second. Second.
>> All those in favor, please say I. I. >> Any opposed? Hearing none. Those minutes are approved. Um, do we have a motion to adjurnn? >> Motion to adjurnn. >> We have a second. >> No second. Everybody wants to stay.
Okay. >> Second. Barb. >> Barbara's going to second that one. All in favor? I. >> I. >> Okay. Thank you.