okay can't let me know when we're all live we're good we're good we're good okay very good good evening welcome to the regularly scheduled meeting of the yarma zoning board of appeals today's date is May 23rd 2024 my name is Sean AO I'm the vice chairman we have four matters on our petition tonight the first matter is petition 5090 sandala Customs are they present currently no they are not then we are going to move on to the second petition our second petition is hello hello hi Steve from sandala how are you he's online I guess oh Steve are you uh zooming in tonight yeah uh I got caught up in this uh something going on with 28 shut down I'm about going to be about five minutes late that's okay tell you what we'll take we'll take the next one and uh we'll catch up with you when you get here okay thank you all right thank you Steve I think waste water is still working on 28 so the waste water all right uh the next petition is petition 5108 peine Dawkins property's located at 258 Higgins coll Road in West Jou they're in an R40 zoning District as well as the APD the applicant seeks to reverse the decision of the Building Commissioner Andor a variance section 202.5 to allow an F3 use in the residential zone for commercial delivery truck parking table she's on her way to the table now y thank okay with a microphone y there you go hi good evening good evening tell us who you are and you state your name for the record please my name is sp Dawkins okay and you the petitioner tonight yes okay why don't you tell us a little bit about your weal actually you're here asking us to reverse the decision of the Building Commissioner yes well okay hold on just a minute ma'am let's talk about what the actual violation is here okay oh what you're trying to ever should I say I have in front of me a zoning violation notice uh addressed to pearling Dawkins of 258 Higgins C Road West jth Mass it's dated April 2nd 2024 dear Pauline Dawkins this letter constitutes an official notice of zoning violation town of yarmi building department received a complaint that you are operating a business from your home you lost them oops should I I'm sorry' I need I'm sorry ma'am I need to read this into the record Sean you just you broke out um just before the there appears to be three commercial delivery trucks sorry you went silent oh I see okay there you can hear me now yes okay there appears to be three commercial delivery trucks parked at your residencies your property is listed in the R40 Zone which is a residential Zone this type of use which would be classified in the town of the arm zoning bylaw 202.5 use regulation table as F3 Trucking and warehousing is not allowed in the residential zoning 202.5 application no building or structure shall be erected and no premises shall be used except as set forth in the use regulation schedule or in other sections of this bylaw if the use is not specifically Allowed by right or special permit it shall be considered to be not allowed unless an appeal is taken under Section 102.2 point3 and it is shown Beyond A Reasonable Doubt to be a similar nature and at least no more noxious nor detrimental to the welfare of the neighborhood that specifically allow of use are hereby ordered to Abate Andor correct said violation or seek relief from the zoning court of appeals as Allowed by Massachusetts General Law chapter 48 section 7 and section 15 you are required to respond within seven days of receiving this letter you also have the right to appeal this decision to the zoning board of appeals within 30 days of this letter are required to respond within seven days questions regarding this matter may be directed to this department very truly Brad inkley local inspector Tom barma ma'am that letter was sent to you on April 2nd 2024 did you receive that letter yes I Reed the letter but to be honest I was naive I didn't know a Chu couldn't part there I was helping someone I said it's okay just speak into the microphone what I'm saying I was naive to what's going on I didn't know a chuck could be part there the person said can you park I said yes I have ample space at home but I was naive to all these rules I didn't know anything about it to be honest so I thought I was doing good okay okay are the trucks still parked there right now yes one is Park two of them is Park one on the other side and one at the front two is park there now one at the front and one at the side but the one of the side don't really use it's not being under but you do admit that you are parking those trucks on your property yes I do admit it but I was not I didn't know about the rules and regulation I was naive to it I was telling the lady when I came I said I'm really sorry I didn't know anything that I didn't know it would be a problem I thought I was doing good but helping someone said it's okay to part there but I didn't know I'm being honest I was naive no no no that's that's very we certainly wants you to be and we understand we we hear what you're saying now you have filed an application for us to reverse the decision of the building inspector uh or the local inspector zoning inspector tell us why you think we should do that the only reason is I just I was just trying to help as I said and I didn't know it was a problem for the truck just to be part there but you have to make the decision I didn't know there was a it's a problem okay all right okay um we're going to go to some questions right now do you have anything else you'd like to add at this time ma'am is there anything else you'd like to add not really but I was just trying to help as I said I was naive to all what's going on I didn't know the rule and regulation of the Town Sean Sean she's Al also asking if she doesn't reverse it the variance so we going to do that separately is that how you want to do that or I'm I'm sorry jay there she's also asking for a variance I think if we don't overturn the do you want to do that separately uh yes okay uh right now we're going to address the uh decision of the inspector so uh we're going to go to the questions from the board Jay do you have any questions for the petitioner no I I it's a it's not an allowed use in a residential area so I don't really have any questions um okay how about you Tim you have any questions no it's did with uh Jay that's it's not allowed I think it's been there it's been going on for for quite a while I think yeah it's been what a while like years 20 years W that house there I think it's on the uh if it's the one I'm thinking about I know there's been a truck over there for 20 years no I'm not living there 20 years there was a yeah so but but no I'm Al up not that's it Barbara do you have any questions um no I I drove by the other day and yeah there were two trucks there so it's all I I don't have any questions okay um do have um two letters that we received I will read them into the record um letter from opposition I am writing to oppose the allowance of commercial delivery truck residentials excuse me this is from Linda galow at 14 lavender Lane West J I'm writing to oppose the allowance of commercial delivery truck parking in the residential Zone catch please find photos of the box trucks back and end on lavender Lane transferring cargo this reduces lavender Lane to one lane and creates a dangerous situation for vehicles trying to enter or depart lavender Lane pending completion of the bicycle path extension there will be increased bicycle and pedestrian traffic in the area increasing the risk of do not allow commercial delivery truck parking in our residential neighor that's from excuse me can I in not mine I'm sorry ma'am I'm reading these in the record I'll be right back just one let him read these in first uh the second letter is from David Fox and Wesley Johnson uh 19 lavender Lane West J we are writing to the zoning board to object to the request of petition 5108 from doin at 258 hiin scroll Road seek to reverse variance from 2025 that's section 2025 to allow F3 residential zone for commercial parking existing conditions existing driving conditions have been extremely hazardous in two large Bo truck box trucks are backed up backed up backto back on the corner of lavender Lane while transferring Caro from one truck to another trying to exit our street requires us to go on the opposite side of the road subject ourselves to another vehicle coming around the corner possibly causing a head on collision respectfully asked that the variant request change for pearling dockins be denied for Public Safety cly David Cox and Leslie Johnson uh that's all I have for correspondence is there anyone in the audience that wishes to speak in opposition to this petition if so please come to the micro this one that one right there my name is Mark Digman I live at 264 Higgins CRA Road I'm right next store and the big truck the 26,000 lb gbw is parked right there and like he said the two of them are basically storage and other trucks come and unload them and everything else and sometimes they start the trucks up and run them for two 3 4 hours to charge the batteries trucks have more than one battery and uh yeah I don't it's a residential neighborhood and it's not going to positively affect anybody trying to sell their house it'll the real estate value uh the people that live there I have no problem with them they're very quiet I don't have it's just the trucks I don't know talked to other neighbors they didn't want to come to this meeting but uh none of them were positive things to say about the trucks being there okay thank you is there anyone else that wishes to speak in opposition to this petition none seen seeing none is there anyone who wishes to speak in favor of this petition please come to the microphone seeing none seeing none ma'am is there anything that you would like to add no what's happened is not my Chucks they're not my name I was just trying to help someone yeah I have a question for you are there are those trucks being loaded unow it well they have barrels the empty barrels that's all they put there they go to New York with them 50 gon drums yeah the drums that's what I said it's drums plastic drums just empty drums in the thing I'm being honest with you they're not under my name they're not mine I think it's it's nice that you want to help them but it's not allowed that's the what I was saying I was naive I told the lady I don't remember Fallen yeah I told her sorry I was not to it okay ma'am is there anything else you'd like to add at this time nothing else I just have to accept what you guys said it's just Rule and regulation I'm a humble person I'm always trying to help someone but I didn't know I was doing the wrong thing I'm really sorry that's okay no problem okay we're going to close the meeting to the public open it for board discussion would like to begin a discussion on this matter Jay what are your thoughts on this well I mean it's it's a residential neighborhood it's one of the things we don't want to have in a residential neighborhood so um I I really don't think we can change the I I think what the um Building Commissioner had put in was was proper um it's definitely a violation so I I would definitely uphold that um you know if you don't want to talk I guess we don't want to talk about a variance right now but I would be against that also okay Barbara your thoughts yeah I mean it's it's clearly a violation in a residential Zone um the trucks are huge um so I wouldn't be in support of it at all okay and Tim your thoughts yeah I agree I've uh personally seen trucks backed up to each other I lived down the road from there so and this has been going on for many many years so uh definitely a violation um okay uh I am in agreement with the board as well I think it's a clear violation I think there's a commission by the petitioner I think we heard from uh concerned residents that there is commercial activity going on on the property so it's not just the storing of trucks it seems to commercial activity loading and unloading of commercial trucks uh at the residen so uh I would also support uh upholding the decision of the Building Commissioner in this matter is anybody prepared to make a motion to that effect yeah I'll make a motion to uh uphold the um ruling of the uh Building Commissioner okay do we have a second to that second any further discussion no hearing none all those in favor of all those in favor of upholding the decision of the Building Commissioner please signify by saying I I I any opposed hearing none that carries forward or nothing the decision of the Building Commissioner is upheld we now have a request from variance ma you've requested a variance in this matter could you please tell the board how you qualify and meet the criteria for a variance under the Yon bylaw well know that I know I don't see where I'm qualify but I was naive to it before okay yes for the rules and regulation that you guys just said I within myself I wouldn't be qualified but I thought I could appeal cuz cuz I was naive to all what's going on okay is there anything else you'd like to add not really I can't even think right now because I just I just have to let them know to find a parking space for themsel I don't know if any the neighborhood parking and you don't you don't own those trucks is that correct what did you say do you own those trucks I'm not the owner of the trucks okay all right thank you is there anything else you'd like to add no not yet okay we're going to close the uh that hearing on the variance the public open it up for board discussion anyone prepared to uh discuss this matter or make a motion I I think it's uh I don't think it's worthy of a variance it does cause a nuisance to the neighborhood Etc so to me it's it's something that uh we we can't I can't approve so I'd be glad to make a motion to um uh I can should I make a motion not to approve it or make a motion to approve it you you can to keep it simple you can make a motion to deny the variance if that's your intention I'd like to make a motion to deny the variance request as requested there a second to the motion I'll second it any discussion on the motion I will chime in on this uh in order to meet the criteria for a variance there must be a hardship there is no hardship here to the petitioner because she doesn't even own the trucks so she's allowing a third bodyy the hardship must be owing to circumstances surrounding the shape topography or soil conditions of the property that is not the that is not the case in this and by granting relief uh we cannot degrate from the purpose and intent of the bylaw I think if we were Grant variance in this matter we clearly derating from the purpose intent of the bylaw so I do not believe that the petition meets the criterian for a variance I would recommend the board deny it vote to deny it any further discussion on the motion before we take a vote all those in favor to approve the variance signify by saying I hearing none all those opposed signify by saying nay Nay n that carries zero in favor four against the variance does not car thank you very much man you will uh we will write the decisions and file them with the clerk okay thank you we will tell you though we must tell you though did not get your relief and you are in violation of the zoning as such ma'am as such the town should they choose to enforce this could fine you up to $300 per day for each violation so you can contact the building department if you have any questions but I would suggest to you that you're going to have to remove those trucks from your property right away to avoid any vies sure I will I will let them know what's going on I'm really sorry than very much for coming by yeah you're welcome but I'm so sorry about it no no no no no that's okay no that's okay don't worry about a thing everything's fine yeah all right thank you have a nice night ma'am you too have a nice day thank you all right the next matter is petition 5110 CMP realy trust Murray and Carol Phelps trustees the property location is 301 West jth Road West with mass in an R40 zoning District the applicant seeks a special permit for her 47.5 point2 number three to convert an affordable accessory apartment into a rental accessory apartment are the petitioners present yes good evening how are you tonight folks doing well would you please identify yourselves for the record and address Carol Phelps 301 West Jou Road in West gouth Murray Phelps 301 West garmouth Road thank you and are you the owners of the property yes okay can you uh so you want to convert from an A a affordable to a non-aff accessory apartment correct that's correct and have you uh been renting this as an affordable accessory apartment in the past yes we have we are and if you have you complied with all the regulations we have SP yes we have okay okay and um I tell you what I'm going to do I'm going to is there anything you'd like to add or would you like just the board to ask a questions now it's just an existing apartment that uh one bedroom and um we'd like to have it converted okay and uh we have the square footage on this one I'm looking on the floor plan I don't know we need the Flor you submit a Flor plan with this I know it's it's really a conversion you already have it so I trust that we have that in our file and Dolores may not have uh put that it's not in mind it's uh 646 Square ft Sean there is a floor there is a floor plan in our package um I I got one right in front of me right here that's okay yep um and so is it your intention uh to rent this what on a yearly basis yes yearly we do not do any short term at all okay um I'm going to go to the board see if they have any questions Barbara do you have any questions for the petitioner um no not at this point okay how about you Tim no no that do me Jay I'm just to clarify it's a garage downstairs is that what it is so it's not heated not heated or lived in downstairs and this is a second floor of a garage um used as an apartment pretty much just the top floor yep is the apartment uh no I don't have any other questions Sean that's it okay all right I really don't have any questions um this bylaw is as many of you know are new to us uh so we will probably see many of these come before us in the future so you I think are only the second one that we've seen thus far mhm uh uh but we definitely need the housing stock so we're glad you're keeping it as as a uh as a rental um I'm going to go to is there anyone in the audience that wishes to speak in opposition to this petition please come to the microphone is there anyone who wishes to speak in favor of this petition please come to the microphone seeing none um do you have anything else you'd like to add this time folks no just it's been nice to have someone on the property okay that's a beautiful looking building you did a nice job with that thank you um well we're going to close the uh we're going to close the petition to the public open it up for board discussion anyone wish to uh begin a discussion or make a motion um now I just as looking through you know what what we have for the new bylaw and the and the coverage it looks to be fully covered I think you have plenty of parking for two additional spaces um and uh you know we do have um the ability to to transfer these over from existing affordable over so um I'm I'm comfortable with with the request and be happy to make a motion to approve the uh approve the petition as requested okay no conditions no conditions all right is there a second of that motion I'll second it bar second a motion any discussion on the motion only thing that I would say is that the petitioner had previously met the conditions under the previous section 407 section and appear to meet the condition under the revised 407 section of the bylaw as such I feel that they meet the criteria for special permit um we'll take a vote all those in favor please signify by saying I I I any opposed hearing none that carries unanimously for to nothing folks there'll be a decision that will be drafted it will then be filed with the town clerk 20 days must elapse that's a technical waiting period after that time you can come and pick up your special permit from our administrative assistant and take it over to the registry of deeds and record it and bring a copy back for our records do you have any questions not no not this time thank you okay thank you very much have a nice night okay thank you uh Sean just so you know cnar realy is here C doar Customs I'm sorry is Steve here yes he is all right we're going to call that one next I think recalling petition 5090 this is a reconsidered petition from March 14th 2024 for sand dollar Customs property location is one Denise Lane South y with mass it's in an our 40 zoning District the applicant seeks a special permit per 104 3.2 subsection 2 Andor variance from section 203.50 of front setback relief to construct a 22x 17 addition on a pre-existing non-conforming structure good evening hey good evening Mr ago how are you very good Steve would you identify yourself for the record yes my name is Steve babola I am a representative from Sand Dollar Customs uh for the owners of one Denise Lane Mr King as Mr aigo described we were looking uh to see if we could get a little bit of relief um on the what would be a front uh setback because the home is on a corner lot on the Sharon Road side of the property um I'm just want to make sure that there the board uh do you guys have a copy a stamp copy of the averaging method that was utilized okay um yes so in the averaging method um I believe we're able to obtain about uh 23 62 or something very similar to that number uh on the Sharon Road side um but the configuration of the 14x 22 uh addition that the homeowners are seeking to add uh would bring us down to I believe 2.76 so we're seeing if we could get the board the gr is just a couple of feet okay um I have a 22 by 17 addition is that what you're asking for CU you said 14 just a minute ago uh it's I believe it is 22 by 17 that's correct okay all right so if we set back average and in this case it's a corner lot just so we're all clear on what we're looking at here we're going to take the average on the Sharon Road side the house to the right of the home on Sharon and the house to the left on Denise so we go around the corner and we set back average that house on Denise on the left hand side which I'm looking at and is 29.3 4 and then we're going to come around the corner and take the house on Sharon Road which is 17.95 now if we add those two together 17.95 plus 29 excuse me 18.95 plus 29.54 get a total of 47.4 n we're going to divide that by two so if we average a setback it comes out to 23.74% [Music] okay so it appears you're still a bit shy on that side okay and what is this room going to be this is going to be a family room so as you know as you can tell by looking at the the size of the home um it's a very small ranch um you know newly purchased by the Kings and is looking to be a future retirement home they have children uh the expansion is you know somewhat modest um we did discuss with them you know the potential of going up um candidly um Mr King said if if we wanted to go up I would have bought a colonial so um and honestly he wasn't completely familiar with uh with the zoning regulations he thought there wouldn't be uh very much of an issue with just expanding the home a little bit um and you know part of this application is that um in looking for a 20.7 6 we figured it would be less detrimental um when you compare the 17t uh plus setback uh at the home next door on Sharon um and so this is just going to be a family room there's going to be no petitions no Plumbing no cooking facilities there is a half bathroom where it attaches to the kitchen side but that's it you have a plan do you have a plan for this CU I don't have one in my packet uh it was supplied in the original packet the complete um there's no floor plan in here it's just a just the uh the layout topographical yeah I mean I have the elevations to show the exterior do we have an interior layout I do not have a copy of the Interior layout with me will you reference there's going to be a half bath too correct that's correct just so you're adding a half bath but within that correct within that squid footage the the main bathroom or the only bathroom in the existing home is down at the other end where the bath uh where the bedrooms are so so with that being a family room it made sense to just have a a vanity in a toilet what are the plans for the shed uh the shed has already been removed removed it's gone that was gone prior to our initial hearing okay okay I'm going to uh go to the uh board for questions um Barbara do you have questions for the petitioner I'm just concerned that it's is such a small lot um you know and it's going to be close to the Sharon roadside um that's my concern okay Jim no I'm not at this moment I'm sorry no questions at this moment okay Jay questions no the biggest issue when we came before us last time was they talked about averaging but we didn't have any documentation for it which was was a problem um this one is now looking for just 3 feet or just a little bit less than 3 feet but the one thing we did talk about last time with the deck which is in the back and I know that was an issue for some of the people on the board at the time um I can I answer to that question all right so I had a sit down with Mark grills um the the rebuilding of that deck was permitted by Tim Sears under article 40 can you tell me what that is Sean I can't remember exactly what it was anyway it was a pre-existing deck and uh mgl allows that uh to be permitted for rebuilt so completely legal yes that that is correct and I I did get clarification from the building department I inquired uh for the record uh I did make inquiry and this matter was under reconsideration because right I think the last time you were here I don't think that there may have been a Mis interpretation uh in the record so we were reviewing this so we wanted to bring you back but it was brought to my attention that that is a grandfather de okay so other than the deck and the fact that we didn't have the documentation about the averaging which is one of the things that we needed um I don't have any questions this looks like it's just requesting three feet beyond the average um so I don't have any other questions okay um well I have a question and why does it have to be 17 ft wide why can't it be stay 14 ft wide which is still a sizable room when you're going 22 length that's a lot of square footage that's over 300 Square ft for a family room that's pretty big why do you need to get come out 17 so um of that 22 feet um five 5 ft of that is a clip corner and that's just simply a Foye entrance at that point that now becomes the primary entrance um so it actually reduces that you know 22 ft uh down to I believe 17 by 14 which if you look at the room uh I'm sorry uh if you look at the room size it's a proportionate room size for a family room especially when you have five people and potentially entertaining when you take the square of 35 square feed out um for the half bathro as well it reduces that family room capacity pretty significantly um and that's basically that overall explanation it' be nice if we had a uh a floor plan just so we could see what's you do have a uh you know what's basically u a small foyer right now what is be nice to know what this was used as and whether that could be cut down by a few Fe to make room for this because that's basically just kind of an open space mhm is that an option well that was the that was the whole ATT tent was that so it would be a nice large open space uh because the home itself is actually so small I mean in the uh the little bump out right now that's what what is that being used for porch um when you be used for when you the little bump out what do you I on the uh what do the actually side entrance right now that little that little bump out to the that's just like it's a roofed porch what's that going to be used as in the future that's just going to remain a porch so that's all they have so that could actually be reduced if it's just a porch correct that little that bump out on the house there's house behind it too well it it currently has a roof line over it this is the part's talking about no I'm talk oh I'm talking about the main building itself so what's what what is right behind the porch That's is there a room right behind the porch that is the uh door entrance to the home which is furthest to the right if you're standing on the Denise lane side you have an entrance door at that right corner directly when you swing that door open you're looking at the door for the basement stairwell which goes straight down toward the backyard directly to the left if you just stepped inside the door entrance and you turn to the left is your dining room table and your kitchen so they using that bump out part of the building this part is that their kitchen somewhere there really is there really is it's hard to tell because we don't have a floor plan so um whether or not you need 3 feet when that's depending on what that what that room is being used for that could be reduced to make up for this going to be clear that you're speaking about this area right here this area back here not the porch yeah this area here right so that's the kitchen that is the kitchen that's the kitchen okay thank you it's a very small it's a very small ranch very mod yeah look just a floor plan would would have helped significantly understood and um you know you have a the thing is you have an elevation plan and the floor layout was part of the overall packet with the elevation so I'm not certain how that piece of paper didn't make it into the Jay can you open that big folder that you have front you can you see if it's in there which which one is this this is 590 which should probably be the first one that you're looking at on the top okay all right kind of logically bear with me for a second okay so my secretary must be watching sent us well we're gonna we're going to need to have that sent we're not going to be able to look at that on a phone okay we need a copy I um there's nothing in the folder right now Sean it's a Flor Ste I think what we're going to need is we're going to need to see a set of floor plans if you have a set of floor plans that are drawn is that what you shown on the board yeah most certainly if there were a method I could print it out right now and well we don't seem to have that in any of our packets nor do we have it in the uh Master folder so uh it was you know it was certainly one of the papers that was provided to the building department in order to get kicked over here so doesn't work out where it would have gone doesn't they don't pass everything over so that's I guess that's the problem they well actually they do um so let's uh what why don't we talk about the relief before we talk about the floor plan let's presume for purposes of discussion that we all agree with the floor plan there you go is is everybody hi I'll put dick in this in the seat in just a second who's this who's this there you go I'll bring you your package oh it's dick dick joining us yes come on in dick nice to have you how are you okay never many technical problems that's quite all right dick quite all right um so getting back to let's just say for purposes of uh discussion that uh we all agree on the floor plan do we all agree with the relief that's requested as far as the technical glitch I'm sorry we need to come back to the board here could you mute your microphone for a second can you mute for a [Music] minute yeah right it's mut I can still hear you that's not muted go back on this one it's not muted dick just so you know he can't hear us we're probably muted okay um so before we before we request the floor plan let's talk about the relief that's requested which is really the issue here I think yeah I think Sean I I believe they're kind of requesting close to three feet um beyond what would be the averaging request and uh that's three feet beyond the setback average that's cor yes yes and you know with the with the way the street runs and the neighborhood um I'm actually comfortable with that request the extra three feet so I'm not I'm not overly concerned about it certainly we'd like to have it the right amount but I'm not overly concerned considering that the house next door is at 17 Close to 18 and some of the other houses are pretty close too so it's it's fairly consistent with some of the other homes in the neighborhood so I would be okay with it okay okay barer what do you think um it's it's a really tight neighborhood in there um but it is just an additional 3 ft so and Sean I do think it it's I believe it's a special permit request it's not an additional variance is it correct it's a special permit request yes so go ahead bar no that's all okay Tim um I'm Mutual uh I'll stay quiet for now well we'd like your opinion we're getting ready to take vote here your it's a little it is a little it is a little close U but again just going to go along with what they said it is um the neighborhood is tight and there are some some items that some houses that are closer or um so that's where is dick in on this one I'm not sure if I did hear everything uh and I would concur with j at all there that uh I don't think the 3et it's too much to ask it's going to be a nice looking house [Music] um and those are you know those are all reasonably large homes on very small lots and it's tough especially on a especially on a corner y okay okay um I I I tend to agree myself um I think if you are going to look down the street on the Sharon Road side which is where You' really look to see the most impact this would have the house just to the right of it is only set back 18 19 ft itself so it's almost going to line up with it so it's going to look in Conformity really with that street skate um they are only asking for a family room and a half bath I would want to put into this condition though that there'll be no future expansion well they can come back and ask for future expansion but it would be came back I would be very reluctant to Grant any more expansion of this particular piece of property given the setbacks that they're already violating because now we're giving them now permission to come into this front setback they have a side setback on the Denise lane side where they're only 8.74 ft off of that one there V to be 20 this zoning District so um there should be a note I think in the decision about uh a reluctance to uh approve any future expansion of this property but I do agree with the rest of the board I think it is a fairly reasonable request it is a small house and it is a small lot and they are on a corner and they're tough to navigate with setbacks as we all know uh and we have given relief to uh front setbacks on Co a lots previously so I do think it's a reasonable request and I plan on supporting it is there anybody who wishes to make a motion um I'd be happy to make a motion to approve it as requested but I I agree with the condition that you know any further expansion of the footprint think would be inappropriate um if they want to go up that's one thing but um and then it's a health department question I think but uh but um yeah I think as you said the footprint does already encroach on one side as it is this is given an extra but I would I would think that condition might be reasonable if it's makes sense is there a second to the motion I'll second it and seconds it yes any further discussion on the motion hearing none all those in favor please signify by saying I I I I that carries five in favor none against uh Steve as you're aware um once the decision is drafted it will be clocked with the town clerk 20 days then must elapse technical waiting period after that you can come into our office pick up your special permit take it over to the registry of deeds and record it and bring a copy back for our records you have any questions uh no none at all I just want to say thank you to the board we appreciate your consideration Sean go to the Kings Sean we need to with withdraw the variance without prejudice uh yes you've asked for variance relief in the alternative Steve yes yes we did we asked you request to uh withdraw that without prejudice request to withdraw without prejudice so move okay so mooved so move second to that motion second any discussion hearing none all those in favor please signify by saying I I I I any opposed hearing none the uh the request to withdraw the variance without peti without prejudice is granted thank you Steve have a nice night you very much have a great night thank you the Kings certainly appreciate this all right the next matter on our petition is petition number 5109 is continued from 5924 this is DC solar Inc and sunwell property location is 205 Old Main Street South GTH Mass it's in an IRS 40 zoning district and the applicant seeks a special permit for Section 31.2 Andor a variance from 31.4659 you modify the existing parking lot by removing in lot trees the construction of a 108 in by 1176 in stolar carport canopy over the rear parking lot is the petitioner present yes yes good evening could you identify yourself at the record place there Dan Clinton with DC solar um and before we go any further we have two people that are trying to sign in online um but they're not able to so okay yeah can you bring them up Lisa yeah U we're getting um Dave to take a look let them in okay you need them right now U to proceed uh no I don't think so okay why don't you uh which we have several people that are signed in but we don't know which ones are trying to yeah uh Tessa and I forget the gentleman's name they're both from sunwealth I'm not sure if it says that on can can you look at the list over there and um Randy Tessa and Randy Tessa and Randy Tessa Tessa and Randy it would be Charlie sorry about that was schol Charlie oh Charlie sorry that's okay he's trying okay right thanks folks okay we have everybody we need I think so okay why don't you go ahead and proceed and tell us about your petition um so we are trying to are we we applied for a permit to build um a solar canopy over the back parking lot of the church um it's about set back about 500 ft from the road um behind trees and to the side of the church at the back um it's uh about 500 solar panels covered parking lot the low Edge is going to be about 17 ft tall no I'm sorry 14 ft tall and the high Edge is about 22 ft um really no disturbance to the parking lot at all but the current plan um shows it covering the areas where there's trees in the medians um and so when we went to the planning board they said zoning would have to approve a special permit or a variance um the way it's you know drawn now so did you go to site plan review yes yeah and they directed us here so they directed you here correct did you go through full do we have a site plan review comments she no no so you didn't go through site plan review they just said you don't come to us and go is that correct we we went to a site plan review meeting um and they uh Dolores told me we need to fill out an application to come to this meeting to request either a variance or a special [Applause] permit normally what you do is you go to site plan review although maybe what you are what you have requested actually okay I did first off in my packet I don't know if anybody else missing this but I don't have the actual structures themselves the plan you submit those I don't either no we just have a we just have a we just have a yeah we just have the uh the layout the site plan I agree there's no uh nothing relevant to structures and how they look and no landscape plan um you know what trees are coming down are there any trees going up etc etc right now currently there's no change to the Landscaping there's four small shrub trees that would be impacted by it they potentially could remain um but one of the things we're going to want is a landscape plan well I I think we might want a little more than I also I also printed a full electrical set of drawings six copies full structural drawing six copies and hand delivered them here with the application to Dolores okay I also brought a set with me tonight so I'm looking okay well um all right so let me just take a look at your application because there's a few things going on with this particular petition now you're seeking a special permit under [Applause] commissioner um because we're seeking to make alterations to a parking lot is what yeah really the only relief that you're really looking for tonight is to take down as your petition asked is to remove trees in lot trees for the construction of this solar carport so it appears to me that the way it's worded is you're just asking to take down inlaw trees I'm not quite sure that you've asked for to construct um the wording of your request I'm going to now I think you need a special permit to construct the solar array as well is that what you were asking I I think that's what you were asking for um the reason I think this should go to site plan review is because there are a number of departments that may want to chime in on this for one you have this parking right here I'll take one is that's the fire department whether they can get their fire apparatus in them building department whether you conform to what would be what you're doing to the parking lot might trigger a full upgrade of the parking requirements under 301 uh which would require uh Paving uh your your in-law trees would be some of them we'd want to see drainage uh things of that nature the building department would tell us what if any building relief that you need did you go to any any other departments beside the zoning board of appeals before you came here I I want to be really clear about this where there was a scheduled plan review meeting that I attended uh Lisa was there as well there was the Building Commissioner the historic was there it was upstairs in the meeting room it was a scheduled meeting by this town I attended it myself we went before them we showed them all the drawings they said we really don't see anything wrong with it the fire commissioner was there as well he asked that it would be a certain height off the ground so the trucks could get underneath it this is all recorded at at the town right no I I understand now that's that's site plan review but there should be a document that's generated that we review for scrutinizing from from me or from your town oh I I'm I'm I'm certainly not blaming you right now if you tell me you went to site plan review I think we should have that in our packet but Sean also what I think we might want to do with this is we might want to continue this matter because I don't think we have enough in our packets do you have a lighting plan yes it's in the electrical drawings which we provided we don't have them I mean I have them all right here oh we can't but but Sean we we need to we need pictures of the structures how high fedback all that yeah hold on just a second Jack uh okay a like are you planning on any lights with this yes underneath the canopy there's um several lights um that are designed by the electrical engineer to illuminate the property and do you have a plan that shows none of those are going to encroach on others other properties it it doesn't specifically show the extent of the lighting you know how far it'll reach but I'm sure we could get that you're going to need it well what you're what you're talking about proposing to build here is a pretty substantial structure and we really don't have really any information on this at all um now this this may not be your fault all your fault or maybe none of it it's your fault um but I I don't think that we have enough information in front of us to consider this petition at least I don't I'd like to see actual layout of the uh I'd like to to see a picture of these solar panels I'd like to see the elevations I'd like to see uh where exactly they're going to be located how tall they are how wide they are I mean you have a drawing on this plan I see right here I presume it's your representation that it'll take up all of it is it a single structure or is it multiple structures one single structure one single structure it's called a long span so two rows of column supporting long top beams we definitely see that stuff I mean it's a little frustrating that the the material didn't get to you guys I mean it was hand delivered a month ago well let let me just look at something else [Applause] here l so they said that you need a uh a variance from [Music] 301.4c I I believe that was what they said at the time it's not right in front of me Sean aren't they going to also need a use change of some kind I mean it's more than just a parking lot now you know this is a uh this would be commercial/industrial structures which would be in a residential zoning District in my opinion I don't think you can do this by special permit I think you need a variance to construct these oh I agree I agree you haven't asked for that I think what I would recommend that you do is is first off is go back and find out if and it we'll do some investigating as well where or if there was a site plan review comment sheet that was generated relating to this petition because we really need something uh and secondly you know all the relief that you need here if if you read the history of this property right here we actually gave relief on this property to create this parking lot and not require them to uh bring it up to the zoning standards relative this should have been paid should had the should have had lighting should have had the in-law trees which I guess you had um there's no spaces that are delineated there's no drainage I mean back in 200 two um gave relief from the requirements to upgrade this Pro facility now that's not happening it's going to remain dirt or gravel and you want to put big solar array on top of it which me to me there's got to be more to this request and what we have in front of us right now Sean shouldn't there also be something from the church saying that they want this or agree well we're just going to presume that they they their representation is they sign the petition the church wants yeah we're going to go on that presumption right now we I don't know that we even have any we should have by the way some paperwork from the church authorizing you to construct this as well so you may want to go back to uh the church just asking for a document but it should be a full package um I will tell you that I do have some concerns about um allowing such structures commercial and Industrial in not only a residential district but what I considered to be in many be a historical district and whether the allowance of that would be keeping uh with the neighborhood it would not uh represent uh a substantial detriment to the neighborhood I think in my opinion it would I don't know how others feel on that and I'll let them chime in okay maybe we should take a poll of the board and see what the feeling is on this before you go forward but you're certainly entitled to do that but I think I would at the very very least like some uh further information on this so if you want to continue this matter I'd be more than happy to recommend to the board that we allow continuance I I would just recommend too that he just Sean that he meets with the Building Commissioner and try to go through this and the structures Etc find out what he needs i' I've met with him three times in this building so and and and it's the uh their determination that all you need is just so we can go back to the bylaws and try to clear up exactly what we're we're you know asking for here um at the plan review meeting they said it would need to go to zoning and we were asking for a special permit because it was going to affect the in- lot trees the parking lot currently is already has lighting and I think some drainage there was discussions about it not being paved and that potentially could be an issue here but but it's also a presidential Community I I'd be very uncomfortable with anything you have here I can tell you right now I couldn't support what you're asking for okay I say another I I I'm feeling the same way I mean we can pull the board right now to see what the feeling of the board is on your request for Relief here um briefly um I just wanted to know if Tessa or Charlie had anything to say I'm actually we're just the contractor that's going to build the structure so we actually who are these other folks folks they're the development company who actually has the interconnection agreement with eversource and has the communication with the church so we're we're just the permit you know applicant so I I'd like to hear from them before we poll or you know move on that's fine go ahead Tessa go ahead please identify yourself sure um my name is Tessa I'm a project developer for sunwell we own and operate projects like the one that we proposed at um St David's or 205 Old Main Street um on the suggestion around the continuance we'd be happy to gather more materials um you know kind of do some fact findinding and come back to the board for further discussion um but yeah I'll pause there Charlie would you like to introduce yourself sure hi folks thanks for having us my name is Charlie Gould I am sunw Well's general counsel um and uh I think the only thing I would like some clarity on kind of before we outline next steps uh with the board here is there there seems to be a little bit of confusion about who to go to First and and what to obtain and as Tessa mentioned we're more than happy to work with the board and and gather all information requested uh and provide what we you know humanly possible can um but before we go through that exercise it would be good to know um if we need another meeting with building um you know if we need that site plan review dock uh before we come back to the board um just mechanically uh and and from a a sequencing perspective uh it'd be great to have some some guidance and Clarity there so you know happy to answer any questions you know appreciate your consideration well I uh I I appreciate that as well um [Applause] I mean I I'm just looking at these sections of the Bible law and I'm just trying to figure out how special permit relief I mean it's it to me this just seems a little bit too simple that you're just coming here and saying we just want relief to remove the in lot trees we want a special permit you could be silent on the on your solar array that's all you're asking for now right you're what you're really asking for though is to construct a quite large solar array in a residential district is what you're asking for and so what we need to determine is whether that structure Andor use because it's a commercial or industrial use because all you're going to do is you're going to take the power and you're going to sell the power correct what are you going to do with the power yeah the power is going to be sold back to the church at a discount yeah are you going to sell the P this are you going to generate more power than the church needs uh Tessa might have a little more information on that um typically if there's any exporting it it's minimal we try to size these things so the church can get what they need get the discount um but uh Tessa do do you know if there's any exporting here and the percentage I can jump in um so this project is going to be config configured as a low-income Community solar project so what we proposed to the church is they would be um quote unquote anchor off taker so they'd be the main customer for the project buying a majority of the solar um that's coming from the site and then the other um 50% would be going to um low-income customers at a discount in the so you're going to so so the needs of the church represent 50% of what you're going to produce the other 50% will be sold off so what you're telling us is that you're going to be running a commercial power plant in a residential neighborhood is that fair to say it's going to community lowincome community well no I I appreciate what you're doing with it and I'm not trying to I'm not trying to be smart here but I mean I'm just trying to be realistic you know if you Dr off White's path I don't think we'd be having this discussion if you were doing this in a B3 or even a B2 zoning District but you're doing it in an IRS 40 district and what you want to do is you want to have a power plant where you want to produce enough power to sell back to the church at a discount or however you provide it to them and then you want to take the balance of it and you want to give it to others so you're actually running a business first off you're not in a business district you're in a residential district so it wouldn't matter if you were selling cotton candy okay it's a it's a commercial business secondly you're asking to construct uh structures that are not in keeping with the surrounding zoning district and I think one could easily make the argument that this would be represent nuisance Hazard or congestion I think that would certainly be substantially more detrimental and I I I I personally just don't see myself voting to approve this and that's why I wanted to pull the board before your group went back and started run around and get all this information now they it may be true what you're looking for his only purposes is just to take a few trees out we've had people come and ask for that but not to just say we're going to do that and Grant this relief and oh by the way we're going to put a big solar array up so um I would like to PLL the board to see if they're an agreement with uh what I've said Jay oh I'm complete agreement I think uh there's just a lot more to this than what's been submitted and requested so um I'm not comfortable with what been presented so far dick yeah I think it's a you know in incomplete application for starters um agreeing with you with what what's missing here there's usually other plans and other things that we can see that make some sense like we said the design of the building uh landscape plans driveway plans parking met drainage Etc which are not here uh but more important it's um the main problem here is I mean they're trying to build a structure which is huge over 100 by over 100 um a single structure which is going to be out of keeping with the residential character of that neighborhood and uh even uh uh even with some of the other things done I just don't think it's it it it's appropriate it's going to show up and uh other people will be able to view it and see it and it's uh you know we don't know how it's going to look but I have a feeling it won't look too good and uh so I've got some sever issues with it okay barara um I agree completely with the comments um that both Jay and um dick um have spoken about so I I I don't think there's enough information here at all but um I don't I just don't think I'd like the look of it either Tim I'm in agreement with the rest of the board I I would think no no go ahead finish your thought yeah I mean I I think some of the concerns might be um alleviated with with the additional documentation that it sounds like it didn't make it to everyone um you know including photo phot um and um and pictures of the structure you know at least proposed to be built structure right um I think uh it seems like the the board is is significantly concerned with the the appearance of it and and how it look within the neighborhood um you know it's my understanding that this is going to be completely covered by trees and and practically um invisible to the the streets and the other Lots um but again I think uh you know were we to pursue this it would be um very helpful uh if you could provide some guidance on next steps so we can evaluate uh what to do um which would make sense sequentially right um on one hand as you mentioned uh Mr eore uh we were simply coming before the board tonight because we were under the impression that all we needed was um a variance to take down four rather small shrubs trees um but it sounds like that's not the case uh so you know again maybe if you could provide a little bit of guidance on on the next steps and what departments to hit first we can better evaluate um how to proceed [Music] well I think the guidance that the board is giving you I won't speak for all but if this board were to take a vote tonight you would need at least four out of five to be successful you've already heard at least two of us and I would probably venture to guess more that are not in support of these solar arrays being placed in a residential neighborhood so if you want to go back I would suggest that you go back to the Building Commissioner and ask him EX exactly what you need for Relief to come before this board and then put a full packet together including pictures and diagrams uh and elevations including plot plans where all of this is going to be located including any Transformers that you need on site where they're going to be located all right and you can come back and we'll give you another date but um I would suggest that I don't think you're going to be successful when you come back but if you wish to do that I would say go back to the building department because we don't walk people through how to get their how to fill out their applications that's not our department we look at requests for zoning relief we apply the bylaw and then we take a vote whether you meet the criteria for special permit whether you meet the criteria for varant that's what we decide other than that we don't give out you know in we don't give out instruction on how to apply for these things so you really need to go back to the building department and uh see what they have to say and then if you'd like we'll schedule you for another hearing if not we would also allow you to withdraw your application without prejudice tonight understood uh appreciate uh appreciate the thoughts and uh the opportunity here tonight um I'll defer to my colleague on the matter of do we just pick another date um or do we withdraw with without prejudice um uh joh if if we were to pick another date could we pick one in you know not the next meeting but several meetings out to allow us to evaluate a little further based on what we've heard today or would it have to be the very next meeting no it it probably wouldn't be the very next meeting you need to sign an extension agreement I think would be good for a 100 days but we would schedule you within that time frame we don't mind doing that if that's your choice I mean it is true you came here tonight you don't have a complete packet but I I don't think you should be under an illusion that by giving us a full packet it's going to somehow change the board at least not two out of the five I don't want to speak for the other three but there there's two of us that are not going to vote for this petition and I don't know how the other three feel if they want to give more guidance to you as to whether they would support it or not kind of an agreement with you sorry I can um I can say that I think I think we'll go back to the Building Commissioner um clarify what next steps are um you know we were told one thing and so just clarify what is the reality of um progress um and then at that time I think we'll make a decision okay so why don't we do this uh Lisa yes let's give them another date what do we have in [Music] uh see how much how much time do they think they want Sean do they want 30 days 60 days how much well what what Lisa what do we have for meetings in June um there's one slot available on June 13th and there's after that after that on the the 27th there's only one application so far how about June 27 is that okay with you guys yeah that'd be fine thank you that's give us enough time to fully evaluate okay all right why don't we do uh why don't we do June 27th for the next meeting we'll continue it until then we'll need uh I believe his name is Dan we're going to need him to sign a uh an extension agreement Lisa's got one of those you can just uh you can sign that and then you can uh go do your due diligence and we'll see you back here on that date sounds good appreciate we uh before you go do we have a uh a motion by one of the board members for to continue this matter I'll make I'll make a motion to continue this to the June 27th m meeting I'll second second second I'll second okay we got a second any discussion hearing none all those in favor please signify by saying I I any opposed hearing none we'll see you back here on June 27th please don't forget to sign that extension agreement before you leave okay thank you thank you very much for your time good night now thank you folks all right um Sean I'd like to make a motion to approve the minutes from April 25th have a second to that second all those in favor any discussion on the minutes hearing none all those in favor please signify by saying I I any opposed those minutes are uh approved any other business hearing none we have a motion to adjourn motion to adjourn okay we have a second to that second do we need to have any discussion on this hearing none okay that that is uh that we that is allowed or approved okay I just like to apologize to the board for that's okay dick those technical glitches they're tough online trust me I know supposed set and