Recording in progress. Right. As posted in the agenda, it is anticipated we will go into executive session pursuant to chapter 3A section 21 A3 to discuss litigation relating to petition 50005
1044 Route 28 South Yarmouth Mass. This board will return to open session upon conclusion of the executive session. The board can move to enter executive session if it is determined by the chair that meeting in open session could have a detrimental effect on the position of
this board. The chair so declares that it would have a detrimental effect if the session were conducted in public. Do I have a motion to go into executive session as recited? So moved. Second. Okay. I was going to ask for a second. We're going to take a roll call. Barbara
here. John here. Anthony here. Dick here. And I'm here as well. So, we have five present. We're in executive session. Recording stopped. I think you were uh I I really
appreciated the heads up. Recording in progress. I'm not on that group, so I'm Oh, perfect. It'll be built to hear it. I didn't realize Steuart painting was this popular.
We're ready when you are, Mr. Chairman. Are we on? Oh, we are. Good evening everyone. Welcome to the regularly scheduled meeting of the Yama Zoning Board of Appeals. Today's date is September 25th, 2025. We have two matters on our agenda tonight. We're going to begin by doing a roll call.
Barbara here. John here. Dick here. Anthony here. And I'm present. The quorum being present. We're going to begin with the first petition. Petition 5192. Steuart Painting property location at 539 and
545 Hickens Crawl Road properties in a B3 zoning district APD and zone 2. The applicant seeks a special permit per 202.5 for D1 use in section 406 to relocate a painting,
power washing, and carpentry business and to store up to 800 gallons of hazardous materials. The applicant seeks a waiver, requests a waiver from the requirement of a certified plot plan less than two years old. Good evening, gentlemen. Good evening.
Could you identify yourselves for the record, please? Patrick Nickerson, attorney for the applicant to my right, Kelvin Stewart with Steuart Painting. Good evening. Could you please tell us a little bit about what you want to do here tonight? Uh, thank you and good evening, Mr. Chairman, members of the board of
appeals. Um, as you stated in reading the notice, the applicant seeking to establish a base of operations for its family-owned painting, power washing, and carpentry business, which has been around for over 40 years now. The
business was formally located in Hyannis in a multiple unit building, but unfortunately uh a fire uh not caused by the applicant was was uh displaced him and his business to 68 Merkantile Way in Mashby.
Um, so the applicants now seeking to occupy the former Ford Diamond Electric Company building uh where it will engage mostly in office use and storage of non-hazardous materials, equipment, and company vehicles. The applicant's been
working very closely with Carl Lawson and has received the approval of the board of health or the recommendation from the board of health rather regarding the proposed storage of 800 gallons of hazardous materials indoors and subject to a number of strict requirements from the board of health
ensuring safety of the groundwater with a number of uh conditions including 150% secondary containment um throughout the building and certain separation of of materials that don't necessarily shouldn't be stored together. Examples
would be paint, um solvents, bleach, uh waste water, uh from cleaning of equipment either on the premises or at a customer's residence. Naturally, uh the majority of the business occurs offsite,
residential houses, commercial businesses where the power washing, painting, and carpentry will occur. Then uh company vehicles, equipment, employees will return to the site to store materials and otherwise engage in
office use. We did submit a memo dated um excuse me get that here somewhere. Yeah. Well, it was last Thursday. I've read it. I I can attest we have it.
uh we provided a exhibit showing the relative properties in relation to each other along with the deeds which ex uh describe certain meets and bounds descriptions of the parcels uh at issue. With that, I think that concludes my
presentation. I'm happy to answer any questions that you may have. Okay. All right. You have any questions for the petitioner? Uh this is both the squarer part par part parcel and the triangular parcel as well. Yes.
Yes. Correct. Um it's within the same use category I think is is what's you might have upgraded that category a little bit but it is in the same general category. Yeah. Um,
so, uh, seems like all the correspondence is favorable. Uh, I think as long as you guys do what the board of health requires you to do, uh, I'd be happy.
Okay. Anthony, questions. Um, but I only had one really, and it was more about the memo that you provided. You you had said that you would occasionally have some all staff
training uh on it. All all hand safety meetings will be conducted occasionally. Right now, do you have kind of a time frame that it happens? Any kind of usually it usually happens the second Wednesday of every month. Okay. Yeah. Um
and uh we also do uh we've also separated that out in our Hangingham office. They meet separately. Yeah. So, same day, we just do it at a zoom from one location. Okay. And just like Dick said, in these types of matters, we a lot of times look
towards the board of health to make sure that they're in favor and approp it appropriate. And you know, I drove by as we all have a number of times to that location, passed it, and we know your business. Uh, so if the board of health is happy and they keep a tight eye on
things, uh, from what you're asking, I understand what you're asking for. Okay, John, do you have questions for the petition? I don't. I had an Anthony asked my question on training. So, okay. And the 16 employees would would have
report. Well, we have many more employees, but that's the amount of that would report to this on a regular basis. We have people that report to Hangingham, report to Nantucket. Uh, and so it's this is probably the the amount that would normally come to the hyenas
location. They'd all be trained in the event of a a spill. They know what to do. All of our employees are Yeah, we have them in trucks and and compliant with the building as well. Very good. Okay. Thank you,
Barbara. No, I don't have any questions. Okay. Um, I just want to refer to the board of health memo. Do you have a copy of it? Yes, we do. Could we turn to page, let me see where I'm at.
Page five, health department requirements. read these. Yes. Okay. I just want to go over them. Okay. Business must register annually for a Yarmouth Board of Health handling and storage of toxic hazardous materials
license. Yes. Understand that? Yes. No materials may be discharged to the environment. Yes. No outdoor storage of materials is allowed. Correct. All materials must be protected from vandalism.
Yes. All materials must be stored inside secondary containment of 150% volume of the total amount of materials stored. Yes. Containers of materials must be stored in such a manner to facilitate visual inspection of each container.
Yes. Any waste material must be properly disposed of by a licensed hazardous waste hauler. Yes. Absorbent material must be kept on site for use in the event of spills. Yep. Safety data sheets for each toxic or
hazardous material must be maintained on site and be readily available. Yes. Okay. Um let me just see here conditions and recommendations.
Uh just below that we have some uh board of health hearing and license condition recommendations. You've looked at those the four of them. I have. Maximum allowed total combined storage of toxic and hazardous materials is 800 gallons. Correct.
The detailed material spill containment plan must be conspicuously posted at all times. Yes. All employees must be familiar with the plan. Yes. Are they familiar with the plan now? Yes, they are. Yeah. But we had a similar plan that was uh in Hyannas.
I see. Okay. Uh a sufficient supply of inert absorbent absorbent must be maintained on site for use in the event of a spill. Yes. What are those kept in barrels or something? Uh they're in bags or spill containment
uh bags. We keep them in the trucks. We keep them uh near the the uh the 55gallon drums of paint. Um if any paint would have spill, they they they were able to put a containment around the spill and then use an absorbent to take it out.
Okay. Okay. No vehicle washing or repair is allowed on site other than the vehicle oil changes provided by their service vendor. Yes. Okay. With those conditions, you're willing to abide by those recommendations and conditions?
Yes, I am. Okay. I think the only thing that I asked you to do, I did have a conversation with Mr. Stewart earlier about uh just giving us a parking plan for the front where the employees are. Yes. Okay.
And then any equipment or if you got to store a truck or something like that, you'd put those out back in the storage area. Yes, you I can show you these. Take those kind of last minute.
That's okay. We just need them for the file. Okay. All right. You you parked right here. Okay. So, these would be for trucks. Yeah. And all that would be look similar to like that. That would be existing.
Okay. That would be all the construction. Okay. Okay. We'll take these for the file and that's the existing parking. Okay. And that just shows how many spaces he's going to have out front.
This just shows how many spaces he would have if he wanted to park some of his trucks in the back. Anybody have any questions? You're going to maintain the uh existing shrubbery on the triangle lot, right? Yes. Yes. Per the 04 decision, I believe it was.
Right. Okay. We'll keep these for our uh Okay. Very good. All right. Anyone have anything else you wish to add? No. No. Thank you. Okay. Is there anyone in the audience
that wishes to speak in favor of this petition? If so, please come to the microphone. See none. Do we have anybody online? No one's raised their hand. Okay. If anybody would like to speak in opposition to this petition, please come
to the microphone. Seeing none. All right. All right, we're going to close it to public discussion, open it up for board members to consider. Uh, does anybody have any any further discussion or is anyone
prepared to make a motion? There was some uh some some things that came through in favor. I don't know if you want to mention that, but Oh, okay. We had a couple of Yeah. There's no retail sales of any kind,
right? No paint. Um, no. I think the You might have somebody in though to discuss a job or something like that. Correct. Yes. Right. You're not a real retailer, correct? You're not. Okay.
All right. Let me see here. Okay, here is an email from Chip Haron of uh Kitchen Creations. I guess he's your neighbor, correct? Yes. Good afternoon. I'm writing on behalf of the application for a variance for Sheldon Stewart for a property on
Higgins Croll Road. I'm a director Butter and I'm completely in favor of them moving into the neighborhood. They're a long-standing Cape Cod company with a stellar reputation. I have spoken to many of the existing neighbors
and they too feel they will be a welcome addition to our small business community. Please grant their application. Please share this with the zoning board at the upcoming hearing. Thank you. Chip Herren, president Kitchen Creations.
Anything else? Is that the one? I have one here from There's two others. That's you requesting a special permit. Um, two others. They in favor. They're in favor.
Okay. We have two others in favor. We're going to put them on the record. Is in favor. All right. Aside Electrical and Fuller Electrical Company neighbors saying they're in favor. Okay. Very good. We'll put that on the
record. Um, anyone wish to begin a discussion or make a motion? Let's see. Uh, I'll move to uh, uh, approve petition 5192. 5192 for Steuart Baining. uh as
requested uh subject to the uh board of health recommendations and requirements being met. Okay. So, as part of your motion, we
would incorporate the memorandum of Carl Lawson Jr. dated September 15, 2025. You got it. Updated September 17, 2025 into the decision. Yes. Okay, we have a motion. Do we have a second to
the motion? I'll second that. Anyone wish to have any discussion on the motion? The only thing I would add is that they business there that is presently there has been there for a long time. They've
done a good job. I suspect you'll do the same. I don't think that uh by granting you this special permit there'll be any undue, hazard, nuisance, or congestion. uh nor will it be any detrimental effect to the surrounding neighborhood or the zoning district. So I do think you meet
the criteria for special permit. Thank you. Any further discussion? Okay, we're going to do a roll call vote. Barbara, I John. Hi, Anthony. Hi. Dick. I and I'm an I. That's five in favor, zero
against. Council, uh as you know, there's a 20-day appeal period. must collapse after we clock the decision with the town clerk. After that, Dolores will contact you for special permit. Thank you very much. Any questions? Very much. All right. Good luck.
Appreciate it. Thank you. Good luck. Okay. Now, let me get settled here for a second. The next petition is petition 5193 NSG Madacheset Village LLC
and Nantucket Sound Group. Uh the property owner property location at 897 Route 28 South Yarmouth. It's in a B1, B2, HMOD1 in VOD3 zoning district. The applicant seeks a comprehensive
permit under Mass General Law Chapter 40B section 20 through 23. The project requires waiverss from section 202.5 A12 multif family use 203 density number of buildings per lot and building separation.
Section 203 building height. Section 203.5 building setbacks imperous coverage. Section 303.4.4 parking buffer. Section 301.4.6 inlot trees and 301.5
parking spaces to construct three buildings for a total of 27 rental units of which 25% of the units will be restricted for low and moderate income households. Do we have the petitioners?
How you doing? We got one. What happened to the group? Are you I'm the one that takes the bullets. Oh, really? What' they do? Run out the door? No. Coffee. Coffee. Wow. Okay. What if we have a question
for them, Nate? Okay. Um All right. So, we have a packet here. Um, what I would like to discuss before we get started is your project eligibility letter of October 23rd, 2023. Do you have a copy of that in
front of you? I do. Okay. Does everybody have a copy of that? Everybody pull that out. Okay. Um, and this was 2023. Do you have any updated letters from Mass Housing? No.
Okay. Um I'm not going to read the whole thing, but the pertinent parts that I want to address is Nan Sucket Sound Group submitted an application with mass housing pursuant to chapter 40B. You have proposed to build 23 units of
rental housing on approximately 1.09 acres of land located at 897 Route 28, the site in Yarmouth, the municipality. Mass Housing has performed an on-site inspection of the site which local
boards and officials were invited to attend and has reviewed the pertinent information for the project submitted by the applicant municipality and others in accordance with the comprehensive permit rules. After an initial review of the site, the
proposed plans, and several meetings with town officials, a clear consensus and prevail prevailing sentiment was reached to reposition the commercial aspect of the project to the front portion of the site and Route 28. Simultaneously, the consensus was to
establish the proposed apartments to the rear of the site where the former Cape Cod Laundry building sat, requiring that building to be demolished. Um so that is what you've proposed. Um on
page three it says uh 1 2 3 4 5 6 seven paragraphs down. This site approval is expressly limited to the development of no more than 23
rental units under the terms of the program of which not less than six of such units shall be restricted as affordable low or moderate income persons or families as required under the terms of the guidelines. Um I guess my question to
you is that's not what you're proposing tonight. Correct. There's been potentially there have been multiple iterations of this development over the last three years. We have had multiple meetings with town leaders, town
department heads. And it it initially was going to be us saving the laundry center, creating a retail use there, and then building a building along Route 28, which was 104 by 62. that got poo pooed because people wanted
to see more commercial on 28 and more residential in the back. We thought we'd try to take advantage of the foundations of the laundry center and put the residential building there, but then all the parking was on Pinerove.
Now, we had a ton of conversations about trees and we turned and we put the 102x 64 ft building along Pine Grove and we put the commercial on the front to do the mixeduse project even though it's a
housing development. Mhm. And that building on the front was taking out all these beloved trees. And so we got many requests to save the trees along Route 28. So then we had other conversations in house, well do we
really want to have this 102 foot wall on Pine Grove and we're hearing from Mary wagon that she'd rather see a village and should rather see walkability and we keep hearing that and we say well why don't we take this big building convert it into three buildings
make it more of a village feel um open up walkability open up more landscape and what created there it becomes was a 52x 54 ft building. So we had three 54 52x 54t buildings. And what happens in
those buildings is we felt we had too many threebedrooms. We had six threebedrooms and we thought that was too much for the market, too much for the site. So what we did, and that's how I say we could go either way. The 102 by
by 64 is a 23 unit building. The 52 by 54 foot3 buildings could be a 23 unit building. These are preliminary plans. We're getting more feedback on Tuesday from affordable housing. We're getting more feedback from you tonight. It's
either we have six threebedrooms to make it 23 or two of those three bedrooms become a onebedroom and a U studio. And we felt that four studios rather than three bedrooms make more sense. And
that's in the exact same square footage. So there isn't really a change to the square footage. It's just a change to the unit count because we pulled the three bedrooms out. So we could go either way. whatever your direction is, we'll go straight with the 23. I've
talked to Mike Busby. Mike said, I said, "The department heads are asking about this 23 going to 27. What are your feelings?" And he said, "I I really don't want to make a call from the department heads. Ask the question of the board." So that's why we just left
it open. And and Mike would say, "It makes sense what you're doing for what the market is demanding." and it's a workforce housing project development and that the the onebedrooms and the studios are better than the three bedrooms, the the three extra three
bedrooms. So that's that's where that lies. And one thing that happens when we do that to 27, which is punishment for us, the affordables go from six to seven. So, we have to add an extra affordable unit, which is good for Mary,
and she's happy about that if we keep the the two three bedrooms as four one two one bedrooms and two studios. Okay. Um well,
how long has it been since you've known that you weren't going to do this project, the 23 units? See, it's the requirement is preliminary drawings for everything and in a preliminary we're just swapping ideas. We'd like to leave
the next meetings with ideas coming back from you of how you think it should work. You can come back and say we only want 18 units and we may try to make make it work or or we could say we're going to go back to the 102 by 104 because the 102 by uh 62 because that
works better for us. It's just preliminary. Everything I gave you guys is just preliminary and we try them to work together to make what works best. You can see if if if we went through, you know, I have a slideshow of all the changes that were made based on the
input from the town. And it's again it's it's either we have three bedrooms or we have ones in the studios on our preliminary drawings which are subject to change. Okay. But you've abandoned the commercial component. Is that fair to
say? We we still have land for commercial component, but that has nothing to do with the 40B. That's an accessory use to the Well, the reason I ask is you're also looking to and I need to know how are you proceeding here because there's are
you proceeding under B1 B2 or I don't think I don't know that HMOD1 is going to apply here, but we're run through the line and zone and it's Yeah, I know. I know that it's an
overlay district. Yeah. Um, what about VOD3? It's not part of the 40 40B. We might use some of the some of the uh allowance requirement. We might use that as one of our
arguments to ask you for a variance and you know 16 units are allowed in the overlay district, but we're not we're not asking for variances off of the HOMD or the VC. Well, the reason why I bring that up is
the representation made to mass housing. You said that you were going to have a commercial building in the front. That's consistent with the zoning bylaw which requires com a mixed use, right? So, that would be that would be a variance.
Well, we can wave that. We can give you a waiver for that. Yeah. But just so we're clear because um you are proposing to do what's a prohibited use in the B2 zoning district. Correct. Except
because you have no commercial component. Correct. All right. Um and Route 28 is our only commercial corridor. Understood. So, we tend to be very reluctant to We do have a lot of motel and hotels that have gotten old that we
right convert to housing, but that's under a different section of the bylaw. That's under section 404. Yeah. And we may have done 404 if we were actually a hotel. So, that's a big gap in that. Had you considered taking over one of those and converting it? Uh,
we have that in mind. Yes. Okay. Um well um I I'm I'm probably going to go to the board and get some input because I
well well let let me just be let me get some clarity here. Are you not going for a commercial component? Are you not proceeding under the VOCC 3 VO? We're we're we're pursuing this under chapter 40B comprehensive permanent
which the the the we were trying to recover what we would lose by knocking down that 3,800 ft office building. We were trying to conform with putting the commercial unit out front and the residential in the back. I wanted to do
I'm in the restaurant business. I wanted to do a restaurant out there with parking off site, but there was too much concern about the trees that would be affected and the whole use of a of a retail out there. And financially,
financially, you're getting $40 a square foot for housing and you might be getting $3 a foot for commercial. And it's just it's just this is a housing project. if we can find a expansion
um to do office along Route 28 or we find a spot to do a smaller uh commercial building in the future, we'd certainly explore that, but again, we'd have to find more off-site parking. I I'm just curious why you didn't go
back to mass housing and amend this because they look at that as an accessorary and they approve the accessorary. They they're just looking at 27 units of housing. Well, so could we say that they've expressly limited this to 23? So, we're
talking about a maximum of 23 before as a baseline. You could. Yeah. And we'd have no problem with that. Okay. So, we can eliminate four units. Sure. Okay. All right. Um I I'm just going to reserve on this right here because I I'm
not sure. I'm a little unclear. I want to get a some type of uh determination from town council whether you can proceed with this on what you're proposing or whether you need to go back to mass housing. Sure. But for purposes of tonight, since you're here and a few other people
showed up, uh I don't want to just send everybody away and go through this again later on. So, um what we're going to do is uh do you have anything else you want to add right now? That's a second now. Okay. And the plans that we're working
off of are these plans right here. Have you opened the meeting yet? Yes, you have. Okay. Yes. Okay. That's what I announced you. Yes. The meeting. No, fine. Oh, fine. As long as you open the meeting. No, no, no. The meeting is open. But yeah,
my concern here is is that we dismiss this for a deficient uh deficient application because you don't have the approval of mass housing. So, I don't know that you have a valid project eligibility letter. That's the point I'm trying to get. I know that's what
you represented something totally different and now you're coming here and telling us you're not going with one building and a restaurant or commercial use. You're going with three buildings and more units and you haven't informed mass housing
and you haven't Mass housing is very well aware. Mass housing. Do you have anything in writing from? very well aware. Yes. Yeah, you do. Okay. Well, could you give that to us just for our recent just so we're on the same page here? I'm not trying to give you a hard time,
but I just want to make sure. Okay. Did you get anything in return from them? Yes. Mike said that he would if you guys wanted a change, if you would approve the the 27 units, he would write an amendment to that PEL.
That's how they do it. Yeah. Nothing in writing. But he didn't want it from He did not want it from the department heads. He wanted it from the ZBA. Well, you went through all of this to get this
all of these going through department heads into the municipality weighed in. I don't have any I mean I do have some stuff here in writing that people have weighed in on this, but I'm Are you required to amend your application? No,
everything is preliminary plans and these are preliminary plans that we've Okay, so when this letter says you're expressly limited to the 23 units and that you're proposing a commercial use, a 20% fudge factor, if if I went to hack and I
said I went for 27 units, they'd say, "Well, that's only an 8% change. That's in insignificant." That would be Do we have that in writing anywhere or that's just your that's just your experience with that? That's experience. Yeah. Okay. All right. All right. Well,
John, if you just want to stick with 23 because I'm I'm going to hear from Mary that she wants the 27. And who's going to say she wants the 27? Wag. I don't know. I don't think Mary's here tonight. Umary.
Okay, folks. Calm down now, please. Okay. All right. Um, well, all right. I I just want to talk to the board for just a second. Does anybody share my concerns about
this project eligibility letter? Yeah, I do. And we also have not us. The applicant has a time constraint on it. If the the the approval is only for two years, it's a month away. Uh so he would need another
approval letter or an extension of it. Um this is dated October 2023, so it's only a month away. Uh well, I'm going to uh I I'm not planning on taking a vote from this tonight. And
one of the conditions that we're going to leave here with is I'm going to require that they get some type of letter from Mass Housing saying that they don't need to come back and do a full new application for this because this is not what they
requested and this is finally what we got in front of us and it seems that there's been weeks and months of discussion with this and you've been on notice of what you're going to do. I would have thought you could have gone to mass housing and said, "Hey, this is what we're going to do. What do we need to do to make sure we're in the right,
but you're telling me that Busby and Hack just say, "I don't worry about it. There's 20% either way." But there's nothing in writing and we're still not done with the design. We're we're we're still going through the process with different boards. So, this design may change.
We could. Okay. Well, we're we'd like to discuss that with you, too. All right. So, all right, folks. Um, so all right. Well, I I I think I'd like as
to reserve the rights of the board to challenge this project eligibility letter. Is everybody in agreement with that? Yes, I am. I agree with you. Okay. See where you're coming from. But we're going to we're going to table that to the side and we're going to have
a further discussion about this. All right. Um, I do have a number of things that are written up from me, but we're going to do some questions, I think, right now. Does anybody Do you have anything else that you'd like to add right now, Mr. Clair? No.
Okay. Um, everybody has the memorandum from the planning board because I'm going to go over that next. I'm not just going to read it into the record. I want to go over it line by or section by section because I think you have one too as
well, don't you? Okay. All right. All right. We have a memorandum from the planning board dated September 19th, 2025 regarding this project. They have nine uh sections that they
have addressed relative to this project. I'm going to start with number the first couple I just think I'll read. Um, community housing committee memo. The planning board would like to express their support for the comments made by the community housing committee and Mary
Wagan. Affordable housing CDBG program administrative within their September 15, 2025 memo to the ZBA. We have that in the file site plan review comment sheet. The the planning board would also like to offer their
support for the comments made by various town staff on the October 12th, 2025 site plan review comment sheet. Number three, eligibility letter. The October 23rd, 23, 2023 eligibility
letter expires October 23rd, 2025 and is only for 23 units whereas the comprehensive permit is seeking 27. The original application to mass housing was for a mixeduse development, whereas the comprehensive permit is for 100% residential. The local comprehensive
plan and zoning bylaw promote mixeduse developments to try to balance economic development and housing. A new eligibility letter should be required for this modified project. So, planning has weighed in on that as well. You've addressed that already.
We've had a discussion about that. Traffic report. A peer review of the traffic report should be required, especially regarding close proximity of the entrance to Pine Grove Road, Route 28 intersection. Do we have a traffic report? We do.
Okay. All right. I I saw that in there. That was generated by you. We We hired a company. Okay. Is it in January or July? July. It was in the summer. Folks, please come on. I know it's
busier in July than January. I I don't know when they did it. Actually, I just got this. June 24th. Did you want it for all of us? Debbie end.
Okay, hold on folks. Hold on. people leave at the end. Don't kill me. I'm only the messenger here. Okay. All right. Now, um All right. So, we we'll have that and we'll we'll take a look at that density.
The density of 24.8 units per acre is too high for this 1.0 acre site and would be the highest residential density project in the town of Yarmouth. Um, I looked at this and my calculations are
what you want to do. You can do 16 units per acre. Now, at 16 units per acre times 1.09, my math comes out to 17.6 units. Have you calculated the minimum number of units that you need to make this
financially feasible? Um, 23. Uh 27 works much better. 23. Okay. So your your representation to the board
is that if we say anything less than 23 units that that you can't make money on this zero unit. Hold on folks. Hold on. Come on. Come on. Um, we cannot make money with six three
bedrooms. If it goes up to 27, come on, folks. I need you to be quiet now. All right. Well, I I think I'm not going to speak for other board members, but the 27 units was of real concern to me when I reviewed this.
Um, you're really 17.6 is what you should be allowed. Now, you're looking for chapter 40b. That's underlying zone. And and they've said that that the 23 was within reason. Well, you know, if you
don't like if you don't like what we what we say, you you've got an appeals process. Okay. Well, we we'll talk about that later. Okay. Parking uh a parking rate of 1.1 space unit is simply not attainable for this type of
housing development, which includes 27 units with three three-bedroom units. Yanmoth is not an urban community with access to frequent and convenient public transportation and many households have more than one vehicle. The American
Community Survey ACS 2023 5-year data shows South Yamoth having 57.3 of total households with more than one car. Parking along Pine Grove, it says street, it's road, um or within grass
areas of buffers should be prohibited. Um, so you're proposing 1.1 spaces. Uh, how are you going to address that problem? Management. Management. In what way? She must have some history with what's
going on next door. But right now, we have this big circular section and we could create more parking if we took that out. The fire department right now doesn't want it there in the first place. So, in their thing, they
they asked that it be at least leveled or taken out and we can take that out and add probably another 10 parking spaces. So, I guess my question is how come we don't have that in front of us tonight?
because we don't want to we want to do with all the changes at once and we're going to get requests for changes and studies from your group. We're going to get request from changes from other people within this building.
And no, this is the last stop. This I I'm I'm not aware that this goes back and has changed anywhere else. It's only changed here. And that's a I mean you you presented something to us tonight that we are prepared to vote on
tonight based on what we have in front of us. That's the way I look at these. That's the way I've done them with 40Bs. There's been a few. We don't do a ton of them, but the ones that we have done generally if they're ready to go, they're ready to go. And I'm seeing your plans here and your proposal and
everything, your architectural drawings, and I'm prepared to make a determination tonight. You on the other hand are suggesting that this is just a preliminary discussion. You're looking for feedback from us and then we'll tell you what are
our concerns and then you may address them and come back. Historically we expect things like peer review how they've asked for maybe a peer review of our traffic study. Sometimes there's peer review of the of the uh wastewater which we don't have here. Sometimes there's peer review on
storm water. So when that all happens in most larger developments and this is not one of them we kind of wait in the first meeting you know we need to hire a pair reviewer we need you to do this we need to do that that that's larger project so
that's what we really prepared and expected we have brought these drawings to as far as we possibly could so far ex with the exception of a couple of items I think from the fire department um that
we would make changes. Okay. Um and there's a thing called final permit plans. So once it goes through comp permit, we're doing this all over over again with Mark Gillis where where we get into the final permit plans where
it's going to be the parking lots, the the units themselves. You could say uh We're the ones who approve the parking once it leaves here. Say not the construction the the infrastructure that goes in.
I I I understand what you're saying, but we're going to look at a parking plan and we're either going to give it a thumbs up or a thumbs down. Right now, you have 30 parking spaces for 27 units. You should have close to what 43 44.
So, um, that's certainly a concern of mine. Um, and the others will weigh in as well, but like I said, a final decision on everything is going to go before this board. And what you're going to build
over there is going to be what we approve and not what we say, okay, and then you go and change them somewhere else. Right. We're clear on that. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Um, seven buffers.
Although buffer trees along Route 28 have been shown as retained, it looks like the rest of the site would be clearcut. Is that your intention to do that? No. Okay. There are mature trees along the southern property line
abuting a residential zoning district that should be retained. In addition to supplemental plantings and possibly a fence, utilities such as transform and emergency gas generators also need to be screened from Route 28. There are no buffer plantings shown at all along the
western property line. Do you um have you submitted a comprehensive landscape plan to us? No. When would you be doing that? It's not a requirement of the comprehensive permit application.
So, if you like us to do one, we can. The separation between us and the Bass River Motel is just offense. That's okay. Yeah. But I I think and others can weigh in. Uh, but I I I think
what we'd probably like to see is there are a number of trees along Route 28. I would like to see those not taken out. Um, and the ones that actually run along Pine Grove are mature and they're right out by the road. I don't would hope that you wouldn't have to remove those.
I don't think we would have to remove this parking lot we're building in right now. Existing parking lot. I I understand. Okay. Um, we'll probably have to trim stuff there. So, why don't we talk about architecture? The architecture is, this
is number eight. The architecture is not remotely Cape Cod in style and does not match the town's vision for Route 28. The rear of the building faces Route 28 and the planest, flattest side elevations along Pine Grove. Different materials, possibly roof pitch and more
detailed corners and overall improvement of the elevation facing the public ways should be required. The third building in the rear of the property should be reduced to twotory structure to scale down the building as part as the project moves
into the residential neighborhood. Um was there any discussion about uh amongst you and your your partners about making this look more Cape Cod with gable roofs and maybe cedar
shingles, clapboards, trim of that nature? the the the project is is designed right now with with cloudboard. It can be clboard shingles as well. Um
I didn't see clapboards on there. I don't think I don't know what it is. You know, a couple doors down there. It's all cement board. It's all cement board. But it's it's not it it you're talking Hardy board.
Yes. Hardy board. Okay. And And you you're talking clapboard style? Yes. All right. I don't think I have a plan that shows that. Is that Is that what that shows? Yeah, it's preliminary plan. And what we've done Okay, I see that.
All right. Um, had you considered those aren't double hung windows, correct? Those casement windows. Those are casement windows. Yeah. Had you considered double hung windows? We could. Would you consider gable roofs and hip roofs? What's happening here is these buildings
are all electric and they're going to be run by selfgeneration and those those roofs are going to be covered in solar panels and so we can't put the the eaves. Have you considered maybe uh just
the outsides of them being gabled and hipped around and then have a cutout on the roof itself to put your solar equipment so we could capture the style that we're looking for? From what I understand is a lot of those
gables will block the sun and you cannot block the sun to the to the panels and that's why they're done with flat roofs. So this this project is dependent upon being powered by solar panels. Yes.
It's all electric completely net zero buildings. But you could power them other ways. Is that fair to say? Back up. Yeah. You could power them without solar. Correct. You could just bring in electric. You can bring in gas. Correct. That'll go against most of the state
laws. But yes, we could do that. What state laws goals should be net net neutral by 2050? Cut them. I'm uh I don't think there's I I not aware of any law that would prevent it. Yeah. Electric.
Again, I think that's going to it's a concern it seems with every board that has weighed in that everything that I have in front of me that no one is in support of this architectural plan and they want to see
it looking more Cape Cod. So my question to you is if you bring in and you can show me a law that prohibits those utilities from powering these, but if you bring in gas and electric, let's just say you do, would that still
make this financially feasible? Sure. Because it's more expensive to go electric. Okay. So you can do it. All right. We could do it. But is somebody going to say you can't do it? Nobody's going to say we can't do it. No. Okay. Well, then okay, then that's
that's fine. Then then why don't we talk about then? So you if that's the case, then you'd be amenable to redesigning these in a more Cape Cod style. We're going with what we're going. These are modular constructed buildings.
The answer is yes or no. No. It's in the eye of the beholder. I don't know what I I don't I don't know what I'm I'm not disagreeing with anyone out there. No, we're we're the beholder.
Okay. So, is that something you consider doing? We would consider using uh shingles. We consider using cloudboard. Okay. So, what what if we talked about you coming back with a plan?
We'll just talk about the architecture uh that shows white cedar shingles, cornerboards with trim, gabled roofs. If you need to put some mechanicals on the roofs, you could hip them some of them like they did at the Cavalere. Have you looked over there at those designs? I
have. Yeah. Maybe something like that, which would be more compatible here. We'll look at it. Okay. All right. Um and then they just talk about future
project train uh changes if approved by the ZBA. Any significant subsequent changes to the project should be require a permit amendment which that would be certainly a condition. Um what I'm going to do right now is uh
we've covered some ground here and I just thought it would be best if we went over this what the planning board um suggested. I know Mary Wagan has proposed a uh a similar and we'll talk
about her memo in a moment. U but hers runs kind of dubtales this one with a few changes. Um, did you see her memo? I'm not going to go to her memo yet. What I want to do is we've covered this. Does anybody have
any questions regarding what we've covered here on these points? Anybody have anything to add? Not yet. Well, I'll tell you what. Um, did why don't we have go to questions of the petitioner right now for what we've been
talking about so far. Dick, would you like to uh ask a few questions? I'm trying to think about questions as opposed to comments. I have a lot of comments. Um I'm going to save them for a minute. Well, yeah. I I I mean I I don't understand why
some of the other um complexes in town that have been built in the not too distant uh past uh have the third floor under the eaves which would go up and units would be up on the third floor but they uh they
would not have this horrific flat roof looking uh buildings that we have here. uh not to mention the colors and the general general layouts in general. I mean, was any thought given to that or we just went went ahead with uh some box
idea out of Somerville? We actually like we like them and we if you look at the the building two down from me, that was a tax credit building where they were able to pay $600 $650 a
foot to build that. We're in the $400 foot is all we can afford on that site. You guys, the town gave them two and a folks. The town gave them $2 and a half million dollars to make those improvements. We're we're on our own. Um it's a $10.2
million project. We have 25% affordability. We don't get the tax credits from the federal government. So that's all we can do. We can make changes. Uh Zack I just want to show you this because it's kind of this is what I
call a blank slate where this is just the exterior of a building where we could put anything on the facade. We can change those windows. We can change the materials. So, I'm showing this as a blank slate, not some ugly building. And if we have have to if we have to get,
you know, fancy up top, we can do that as well. Okay. All right. All right. All right. So, in terms of this, there's a lot more to say about that, too. But in terms of the site, we got a 4 foot five inch buffer between you and the motel next door. Uh,
that's supposed to be a minimum of 10. You're supposed to have a minimum of 20 to the well, under our bylaw, under our normal bylaws. Uh, 20 to the residential district directly to your south. Uh, you're directly across from houses across the street as well. And we're only showing 19 ft instead of the 30t
required, normally required. in terms of setbacks from Pine Grove Road. Uh and and just from what you're putting in here as trees to be planted, it would seem to me that it does seem to be showing a few Wong
Pine grow being had kept. But I mean I mean that's just just terrible. I mean, I could go on and on and I'm supposed to be asking questions, but I I do want you to know at this point in case I don't get to ask questions that uh this is the most atrocious plan I've ever seen in my
in my time on the board. Absolutely completely unconducive to what we would like to see on Cape Cod, what we expect to see on Cape Cod for that matter. and too many units, too much overdevelopment of the site, and it's uh just horrific.
I've never I I I can't believe that anybody could come up with something like this for Cape God. Uh or or even Somerville for that matter. Y I don't know if it would look so bad in some Go ahead. Any uh
that is really hard to follow, D. the for for anyone listening to the uh crowd or potential future applicants. While I do appreciate the ability to change uh on the fly, I like to see a complete application when I sit down. Uh
so we know what we're voting on and we know what we have and not just for myself, but for the community itself. Uh I've read this many times. I don't see solar panels anywhere in here. the fact that it's changed from 27 to 23 in the first sentence.
I don't like that. I I like to know what we're dealing with when we're going to sit down and we prepare and we've all driven by the property and we read through all the data. Uh it's not the way the application should be processed uh for the community sake or for our sake. So, anyone listening in future
applications, please make sure that when you apply, it's your actual application and what you're asking us to review uh for that sake. But I'll let the rest of the board and the community I hope speak. Okay. John, questions, comments?
I have a few comments. I don't have a lot of questions. Um, you know, I'm concerned about the design obviously. Um, but I actually I do have a Why can't you put solar panels on a gable roof? Because it doesn't face south.
would love to do canopies, but people don't want canopies here either, so we're not doing canopies. So, so I'm concerned about the design. It's a triple decker, you know, again, that we'd see in any urban area. Um,
I'm also concerned that it's all 100% residential. I mean, that's not what our vision for this VCOD3 was. It's supposed to be mixed use. Um, and I know you originally had some thoughts about doing that. I'd like you to entertain those
thoughts again because uh that's that's what we were trying to create here. Um, a village that would be, you know, enjoyed by everyone, not just the residents of that that property. Um, parking certainly a concern. It sounds
like you can address that. Um, traffic on Pine Pine Grove, that's a concern. And I I did read through the traffic report. Again, uh I'm not convinced. Um the other thing I I was going to mention,
there's really no open space for I mean, if there are kids living in this uh project, where are they going to go uh during the day or afternoon after school? Where where are they going to play? In the parking lot.
So, that's a concern of mine. And then obviously the buffers I I noticed. So I do have a lot of concerns. I don't have any specific questions for you right now, but uh that's that's where I'm at with this project. Thank you. Questions, comments?
No, I totally agree with um comments um and John's. Okay. I don't have anything further to add. You know, I I I'm looking at a plan here. Thank you. I just Is this a Is this the plan that you originally proposed right here
originally? Originally, then we changed it and that was amended prior to the filing. Okay. I mean, this this is kind of a big building, okay? But at least the architecture is consistent with the surrounding area
here, certainly Cape Cod. Um, you know, I would suggest maybe you And instead of going with the third story, you do a larger gable that incorporates that upper floor into that gable. So,
okay, we could maybe consider something like that. Uh, so if we could cut this down a bit, um, why do we need three buildings? Do we do this with two buildings? Um
probably not you know because I have to create u 10% three bedrooms so I couldn't get the number with within two buildings. Hey I saw you I could do so to answer the question that building can be do as done as a six
which is two two bedrooms two three bedrooms two three bedrooms or it could be done as a seven it could be done as a 10 and it could be done as a 12. So, the building or you could build the buildings a little bit larger and put your units in
there. Uh, we're building these modular and we're we're set on uh 13 foot boxes. So, we're not stick building this. We don't plan to stick build this. We're going to do the buildings and we're going to bring them in. What What's the dimensions of the base
dimensions of the boxes? It's 13 by I think 16. So, what if you made one building 13 ft longer? We could look at that. I mean, we did have a 102 by 64. Was I don't want to I don't want to have
looked at that. What else? I I'm I'm thinking, again, this is just my thoughts. I've been over to the site. I'm very familiar with it. I'm thinking if we could get rid of one building. Yeah, we could push them all together. Well, I don't want to push them all together. I want to have two buildings.
Uh, and you know, I think we could get enough parking in there. I think we could get good landscaping in there. And I think perhaps maybe reposition that driveway a little further south down Pine Grove Road to
get it away from 28. Going to have Hold on, folks. I'm only talking about 10 feet. Okay. I'm not talking about No, you don't like that idea. Okay. All right. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Okay, I'm just I'm just brainstorming here, giving them something.
Hold on, folks. Please, please, please. I'm merely having a discussion with the petitioner about some ideas. Okay. Um, but I did I I I did think perhaps we could uh make the buildings a little bit
bigger and cut them down from three to two because I don't Yeah, I mean that's something that we definitely I mean we have a we we have a meeting on a different property on Tuesday that we could bring up all of the concerns that were mentioned here
tonight with the architectural team. How do people feel about how does the Now we're not holding anybody to anything but I just my idea of cutting it from three to two and perhaps hold on folks please please please come on come on come on
too much I I wouldn't be comfortable unless uh the threetory I would agree cutting it down to no more than two buildings that the two buildings should the third floor should be under the uh under the eaves to make
it look more appropriate like a habitable attic, right? Yeah. Yeah. We could you could do it. Yeah. Like some of the other developments have done. Uh that the whole outside of the building one way or another be made to look more Cape Cottish. Uh that if they're cutting down the number of units to what would be
more appropriate that they would then have trouble for proper buffers and proper plantings and proper retention of existing trees. uh that there should be a playground on the site that uh the uh you know they
don't have any in-law trees. That's another one that's missing. Uh I mean there's just on and on and on has been stated by a number of people here. This is just you know 40B certainly allows you a lot of leverage or leeways I should say but it doesn't
allow you every le leeway and uh right now you're looking for every leeway and then some. So, uh, uh, yeah, it's going to have to come back in a much different format than what I'm seeing right now. For my for my approval,
okay, Anthony, what do you think about the idea of going from three buildings to two buildings? Three to two is preferable. Uh, commercial on the ground is preferable. um personally and
the buffer zone on the south side if you're looking at it from 28 is absolutely necessary I think because that's where abuts the residential properties well I think we could move it towards if you eliminate one of those buildings it
gives you a lot more room to situate these buildings to move it away from residential properties but don't forget these are residential properties too. This This is your next door neighbor is a bedroom. So, it's not your next door neighbor is not a restaurant that if
there was any commercial activity out, it would be out front facing 28. So, we're not going to allow anything to be commercial. It's abuing any of the residential. So, we are talking about residential, but would give us a lot of latitude uh if we went from three
buildings to two to move it around the site with some different ideas. You're 32 feet in height right now to the to the top of the power pit. Yeah. 35. Okay. Um
I'd like to see a planned if we're going to do some habitable attics and some gables and things that go up. Um, if they went a little higher than 35, we could at least consider what we're looking at to try to get have you get
your units, 20 of them. Yeah. And if they you're reducing the number of units and they're under a a a uh indented a sloped uh third floor and
dropping the units and you should be able to keep within your 35 ft there too. You can see how that works out. Okay. I'd like to see a plan on that one. Okay. If if it looked like you couldn't do it,
maybe that's something we could consider giving you some relief on the height. Not a ton, but bear in mind that the height for the Cavalere, I think, is 45 ft. That's what it's allowed over there in the uh under the 404. So, it wouldn't be
totally out of scale. Uh certainly we're not going to I I couldn't see us allowing you 45 ft in height, but if it was you cutting the building down from 3 to two and we were trying to get gable roofs to comply more with the surrounding neighborhoods and the architecture, there there might be room
for a tradeoff there. Um so that's a possibility. It's a possibility that we will discuss. I don't know how modular works with that third floor man roof. I don't know how
it works. So, we'll we'll ask. Well, you can buy modulars any way you want them. Yeah. I mean, I have friends that build modulus and they you look at them and they've all got g beautiful homes with So, you So, you know, okay, you can do
it. Um, and I uh I I do agree that in that way I think if we went from three to two, we could certainly get extra parking in here because parking is key. I really am going to have a real hard time agreeing to anything less than one
and a half parking spaces per unit. And that's going to be tight. I've heard this idea floated around about a tenant can only have one car. Forget that idea. We're not going to put the burden on the tenant. the burden's going to be on the developer and the owner of the property
and that we don't want cars parked on Pine Grove Road and tickets being handed out and violation notices. We don't want to go down that road. Let's handle it in the beginning so we don't get there. Great. Would you still want to peer review
if it's if we one and a half if we think it's necessary? Sure. I'm just floating some ideas. I mean, I'm just one person just throwing things out for discussion right now because I
mean the petitioner has indicated to us this isn't even a final plan he's asking for approval on. This is just a concept. So, since we're in the conceptual phase here, let's give them some ideas and we can uh we can have them go back to the
drawing board and reposition some things on the lot. My thinking is that if you put a well, if you put one building to the right of the driveway and give us sufficient buffers from 28 and set it back a little bit from Pine Grove Road so it doesn't look like it's right on top of it
because I think you're at what 19 ft off the road right now in Pine Grove. That's too tight on Pine Grove. Pine Grove are busy. Everybody knows Pine Grove is busy. Okay. Especially in the summertime, it's one of the the busiest out on 28 there is and it can be
difficult to get out and so we we we don't want to be overwhelmed at that corner or a big wall. No, we don't want a big wall. No shining down on us 24/7. No. So we wanted to So the further back that we can get it, the more scale that
it's going to look. So when you take that corner, I'd like to be able to leave all those mature trees that are there. So really, it just looks like you put a couple of buildings right there, set back, and everything in the corner of Pine Grove Road pretty much looks the
same. That's how I kind of envision it. Anybody uh have any comments about that thought? I think it's a good uh thought. Reducing to two units would alleviate a lot of my issues. You know, it open. It probably wouldn't be reduced into two
units. Would push two building units. Yes. And I and I think we're going to have to allow you to try to build one of those buildings at least bigger to get sufficient units. Can we agree on 20 units? Right now, we can agree that we would be pushing
two 52x 54s together and then having a 52x 54. We could agree on that. Well, that's three buildings. That's the That's the site plan review. That's the site plan. So, same size. Same size. We want you to We want you to
take two buildings. We want one building gone. You got two 54s by what are they? 54s by 54s. 5 52. 52 by 52. Yeah. So, make them 75 by 52. Two buildings.
That's pretty much what I said, but I had it 104 by 52. Well, you you scared us with that word 104. We don't like triple digits. No, we will study the heck out of that. Okay. Yeah. Um, any other comments from the board right
now? One more. Well, I think I think he understands the and and I don't want to speak for the the folks in the audience, but I I think I can pretty much take their temperature and I think that they're pretty much in agreement with all the concerns that the board has, all
the concerns that the town uh the town boards have that have weighed in on this uh especially planning. They put together a very nice memo. Mary Wagan put together a very nice memo. Um, so are you prepared to go back and try
to redesign something for us and submit some drawings to us? We will let you know on Tuesday after we have our conversations with our architect, but I really do think it's easy enough to do the two building design as long as we can get what we
need to get and it does not have to be 27 units. Why don't Would you would you agree? Can Can you make this work with 20 units? No. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. We're asking
the questions here. Come on here, folks. You can't get it done for 20. Can you show that you can Can you show us that that you can't get it done for 20? We'll do the financials after we've gone through all of this and and and build a nice restaurant there.
You know, I own three restaurants. All right. And every person I I I talked to about this building a restaurant there, they're like, "Forget about it." You know, forget about it. No, I I think I think any commercial component is going to have to be very
passive. Absolutely. Anything like a Well, maybe something, you know, along the lines of a professional building or something like that. I mean, I just don't see any retail traffic. You're not That would never work. If they're building just a restaurant,
then they don't need 40B. They don't need Well, they're not building a restaurant. That's not what they say. You got a design for a restaurant and a hotel, and that was poo pooed as well. So, um, so what's the pleasure uh what's the
pleasure of the board right now? Do we want to continue this and and have them are you gonna be able to get us? How long would it take you to get us some updated drawings? I just push it back the month to your next uh meeting in
I mean we want to give you enough time. We'd like to No, we could do it. We could roll it over pretty quickly, but it wouldn't be in the two weeks. No, no, no, no, no. We We'll give you two. We We'll We'll just If you sign an extension, we'll have signing extensions. What's that?
We have 180 days. Yeah, we don't need an extension at this point. Oh, okay. From the state expires in 28 days. Go through the whole process again. Well, ho ho, hold on, hold on. Um, we we've we've addressed that. We've
reserved our rights whether this eligibility letter is sufficient for them to proceed. He doesn't even know what he's doing. He doesn't even know what he's asking. Sir, ready to sir. Sir, sir, sir. We all feel the same way.
I don't really want to have to do this again. No, no, no. I mean, start removing people. Okay. I can't have you outburst like that, sir. I know. I I I understand your passion. Okay. And everybody else, sense.
Okay. Please. Um, well, I I think at this point because we don't have a set of plans here that we're going to vote on, I what I would like to do is have the petitioner, go back to your architects, draw us two
buildings, stick them on the site, give us the architecture that we're asking for if you want to use this as a template. Was this what you This is what you originally designed, correct? That's a building we did in Situ. So Oh, I Okay. So, you did this in Situ. Well, this is certainly more pleasing, I
think, to at least to me. You've seen this one, Dick? Yeah, I have. And that's Anthony and Barbara. Take a look. That's what they did elsewhere. But if we could have two buildings that looked like that, uh, and you come back to us, why don't
we try to do that with two buildings? Um, if you want to come back with 23 units, come back with 23 units at least to look at, right? And we can have an argument about whether that's something we can live with or not. I mean, I think everybody would agree
that the site needs to be upgraded. It does. It's an abandoned laundromat right there and it's just dilapitating. Does nothing for any of us to have it just sit there and rot away. I mean, if you're talking about having two nice new
buildings sitting there that look nice. Well, okay. Why so why so tall? Well, we we we we haven't we haven't decided on what is too tall, but they can go up 35 ft by right,
but the little signs on 28 can only be one story. You can't even build a sign. Well, I'm not getting into the signage part of it right now, but I'm just saying what they can build heightwise, but I would like to see what you can come up with and and submit those back
to us. And uh how long do you need realistically? Give us the month. What's our November um uh the hearing in November would be November 13th. November 13th. Yes, sir. Would you be ready to go by that?
Sure. All right. That's what we're going to do. We're going to continue this matter until November 13th. I'm not going to take any comment right now because we don't know what we're commenting on. So, why don't we all get the new plans? We can all digest it and then we can all
come back and we'll certainly listen to everybody's uh comments and concerns. Sound like a deal. Yeah. Deal. Thank you. Thank you. All right. So, uh we're we're going to continue this matter. But we need a motion to continue.
Anybody to make a motion to continue this matter? I'll second. We got a motion to continue it till November 13th. Made by Anthony. Seconded by Dick. Barbara. Hi. John. Hi. Anthony. Hi.
Dick. And I'm an I. This matter is continued till November 13th. We'll look forward to hear some plans here. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. So many. Well, it's whoever wants to come up. We're going to let everybody chime in,
but we don't want to chime in now until we get hip know what we're talking. We'll let you Well, believe me, we'll see you. It's going to be We We need a photometric plan, too. Did
they submit that? We We We've got a ways to go here, folks. Okay. So, nothing's going to get rushed. All right. We've got I can assure you that all of your concerns are our concerns as well.
I'm sure it is. I'm sure it is. We're going to No, we're there's two ways to be heard. Just to let you know, I don't know if you want to adjourn the meeting, Mr. Chairman. Did you want to adjourn the meeting, Mr. Chairman? We got to adjourn the meeting. Yes. Motion to adjourn. Second. Second. All those in favor? I. All
right. Thanks. Would you invite team recording stopped to