WEBVTT

METADATA
Video-Count: 1
Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=Wl88rC_Q0O8

NOTE
MEETING SECTIONS:

Part 1 (Video ID: Wl88rC_Q0O8):
- 00:00:00: Meeting Convenes, Quorum Established, Petition 5230 Intro
- 00:03:02: Petition 5231: James Hoffner Deck Extension Request
- 00:10:56: Petition 5233: John Tally Lobster Sales Special Permit
- 00:26:07: Public Comments on Petition 5233: Tracy Bur
- 00:27:14: Public Comments on Petition 5233: Joe Glenn
- 00:30:15: Deliberation and Motion for John Tally Lobster Sales
- 00:44:41: Continued Debate; Amending Hours of Operation
- 00:53:57: Petition 5232: Jennifer Wallace Wellness Business Request
- 01:22:55: Public Comments on Petition 5232: Wendy O'Keefe
- 01:24:01: Board Deliberation, Original Proposal Unlikely to Pass
- 01:30:49: Petitioner Responds, Offers a Simplified Proposal
- 01:37:13: Board Agrees on Modified Special Permit for Massage


Part: 1

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Recording in progress. >> Have to go grab dick. Yeah. >> Yeah. No kidding. >> Can you hear us, Anthony? >> I'm here. >> Okay. Very good. Very good. Okay. Uh, good evening, folks. My name is Sean

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Igo. I'm the chairman of the Yamising Board of Appeals. Uh, we're going to convene today's meeting. It's May 14th, 2026. And we're going to start by establishing a quorum. Uh

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Anthony >> President, >> Dick >> here, >> John >> here, >> Barbara >> here, >> and I'm here as well. Having established a quorum, we will now begin the meeting. First matter on our agenda is petition 5230.

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Albert J. Maldun III and Patricia Maldun. properties located at 28 Little Dipper Lane, South Yamouth, Mass. The applicant seeks a special permit per 104.3.2 subsection 2 to raise and replace an ex

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pre-existing non-conforming structure and construct a two-story house with a roof deck. Um, I don't know if there's anybody here on that matter, but there has been a request to withdraw without prejudice.

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Um, we have a letter from attorney Paul Tardiff who represented the petitioner or who represents the petitioner addressed to me. Uh, dear Mr. Igo, as you know, this office represents Albert J. Maldun and Patricia Maldun and the

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request for special permit to allow for the raising replacing of a single family dwelling of the property at 28 Little Dipper Lane, South Yarmouth. Hearing on this matter was originally scheduled for Thursday, May 14th, 2026.

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At this time, based on the need to complete flood compliance and address the conservation commission regarding this project, my client has authorized me to request that this petition be withdrawn without prejudice. I appreciate your time and attention to this matter. Please advise if I need to

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appear in person to present this request. Well, I certainly don't think attorney Tart needs to come down. Um would anybody is anybody wish to have a discussion on this or someone prepared to make a motion?

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>> Uh I would move the petition 5230 be allowed to withdraw without pressures. >> Okay. Do we have a second on that matter? >> Second. >> Seconded by John. Motion made by Dick. Any discussion on this hearing? None. We're going to take a roll call vote.

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Anthony >> I >> Barbara >> I >> John >> I >> Dick >> I >> and I'm an I as well. Uh that is allowed. This matter has been withdrawn without prejudice. Okay. >> Let's see. Did I already lose my agenda

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here? I threw it away. All right, the next matter is petition 5231. James Hoffner properties located at 9 River Drive, South Yarmouth. It's in a B40, excuse me, in R40 zoning district.

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The applicant seeks a special permit per 104.3.2 subsection 2 for front sandbank relief to construct a 10 by30 deck. Do we have the petitioner? Come forward, please, sir. Have a seat. >> Thank you.

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>> Okay. And if you could identify yourself for the record. >> Sure. >> My name is James Hefner. I'm one of the owners of the house at Nine River Drive in Yarm in South Yarmouth. >> Okay. Um, all right. We have some plans

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here. A site plan. Uh, tell us a little bit about what you want to do. It's pretty self-explanatory. You want to put a deck on the side of your house? >> Yeah, we've got a We bought the house about a year and a half ago. Um, and it's got a sun room on the side and it's

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got a small front porch deck. We wanted to extend that and kind of wrap it around the length of the sun room. >> Okay. >> At the time, we didn't realize we were encroaching on the setbacks when we had done the plan. I think the drawing indicates that it's 30 foot frontage and 20 foot side. I made the assumption and

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thank you to Dolores who corrected me that I have two frontages. Yeah, that's a little confusing. Yeah, a lot of people don't know that with corner lots you have two fronts and two sides. It makes sometimes it's a little difficult to develop the property because you get your setback is on two sides. Yeah,

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>> we didn't recognize that. So, >> all right. So, you're here seeking relief on one of the setbacks for the front. >> Correct. >> All right. Let me just take a look. >> So, we're all on the same page. I have 2.7 >> 22.7

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on the setback on Turner Lane after the deck. And then we have 31, my guess would be 3142. What's that? A staircase that comes down on the other side. >> It's a very short deck and and a staircase. >> Okay. Okay.

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>> 31 three on the proposed. >> Okay. All right. Um, >> anything else you'd like to add at this time? >> I know I I believe our contractor, David Cox, has met with the building commissioner and discussed the plans

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with them, and my feedback was that there was no issues with the plan as we presented it and whatnot. >> Okay. Plan's okay. You just need some relief from us. >> Neither relief. >> Okay. All right. So, >> all right. Well, we're going to go to board members, see if they have any questions for you.

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>> Dick, do you have any questions for the district? >> Uh, no. I don't think I have any questions. Uh we're just, you know, we're looking for about seven or eight ft uh uh relief on the turn lane side only.

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And I think because of the corner lot and the the problems that can make for a petitioner that I I think that this is a um a reasonable request. So,

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>> okay. All right. John, questions, thoughts? >> I don't have any questions, but I agree with Dick. Seems reasonable to me. So, >> okay. >> For me, >> Barbara, questions, thoughts? >> I don't have any questions. I think Dick stated it well. Thank you.

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>> All right, Anthony, you have any questions for the or any comments? >> Uh, no questions. I'll save my comments for deliberation. >> Okay. Um, I don't have any questions.

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Um, I'm very familiar with the property. I run by your house frequently, so I know the the property well. Um, looks like you probably get somewhat of a view maybe of the river uh when you construct

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it. Maybe. >> I think two trees were lost during the winter storm. So, I think we have an opportunity to see >> an opportunity. Okay. All right. >> We've tried to we've cleared the property out if if you're familiar with it, since we purchased and and tried to make some improvements to the property,

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we put a fence up and some other things. So, >> Okay. Okay. All right. Um All right. Is there anyone in the audience that wishes to speak in favor of this petition? If so, please come to the microphone. Do we have anyone with their hands

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raised? Dolores. >> Uh no, Mr. Chairman. >> Okay. If there's anyone who wishes to speak in opposition to this petition, please come to the microphone. Hearing none. Is there anything else you'd like to add? >> This is the first time I've ever had to

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ask for a variance. If I could just understand what happens next or what that process >> Well, if you don't have anything to add, then you're good. We'll just >> I think we >> You don't want to know. >> I don't think you really need to. Yeah. Unless you have something else you'd

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like to add. We we pretty much got the gist of it. >> No, there's no other information that >> and it's a a special special permit. >> Special permit. You don't need a variance. This is an extension. >> All right. So, we're going to close the hearing to the public, open it up for board deliberations. So, what are your

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thoughts, Anthony? >> Um the um the request is within the scope of what we would normally grant for a special permit. uh looking at the neighborhood, I think it's within the parameters of what the neighborhood

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looks like and wouldn't be it wouldn't deviate from the intent of the bylaws. So, I think they meet the criteria for a special permit in this uh this area. I would have my support behind it and vote I. >> Okay. Thank you.

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Anyone else have anything? I've heard from the rest of the board. I would echo uh Dicks as well as Anony's comments. I do think you meet the criteria. I don't think there's going to be any detriment to the neighborhood. I think uh it does

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meet the purpose and intent of the bylaw. I plan on supporting it. Excuse me. If there's no further discussion, is anyone prepared to make a motion? >> Oh, was there a other talk? Sorry, I don't know if I cut somebody off.

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>> No. Would you like to make a motion, Anthony? >> Yeah, I'd make a motion that we approve the special permit as requested. >> Okay. Do we have a second? >> Okay. Yeah, I'll second. You go. >> Okay. John, you're going to second. Motion made by Anthony, seconded by

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John. Uh, any further discussion? Hearing none, we're going to do a roll call. Dick >> I. >> John, >> I. >> Barbara, >> I. Anthony >> I >> and I'm an I as well. The special permit is granted. Now once it's drafted, it's

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then recorded with the town clerk. 20 days must elapse. That's a technical appeal period. I don't think anybody's going to appeal it. After that, Dolores will contact you. We'll issue you the special permit. You need to take it over to the registry of deeds in Bonsible Village, record it, and then just bring

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a copy back for our records. >> And then construction at that point. At that point, you can just the building department will be notified and uh you'll be good to get your building permit. >> Thank you very much. >> Any questions? >> I have none. >> All right. Good luck with your project. >> Thanks very much. >> Thank you. Have a nice night.

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>> Thank you, sir. >> Thanks for all your help. >> Have a nice evening. >> You too. >> Okay. The next bar on our agenda is petition 5233. John Frederick Tally, trustee of the John Frederick Holly

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Living Trust at 23 Iraquoy Boulevard, West Jarmath. It's in an R25 zoning district. The applicant seeks a special permit per 202.5 footnote 55 for a B5 use to allow the retail sales of live

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lobsters. The applicant requests a waiver from the requirement for a certified site plot plan less than two years old. Good evening, gentlemen. >> Good evening. >> Could you identify yourselves for the record, please? >> Happily. Uh Jonathan Paloney, uh attorney out of Sen Associates in

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Brewster. I'm here representing John Tally, who's with me this evening this application request. >> Okay. >> John Ty. >> Good evening, Mr. Ty. Good evening. >> Good evening, council. >> Uh please proceed. >> Thank you. Um so, as you know, this is a

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special permit application under the newly approved provisions of the zoning bylaw. uh footnote 55. >> Okay. >> Um allowing consideration of the sale of lobsters at a residential property. Uh property is located at 23 IQqua

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Boulevard. Um which is in the R25 zoning district. Um it's a single family dwelling. The lot size is roughly 13,68 square ft. um it has been used as uh for this

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particular use uh for over 50 years. So there isn't really any change that's being proposed. Um this is a corner lot. There is a kind of a path through gravel driveway which I tried to identify on the site plan that we filed and um we did pull this site plan with the help of

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the building commissioner from the building file. Um, so it's an older plan, but nothing has changed on the lot in terms of the location of the house or anything else that's shown on that plan. So that has all the setbacks and distances are still the same. And the

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again the area that's being used and is intended to be used under the special permit would be within the gravel area um around the house. >> Okay. >> And so the the intent being to authorize retail sale of lobsters on the property. Um, people who want to buy lobsters

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would be coming to the property. They can pass through, and John can correct me if I get anything wrong here, but they can pull onto the property um, off of the street fully onto the property. Um, they can purchase what they want to purchase and then they can exit the

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property. And again, this is this is something that's been going on for over 50 years at this property without any incident. Um, we've had prior letters of support submitted in other materials which I think are still part of the record, but there are six or seven

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properties that either directly but this property or in close vicinity of the property that have expressed their support for this uh retail operation. >> So, we're we're here asking for a special permit basically to acknowledge that under this new provision of the bylaw.

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>> Okay. Thank you very much. All right. Um, I know in the past that there's been many people here that have shown their support for Mr. Tali. Um, I do have two letters that I'm going to read into the record of support that we did receive in

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our packet. Um, this is from Gail >> Gay. Gayy. >> Okay. And she's at uh looks like is she at 31? 31 IO Boulevard. So, she's one of

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your neighbors. And she writes, "I live across the street from John Tally. And there are no problems with him selling lobsters from his house. There are no long lines or loud noise. It's very quiet. You would never know he sells them there.

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Please award him whatever he needs, either selling or advertising his product. And that's signed by Gail Gaye. The next letter is from Diane Ginski

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and she lives at quite sure where she lives. I think she lives out on South. Is that where she lives? >> Yes, Mr. Chairman. do self. I don't think it says here, but oh, here we go. Yeah, it's right here. >> Um,

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>> this is email to communicate my husband John and myself, Diane of 52F, South Seab, West Jamoth, West Jam's thoughts. As neighbors of Mr. Taly, we have been shocked and dismayed at the way the town has treated this lifelong resident and

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his quest to continue to sell his lobster at his properties. I will make this short. We have been summer owner residents here since the the '9s. However, we have been vacationing West Jamoth for my entire life. 64 years.

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She even told us her age. Okay. Uh John selling lobsters has never been any problems for us. His property is meticulously maintained always. We have met many vacationers who absolutely love slash and plan for his lobsters

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while visiting. We wholeheartedly support his petition to be allowed to sell his lobsters moving forward. Um, I'm not going to get into the rest of her. It is uh talking about things.

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I'll just leave the rest of it out. We'll just say that she's in support of your petition. I don't think the rest of it needs to be read in the record except I appreciate you you reading our thoughts and hope this petition is passed. John can once again sell his lobsters from his property. That's from

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Diana. John. Okay. Um I have a couple of questions and I'm going to go to the board. Um I think traditionally you sold lobsters from 4 to 6:30. Are those your hours of operation?

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>> No, that's not the truth, Sean. That's what I had in the sign there. >> Okay. >> I really sell them. If someone comes over the house at 9:00 in the morning, you know, I get in from Lumpren, 9, 10, 11, you know, all I'd say till like 7 o'clock because that's just what

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I had on the sign. That's not really the hours that I saw them. >> Okay. So, what hours of operation are you looking? >> I'm saying from 9 to 7. >> How many days a week? >> That's every day of the week. But it's not like there's a lot of people going in there. This is what people think

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that's you know you that you guys think this sometimes they only have two or three people sometimes they have 20 you know it's not like every day occurrence there's more traffic going down there now with the construction going on than there is in the middle of the summer when everyone cuts through that way so it's like you know so there's not really

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that many people sometimes I have no people you know you get into September and October hardly anyone >> and so what would your season be >> it's basically ally only from we'll just say from from Labor Day until the end of

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October and then you know once I >> mean Memorial Day >> excuse memorial day to the end to the end of October and you know once I sell all the lobsters I I stop you know I only have x amount what I catch so >> I only catch 50 pounds I mean you know

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sell them fast >> okay okay all right Um, and right now your signage would be uh your A-frame sign that you have out there now. >> Well, well, no, no, I have another

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I applied for one for out there on 28, which I already have the sign permit. And then there'll be a new sign permit, but it's an A-frame. It's an A-frame sign because that's what it says on the It says I can have an A-frame sign two two feet by three feet. >> And yeah, for the property for my

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property. Any other signage would be addressed through the >> Yeah, the bylaw. >> I'm just we we just got the the bylaw. I mean, just >> I mean I mean through the signed bylaw. If there was other avenues of >> You're not looking for that. You're

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you're not here. All you're looking for tonight is a special permit to sell lobster. >> And the sign goes and and I can have a sign. I have to pay for, you know, $40 for it, but I can have the sign once I pay the 40. Well, that's what I want to talk to you

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about. Your sign. This is a sign that will be on the property, correct? >> Yep. That's correct. It's >> an A-frame. >> Okay. I mean, I'm familiar with it. I've driven by it plenty of times. >> Okay. >> Okay. All right. I don't have any other

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questions right now. Uh Dick, do you have questions? Have there been any uh complaints or expected complaints from any of your immediate neighbors? Oh, >> they all signed an affidavit saying >> and I know it for Yeah.

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>> I mean, there's no one no one's ever complained of it. >> My my understanding just limitedly is that the violation notices that preceded amending the bylaw had to do with the signage and not with

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the use of the property. Okay. Um, I don't have anything else. >> Okay. John, do you have any questions for the uh petitioner? >> Not at this time. You asked the

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questions I had in mind. So, I'm all set for now. >> Okay. >> Thank you, >> Barbara. Do you have any questions? >> Um, I don't know if we asked this question before, but um You have the ability to weigh these

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lobsters and make sure they're of legal size. >> Yeah, I have the ability. I licensed by the state and I have a sticker on my on my scale from the county. >> Okay. Yeah. All right. Good. Thank you.

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>> Oh, yeah. Definitely. >> That's all I have. >> On that really really the >> Who's that uh chiming in? It's Joe Glenn. Mr. Chairman, I I I heard you read off Glenn. The chair does

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not recognize you. >> Okay. I'm sorry. >> Okay. >> I have a question for you. >> Yes. >> Correct me if I'm wrong. The size of your losses and the weight of them, that's controlled by the state. Is that correct? Okay. That's not under our

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purview. So, that would be someone else that would would take care of that. Okay. I just wanted to >> clear that up. Okay. Anything else, Bob? >> No, no. I just wanted to make sure that he had the ability to confirm what size they were, how much they weighed.

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>> Okay. >> All right. Okay. Uh, Anthony, do you have any questions for the petitioner? >> I do. Did you uh could you explain how the violation notices came to be, >> the best of your understanding?

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>> Well, I I could explain that if you'd like. Um, prior to the change of the zoning bylaw, um, this was a prohibited use in the district. Mr. Tally, who was represented, had been

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doing this for a long time, I would suggest, didn't realize he was in violation of it, and he was issued violation notices. He appeared in front of this board seeking a variance prior to this. Unfortunately, the board felt

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he didn't meet the criteria for a variance. Um, he subsequently came back after another violation notice. This board determined that it was not timely filed. >> A repetitive petition. >> A repetitive petition that was not Yes.

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And so we voted that way. Um, and so subsequent to that, the voters of town meeting passed and added a section of the bylaw that would allow him to sell live lobsters from his home as others would be allowed as well by way of a

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special permit. Entirely different criteria, special permit versus a variance. Um, if the board determines tonight that he meets the criteria for a special permit, then we could vote in favor. But that's something that we'll discuss. But the

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violation notices were issued. I don't think there's been any action taken on the violation notices. I know there was some litigation. Uh I don't know where that is right now, but I would suggest that that would have stayed any >> enforcement of those uh violations. Is

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that correct, council? >> I think that's accurate. >> Okay. >> Does that answer your question, Anthony? >> No. Sorry, chair chairman. It doesn't. I was I was on uh I was sitting for both of the the >> Oh, I see. What was your question?

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>> The So, it it comes down to uh it had not been he had not been Mr. Totally. Correct me if I'm wrong. He hadn't been issued a violation notice prior. Uh and then to your understanding, there was a complaint

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made about uh traffic and access to your property that started with >> that created the violation notice. Is that correct? >> No, that's Do you want me to tell Do you want me to say who >> Well, I can just go ahead council. >> The the complaint was about signs off

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premises. That's what initiated the complaint. And when the building commissioner investigated what the signs were directing to, that was when he determined that the use was not allowed under the zoning bylaw. That's what led to the first hearing in front of the

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zoning board. And after that, council got involved. We tried to bring a second hearing and that's what led to the second denial which then led to a land court action which as the chairman stated is on hold right now while while we consider uh the changes to the zoning

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bylaw. >> Okay. >> Anthony, does that answer your question? >> Yes. >> Okay. Um you have any other questions for the petitioner? >> I don't.

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>> Okay. All right. Anybody else from the board? >> No. Okay. Uh, is there anyone in the audience that wishes to speak in favor of this petition? If so, please come to the microphone, identify yourself, and

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uh, tell us your thoughts. >> Good evening. Tracy Bur from Yamathport. This has been a longgoing process to say the very least. We, the town of Yamoth, did vote on this and it's time to just

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end it and let him get his what he needs to do to sell his lobster. It's time to just stock now. That's what Cape Cod's about. It's about the fishing and the cranberry bogs and the farming and the old stories. We're losing our generations of generations

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on the Cape, especially Yarmoth. I'm born and raised here. My family's a Thatcher cashes. It's enough. It's It's time. It's time to just swallow it. give him what he needs. >> Okay. >> And and just stop it. It's time.

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>> All right. Well, thank you. Thank you for your thoughts. >> Anyone else? >> Anybody with their hands raised that wishes to speak in favor of this petition? >> Uh yes, Mr. Glenn has his hand raised, sir. >> Glenn, the chair recognizes you. Please

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tell us your thoughts. I If you could identify yourself for the record. Joe Glenn 822 Route 28 South Armit. >> Mr. Glenn, >> I apologize first, Mr. Chairman. I I I came in in the middle, so I didn't know if I had missed the window, so when they

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unmuted me, I thought I would have the opportunity to get in. >> Um, so anyway, um, I I'm uh chiming in to uh support Mr. Tally, but I and I don't want to uh grasp defeat from the

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uh jaws of victory. Um, and I I have a feeling that that you are about to be fair. Um, and I think that you would do it for anyone and uh that's the reason why I I'm supporting Mr. Ty, but I think you would

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do this uh for anybody in the community. um you know and I think you guys uh want to encourage business and so I uh I just call on you to uh support Mr. Ty and and approve his uh signage and and whatever

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uh uh restrictions or endorsements that you have. Thank you very much. >> Thank you, Mr. Glenn. Do we have anybody else with their hands raised? >> Uh no, Mr. Chairman. >> Okay. Is there anyone who wishes to speak in opposition to this petition? If

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so, please come to the microphone. Seeing none, does anyone have their hands raised? >> No, Mr. Chairman. >> Okay. All right. Uh, is there anything else that you'd like to add? >> I don't think so. >> Okay. Then we're going to close the

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hearing to the public. We're going to begin board deliberations. Um, Dick, what are your thoughts? I think as long as uh I guess I forgot. Are we allowing the

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sign? Well, what what we would allow is we would allow the and this is all new to us by the way. We just got this hot off the press. So, if we're not familiar with it, and when I say like within hours. Okay. So, yeah. Um

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>> he's allowed to have the one A-frame sign a frame sign. Okay. >> Right. not to exceed six square ft in area >> just on the site >> be located on this property. >> Right. Okay. No, I don't have any problem then. I think everybody's made their um opinions well well known about

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this particular issue and I think it I would tend to agree that it's a Cape Cotty type thing and if it's not uh bothering any of the neighbors, which apparently it isn't, I uh I'm not going to have any trouble with it. >> Okay.

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Barbara, >> no. I don't have any further questions. >> John, your thoughts? >> No. I mean, I think he would qualify for a special permit based on the new. So, >> okay. Anthony, what are your thoughts?

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Um, yeah, I couldn't support a special permit on this for even with the change in the bylaw, which putting aside that the change in the bylaw, I think is directly only related to Mr. Ty's effect, and I appreciate the

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support that the town has given him. Um, and want him to survive as he did last summer. Um I I couldn't support adding 20 vehicles or any additional vehicles for a commercial a very clearly commercial enterprise on you know small

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traveled lanes in our town. I I think it goes against the intent of our bylaw. The the bylaws are to promote the health and wellness wellness of uh our community. I I'll read it the health, safety, convenience and welfare of the inhabitants. Uh, and I I think it goes

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against all of those. Um, by having a very clear commercial space, uh, in a residential zone like this, um, I don't think it meets the criteria for the the bylaw. Uh, so I wouldn't be in support

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of it. The traditional ones that we find support of in having a commercial entity in a residential zone is to have somebody that has an inhome shop that doesn't have customers or has very few or has, you know, does woodworking at their home and allowed to do it. Things

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like that uh are the exceptions that we grant special permits for. a a commercial space that has 20 cars at one time or 20 people at one time open from 9:00 am to 7 pm. You can find a commercial space for

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that. It's not in a residential zone. I couldn't support it in any way. >> Okay. >> As presented. >> Thank you. >> Well, I I I think we have a a unique situation here with

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Mr. Tally. I tend to agree to a certain point with my friend Anthony. Um, sometimes what we do in situations like this is we grant the use to a person. It's a personal use that

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is exclusive to you during your time. It doesn't run with the land, which I couldn't support something that ran with the land anyway. after you your use is done, it would lapse. I would say this about Mr. Tolly's property that does

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make it a little bit different. He's on Irakcoy Boulevard. He is three houses down on the right off South. When you come up the top of the street, you're looking directly across at a commercial parking lot. He is one

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block removed from Route 28 in the commercial district. So he is relatively close as the as the crow flies to commercial areas. So I do think that makes him a little bit unique. He has been operating here for quite

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some time. Um I'm not quite sure what the uh actual volume of traffic. I know he says he wants to operate from 9 to 7. I think at least historically he's done 4 to

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6:30. Okay. Um I think that would be the time that you'd probably see the most traffic coming through there when people come off the beach and they're getting ready to take the lobsters home when they're live and they're ready to be cooked and eaten. So I'm not quite sure

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how many people would be buying them at 9 in in the morning. Uh, I can understand how you'd want to have that option to operate those hours. Um, Anthony, do you think you could support this if

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that it was more if it was personal in nature to Mr. Tally when his use ends that the special permit lapses and also that maybe his hours of operation aren't as long as what he's requesting. Maybe we

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could fashion it so it's a little bit closer in time. maybe afternoon where there's not any detriment to the the morning people or well I I maybe just the morning people although it is the summertime but

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could you could you support that >> I want I want Mr. to succeed in have his business. I just don't think as an interpretation of the bylaw, which is our position, that I have the grounds to support a special permit at this

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property for this size. >> No, no, you're you're I respect your opinion. Um >> Sean that it is already in there about special permits for retail of sales of liable offices shall expire upon transfer of the property.

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>> Well, this is upon transfer of the property. I would suggest that we if we're going to support this that it lapse upon his specific uh cease of use. So someone else couldn't come in and operate that from

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his property. We've done that in the past. Given exclusive special permits to individuals. I could support that. I I don't think I could support, you know, if he moves to Florida and decides to rent his house out and someone continues

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to sell lobsters at that residence. That I think would be a bridge too far for me. But >> not too likely, but yeah, it's possible. >> I mean, you could do it. You could do it. Um, I could support if this was exclusive to

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Mr. Tall's use of it. Um, and again, I do appreciate Anony's comments and all of these are facts specific, too. So, if someone else comes in and asks for a live lobster permit, we're going to have to look at that as

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it is on the ground. If it's deep inside a residential district, it looks like the volume is going to be too much. I think we have to look at that on a case-byase basis. I think Mr. Ty again has a unique place here in the Armouth

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and I I don't think that he would have the type of uh adverse effect on the neighborhood. Okay. Given where he is and given the

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easy access to 28 in South Seattle, it's kind of quick in quick out. It's almost like where we have the 99 on Berry A. You're probably no further off 28 than the 99. We'd run down the street for 100 ft. Your case would just take a quick

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left and you're right there. It's the same thing with 99. 99 encroaches upon a uh residential district. We had discussions about 99 when they moved there as well. Uh

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we did approve them. Um so I think if someone were to fashion a motion that the use was exclusive to Mr. Tally that his use runs from Memorial Day to Labor

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Day. Um the 9 to7 uh I mean he's got to go out and fish these things. So I don't even know how he's going to be doing it at 9:00 in the morning. I I know I don't know how

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others feel about the hours of operation if they think that's too much. We can have a discussion upon that. What what's what's people's feelings on the hours of operation? >> Do you think 9 to 7 is reasonable? >> I think it's kind of long.

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>> Yeah, I think it's a little excessive. >> Yeah, >> especially for the residents. If it was in a commercial district, that' be a different volume. >> So, I I don't know >> about a noon to 7. Can we talk Sean at

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all six? >> Well, this is closed right now. Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, give >> Well, he goes to 6:30 right now. I' I wouldn't I wouldn't want to I don't necessarily have the I think

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it's again I think this is a unique business. This really isn't like your normal retail business. People when they buy lobsters, they tend to buy them at at least I always have, you kind of buy them when you're getting ready to eat them. So would would it be fair to say

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that most of your traffic is in the late afternoon? Well, you've been you've been operating 4 to 6:30, so it's kind of self-explanatory, right? That's what your signs. >> There's not 20 people there at a time. They come one one like that. And

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sometimes I sell a lot of lobsters to people that want a patty. So they might come at 8 in the morning, 9 in the morning. They might be having the patty at noon time. I mean, there's not like it it's not a big traffic area. They come in once at Urkquo and they just

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drive around. They go out Navajo, which is on, you know, I'm on a corner lot. So there's never a lot of people. There's more friends of mine over there having fun than there is people coming to get the lobsters and they just drive in and out. They're gone. I mean, some

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people stay there. I give out these little lobsters to their children and stuff and they take a picture and you know, that's the way I do stuff. And so, I mean, there's really never any like a traffic jam or anything. There's more traffic, especially in the morning. There's no traffic until like 2 o'clock. There's no

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traffic because everyone's down the beach. There's no one going down the road. You get more traffic from people cutting from like 28 going the back way to Seagull Beach or they cut down to go to, you know, the area you grew up here, Silver Leaf, and go the other way

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around. And so there's really no no more traffic than you there's less traffic in the morning than there is during the the afternoon definitely. And there's no, like I said, there's more traffic now with them cutting through. There's 100 times more traffic cutting through the back way

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when they're doing this sewer system. So, it's kind of like you in favor of keeping the sewer system going and keeping 28 ripped up. So, we run them by. I'm not I would abstain from that. >> Okay. >> I I'm not going to make a big issue

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about it, but I just wanted to respond a little bit as well. Um, I just I want to again state for the record that this this isn't introducing a new use into the area. This is a use that has been there for a very long time and has not caused a problem. And I think that's

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something significant for all of you to weigh in your considerations. If everything is on a case-by case basis, I absolutely agree with that and you have to take it as they come. And I appreciate your considerations and trying to balance the interests of everybody involved here, which is very important. But I see very little

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evidence of actual detriment which I think is what you're looking for as your standard of how do you condition the use involved here. So you have a use that has been happening without a problem and Mr. Tally is just trying to preserve that use. I think one of the unintended consequences of trying to limit the

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hours to a more compressed time frame of two hours in the afternoon is that put pressure on people to now come within that limited window. And so now you are going to see an uptick in traffic. You're going to see people who know that's where they want to get lobsters. That's the window that they have to get

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there. Now, they're all going to come at that time instead of feeling like they well they can just go when they need to pick up something and then leave. And as John said, he's going to have more traffic from his guests and friends coming to his house than people coming to pick up lobsters at any one time. And

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so the the 20 people visiting may have been his idea. Is that your idea of in a day number of people coming by? Where I live, there's so many people down there that come for the summer. Some of those houses have 15, 20 cars and you I don't have to tell you, Sean, you know,

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>> in one in one lot, you know, they're they're on the road. My people aren't, you know, my people aren't they just in and out back and then the other my friends that come over because my yard's big, they just back over there and then there's no problem, you know, because they're they're on the property.

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>> Okay. Okay. >> Well, if you went by and you saw like say there was five or six cars there packed, those are my friends. That's got nothing to do with the business. >> And so there's just and I think I made this in my initial presentation that there's there's no traffic going out onto the street. Everything with the

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business is able to be contained on the property and that includes consumers coming to the property to purchase lobsters as a consideration. >> And if there's too, you know, if you know, like I take pictures with the kids and I put them on my website and everything. So I mean if someone comes

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behind them I just tell them you have to move along. I you know so they just they just go you know because I have get to the next customer. >> Okay. All right. Thank you. Um All right. So maybe we had a concern with

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the hours. Um of course I I do take the point that if we condense you then we're going to invite increased traffic. I I would totally agree with that. >> I I disagree with Sorry, Chairman. I

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disagree with that. He's been He's He's advertised from 4 to 6:30 for the last >> many many years. It's an expansion of his operation to say he wants it from 9 to No, if if the general public that has been going there for decades, as he

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states, has the understanding that it's from 4 to 6:30, there's zero reason to expand it beyond that other than a a crafty language from council. I I I I couldn't agree with that. I that doesn't make any sense logically to me. >> Okay,

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>> Tan, can I say something? >> Sure. >> That's not true. Who said who said it was from 4 to 6? >> Well, that's what your sign says. >> That's what you advertise. >> That's what it says. But when I sold them before, that was all during the day and stuff. And the other thing is I sold

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more than lobsters from the house. I sold millions of pounds of other fish and stuff in the day. So it's like they come over and pick the fish up at the middle of the night because they're coming from New York, Montreal, Canada.

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Portland, Maine, you know, so that, you know, but I don't do any of that stuff anymore. Mine's just the lobsters. They come over. Say four people come over between 7 and sometimes I'm out fishing. I fish till 11:00, but if I don't go that day, you

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know, some people want to come over and get them earlier. I mean, there's no traffic or anything. I mean, there's really no one around there then, you know, I'm just trying >> maybe the truth. >> Maybe we could reach a compromise on that. I appreciate you your your your

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comments. >> Anybody have any other suggestions for ours if the 9 to 7 is too long? 11 to 6. even more straightforward is to noon to noon to 6.

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>> I I say 11 because some people might wanting the lunch lobster before >> lunch. >> Well, I'll tell you what. I I I think we should allow it to go to seven. And I'll tell you the reason why

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I think we should is because if we're going to allow it, um, and I do plan on supporting this sort, you're going to get the requisite votes of four. You need four out of five, Anthony said, and I respect his opinion

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and uh his thoughts. Um, but as far as cutting it back to six, it is the summertime. You know, people come off the beach a little later. Seven, you know, in June, July, and August is still

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pretty early. All right. I mean, that's I I just think six would be cutting him back and and taking away a lot of his opportunity. I I really think that his 4 to 6:30 window um

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and I think the reason that he does that really is because that's where the bulk of his business is. And he does have other things. I'm not saying someone else wouldn't come over during the day and buy something. >> But I think he probably would have to admit that the later afternoon is when people are going to come by and pick

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these up on a on a volume basis if he's going to have a busy day. Um, so I would suggest that if we're going to not agree on the 9-7 that maybe we could agree on a 11-7

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and it is a it's a seasonal business. I know it's Memorial Day to October 12th weekend. Okay, why don't we say that? >> But it's But John, I'm not going to lie to you. I go till I'm >> Well, we asked you in the beginning what

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you want. >> Yeah, I said to the end of October. >> Okay. Yeah. I mean, I I could do the end of October, but it's realistic. >> That's when I'm winding down catching lobsters and I'm bringing in the traps and I really then I really don't have any any people coming really, >> you know, but I want to get rid of the

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lobsters. So, >> yeah. I mean, I I I think at that point, your volume is going to be dimminimous to the extent that it's really not going to have any type of adverse impact on the neighborhood at all. Really, what we're looking here is is Memorial Day

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through Labor Day. That's when you're really going to crank it. You'll do business in September. You'll do it up to October 12th weekend, especially on the weekends you will. >> Okay? And a lot of people do know you're there because you've been there for a while. Okay? So,

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I would suggest that we allow him to go to seven. I think that's >> seven days a week. >> I mean, the weekend's got to be busier than during the week. >> Yeah, it it probably is, but in in the middle of the summer, every day is the weekend, >> you know. True.

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>> Maybe for you. >> I mean, it is. Well, yeah, but you know, people are down on vacation, so you know, they're gonna >> A lot of people come down just for the weekends. >> Yeah. Well, and that's true. Yeah. So, could we agree on an 11 to 7? Do you

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think >> I can do that? >> So, could the board support a special permit granted to the petitioner that's personal to him that expires upon his personal

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discontinuence of the use? That doesn't mean someone else can't come in after you sell the property or something or ask for a special permit >> retirement. >> Okay. Yeah. I mean, if if you >> if you leased your house out >> and someone wanted to do this, they

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could come in. Okay. That doesn't mean I'm we're just saying that this would expire when this particular special permit would lapse upon you personally discontinuing the use. >> Right. >> Okay.

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Um, we allow it to from Memorial Day to the end of October, we allow him 7 days use from 11 to 7. Um, I would say in a lot of these

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circumstances, we might ask for a one-year review, but I mean, he's been operating. I don't I'm not aware of anybody calling the police, any real complaints,

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and I do know that Mr. Tally has been operating there for a number of years. So, it's not that I'm not familiar with what you've been doing. Um, and just so everybody knows, I'm not the enforcement part of the zoning bylaw.

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I'm only interpret that's the building department. So I would have nothing to do with enforcement actions. So it's not for me to say one way or the other. I I'm fair and I only have consider what's in front of us. Uh

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but those are my thoughts. Uh is there anything anybody we we think we had to add or is that a sufficient motion? >> Uh sufficient for me. John >> Anthony, excuse me, Anthony. I strike that. I was I was gonna ask Barbara

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where >> Barbara. >> Okay. Well, I I that's those are my thoughts and that that's what I could support. So, if there is a uh is someone prepared to make a motion to approve the special permit on those conditions?

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>> So moved. >> We have a second to the motion. >> Second. >> Any further discussion on the motion? Anthony, any further thoughts you'd like to add? >> Uh, no. I think I I think I made my thoughts uh clear.

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>> Like I said, I want Mr. Tully to uh to perform and succeed, but I don't think it's at this property. It's not something I can support. and and and the board's very respectful of your opinion, Anthony, and and we

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always uh we always invite it and uh your thoughts are always well taken. Okay. So, if there's no further discussion on the motion, we're going to move the question. Barbara, how do you vote? >> I. >> John, >> I. >> Dick. >> I. >> Anthony.

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>> Nay. >> Nay. And I'm an eye. It's four in favor, one against. The special permit is granted. >> Thank you. Now, as council, I don't have to explain to you, but for Mr. Ty's purposes, once the decision is drafted, it will be

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filed with the town clerk. 20 days must elapse. That's a technical appeal period. After that uh time frame has gone by, Dolores will contact you. Uh you need to come get the special permit, take it over to the registry of deeds and record it, and then bring a copy

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back for our records. >> Any questions? >> Best of luck. >> Thank you. I appreciate Thank you very much. >> Somebody go buy some lost. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. We appreciate your input.

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>> Thank you. Have a nice night. >> Okay, we have one more. Give me one second here. >> Yeah. Yeah, of course you can. I don't know where you disappear. I just constantly disappear. >> Disappear. >> There you go. People must look at this

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and go, "What is with this guy? He loses his agenda all the time." I apologize, everybody. >> All right. The next matter on our agenda is petition 5232. That's Jennifer Wallace doing business as Cororu Therapies. The propertyy's

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located at 21 Aelia Lane, South Yarmouth, Mass. It's in an R40 zoning district and the applicant seeks a special permit per section 202.5 footnote 12 for an 08 use and/or a

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variance from section 202.5 subsection 12 to operate a smallcale wellness business in the home. The applicant requests a waiver from the requirement for a certified siteplot plan less than two years old.

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I believe we have uh the petitioner on Zoom. Is that correct? >> Uh yes, Mr. Chairman, for the technician, the initial J. >> Okay. Good evening, Jennifer. Can you hear me?

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>> I can, Mr. Chairman. Can you hear me? >> I can. Could you identify yourself for the record, please? >> Sure. I'm Jennifer Wallace at 21 Aelia Lane in Yarmouth doing business as Koru Therapies.

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>> Okay. Um, go ahead and tell us what uh what you're planning on doing. >> Sure. And thanks for having me here and accommodating me um on Zoom. Um, and if at any point you can't hear me, then

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just please let me know. >> Okay, we can hear you fine. Go right ahead. >> Okay. >> So, yeah, I've lived year round in South Yarmouth for four years. I purchased a small 1950s threebedroom Cape style home

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in 2022. I have a good rapport with the neighbors. I've improved my home and the property since moving in. Um, and so that's just a little background on my personal self. Um, my business,

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I've owned that since 2013. I started with, um, the art and sciences, massage therapy, and body work. Um, I'm currently licensed in several countries and states, including Massachusetts. In 2015, I became certified as a birth

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doula. If you don't know what that is, I can assist women and their birth partners in pregnancy, labor, delivery, postpartum care. Um, in 2017, I completed 400 hours of aromatherapy training. Um, so I'm a certified

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essential oil specialist, and I use that to create custom products for clients. I'm also a certified yoga teacher. I have a lot of other experience in acupressure, reflexology, energy work, prenatal, postpartum care. I've taught

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university courses and wellness custom workshops for individuals from you know one one person to 120 people um at different locations. So that's just a little bit about what the business is.

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Um so to tell you why I'm presenting this tonight. Um, I recently met with Dolores Fallon and the building commissioner, I think it's Mark Grills, um, to see if it'd be possible to have

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clients at my owner occupied property. And we co-created the proposal in front of you um, specifically, I'm asking for a special permit under zoning bylaw 103.2 2

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um for relief under 2025 8 footnote 12 and it's on page 23 of the bylaws which you guys probably know but I will briefly read like 10 sentences of it or 10 words. It says

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um allowing an accessory use in a dwelling provided that it is the principal residence of the person utilizing the space. So that's what I'm asking um for relief under. Um as an alternative, I'm requesting a variance,

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but I'd like to start with my request for the special permit. And if I get that, which would be excellent and life-changing, I will withdraw the application for a variance. Um documents I've submitted that that I

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hope you have with you or somewhere nearby. You should have a floor plan of the house. Um, photos of the available parking. There's four spots available. Um, you should have a site plan of the

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property based off the past septic installation, and that's still very similar to what it is today. Um, and I want to tell you what I envision the use to be to give you an idea of

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what I'm thinking. Um, this is what I envision. I envision um, individual clients and small groups coming to my home for professional services.

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Generally, I would work on oneonone. I would work one-on-one with individual individuals. Um, but I'm requesting flexibility for small groups like supporting nursing mothers,

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for example. Um, my use is quiet. It's by appointment only. I'll have no sign, no employees. I don't need any exterior modifications to the home. I don't expect it to have any impact at all on the neighborhood.

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um which I love and value and I'm really happy to have found this little spot. Um I know one a butter has provided a letter of support for the proposal which I hope you have in front of you and I

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think it says probably something similar to what I've just said. Um, and uh, I think the only other thing to add right now before we talk about it is um, I'm aware of one other individual

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who was granted a special permit for something very similar. Her name's Linda Preston. She operates Cape Cod Body and Soul out of her home at 16 Sunset Pines. And I have that petition number if you need it. Um she's in I I'm fairly

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certain the same zoning district that I'm in. >> We're familiar We're familiar with her special permit. >> Okay. Excellent. Um so essentially I'm asking for something extremely similar that is low impact

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and um shouldn't and wouldn't cause substantial harm to the established or future character of the neighborhood or town. Um, so that's that's the

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that's the bill. That's the proposal and then I'm obviously open to questions and discussion and comments as needed. Hopefully that's a good starting point. >> Okay. Thank you.

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>> Anthony, do you have any questions for the petitioner? >> Uh, only one. What are the requested hours? uh requested hours. Um that's a great question and certainly up for discussion. I can tell you what's been

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best for the business in the past. Um I tend to work with evening clients um outside of you know after standard work hours. So the evening is the most important which I would define as

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>> say 5:30 to even 9 uh maybe 10 even depending on how long something is. And then the starting point is anything the town's willing to give me. But I think a 10:00 a.m. client is a very reasonable

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starting time. Um but essentially whatever is uh you know approved or allowed I can work with then but I believe 10 to about 9 or 10 would be that's my historic use.

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Um a lot of people do this even after the kids go to bed. They're like oh everyone's asleep I can go and be worked on. it's actually not offered um time and it works really great for new parents.

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>> Um I don't have any further questions. Um I'll save my comments until deliberation. >> Okay. Thank you, Anthony. >> Thank you. >> Barbara, do you have questions for the petitioner? Um,

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how do you how do you advertise your services? >> Uh, word of mouth right now. That's what I'm doing. And that's worked really well here. Um, because it is a small community. Um, and

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that's what I would do for at least the time being. >> Okay. And on average, how many how many customers would you see during a week? >> Yeah. And that's another great question. I'll do the best I can. Obviously, it's going to change. >> Yeah.

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>> Say week to week, month to month. Um, uh, let's imagine a small group of nursing mothers and there's three. So, maybe they would be here at the same time on a particular day, probably for a couple hours to get settled in, perhaps

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with a newborn or uh before the birth has happened. Um, so that might be three people for a couple hours at the same time though. Then maybe I would have a client for two hours after that. That's four. And then a long day would be

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another person. So that would be five could be one. Not high volume. >> Okay. >> I hope that answered. >> Yeah. >> I just wanted to get some idea what the volume of >> cars would be in your neighborhood.

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>> Yeah. Low volume. And the uh the one-on-one work would be one car at a time, but a small group would be several cars at a time limited by the parking of four spots.

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>> Yep. Thank you. >> Yeah. Thank you. >> Anything else, Barbara? >> No, >> John. >> Um, couple questions. So, um, let's go back to the small group. So, you say that could be three. Could it be more than that?

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>> It's limited by my space, right? So I think the most for example a um uh a birthing mother and her birth partner

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might come over and we would do some like prenatal workshop type things. Sometimes that's nice to do with other birthing parents. So, in that case, you might have two cars, four people. Um, I don't

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think I I don't have a space big enough if you look at the floor plan to host more than like six would be a full house. I I don't >> Right. That Well, that's So, that's what I'm getting at. How many cars are you going to realistically fit in your fourc car driveway? So, you have a car, I'm

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assuming. So, that's going to take one spot. So, now it leaves you with three, >> right? >> So, okay. So the the most you could add was additional three cars, correct? >> Yeah. Okay. >> Potentially with more than one person in the car, like a couple coming together. >> Gotcha. All right.

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>> So I don't envision three cars filled with uh 10 people each. >> Right. >> So are you conducting these services right now? >> Uh very minorly. >> Where where are you where are you performing that the services now in the

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in the house now? >> No. Nope. I do out calls. I can do out calls. Um but I just I haven't found the right space to do it and it's cost prohibitive to

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uh rent anything around here um for the volume I'm doing. Um so I'm at a kind of a full stop with looking at how I can operate the business.

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um effectively and still um you know cost-effectively I think is the phrase I want to be saying. >> Okay. Um just one more question. So you you're requesting hours roughly from 10:00 a.m. to 1000 p.m. 12 hours. How

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many days of the week would that be? Is that seven days a week? >> I think for permission purposes, yes. But I wouldn't be operating 10 to 10 7 days a week. Um, but I don't know if an appointment would be on a Tuesday or a

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Saturday. Uh, ideally I'd be able to choose the days for uh appointments based on when people want them. Um, but I wouldn't be working 12 hours a day, seven days a week. I can

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tell you that. But of course, if the town needs to, you know, limit that for some reason, then I'm open to that. But ideally, I'd be able to work any day of the week between, you know, say 10:00 a.m. to 10

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p.m. or whatever we agree to. >> Okay. Uh, thank you. Thank you, Mr. >> Okay. Dick, you have questions? So, the uh uh wellness center or whatever will be in the so-called home office there in

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the house. >> Oh, you're looking at the site plan or the floor plan. >> Yep. >> Um you'll see there's a bedroom one towards the front of the house. >> Yeah. >> And there's a bedroom two towards the

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back of the house. >> Yeah. Um, so it would be in right it'd be in bedroom two. Uh, I'd prefer not to limit it to say bedroom two in case for some reason I switch it to bedroom one

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someday, but uh it'd be in either bedroom one or two. >> It's a small. >> And you you said your driveway accommodates four cars because it doesn't look that way. Looks like just two cars. You can get four cars there >> if you if you pull in further. You mean

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I guess? Yep. >> There's space for it. >> Uh, okay. I don't think I have any other questions. I'm a little concerned about parking on the street for long periods of time.

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And uh yeah, and I guess we had this problem with the last one. And this is not a whole lot different, but I don't know about uh and I know some towns like I know Dennis

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has a home occupation. You you'd be much better off in Dennis, I guess. Um but but we don't. And uh so I'm a little little concerned, you know, of creeping businesses in residential areas.

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Although I should have said that last time, I guess. Anyways, uh I don't have anything else at this point. >> Okay. Thank you. I have some questions. What specific services are you offering here?

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>> Okay. >> Out of the home. >> Yep. >> I'd like to offer uh massage. >> Massage therapy. >> Massage therapy. Yep. Um body work. Acupuncture. Sorry. acupressure, reflexology,

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um small group wellness oriented um clinics, workshops. Um >> let me let me stop you here with workshops. >> How many people are in a workshop? >> Yeah, and it can vary. We I

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>> the maximum people that you would have three and six is a lot. >> Three and six. Okay. And what are the other services? Go ahead. Your other services are >> um my other services I think it's I think I listed them all.

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>> Okay. All right. >> And how long how long have you been doing this? >> I've had the business since 2013. >> And where have you been operating this business? >> I started it in New Zealand and then I moved to California.

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>> How long have you been operating this business in the state of Massachusetts? It's um it's a little complicated to answer that because different modalities have you know been added at different times. >> Are you a registered DB?

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>> Been registered in it's been registered in Massachusetts since I moved here in 2016. >> Okay. And what's the address of the DBA with the state? >> It's my address here in Yarmouth. >> How long have you had that DBA?

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DBA would have been established first in California and then >> I know how long I'm not asking about California. I asked you about Massachusetts. How long have you had a Massachusetts DBA listed at your present address? >> Oh, okay. Um,

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it was started in Massachusetts 2016. It moved here when I moved here in 2022. >> So, you've been operating out of Ailia Lane since 2016. Is that what you're telling us? >> The office like I have a

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>> yes or a no. Ma'am, I need you to give me direct answers. Not California, not when I moved here in 2022. Okay. So, could I just ask you >> direct questions and you can give me direct answers. Okay. >> Certainly, I will do my best.

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>> Okay. So, you've had a DBA listed at 20 Ailia Lane in South Yarmouth since 2016. Is that correct? >> I have a No, that's not correct. >> Okay. Well, tell me then that that was my question.

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>> Well, 21 is Alia Lane and it was 2022. >> So, you've been operating here for four years. >> The the business, yes, has been open for four years. That's all I wanted to know. Okay. All right. And

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how much what do you report for gross sales? How much is your how much does the average person pay you? >> Uh nothing at the moment since I'm not having clients. >> Well, you've been operating since 2022 at this address. Correct.

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>> Side business. I first came here as a scientist out of Woods Hole. What is your gross yearly sales with the Massachusetts to for your state taxes >> for Coryu therapies? >> Yep.

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>> Nothing. Zero until I know how to operate it in Yarmas. >> So, you haven't filed a tax return in this matter? >> I have filed a tax return showing no income >> since you started the DBA

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>> at 21 Aelia Lane. Yes. And that was in 2022, >> right? >> Have you been seeing clients at that address since 2022? >> No. >> No one? >> Nope. Cuz I can't.

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>> Okay. So, but the office has been here. That's all. Like like a computer. >> The office. So, you've been operating an office.

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>> I have an office here that is approved by the town to be able to um you know maintain the business, keep it open, but I'm not operating. But I still need to do >> the town gave you permission to operate

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an office out of your home. >> Yeah. Via a home occupation permit. It's a right. from the town. >> Okay. And and how long have you had that license? >> Since I moved here in 2022.

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>> Okay. This says home office only. Okay. I see that in front of me. February 14th, 2022. I have that. All right. And so now you're here to uh and and how

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much are you going to charge for these services? unknown and it would vary on the service. >> Okay. >> I mean the question is right now if I can >> you say these services um will be either

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one onone to up to six people. Is that correct? >> A small group would max out at six people. >> Okay. >> Most often it would be oneon-one. And your hours of operation that you're seeking is 10:00 a.m. to 1000 p.m. And

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that's 7 days a week. Is that correct? >> That's ideal. >> Is that what you're asking for, ma'am? >> That's what I'm asking for. Yes. >> Thank you. Okay. Mhm. And you might see how many clients in a

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day? I think five is a I think about five. >> How did you come up with that number? >> Uh if I have one small group of three, of course, um like I was explaining, it might change dayto day, but one small

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group of three that are here for a couple hours and then another one-on-one client that's here for a couple hours and then another one-on-one client for a couple hours. And how long are you are you licensed to to operate as all of

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these different businesses and do they require licenses? >> Um, it's a great question. It's a complicated answer. The uh the ones that require lure in Massachusetts that I operate are licensed and I'm highly

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certified and >> those and those are ma'am >> those are massage for example. >> Okay. So, you're a licensed massage therapist? >> Yes, with the state. >> What else are you licensed for?

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>> A romapy, yoga, birth doula. Um, >> and how long how long have you been doing those particular professions? >> Massage since 2013. Um, >> and what do you charge for massage

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therapy? Uh, it will depend on what service you offer. It could be $100 an hour. It could be more. It could be less. >> Okay. >> Have you ever operated at Aelia Lane and

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charged anybody for a service? >> No. >> Where did you operate before this? You you've been living here in Massachusetts. Have you done any other jobs other than this type of work?

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Uh yes, I moved here and worked with Noah out of Woods Hole. That was why I came here. Um before that, I lived in central Mass. I was also working with Noah then.

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And before that, I was in Western Mass and um was a stayathome mom. Do you have children right now? >> Do you have any who how many people live in your home?

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>> Just me. >> Okay. No one else? >> Nope. >> Okay, that's all I have right now. Is there anything you'd like to add, ma'am? No. If there's any other questions or

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clarifications, then I'm happy to um add them or answer them. Um and I completely understand that my ask can be adapted and changed and I'm just grateful for any consideration and any

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way to maintain a living throughout the year um in Cape Cod. I see. So, um, and and you haven't considered doing this at a in a commercial setting, in a commercial district.

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>> What I do is to It's very unique and places that um there's nothing around here that can do what I do. It's very unique. I need a certain kind of space and um

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>> massage therapist. You couldn't do that in a a commercial space with other massage therapists and >> not not what I do. It's uh I call it custom integrative

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body work and it's really incorporating 10 to 15 different styles of work into a customizable session and I need a lot of material for that and I need a certain space and I need a certain um

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like kind of control over the environment rather than comingings and goings that you would have in a more standard massage. massage clinic. >> Okay. Does the board have any other questions for the petitioner?

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>> We're going to go to the audience. Is there anyone in the audience who wishes to speak in favor of this petition? If so, please come to the microphone. If there's anyone in the audience that wishes to speak in opposition to this petition, please come to the microphone. >> Excuse me, Mr. Chairman. And I think

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there is a letter of support. >> Uh I'll take a look at my packet in just a moment. >> Thanks. Sorry. >> Seeing none, does anybody have their hand raised? >> Uh no, Mr. Chairman. >> I have a letter dated May 11th, 2026

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from Wendy O'Keefe to whom it may concern. I live across the street from Jennifer Wallace and received a card from the town regarding her proposal to the town. She's always been a respectful neighbor who has built community between neighbors and improved her property in

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the four years she's lived here. I don't think her proposal will adversely impact myself or the neighborhood in any way. In fact, I don't think her proposal of activities will be noticeable. We cannot attend the meeting. So I am sending this in support of Jennifer in lie of

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attendance. Thank you Wendy O'Keefe from 35 Wild Rose Terrace. So we have that. We'll put that into the record. All right. So uh anything else you'd like to add, ma'am, before we close the uh hearing to

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the public and begin board deliberations? >> Um nope, not at this time. >> Okay. Thank you. All right. Um, Anthony, what are your thoughts?

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Um given that there would be no signage and all of the transaction all of the business related uh concerns are inside of a a property

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oneonone or one on four which you can have guests are um I Well, I I think this unlike the prior uh you know, we I know we take them one by one. Um but I think this meets the

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the definition of of what we could apply a spe special permit for. I I don't think it's a variance. I think it's a special permit, but um I would be in favor of granting it with some of the conditions we've discussed.

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Okay. And Dick, what are your thoughts? >> You know, I'm mixed emotions. What else is new? Um, yeah, you know, it seems like it's a little intensive. If it was just the massage therapy and there was never more

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than one person there at a time um and so forth, I'd feel a lot more comfortable than groups of six with up to six cars and and uh and into the uh well into the evening hours. Uh those

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things bother me some. I I guess at this point I still haven't decided, but uh I uh I would also kind of concur with what Sean was saying. There's a lot of space out there and commercial space including a lot of you know massage therapists and

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nail salons and all that type of thing and in in available space in Yarmouth and the last I knew it was pretty cheap. Um, so I'd much rather see this kind of business there than than in a

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residential district, uh, you know, accessible only by a long dead end road. Uh, so at this point, I'm still thinking. >> John, >> um, couple the 10 a.m. to 10 p.m.

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concerns me. Again, in a residential area, cars come and go, you know, I mean, people like to wind down at point or the neighborhood. So that that's a problem for me, those hours. Um, and there's a lot there is a lot going

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on here. A lot of specific services. Uh, I don't know anything about any of them to be honest with you, but uh, seems like there's an awful lot of activity going on there. So, um, I don't know. I don't know. It seems like, uh, something

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that should be more in a commercial area than as than a residential home out of one bedroom. But that's just my thought. >> Okay, Barbara.

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>> Um I think what I'm going back to is um at one point we had a petition in front of us. Someone wanted to do um you know psychotherapy out of their home. It wasn't too far back and we denied that.

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Um, I mean, that was a situation that, you know, there'd be one car there. Um, so I don't think I'm in support of this. >> Well, I'm going to give you my thoughts

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and uh I I too have concerns about the hours of operation. I'm not quite sure exactly what type of a business is going to be operating here. I don't think uh with all due respect to the petitioner that

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it was explained to me exactly what would be going on at exactly what time and how many people would be here. I'm hearing different numbers. Uh she's been in these businesses for a long time. She's had a DBA operating since 2022

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with this address. Um, so I I don't know what she's doing as far as an office business right now, but I'm very concerned when I hear the term small groups up to six people. Um,

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you know, 10:00 a.m. to 1000 p.m. and sometimes 10:00 p.m. at night is the best time to have people over at my house. Well, if you're operating a business in the middle of a residential district at 10:00 p.m. at night, I have some very many many concerns with that.

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Um, I I just I I I really haven't heard a clear explanation as to what is going to be going on there. But it's one thing to have a oneonone like a massage

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therapist. Uh, our petitioner referenced Sunset Pines. I sat on that petition. Sunset Pines is a street that's right off station. You pull down there and you go right into her yard. She works alone. She sees

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oneon-one. She explained to us how many people that she would see in a particular day and her hours of operation. Uh, she would have no more than one car in her yard at a time. It's inside. It's enclosed. It's quiet. It's not going to

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make any noise. When when you're talking about bringing a number of people over and people that are getting ready to give birth and their partners and running group sessions and things like that, I just think that's way too much of a potential

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use for this type of activity in a commercial district. And so what I have heard thus far is I don't think she meets the criteria of the bylaw for special permits. So I would not be in favor of this particular

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spec uh request for >> Mr. Chairman when it's appropriate. Can I please talk? >> Um I'll give you a moment. Um but it is closed right now. I will hear from you briefly, but I would suggest to you

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right now that in order for you to succeed for special permit, you need four out of five votes in favor. Right now, I'm hearing that you may have one and you have four that are not in favor.

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>> Am I allowed to respond >> briefly? >> Okay, thank you. And um my uh I I'm like I said, I'm happy to adjust. I told you what would work best and I'm

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willing to adjust. So, it sounds to me like groups are a problem. So, we can take away groups. It would just be one-on-one people. Um we can just uh like what happened with

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um the petition you worked with, Mr. Chairman. Um she had specific hours. she had a restriction of no more than one car. I'm happy to I'd be thrilled with exactly what was given to her. Um, and

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as far as the uh it sounds like there's a lot of activity going on. Those are all options based on, you know, 20 years of different trainings I've done. One person, it's just one person being worked on at a time with whatever

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service um they need. It's not that 20 things are happening at the same time. Um, and I think the other big concern was the hours. And so I think similar to the

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lobster proposal just a minute ago, um limiting and adjusting and working through a reasonable solution to that is more um encouraging of small businesses and local

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yearround residents rather than restrictive. um operating in town is prohibitively expensive for the lifestyle I lead and um the spaces that are available aren't

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appropriate and aren't um they simply aren't in my price point. Um so the business has remained open here like I've I've the business exists but it can't operate here um without

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this permission. So, um, >> well, I I I I certainly appreciate everything you're saying. I'll just give you my point of view. I think what you should do is I would suggest that you may want to consider

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withdrawing your petition without prejudice or requesting it. I think the board might be inclined to go along with that. I think I would suggest that you regroup and come back with another proposal

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that is more definitive because I don't think you had answers to a lot of our questions. Even when they were asked directly to you on a num a number of times, you still didn't answer them. Now, we can't create your business for

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you. That's that's what you do. You come in and you present a petition to us. We're willing to work with you a little bit, but we can't say, "Well, we're going to allow you to have one person, one car, hours of operation." I just I really don't know what services you're

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operating there. I don't even know if these services may be subject to board of health review when you're talking about bringing in expectant mothers and things like that. I don't know. Are these medical services that you're offering? I don't know. I don't even need an answer to it. Right.

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>> But what I'm saying is is you came in with a popery. I didn't hear a lot of definitive answers from you. I'm hearing up to six people. I'm hearing a number of cars. I'm hearing a lot of hours. This is in the middle of a residential

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neighborhood. This is different from the petition with the lobsters that was more definitive. We knew what was going on. There was a history here. So, and the massage therapist again that was a whole different situation. You

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know, you tell us that a a commercial office wouldn't work given what you do. I I mean, if you're doing massage therapy, I would think you have a massage therapist

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table and you're operating in a room the size of a small bedroom. And uh that's massage therapy that can certainly be done, you know, with limited commercial use. I

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mean, in a limited commercial space, I don't know why it wouldn't work for you. Now, maybe it is cost prohibitive. maybe we might consider something. But what you proposed tonight, I just don't I have a lot of concerns with what you're

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proposing and I I didn't get definitive answers that would give me confidence one way or the other to support this. So, and I won't speak for the other members, but I think I'm I'm hearing

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that from them as well. Uh so again it it it might be my suggestion >> that you kind of regroup. You can always come back. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Um but if we take if we take a vote tonight

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>> and you're not successful, you can't come back for two years on a like petition. >> May I speak please? >> Sure. >> Thank you. Is it possible to consider um

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a much simpler proposal which still lets me do something which is um just massage which I'm certainly certified in and one person at a time under whatever hours

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you allow and um I think those were all the issues you had uh or not issues but the things that were brought up. Is it possible to consider that briefly and see if that changes people's uh

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opinions? People seem to understand what the definition of massage is. >> So, what you're proposing then is >> what you're asking then is for the board to consider that you operate only massage therapy in your home.

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>> Yep. >> One onone. >> Yes. during certain hours of the day and that would be it. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> And whatever. Yeah. Yes. >> Okay. Well, I'll tell you what.

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>> We're going to put we're going to put that out. We're going to have a discussion about that right now. >> Thank you very much. >> Okay. So, let's talk about that. So, the petitioner is suggesting that she have one-on-one massage therapy, which I

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would concede as a quiet activity. Uh, I think minimum disruption if any to a neighborhood. If it's oneonone, that's somebody coming over at a reasonable hour of the day. we could

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talk about some hours and uh we would grant her a special permit for that. What uh what do you think about that idea, Dick? >> Yeah, I I could be comfortable with that. It was just massage therapy

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limited to no more than one client at any one time uh between the hours of 9:00 a.m. and 7:00 p.m., something like that. Okay. 9:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. How many

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days a week? >> Six days a week. >> Six days a week. Monday through Saturday. >> Yep. >> Okay. One person at a time. >> Yep. >> Okay. Um, Barbara, how do you feel about that?

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>> Um, I think those are good suggestions. I think what me got me very concerned is when you started talking about um being a doula. Um, >> so is that that I'd like that to be completely off.

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>> That the this this is all we would be granted right here. This would be very narrow. >> A whole other can of worms. >> We're not we're not going down that road. This is all that we would be considering. >> Just as long as that's clear. >> So you think we could go with that? >> Yeah.

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>> Okay. What do you think, John? >> Yeah, I think that's reasonable. Okay, Anthony, you could support that. >> Yeah, I think I think that's reasonable. What are the hours where >> we were talking 9 a.m. to 700 p.m.

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>> 6 days a week, Monday through Saturday. >> Um, I I mean, if that's acceptable to the applicant, that that's fine. I would be I would consider going a little later

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than that. And what I was going to say, two things. The health department weighed in and sent it to Dolores and said that it's a state issue. It's not a local health department issue for massage therapy. And I'll say I represent a handful of

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similarly situated businesses. Uh um and they do have later hours in in the home occupancy uh home occupation uh spaces. They do tend to have a little bit later hours for the exact reason

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that she said of people get off work at 6 and have a massage. I I I don't know if 10's the right hour, but I think seven's a little short. >> How about eight? >> Pardon? >> How about 8:00?

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It's up it's up to the applicant. Uh >> well, we're we're gonna we're going to fashion the hours. Okay. >> Uh that's what we're >> I would be fine I would be fine with eight. I I think >> okay >> that gives three hours three appointments after >> that that that might be that might be a

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good point, you know, because if people get out of work at 5 6:00 I she may not be able to get a you know person in that needs to come later. >> Could we could we do 8:00? You think? >> Sure. Okay. All right. So, why don't we

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do that? Why don't we do 9:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. Monday through Saturday, one person at a time only. That means there's going to be no more than than one car. I mean, if somebody comes over and is with her or something

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and arrives in a second car or something, or if you have somebody that's coming in behind her, we understand. but no three, four cars at a time. That that certainly would not be the intent of the special permit. So,

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you're fine with that one, ma'am? >> Uh, that's very generous and I'm very thankful for that and thanks for considering it. I have a very very small um language suggestion. Um, in the industry the term is massage

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and body work. So if if something's written up, Jennifer may do massage at 21 Aelia, it's more proper to say massage and body work. >> Okay. >> Um, if that's reasonable. For example,

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>> no, no, we we we we can do that. That's okay. >> It's just Okay. Thank you. >> No, no, no. Okay. So, massage and body work. Okay. So, Okay. So, um

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is anybody prepared to make a motion to approve the special permit as requested on these conditions? We are allowing a massage and body work inh home business

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that will be limited to one client at a time. The hours of operation will be 9:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. and that will be Monday through Saturday. >> I think that would be the motion. Did I

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leave anything up? Uh, no. Uh, >> I would keep it. It would run rather than with the land or runs with the person. >> Yep. That should be the case, too. >> Yes. It's personal to the petitioner and does not run with the property. >> Yeah. >> Doesn't mean we wouldn't allow someone

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else if they you sold your property like we say that to everybody. If somebody wants to come in and ask for it, but this this would be personal to you, Jennifer. Okay. >> Yes, I understand. Thank you. So, we'll put that in the uh

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in the decision. >> Yeah. >> Did you get that? >> Mr. Manon has the previous decision. You might want to look at Mr. Shannon. >> Has some conditions here. That you're referring to conditions. >> Yep.

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>> Was the Sunset Pines conditions? Let me just read this. Okay. I think what we're going to do is what I have in front of me is the what we allowed at Sunset Pines. So I think just to

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make things specific, I would suggest to the board that we incorporate the same conditions as we did at Sunset Pines. And these are one through five. That the business use and activity be limited to the first floor of the

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residence only. You only have one floor, correct, ma'am? >> Yeah, >> I do. Yeah. >> Okay. that there will be no business activity conducted in the exterior of the residence. That the petitioner be only be the only

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one to conduct business at the site and that there be no employees of the business at the site. That the petitioner stagger appointments so as to avoid having two client vehicles at the site at any one time.

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And what we did is we had a one-year review, which we do in a lot of uh special premise that we grant, especially if they're granted in a

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residential district. So, why don't we have a one-year review on this? This is just to see if there's any complaints if we have to tweak anything. Um >> along with the other conditions. >> Yes. Along with the other conditions and

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that is that this uh this special special permit is granted to the petitioner personally and when she ceases the use the special permit shall lapse. And of course, we're going to

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>> time frames, >> same uh time frame, 9:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. >> Monday through Saturday. And we will describe it as massage and body work. Okay,

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we get everything. Anthony, are you comfortable with that? >> I'm good with that. >> Okay. All right. All right. So, I think that is the motion. Who is the motion maker? I'm >> not going to repeat all that, but I'll say so moved.

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>> That's all I needed you to do. We've got the We've got second >> seconded by Anthony. Okay. Um I think we've just briefly I think we have allowed these in residential

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districts in the past. I don't think this particular new use uh creates any undue nuisance, hazard or congestion. I don't think there'll be any substantial detriment to the neighborhood. It's quiet. It's inside.

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And so, uh, for those reasons, I think she does meet the criteria for special permit under the bylaw. If there's no further, just anyone else have anything they'd like to add? Hearing none, we're going to take a

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vote. Dick >> I. >> John >> I. >> Barbara >> I. >> Anthony >> I. >> And I'm an I as well. That passes. Five in favor. None opposed. The special permit is granted. Now, Jennifer, what

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happens is, and you may have heard this with discussion with other petitioners, uh once the decision is filed with the town clerk's office, 20 days must elapse. That's a technical appeal period. After that time

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goes by, Dolores, our administrative assistant, will contact you. You need to come pick up your special permit, take it over to the registry of deeds and record it and bring a copy back for our records. >> You have any questions?

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>> Thank you very much. I don't have any questions and I really appreciate. >> We're going to ask you to do one other thing and that's request the withdrawal of the uh your request for variance. We'll we'll with we'll vote on that and allow you to withdraw without prejudice.

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So if you needed to come back, you can, but you don't need that form of relief. >> No, I don't. Do you want me to request that? >> Yes. So we have a request from the petitioner to withdraw her request for

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variance relief without prejudice. >> Do we have a motion? >> I'll move to grant that as requested. >> Okay. Motion made by Anthony. We have a second. >> Second. >> Seconded by Dick. >> Okay. Any discussion hearing? None. Barbara, how do you vote? >> I.

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>> John, >> I. >> Dick. >> I. >> Anthony. >> I. >> And I'm an I as well. So, the request for variance is withdrawn without prejudice. So, we're all set for tonight, Jennifer, and we wish you the best of luck. >> Thank you very much for um your time and

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consideration. I really appreciate it. >> Okay. Thank you very much. You have a nice night. Now, >> you too. >> Uh do we have minutes we need to approve? >> Yes, Mr. chairman from April 23rd. >> April 23rd. We have a motion to approve the minutes of April 23rd.

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>> So moved. >> So moved. >> Second. >> I don't know who came got first there, but so moved. >> Anthony made the motion. Seconded by John. Any discussion hearing? None. All those in

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favor, please signify by saying I. I. Any oppose? We adopt the >> abstain. Obstain because I wasn't there. I >> shouldn't I guess >> I wasn't there without >> I don't always abstain but

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>> I think it's probably a better idea. >> Okay. >> No, that's fine. So that passes four in favor, one abstension. >> The minutes are approved. >> Okay. Do we have a motion to adjurnn? >> Motion to adjurnn. >> Second in favor. Say hi. >> Hi.

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>> Hi. >> Hi.